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    Default A Bit Of Venting

    So, I'm on Tinder and OK Cupid and... No, that's actually it.

    Oftentimes, the ladies will have their SnapChat on their profile, so I'll add them.

    This is about one lady I added quite a while ago, and I was just looking at my SnapChat stories and saw her post something along the lines of "Men suck at replying when texting." (The exact words are not forum appropriate, so paraphrased.)

    I sent her a message saying "You're not really that good at replying either."

    Her response? "Well I don't know you."

    And me: "That's because you never responded when I texted you!"

    There was a little more back and forth, and suffice to say, I doubt I'll be texting her again. But for some reason, this is really bothering me-I know, stupid thing to get got by. She's someone I barely know who obviously doesn't care enough to get to know me. But it just stung a little.

    Anyway, thanks for taking the time to read this. Feel free to vent your own stuff, if you want, and thanks in advance for any sympathy/advice.
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    Default Re: A Bit Of Venting

    Quote Originally Posted by JNAProductions View Post
    So, I'm on Tinder and OK Cupid and... No, that's actually it.

    Oftentimes, the ladies will have their SnapChat on their profile, so I'll add them.

    This is about one lady I added quite a while ago, and I was just looking at my SnapChat stories and saw her post something along the lines of "Men suck at replying when texting." (The exact words are not forum appropriate, so paraphrased.)

    I sent her a message saying "You're not really that good at replying either."

    Her response? "Well I don't know you."

    And me: "That's because you never responded when I texted you!"

    There was a little more back and forth, and suffice to say, I doubt I'll be texting her again. But for some reason, this is really bothering me-I know, stupid thing to get got by. She's someone I barely know who obviously doesn't care enough to get to know me. But it just stung a little.

    Anyway, thanks for taking the time to read this. Feel free to vent your own stuff, if you want, and thanks in advance for any sympathy/advice.

    IMX the average guy who routinely covers himself in honey and plays soccer with wasp nests can expect to be stung less than if he does online dating.

    Just a fact of life.
    Between the skew in supply and demand, fake profiles, profile creation guides for losers, Photoshop, scammers, and normal everyday lying, online dating makes it much more difficult to sort between wheat and chaff than it is in person. I did Tinder for a year after a divorce, and I got more dates in real life without trying than I got while trying on Tinder. Furthermore, all the Tinder dates except one were bad. My favorite has got to be the one who presented me with an "investment opportunity" with a Cypriotic bank after 10 minutes of small talk and half a glass of wine. I still wonder if that might not have been a particular sophisticated example of sugardating rather than just a normal scam.
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    Default Re: A Bit Of Venting

    Quote Originally Posted by Misereor View Post
    IMX the average guy who routinely covers himself in honey and plays soccer with wasp nests can expect to be stung less than if he does online dating.

    Just a fact of life.
    Between the skew in supply and demand, fake profiles, profile creation guides for losers, Photoshop, scammers, and normal everyday lying, online dating makes it much more difficult to sort between wheat and chaff than it is in person. I did Tinder for a year after a divorce, and I got more dates in real life without trying than I got while trying on Tinder. Furthermore, all the Tinder dates except one were bad. My favorite has got to be the one who presented me with an "investment opportunity" with a Cypriotic bank after 10 minutes of small talk and half a glass of wine. I still wonder if that might not have been a particular sophisticated example of sugardating rather than just a normal scam.
    How much did you talk to the Tinder dates before setting up the actual date?
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    Default Re: A Bit Of Venting

    Quote Originally Posted by JNAProductions View Post
    So, I'm on Tinder and OK Cupid and... No, that's actually it.

    Oftentimes, the ladies will have their SnapChat on their profile, so I'll add them.

    This is about one lady I added quite a while ago, and I was just looking at my SnapChat stories and saw her post something along the lines of "Men suck at replying when texting." (The exact words are not forum appropriate, so paraphrased.)

    I sent her a message saying "You're not really that good at replying either."

    Her response? "Well I don't know you."

    And me: "That's because you never responded when I texted you!"

