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    Default Help Me Choose A Car? - Australia

    I just got a new job way out in the PROPER outback, and have to get a car for it, and I have no idea what the hell I'm doing. My friends and family are giving me advice, but it's often conflicting, sometimes seems like they're not listening to me, and I'm just left feeling utterly overwhelmed. Like, bursting into tears at work over this overwhelmed.
    So I thought I'd see if trust ol' Playground can be of any more help. What should I get?

    My specifications:
    - Second hand
    - Budget: As little as possible. Ideally just a couple thousand, maybe as high as $10,000 if I absolutely have to? But that'll really hurt and I don' wanna. I'm looking around the $5000-7000 mark, but less would be great and more I can do if I absolutely have to.
    - Small (i don't have great spatial awareness nor astounding confidence in ny driving skills, so I'd be more comfortable in something smaller)
    - SUV? That's what I've been looking at so far, because it is way outback, dirt roads abound, and the area fluctuates between dust and flood. But now people are being like "pfft, the main roads are paved you don't need a 4WD, just get something else" and now I don't freaking know.
    - Automatic
    - Simple, easy, reliable (I don't know the first thing about car maintenance, so as little as possible would be nice)
    - Air con
    - Four door (I hate climbing over the front seat and refuse to make any passengers of mine do it)
    - High fuel efficiency would be nice.

    So far the most consistent thing is people recommending the RAV4, but it looks so big :/ I guess a big car would be useful for carrying all my crap there and back again, but I'm just not comfortable with driving around a town or city in a big 4WD. Some models look a little smaller and more manageable, but I'm finding it damn near impossible to find some sort of list with pictures to help me figure out which specific models they are, and whether they're the ones I could afford.

    The ones I've found on my own that I like the look of are Suzuki SX4 and Nissan Dualis, but no one has had much to say about them. I've also liked the look of Holden Cruze and Suzuki Swift, but feedback on those is not so good.

    Other advice I've gotten so far includes:
    - Get a big common brand, like Toyota or Nissan or Mitsubishi, because parts and service will be easier to find
    - BUT Suzukis are good too, because although parts are harder to find, they last longer
    - A high undercarriage or whatever it's called would be good, especially if I end up with a 2WD

    Help?
    Last edited by Serpentine; 2019-03-03 at 09:40 PM.

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    Default Re: Help Me Choose A Car? - Australia

    Older Rav 4's are smaller. They redesigned the model a few years back and it got bigger. But like a lot of SUVs they look a bit bigger because they are taller, but are not longer or wider than ordinary cars. An alternative would be to get a Subaru Impreza or something similar (some Cruze models and newer Swifts are 4wd), which is still 4wd, but is car shaped - the downside is that they do not have high undercarriage. Where i am from, there is sometimes rough terrain and Subaru Legacy's are very popular (they are like Impreza's but one size up).

    It would be useful to know what sort of off-road driving you are planning to do. A 2WD will do most dirt roads when they are dry, but a 4WD would be useful if it is a little muddy. When the roads are flooded (as in there being more than a few centimetres of surface water) you would probably want a proper offroad vehicle with the high undercarriage you mention (so a Rav4 at least, not the SX4, Dualis or Cruze), but I suggest that if you are an inexperienced driver you might want to stay home if there's flooding.

    Ultimately I think you might be best with a Impreza or other 4WD car (so not SUV). I think Imprezas are the best (particularly in terms of their 4WD ability) but the others will probably be cheaper to buy and cheaper to service.

    If you decide you don't need 4WD, you wont go wrong with a Toyota Corolla, which are probably the best small-medium cars in the word and have been for some time.

    In terms of brand (and reliability) I think that Toyota, Honda and Mazda are top of the pile, with Holden, Suzuki, Ford, Nissan, Hyundai, Kia next, with Mitsubishi being a lower quality brand.

    Edit:
    In terms of your other requirements almost all cars have automatic models (on the contrary lots of modern cars don't have manual variants) and most modern cars will have air-con. In terms of fuel efficiency, that is largely a trade-off for engine size - if you are travelling long distance you may not want to go below 1.3-1.6 litres because you will want to be travelling 100km plus for long periods.
    Last edited by Liquor Box; 2019-03-03 at 10:16 PM.

