Wondrous Item Crafting. Am I Doing This Right?

[Ravenv13]

Well, the reason I told you how to remove the “make a skill check to restore uses” was because you said you didn’t want that; you wanted unlimited uses.

The discount is because any item which requires a specific skill to be able to use it gets a 10% discount. If you had a temperamental flying carpet that needed the Ride skill to successfully use, it would be 10% cheaper than the listed cost for the normal item.

In the big post you quoted, I priced out the item as you described it, with two primary variants based on what you said you wanted and to let you make a choice. What you’ve described sounds very doable to me. It’s just way cheaper than your estimates make it!

The healer’s kit with infinite uses is 500 gp. Making it also a masterwork club is 300 gp more. This would give you +1 to hit and +2 to heal checks for 800 gp; as a great club, it’s damage would be 1d8. If it’s just a club, it’s 1d6. (Great clubs are martial weapons; clubs are simple. Design it so you’re proficient with it rather than paying extra to magic it into not giving you non proficiency penalties.)

If you also want +5 competence to healing from it, that’s an additional 2500 gp.

If you want to make the replacements yourself, the “farm” inside still can provide raw materials. This is all fluff.

Again, though, be not dismayed! What you’ve described is well within custom item design rules, and actually much cheaper than you seem to think!

This last line, is very appreciated. I love GITP because the people on here are pretty understanding and friendly.

I have noted the discount for items requiring a skill check.

I see how the infinite uses works now. You use the skill bonus magic rules instead of refilling the healers kit.

You are using the creating new weapon rules, with the design points, adding a healers kit as a tool? I didnt think of that...

You are correct in all of this. My bad for misunderstanding.

Now you got that line about the replacements backwards. I want the kit to make the replacements, and i wanna provide the raw materials.

Is there anyway to still incorporate that into giving the +2 competence bonus?

Again, you guys are awesome.

Edited: I forgot that i highlighted the proficiency part. Pugilist is a 3rd party class and has only simple weapon proficiency, however: a large club deals 1d8 instead pf 1d6, correct? I was gonna size the "weapon" to my characters "powerful build size".

Proud to Present:

Spoiler

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Ring of Physique

Aura faint transmutation; CL 3rd; Slot ring; Price 12,000 gp; Weight —

This ring increases the wearer's muscle mass. While equipped, the wearer is treated as one size larger whenever beneficial. Whenever the wearer is subject to a size modifier or special size modifier for a Combat Maneuver Bonus or Combat Maneuver Defense (such as during grapple checks, bull rush attempts, and trip attempts), the wearer is treated as one size larger if doing so is beneficial to the wearer. The wearer is also considered to be one size larger when determining whether a the wearer’s special attacks based on size can affect him. The wearer can use weapons designed for a creature one size larger without penalty. The wearer's space and reach remain those of a creature of its actual size. This size increase is magical and does not stack.

Forge Ring, Enlarge Person; Cost 6,000 gp, XP Cost: 240.

Edited, again: And Ive recently realized that XP cost doesnt exist anymore. So thats still there because i wanted to quote part of the post, not edit it and then quote it.

[Ravenv13]

Okay, so i forgot the creating new weapon rules, lots of information swimming around up in the noggin.

Spoiler: Basic, non-magical weapon.

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Healer's Club (6 DP Total)

Cost: 156 gp
Weight: 7 lbs.
Damage: 1d8 (medium)
Critical: x3
Type: bludgeoning
Range Increment: 10 ft. (thrown)
Category: one-handed
Proficiency: simple
Weapon Groups: hammers

The weapon looks like a bulky Healer's Kit made of steel with reinforcment around each edge and corner, and can be used as such. The Healer's Club is dense enough to be used as a melee weapon, yet still light enough to be thrown.

Aerodynamic (1 DP): 10 ft (Thrown)

Improved Critical Multiplier (3 DP): (x2 to x3).

Improved Damage (3 DP): (1d3 to 1d4, 1d4 to 1d6, 1d6 to 1d8).

Tool (0 DP): MW Healer's Kit; +300 gp and +4 lbs.

And:

Spoiler: Final Product (?)

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Combat Surgeon’s Kit

Wondrous Item

Masterwork Healer's Club

Aura: faint conjuration (creation); CL: 1st; Slot: -; Price: 5,612 gp; Weight: 7 lbs.

This masterwork healer's club provides a +2 circumstance bonus on Heal checks made with it. A Combat Surgeon's Kit is exhausted after 10 uses.

You can make a Survival check (DC 15) to restore the uses to the Healer's Kit.

The wielder of this masterwork healer's club gains a +5 competence bonus on Heal checks made with it.

Craft Wondrous Item; Cost: 2,806.

Again, you guys are so helpful.

[Segev]

I'm actually not touching any "creating new weapons" rules. I'm looking at "big, heavy case" and saying, "Sure, if you spend the 300 gp to make that a masterwork weapon, calling it a masterwork club and using masterwork club stats should be fine.)

I'm going to repeat back what I understand you to be asking for, and avoiding any mechanical discussion at this time, just to make sure I'm understanding you correctly. Because while I think I am, some of your responses to what I'm saying sound like you're not liking what I've put forth as options, which suggests to me that either I don't understand what you're asking for as well as I think I do, or that I'm doing a bad job conveying what I mean and where my numbers are coming from. I want to make sure it's the latter and not the former before I try again to ennumerate the build and rules I'm suggesting.