    There was a little more back and forth, and suffice to say, I doubt I'll be texting her again. But for some reason, this is really bothering me-I know, stupid thing to get got by. She's someone I barely know who obviously doesn't care enough to get to know me. But it just stung a little.

    Anyway, thanks for taking the time to read this. Feel free to vent your own stuff, if you want, and thanks in advance for any sympathy/advice.
    I can relate, but my understanding is that this is pretty much on par with many other people's experience. I had similar experiences, people that would give one or two replies and then disappear; with one of them, we even had one or two calls, so it wasn't just confined to the cold world of virtual chatting, but all of a sudden she ghosted me, just disappeared, stopped replying to messages, stopped answering to the phone. It stings, yeah, but it's like this.

    I read a lot of advice as to how to garner some kind of better results: I found a lot of suggestions on how to pick the best profile pictures, but in the end it requires a lot of effort to find the perfect pic, and at the end of the day I just gave up.
    Last edited by Cicciograna; 2019-06-06 at 09:20 AM.

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    Default Re: A Bit Of Venting

    Yeah, I'm not suggesting I'm unique in this situation or anything. Just wanted to grumble to other people.
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    Default Re: A Bit Of Venting

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    How much did you talk to the Tinder dates before setting up the actual date?
    1-2 days to set up the date, and then from several times a day to every second day or so, depending on the vibe, until the date took place, which would usually be 1-3 weekends away. Quite a few dates would be cancelled during that time. Either through lack of chemistry or simple ghosting.

    I don't how how other people do it, but I got the impression I was a bit more pushy than some guys. Maybe that was why I didn't have more success. I simply didn't have the patience for weeks of texting back and forth, especially on a platform like Tinder where half the profiles turn out to be scammers of one sort or another. I can't count the number of profiles who would ask people to contact them on other social media (low-tech way of juggling many profiles), ask your opinion on a website (duh!), ask for travel money, or outright offer "services". The long cons were definetely the most aggravating, and I can see how some guys might be desperate enough to give some of the setups a chance (the banking investment one definitely took me by surprise).

    </grumble>
    Last edited by Misereor; 2019-06-07 at 04:12 AM.
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    Default Re: A Bit Of Venting

    It's been awhile since I put much of any effort into OKCupid and I've never used Tinder, but from what I remember you can do everything "right" (very good profile pics, write a thoughtful bio, answer a lot of match questions, and send a message that shows you read their bio and are interested in them for more than their pics) and you will get a response maybe one time in five. And then out of those, maybe half at most will lead to a first date.

    That's just how it is with online dating. I wouldn't mess with it at all except that I am horribly uncomfortable asking people out in person.
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    Default Re: A Bit Of Venting

    OK Cupid has released some stats on online dating, and it basically sucks for everyone. Men need to send out over 100 messages per date they see in person, women receive thousands of messages and get harassed constantly (inappropriate pictures and messages are ubiquitous.)

    My girlfriend defends the ghosting thing as being defensive, lots of men send insulting or frightening messages when turned down so women take to simply ending the conversation and blocking them as a reflex. I'm not saying it is right, I'm just saying that online dating combines all the worst traits of the Internet and pickup culture.
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    Default Re: A Bit Of Venting

    Well, if it makes you feel any better, the guy I drunkenly gave my phone number to in a bar last weekend did not, in fact, call me this weekend like he said he would. Upon even slightly sober reflection, that was probably for the best.

    Also, my mother makes a terrible wingman.

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    Default Re: A Bit Of Venting

    Quote Originally Posted by Tvtyrant View Post
    OK Cupid has released some stats on online dating, and it basically sucks for everyone. Men need to send out over 100 messages per date they see in person, women receive thousands of messages and get harassed constantly (inappropriate pictures and messages are ubiquitous.)
    Yup. Men will never understand that women trying to date are like somebody drowning in an ocean. Women will never understand that men trying to date are like somebody dying of thirst in a desert.

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    Default Re: A Bit Of Venting

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay R View Post
    Yup. Men will never understand that women trying to date are like somebody drowning in an ocean. Women will never understand that men trying to date are like somebody dying of thirst in a desert.
    That metaphor is more fitting than you probably realize: There's preciously little drinkable water in that ocean.