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    Default Re: Help Me Choose A Car? - Australia

    Quote Originally Posted by Serpentine View Post
    - Automatic
    - Air con
    - Four door... passengers
    How important are those?
    Last edited by Peelee; 2019-03-03 at 11:05 PM.
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    Default Re: Help Me Choose A Car? - Australia

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    How important are those?
    Vital.

    Re distance driving, the place I'm going is a ~15 hour drive, excluding breaks, from where I am now, and ~1.5-2 hours from the nearest decent size town.
    I wouldn't be, like, going up mountains or down riverbeds. But possibly rough, sandy, rocky roadsides and unpaved outback roads (it'd be nice if I could take advantage of my first proper car ownership to do a bit of exploring).
    The area is regularly flooded out, but I think I'll be there at a usually drier time of year.

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    Default Re: Help Me Choose A Car? - Australia

    Quote Originally Posted by Serpentine View Post
    Vital.

    Re distance driving, the place I'm going is a ~15 hour drive, excluding breaks, from where I am now, and ~1.5-2 hours from the nearest decent size town.
    I wouldn't be, like, going up mountains or down riverbeds. But possibly rough, sandy, rocky roadsides and unpaved outback roads (it'd be nice if I could take advantage of my first proper car ownership to do a bit of exploring).
    The area is regularly flooded out, but I think I'll be there at a usually drier time of year.
    I think wither an AWD car or an SUV would be ok. I still recommend the Subaru Impreza if you prefer a car and the RAV4 if you prefer the SUV but there are lots of similar options.

    The advantages of the Rav4 (and similar) is that it is higher meaning better visibility, safer in a crash with another car (for you, not for them), better off road performance. RAV4s (and Toyota's generally) are known for their reliability and it will probably have lower maintenance costs than the Impreza. I think that you are overestimating the difficulty you will have driving a RAV4 - it is not that large, and i think you'll get used to it quickly.

    The advantage of the Impreza (and similar) is that it is a car, meaning it will be mire nimble around town or tight windy roads and easier to park and will have better fuel economy.

    Both cars come with air-conditioning (maybe works a bit better on the Impreza with its smaller internal space), automatic gear box and four doors. I checked auto-trader Australia, and saw plenty of examples of both in your price range. I suggest that km travelled is perhaps the most important consideration in comparing different particular cars.

    Any specific questions.
    Last edited by Liquor Box; 2019-03-04 at 12:24 AM.

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    Default Re: Help Me Choose A Car? - Australia

    I have a 2017 Toyota Rav 4 (but am in the US, so not sure how different the model is from country to country) and would be happy to answer questions about it if there's something specific you'd like an opinion on.

    My previous cars were a 1984 Toyota Camry and a 1984 Toyota minivan (depending on the driving task and, near the end there, which one was less broken at the time), so it's been an adjustment for me. I feel like I still don't entirely know where the edges of my SUV are, but a lot of that is that I drove my previous cars for so long that my "how to drive a car skill" was a lot more of a "how to drive these two particular cars" skill. It's getting better with time.

    Toyotas basically last forever. Both of the old 1984 Toyotas at this point are not being driven because something has gone wrong that requires taking the dashboard apart to troubleshoot, which is a big enough hassle that I haven't felt like doing it myself and it's not sensible to pay someone else to do it. They both still actually run, one just doesn't have a functional fan/defroster and the other has headlights that only turn on when they feel like it. (So both are technically fine if I need to go somewhere during daylight in nice weather, but...)

    I have never been to Australia and have no particular opinions on what kind of car would best suit your needs.

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    Default Re: Help Me Choose A Car? - Australia

    Quote Originally Posted by Liquor Box View Post
    But like a lot of SUVs they look a bit bigger because they are taller, but are not longer or wider than ordinary cars.
    Yeah, this is the most critical thing to remember--in fact, it applies to most "proper" 4x4s. You would be best off going for a test drive in one to really figure out if the size is something you can handle.

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    Default Re: Help Me Choose A Car? - Australia

    Wow, that sounds a lot like what I was contending with as I bought my first ever car last year. Well minus the Australia part.
    I knew absolutely nothing excpt I didn't really want spend money on a car and I really really didn't want to spend time and effort maintaining one.


    One tip I have is try and get "dealer cars". If that's a good term. The car I eventually got had been in use of the car dealership so was fully tricked out, not driven that much despite bit more age on it and you know they've taken care of it.