    @JNA: Well, she is right, she doesn't know you. A man's selection process is which women he messages, a woman's selection process is which men she messages back. From her point of view, her obligation to answer your messages only starts after she has indicated that she wants to get to know you. Which she had not done.

    It is possible that she was complaining about men not messaging her back after she actually went to the effort of contacting them first, but from my experience with online dating it is highly unlikely she'd experience that enough to complain about it. She was probably talking about men she had messaged back and forth with for quite a while and did, therefore, actually know.

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    Default Re: A Bit Of Venting

    Quote Originally Posted by Tvtyrant View Post
    My girlfriend defends the ghosting thing as being defensive, lots of men send insulting or frightening messages when turned down so women take to simply ending the conversation and blocking them as a reflex. I'm not saying it is right, I'm just saying that online dating combines all the worst traits of the Internet and pickup culture.
    I'm kinda in agreement with your girlfriend here. Yeah, it ain't polite or nice, but when refusal gets met with very nasty threats...You're going to ghost after a few reposes of assault regardless of your gender or how polite you normally are.

    I bet I could make a dating profile of a woman who claimed to hate puppies and wanted the man to pay for the first date and still get enough inappropriate pictures to open my own adult website. Unfortunately, the flood of pictures of particular body parts is probably making ladies on those sites really more inclined to bolt defensively.

    Quote Originally Posted by Velaryon View Post
    It's been awhile since I put much of any effort into OKCupid and I've never used Tinder, but from what I remember you can do everything "right" (very good profile pics, write a thoughtful bio, answer a lot of match questions, and send a message that shows you read their bio and are interested in them for more than their pics) and you will get a response maybe one time in five. And then out of those, maybe half at most will lead to a first date.

    That's just how it is with online dating. I wouldn't mess with it at all except that I am horribly uncomfortable asking people out in person.
    FIND NERD WOMEN. They are just as scared as you are of them. I really cannot stress this enough, a polite inquiry will indicate a certain amount of confidence...And women today are probably still worried that being forward will turn a guy off. If you can find a way to muster up the confidence, DO IT.
    Last edited by Honest Tiefling; 2019-06-19 at 06:37 PM.
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    Default Re: A Bit Of Venting

    Quote Originally Posted by Honest Tiefling View Post
    I'm kinda in agreement with your girlfriend here. Yeah, it ain't polite or nice, but when refusal gets met with very nasty threats...You're going to ghost after a few reposes of assault regardless of your gender or how polite you normally are.

    I bet I could make a dating profile of a woman who claimed to hate puppies and wanted the man to pay for the first date and still get enough inappropriate pictures to open my own adult website. Unfortunately, the flood of pictures of particular body parts is probably making ladies on those sites really more inclined to bolt defensively.



    FIND NERD WOMEN. They are just as scared as you are of them. I really cannot stress this enough, a polite inquiry will indicate a certain amount of confidence...And women today are probably still worried that being forward will turn a guy off. If you can find a way to muster up the confidence, DO IT.
    This is a 👮 out. You could easily send the explanation and then block them if you don't want to see the response. The result for you is the same but at least you aren't leaving someone in the lurch.
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    Default Re: A Bit Of Venting

    Quote Originally Posted by Tvtyrant View Post
    This is a 👮 out. You could easily send the explanation and then block them if you don't want to see the response. The result for you is the same but at least you aren't leaving someone in the lurch.
    Would you want to waste the effort and time on someone who will potentially send you death and rape threats? Again, it is quite rude, but given the volume, nastiness and...Unwanted body parts, are you really expecting much else?
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    Default Re: A Bit Of Venting

    Quote Originally Posted by Tvtyrant View Post
    This is a 👮 out. You could easily send the explanation and then block them if you don't want to see the response. The result for you is the same but at least you aren't leaving someone in the lurch.
    And then the blocked person makes a new account to do the same thing they'd do anyway. So, the result is indeed the same except the girl had to put even more effort into getting the same outcome.

    Im 100% with Honest Tiefling and your girlfriend. Yeah, it sucks for the guy, but it sucks for the girl harder.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    And then the blocked person makes a new account to do the same thing they'd do anyway. So, the result is indeed the same except the girl had to put even more effort into getting the same outcome.

    Im 100% with Honest Tiefling and your girlfriend. Yeah, it sucks for the guy, but it sucks for the girl harder.
    The argument that we should all accept living in a pit because we are in one now is a terrible argument. Yes men need to do better, and dating sites need to do more to shame or punish bad members. No that doesn't excuse people in digging the pit deeper themselves, especially where it doesn't actually help them. Ignoring someone is just going to get the same messages from the abusive people, you only hurt the people who are legitimately trying.

    Quote Originally Posted by Honest Tiefling View Post
    Would you want to waste the effort and time on someone who will potentially send you death and rape threats? Again, it is quite rude, but given the volume, nastiness and...Unwanted body parts, are you really expecting much else?
    See my points above. I don't know how to make a better dating service because all of the systems are pretty easy to game, but giving people a pass because the system is already bad isn't a good answer.

    Edit: Assuming men can post first anyway. The opposite system seems better in theory; Coffee Meets Bagel is a lot more chill then OKCupid for instance.

    Edit 2: So we don't argue past each other, this conversation is specifically in the context of already having an ongoing conversation and just dropping out. I will add the caveat because it might not be obvious that any harassment already precludes the necessity of ending the conversation.
    Last edited by Tvtyrant; 2019-06-19 at 09:24 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tvtyrant View Post
    The argument that we should all accept living in a pit because we are in one now is a terrible argument. Yes men need to do better, and dating sites need to do more to shame or punish bad members. No that doesn't excuse people in digging the pit deeper themselves, especially where it doesn't actually help them. Ignoring someone is just going to get the same messages from the abusive people, you only hurt the people who are legitimately trying.
    I never said it wasn't rude, but understandable. Because you can't expect people who are getting abused heaped onto them to be the ones to change is just an unreasonable expectation of people and their behavior. Yeah, it sucks for honest dudes being polite, but it just doesn't hurt them. It's emotionally draining for people to be under this sort of pressure and to wonder if they are legitimately threatened if their personal information was exchanged or otherwise available. If ghosting is going to make them feel safer or better, they WILL do it. If they think they'll be less harassed if they ghost, what are you going to expect?

    As a very intelligent dragon put it, it sucks for the dude, but it sucks harder for the girl. Not a polite thing, but a thing that will happen and one that requires a lot more fixing than asking people not to ghost.

    Quote Originally Posted by JNAProductions View Post
    This is about one lady I added quite a while ago, and I was just looking at my SnapChat stories and saw her post something along the lines of "Men suck at replying when texting." (The exact words are not forum appropriate, so paraphrased.)
    Through back to the original topic, if someone has 'Men are [x]' in their profile, they probably have a 99% chance of being crazy. You haven't lost anything by not getting a response from that one. You can do better.
    Last edited by Honest Tiefling; 2019-06-19 at 09:30 PM.
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    Default Re: A Bit Of Venting

    It wasn't in her profile, it was in her snapchat story.

    And yeah-I dunno why this specific instance got to me. Maybe because it was one in several instances (though usually I get "Hey, can I see what you look like?" I send a face pic, and they delete me) but it's just that damn catch-22. I dunno.

    I'm very much over it by now. But thanks again, everyone, for offering words of support and advice!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Honest Tiefling View Post
    I never said it wasn't rude, but understandable. Because you can't expect people who are getting abused heaped onto them to be the ones to change is just an unreasonable expectation of people and their behavior. Yeah, it sucks for honest dudes being polite, but it just doesn't hurt them. It's emotionally draining for people to be under this sort of pressure and to wonder if they are legitimately threatened if their personal information was exchanged or otherwise available. If ghosting is going to make them feel safer or better, they WILL do it. If they think they'll be less harassed if they ghost, what are you going to expect?