    I can't say for sure how currencies and local carmarkets shake out but I think you are a bit light in budget. Couple of thousand will only buy you a junker. And I don't think you want to start out like Mad Max from the get go. Just as a comparion the same dealer had a trade-in 2009 Nissan Micra at 175.000km, ok but fairly dusted up inside (it looked "worn") for roughly 5000 (where I wanted to be moneywise), or I could go with their dealer-car a 2012 Nissan Micra at 35.000ish kms totally tricked out with extras for 10.000. In the end I went for the more expensive but in my mind more relaible option. The new 2017-8 Micra woulda been another doubling up of price. The Micra is a fairly small car. Something SUV/Crossover size is more. Mind I didn't plan on driving in a snakeinfested hellhole of post-apocalyptic doom.

    Kms driven, age of car and price are unforgiving mistresses. And cardealers are much better at pegging those numbers than you are. Basically if it scores well on all 3 it has a hidden flaw. Which is why I grudingly paid more than I wanted because I value realiability and ease.

    The problem with modern SUVs and the "crossover" models, think that's the name, is that they are not proper crosscountry cars. They are pretend terrain cars. "City tractors" I know they are derisively called sometimes. They look like they are capable but when it boils down to it the groundclearence isn't significantly better than any other car. Then there are other factors, did the engineers consider it driving in places with more dust than air? How well will filtrationsystems work? The Japanese engineers who designed my car has apparently never seen snow (it builds up on design details in the most inconvenient places). Not an Asutralia problem, but what else particular to you have they not considered?

    Do you have any possibility to ask people living the places where you are going to be driving for work? Because obviously they'll have an information advantage there.

    And finally, are you certain going out exploring in the outback just like that is a very good idea? Maybe stick to the roads for work trips and then go proper exploring under organised circumstances.

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    Default Re: Help Me Choose A Car? - Australia

    I know the standard vehicle for the outback used to be the Toyota LandCruiser (quite simply nothing else was as reliable), but may I suggest asking your new colleagues what they recommend? For one thing, it may help you get parts if you ever have a problem at your new site.

    Looking at some of the advice you have been given:
    Dealer cars (what I call ex-demo) are great - but you are basically paying the same price as a brand new low spec car for a top spec one with a few miles on it - you specified second hand which makes me think this is too expensive for you. (Otherwise that's what I do and I reocmmend it.)

    Reliablility - how travelled is the route you will be taking to the site? If passers by are not frequent then reliability is your number 1 priority - over and above everything else that fits basic requirements (so ability to carry 4 people is a basic requirement not a priority).

    Good luck.

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    Default Re: Help Me Choose A Car? - Australia

    Quote Originally Posted by Serpentine View Post
    distance driving, the place I'm going is a ~15 hour drive, excluding breaks, from where I am now, and ~1.5-2 hours from the nearest decent size town.
    Err... that's a hell of a commute. Are you, like, living above the job? Moving to that small town? Given it seems to be in the middle of nowhere, with naught but rabbits and kangaroos for company, does the job not come with transportation options?

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    I would say that's the dumbest theory Grey Wolf's heard, but, let's be honest: It's Grey Wolf. They've probably heard dumber theories today. Point is, neat idea, but it's a real stretch.
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    Default Re: Help Me Choose A Car? - Australia

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    Err... that's a hell of a commute. Are you, like, living above the job? Moving to that small town? Given it seems to be in the middle of nowhere, with naught but rabbits and kangaroos for company, does the job not come with transportation options?

    Grey Wolf
    Yes, I'm moving to the small town. Zero public transport and the place I'm working is several km out of town.

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    Default Re: Help Me Choose A Car? - Australia

    Quote Originally Posted by Serpentine View Post
    Yes, I'm moving to the small town. Zero public transport and the place I'm working is several km out of town.
    Got to love Australian understatement, when a 1.5+ hour drive is considered only "several" kilometres.

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    Default Re: Help Me Choose A Car? - Australia

    Quote Originally Posted by factotum View Post
    Got to love Australian understatement, when a 1.5+ hour drive is considered only "several" kilometres.
    No, no. The specific organisation I'm working at is several km out of the town I'm moving to, like 10 minute drive or something.
    This town is a 1.5+ drive from the nearest decent sized town.
    And the town I'm moving to is 15+ hours from where I currently live.