    As a very intelligent dragon put it, it sucks for the dude, but it sucks harder for the girl. Not a polite thing, but a thing that will happen and one that requires a lot more fixing than asking people not to ghost.
    Sure, as I said I agree there are other and worse problems. That does not in fact make it right or okay, which is exactly the point you are defending. Honest dudes are going to be the ones stung by that behavior, and the morass of others are the ones who are inured to caring. It is a choice that actively contributes to making online dating worse.

    If we want to talk about fixing the other side, the best solutions I have seen are pay barriers for men and only allowing the women to post first. I think both of those are decent solutions, anything free is inherently problematic because there is no barrier to entry and the harassment is kept down by not allowing the mass sending of messages.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tvtyrant View Post
    Honest dudes are going to be the ones stung by that behavior
    Story of the world right there.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tvtyrant View Post
    Sure, as I said I agree there are other and worse problems. That does not in fact make it right or okay, which is exactly the point you are defending. Honest dudes are going to be the ones stung by that behavior, and the morass of others are the ones who are inured to caring. It is a choice that actively contributes to making online dating worse.
    I think I see your point, but I think of it as how I would react if a woman I cared about was in that situation. I sure as **** could not bring myself to encourage her to keep responding because I could not make myself responsible for her getting harassed. I just couldn't. My responses are probably quite emotional because of that, not going to lie. But does it make online dating worse? Probably, if it discourages actually nice guys from contacting women.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tvtyrant View Post
    If we want to talk about fixing the other side, the best solutions I have seen are pay barriers for men and only allowing the women to post first. I think both of those are decent solutions, anything free is inherently problematic because there is no barrier to entry and the harassment is kept down by not allowing the mass sending of messages.
    I'm going to sound horribly sexist, but I think many women like having the dude take the first step, either as a show of confidence or because they're pretty dang shy. Might just be my own experiences. But yeah, seems like something needs to change, and quickly.

    Quote Originally Posted by JNAProductions View Post
    It wasn't in her profile, it was in her snapchat story.
    Maybe I am not hip to technology, but that doesn't make me think she's any better than before.

    Quote Originally Posted by JNAProductions View Post
    I'm very much over it by now. But thanks again, everyone, for offering words of support and advice!
    And I hope you have good luck with future attempts. You seem like a decent guy.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Honest Tiefling View Post
    And I hope you have good luck with future attempts. You seem like a decent guy.
    Thank you.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Story of the world right there.
    :( We probably wouldn't need armies otherwise.

    Quote Originally Posted by Honest Tiefling View Post
    I think I see your point, but I think of it as how I would react if a woman I cared about was in that situation. I sure as **** could not bring myself to encourage her to keep responding because I could not make myself responsible for her getting harassed. I just couldn't. My responses are probably quite emotional because of that, not going to lie. But does it make online dating worse? Probably, if it discourages actually nice guys from contacting women.

    I'm going to sound horribly sexist, but I think many women like having the dude take the first step, either as a show of confidence or because they're pretty dang shy. Might just be my own experiences. But yeah, seems like something needs to change, and quickly.
    I see your points on both of those. I think running it like a nightclub (men pay to keep them out, women are free to keep them going) seems like a winning strategy if a seemingly unfair one.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JNAProductions View Post
    ... usually I get "Hey, can I see what you look like?" I send a face pic, and they delete me)
    Maybe Im misreading but this implies you dont have a picture of your face on your dating profile. Thatís definitely going to be at least part of the reason youíre not getting replies.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chen View Post
    Maybe Im misreading but this implies you dont have a picture of your face on your dating profile. Thatís definitely going to be at least part of the reason youíre not getting replies.
    I can see why you'd think that, with what I wrote. No, this is when I add people from their contact info on their bio (on Tinder or OK Cupid or whatever) so we haven't matched yet.

    My dating profiles have my face on them.
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    Dragon in the Playground Moderator
     
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    Default Re: A Bit Of Venting

    Isn't the point of matching to effectively pre-approve so the conversation can be started without ghosting? So if you go around that, it's defeating the purpose and likely leading to more noticeable rejection? (keep in mind, this is also directed at the people who put their contact info up for that purpose as well)

    Or am I just out of touch with how Tinder is supposed to work?
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    Orc in the Playground
     
    WolfInSheepsClothing

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    Default Re: A Bit Of Venting

    Apparently they did a study that found that when women measure men by looks on a scale of 1-10 that only 20% of men are rated 6-10.

    Seriously I bet I would have dated 2/3 girls in high school/college if the only thing I had to go on was looks. This would likely mean that I consider 66% of women to be in the ~6-10 range.

    They also did a study that women are attracted to different types of men at different times of the month. So asking a girl out may be possible this week, but not be possible two-weeks from now.

    Men (sample size me) rating ~66% of women ~6-10 versus women (much larger sample size) rating 20% of men 6-10 is a CRAZY HUGE difference. Men have a rougher go-at-it then women.

    Biology screws with dating. Men are a lot less picky and/or their is less variation in woman.
    Last edited by darkrose50; 2019-06-20 at 10:34 AM.

  28. - Top - End - #28
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    Default Re: A Bit Of Venting

    Quote Originally Posted by Tvtyrant View Post
    I see your points on both of those. I think running it like a nightclub (men pay to keep them out, women are free to keep them going) seems like a winning strategy if a seemingly unfair one.
    I've never been a woman on a paid dating site, so I really have no evidence anecdotal or otherwise to back this up, but I feel like those pay-to-play dating sites have just as much harassment and sending of inappropriate pictures as the free ones. The attitudes that lead to those things aren't unique to online dating, after all. Getting rid of them is probably going to require a broader cultural change to excise this weirdly entrenched element of society that gets many fellas thinking the appropriate response to rejection is lashing out.

    I also feel like there's a sizable percentage of people who ghost who do it not to avoid harassment but simply because they don't want to deal with the awkwardness of having the 'let's go our separate ways' conversation.

    Quote Originally Posted by darkrose50 View Post
    Apparently they did a study that found that when women measure men by looks on a scale of 1-10 that only 20% of men are rated 6-10.

    Seriously I bet I would have dated 2/3 girls in high school/college if the only thing I had to go on was looks. This would likely mean that I consider 66% of women to be in the ~6-10 range.

    They also did a study that women are attracted to different types of men at different times of the month. So asking a girl out may be possible this week, but not be possible two-weeks from now. Biology screws with dating. Men are a lot less picky and/or their is less variation in woman.

    Men (sample size me) rating ~66% of women ~6-10 versus women (much larger sample size) rating 20% of men 6-10 is a CRAZY HUGE difference. Men have a rougher go-at-it then women.
    Eh, I wouldn't take 'a study' as gospel. Tying things like dating preferences to 'biology' leads to some murky territory.
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  29. - Top - End - #29
    Orc in the Playground
     
    WolfInSheepsClothing

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    Default Re: A Bit Of Venting

    Quote Originally Posted by Comrade View Post
    Eh, I wouldn't take 'a study' as gospel. Tying things like dating preferences to 'biology' leads to some murky territory.
    Well courtship is almost all about biology. Sure we want friends, and we want our partners to be friends, but we want our partners to be more-than friends . . . we want biological friends to do biological things with.

    Biology is extremely important in dating. We use pheromone receptors to see if someone has a compatible immune system. We use symmetry (appearance) as a primitive test of health. Heck pass those two points and then you are almost there.

    Most men just have a harder time dating then most women. Biology just has got to be a major contributing factor, if not the largest contributing factor.

    -----

    I agree, date some nerd girls!
    Last edited by darkrose50; 2019-06-20 at 11:00 AM.

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    Default Re: A Bit Of Venting

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Isn't the point of matching to effectively pre-approve so the conversation can be started without ghosting? So if you go around that, it's defeating the purpose and likely leading to more noticeable rejection? (keep in mind, this is also directed at the people who put their contact info up for that purpose as well)

    Or am I just out of touch with how Tinder is supposed to work?
    Well, considering I've been ghosted by matches too...

    But it does kinda sting when someone deletes me the moment they see my face. It makes sense-it just hurts.
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