    Talked to my new boss. She said 2wd would be fine if I'm staying strictly on the main roads, but 4wd would be good if I want to go anywhere else.
    I'm thinking I'll stick with 4wd, just so I can have some more freedom and flexibility.

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    Default Re: Help Me Choose A Car? - Australia

    I wish I could help you but my knowledge of cars is insubstantial compared to the fine folks upthread. About the only thing is suggest you consider a pick-up truck rather than a car, since I foresee a lot of trips to the far town for stuff the small village can't provide, and you may want to make the most out of it by making one large trip and bring back everything rather than do several small ones. The Toyota Hilux is famously indestructible, so second or third hand will still be fine, and it does come with a/c, as far as I can tell.

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    Quote Originally Posted by woweedd View Post
    I would say that's the dumbest theory Grey Wolf's heard, but, let's be honest: It's Grey Wolf. They've probably heard dumber theories today. Point is, neat idea, but it's a real stretch.
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    Default Re: Help Me Choose A Car? - Australia

    For any Australian, the car of choice ought to be obvious.



    OK, non-joke answer-- Like others have said, Subaru is pretty good choice. I like them but I'm also Oregonian and we have a weird cultural Subaru bias. They are cheap to service, generally though, (barring something like head gasket replacement,) and they also have a pretty strong aftermarket so replacement parts are pretty easy to get, (at least where I live, though I understand Subarus are pretty popular in Australia too.) Though for whatever reason, finding inexpensive Subarus that haven't had questionable modifications done to them can be a challenge in my area. Maybe it's different where you are.
    Iop brain.

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    Default Re: Help Me Choose A Car? - Australia

    OH YEAH THIS

    I ended up just going with RAV4 because it was the most consistently suggested thing and I got sick of thinking about it.
    Now trying to narrow it down between 3 or 4 options. Test drove 3, waiting to see if I can test drive the 4th on Monday. At the moment the lead contestant is a 2009 RAV4 Cruiser for $9990. Way up the upper end of my budget, but the newest and nicest.

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    Default Re: Help Me Choose A Car? - Australia

    It's nice to see some old faces floating around here again!

    I'm a little late to the party but can also confirm that Toyotas have some pretty solid reliability and although I'm uncertain as to whether this is a trait all Japanese cars share but I certainly found my Nissan a lot easier to fix up and repair than any European car I owned.

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    Default Re: Help Me Choose A Car? - Australia

    Quote Originally Posted by Serpentine View Post
    OH YEAH THIS

    I ended up just going with RAV4 because it was the most consistently suggested thing and I got sick of thinking about it.
    Now trying to narrow it down between 3 or 4 options. Test drove 3, waiting to see if I can test drive the 4th on Monday. At the moment the lead contestant is a 2009 RAV4 Cruiser for $9990. Way up the upper end of my budget, but the newest and nicest.
    My best friend had a rav 4 throughout high school and college. Evacuation got rid of it. For a new one a few years ago. The new one is very nice and fancy. The old one was quite old when he got it, and the thing was a tank. I cannot recommend that thing highly enough.
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    Default Re: Help Me Choose A Car? - Australia

    Quote Originally Posted by Serpentine View Post
    OH YEAH THIS

    I ended up just going with RAV4 because it was the most consistently suggested thing and I got sick of thinking about it.
    Now trying to narrow it down between 3 or 4 options. Test drove 3, waiting to see if I can test drive the 4th on Monday. At the moment the lead contestant is a 2009 RAV4 Cruiser for $9990. Way up the upper end of my budget, but the newest and nicest.
    A RAV4 is a pretty smart choice. Toyotas in general are built pretty solidly and tend to be cheap to fix when they do break. Though for your purposes, it probably won't need much more than routine maintenance.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Succubus View Post
    It's nice to see some old faces floating around here again!

    I'm a little late to the party but can also confirm that Toyotas have some pretty solid reliability and although I'm uncertain as to whether this is a trait all Japanese cars share but I certainly found my Nissan a lot easier to fix up and repair than any European car I owned.
    For the most part, it is true that all Japanese cars are reliable. Not to say that parts on them never wear out, or that they never need repairs. They are pretty easy to fix though. The easiest cars I've ever worked on were Hondas, though brands like Toyota, Mazda and Subaru weren't that hard either.
    Iop brain.

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    Default Re: Help Me Choose A Car? - Australia

    Quote Originally Posted by The Succubus View Post
    I'm a little late to the party but can also confirm that Toyotas have some pretty solid reliability and although I'm uncertain as to whether this is a trait all Japanese cars share but I certainly found my Nissan a lot easier to fix up and repair than any European car I owned.
    I'm assuming you're talking about quite an old Nissan there? Since 1999 they've been part of the Renault-Nissan-Mitsubishi alliance, which means they use a lot of Renault components--I had a Nissan Micra as a courtesy car from a garage back in the early 2000s, and the latches for tipping the seats forward for rear passengers were both jammed. I pointed this out when I returned the car, and the guy told me that their reliability had taken a serious downturn since Renault's involvement.

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    Default Re: Help Me Choose A Car? - Australia

    Quote Originally Posted by factotum View Post
    I'm assuming you're talking about quite an old Nissan there? Since 1999 they've been part of the Renault-Nissan-Mitsubishi alliance, which means they use a lot of Renault components--I had a Nissan Micra as a courtesy car from a garage back in the early 2000s, and the latches for tipping the seats forward for rear passengers were both jammed. I pointed this out when I returned the car, and the guy told me that their reliability had taken a serious downturn since Renault's involvement.
    Renault? Oh that's a European car, a French car, they got those thin tires, you know, my car is French!
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    Default Re: Help Me Choose A Car? - Australia

    Quote Originally Posted by factotum View Post
    I'm assuming you're talking about quite an old Nissan there? Since 1999 they've been part of the Renault-Nissan-Mitsubishi alliance, which means they use a lot of Renault components--I had a Nissan Micra as a courtesy car from a garage back in the early 2000s, and the latches for tipping the seats forward for rear passengers were both jammed. I pointed this out when I returned the car, and the guy told me that their reliability had taken a serious downturn since Renault's involvement.
    They did? Was that something Nissan did for the UK market? USDM models seem all right, though I do find some of their wiring diagrams sort of confusing. Renault is one of those brands that never really caught on in the US, so it seems weird that Nissan would build them out of components that are hard to get. Not so weird that they wouldn't do it, mind you.

    Mitsubishi, I know had a deal with Chrysler for quite a while, and quite a few of Chrysler's economy cars from the 1990s were actually rebadged Mistubishis.
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    Default Re: Help Me Choose A Car? - Australia

    Quote Originally Posted by factotum View Post
    I'm assuming you're talking about quite an old Nissan there? Since 1999 they've been part of the Renault-Nissan-Mitsubishi alliance, which means they use a lot of Renault components--I had a Nissan Micra as a courtesy car from a garage back in the early 2000s, and the latches for tipping the seats forward for rear passengers were both jammed. I pointed this out when I returned the car, and the guy told me that their reliability had taken a serious downturn since Renault's involvement.
    Yeah, it was a really old Nissan Micra but it was a good little beastie, like the driving equivalent of a set of comfortable slippers.

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    Default Re: Help Me Choose A Car? - Australia

    This is a bit redundant at this point in the conversation, and I don't know if there are any of these in Australia at all or if they come in automatic, but if cheap and small are requirements an "off the beaten path" option would be a Fiat Panda 4x4.

    The Panda is small and cheap compared to many serious terrain cars, the 4x4 version has some extra ground clearance, it's probably not terribly powerful but in mostly flat terrain (and because of its size) it doesn't need to be, and it's easy to operate. Due to some clever engineering the 4 wheel drive activates automatically if the differential slips too much. At least one version of the concept was (is?) popular with the Italian police. It offered them good enough terrain capabilities on a car still perfectly at home in the city.
    Last edited by Lvl 2 Expert; 2019-03-31 at 02:16 PM.

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    Default Re: Help Me Choose A Car? - Australia

    https://tanks-alot.co.uk/military-vehicles-for-sale/


    I recommend going with the Ferret Armored Car. It should be able to handle your giant spiders, but kangaroos may pose a problem.
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    Default Re: Help Me Choose A Car? - Australia

    Quote Originally Posted by Lvl 2 Expert View Post
    This is a bit redundant at this point in the conversation, and I don't know if there are any of these in Australia at all or if they come in automatic, but if cheap and small are requirements an "off the beaten path" option would be a Fiat Panda 4x4.
    Can't speak for Australia, but in the UK the only "automatic" option on a Panda is Fiat's Duologic system, which is basically a computer-controlled manual gearbox. I've not heard good things about that gearbox, and I have no idea if it's available in the Panda 4x4 variant.

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    Default Re: Help Me Choose A Car? - Australia

    Quote Originally Posted by The Fury View Post
    They did? Was that something Nissan did for the UK market? USDM models seem all right, though I do find some of their wiring diagrams sort of confusing. Renault is one of those brands that never really caught on in the US, so it seems weird that Nissan would build them out of components that are hard to get. Not so weird that they wouldn't do it, mind you.
    It's not weird at all. Car manufacturers do not have "parts that are hard to get". The thing you are misunderstanding is when you think of "Renault parts", "Nissan aprts" etc, that's not how it works. Eg. the Renault-Nissan-etc works by having parts that are the same throughtout the conglomerate. That means part availabiltiy is bigger, really, since you only have camshaft XXX.12345-8901 and stuff that into half the sedan models produced. It's not a Nissan part or Renault part anymore (and it's probably made by the same sub-sub contractor everyone else uses too).

    The main question is probably going to be where it was made. Cars for the European market are often produced in Europe. Especially if it's a type more common in Euripe, say a smaller comapct car.

    I also strongly suspect the Japanese car industry is losing it's edge with reliability too. Too many outsourcing and part-manufactoring and sub-assembly going on today for quality not to suffer. You just do not have the same control over the supply chain anymore and culture of achieving attached to all parts of it.

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    Default Re: Help Me Choose A Car? - Australia

    Quote Originally Posted by The Fury View Post
    For the most part, it is true that all Japanese cars are reliable. Not to say that parts on them never wear out, or that they never need repairs. They are pretty easy to fix though. The easiest cars I've ever worked on were Hondas, though brands like Toyota, Mazda and Subaru weren't that hard either.
    I really like Subarus, but I don't think that they are on the same level as Toyotas for reliability and cost of repair.

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    Default Re: Help Me Choose A Car? - Australia

    Quote Originally Posted by snowblizz View Post
    It's not weird at all. Car manufacturers do not have "parts that are hard to get". The thing you are misunderstanding is when you think of "Renault parts", "Nissan aprts" etc, that's not how it works. Eg. the Renault-Nissan-etc works by having parts that are the same throughtout the conglomerate. That means part availabiltiy is bigger, really, since you only have camshaft XXX.12345-8901 and stuff that into half the sedan models produced. It's not a Nissan part or Renault part anymore (and it's probably made by the same sub-sub contractor everyone else uses too).

    The main question is probably going to be where it was made. Cars for the European market are often produced in Europe. Especially if it's a type more common in Euripe, say a smaller comapct car.

    I also strongly suspect the Japanese car industry is losing it's edge with reliability too. Too many outsourcing and part-manufactoring and sub-assembly going on today for quality not to suffer. You just do not have the same control over the supply chain anymore and culture of achieving attached to all parts of it.
    Sure, plenty of of OEM car makers subcontract parts production and engineering out to other manufaturers, (modules made by Delphi, relays made by Bosch or transmissions made by Tremec,) and it's not exactly new. Though some car makers do use components designed and made in-house by other car makers as well. I've taken parts out of a Volvo that were made by Ford and were branded as such.

    Though as an aside, a camshaft probably would not be a "parts bin" type part, since it's a precision-ground machine part and would only fit engines of the same engine family. That is, it could work if a Nissan engine and a Renault engine were completely the same or very, very similar mechanically.
    Iop brain.

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    Default Re: Help Me Choose A Car? - Australia

    Quote Originally Posted by The Fury View Post
    Though as an aside, a camshaft probably would not be a "parts bin" type part, since it's a precision-ground machine part and would only fit engines of the same engine family. That is, it could work if a Nissan engine and a Renault engine were completely the same or very, very similar mechanically.
    A lot of those engines are. You've probably seen Nissan, Renault *and* Mitsubishi cars labelled "dCi". That's not a coincidence--all those cars use the same dCi diesel engine that was co-developed by the three manufacturers. The latest Nissan Micras sold in the UK can be got with the same 900cc turbo petrol unit that's in my 2013 Dacia Sandero (another Renault-owned company), although in that case Nissan call it the IG-T engine rather than using the TCe Renault designation.

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