What you want is:

A healer's kit (just like the standard 50 gp one in the SRD) that has unlimited uses as long as you put raw materials (herbs, cloth, etc.) into it, so it transforms the raw materials into the stuff that you pull out of the kit for each use. You want to just put raw materials in whenever the 10 uses are used up. (Query: do you care if you have to pay for the raw materials? How much do you expect those to cost compared to just buying a new, non-magical kit each time the 10 uses of a current one are used up?) You do not particularly want to have to make a skill check for this replenishment, but don't mind if you have to.

You also want to be able to bludgeon people with the kit, using it like a weapon, without suffering nonproficiency penalties.


Is this accurate? If not, what am I missing or misreading?

[Ravenv13]

I'm actually not touching any "creating new weapons" rules. I'm looking at "big, heavy case" and saying, "Sure, if you spend the 300 gp to make that a masterwork weapon, calling it a masterwork club and using masterwork club stats should be fine.)

I'm going to repeat back what I understand you to be asking for, and avoiding any mechanical discussion at this time, just to make sure I'm understanding you correctly. Because while I think I am, some of your responses to what I'm saying sound like you're not liking what I've put forth as options, which suggests to me that either I don't understand what you're asking for as well as I think I do, or that I'm doing a bad job conveying what I mean and where my numbers are coming from. I want to make sure it's the latter and not the former before I try again to ennumerate the build and rules I'm suggesting.


What you want is:

A healer's kit (just like the standard 50 gp one in the SRD) that has unlimited uses as long as you put raw materials (herbs, cloth, etc.) into it, so it transforms the raw materials into the stuff that you pull out of the kit for each use. You want to just put raw materials in whenever the 10 uses are used up. (Query: do you care if you have to pay for the raw materials? How much do you expect those to cost compared to just buying a new, non-magical kit each time the 10 uses of a current one are used up?) You do not particularly want to have to make a skill check for this replenishment, but don't mind if you have to.

You also want to be able to bludgeon people with the kit, using it like a weapon, without suffering nonproficiency penalties.


Is this accurate? If not, what am I missing or misreading?

A healer's kit (just like the standard 50 gp one in the SRD

MW Healer's Kit grants the +2 to Heal right?
If not then, Correct just just a plain Healer's Kit.

unlimited uses as long as you put raw materials (herbs, cloth, etc.) into it, so it transforms the raw materials into the stuff that you pull out of the kit for each use. You want to just put raw materials in whenever the 10 uses are used up.

Correct Again.

Query: do you care if you have to pay for the raw materials? How much do you expect those to cost compared to just buying a new, non-magical kit each time the 10 uses of a current one are used up?

Id actually like to pay for them or roll to "find" them. Hence the Survival check.

However, if paying, i would like to pay at least 1/5 the price of normal non-magical (mw?) healer's kit, or 10 gp, with 2/5 the price at 20 gp witht the most id like to pay.

You also want to be able to bludgeon people with the kit, using it like a weapon, without suffering nonproficiency penalties.

Correct again, and i realized that most of that is all fluff hence the drastic changes.

Sure, if you spend the 300 gp to make that a masterwork weapon, calling it a masterwork club and using masterwork club stats should be fine.

Yeah, i can rationalize that too, but i want a "legal" way. My GM is a stickler for rules, and there isn't a rule like that.

"If you can find a legal way to do it, then its allowed, if its not RAW, it isnt." - My GM

So, im trying to use any "published rules" compatible with PF to figure it out. Dont get me wrong though, i love my GM. He makes fun and in depth games, he just thinks a game should follow its rules.

[The Kool]

Have this rule for your DM:

Many factors must be considered when determining the price of new magic items. The easiest way to come up with a price is to compare the new item to an item that is already priced, using that price as a guide. Otherwise, use the guidelines summarized on Table: Estimating Magic Item Gold Piece Values.

The correct way to price an item is by comparing its abilities to similar items (see Magic Item Gold Piece Values), and only if there are no similar items should you use the pricing formulas to determine an approximate price for the item.

Surgeon's Vest is a very similar item, so your price should be very close to the price of that item. Up if you add benefits, down if you make it more difficult/conditional to use (like requiring a skill check to refill it).

[Ravenv13]

Just to clarify, you can make it a weapon using the wondrous item crafting? Can you elaborate further?

Like which price table should i use?

And Segev, i found the source of all my problems with this item! i was using fluff to make stats instead of fluffing the stats.

[Segev]

With what weapons is your character proficient? I can probably justify a weapon-base with a built-in healer's kit if we pick the right base weapon shape. Maces and clubs seem the most obvious.

Spoiler

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This next part is analysis of what the mundane, non-magical approach to your healer's kit would be.
If you were mundanely crafting your own healer's kits, the typical raw materials cost would be 1/3 the base price, which is less than the 2/5 you were considering your maximum but more than the 1/5 you were considering the minimum. It'd genuinely be your DM's call what the DC to gather those materials via Survival would be rather than paying for them, yourself. It costs 5 sp for 1 day's trail rations, and Survival can cover that with a DC 10 check, +2 per additional person. It's about 167 sp to buy the raw materials to craft a basic healer's kit.

"Earning" 167 sp worth of forrage by Survival would be 34 person-days' worth of rations equivalent (rounding up to 170 sp for the nearest multiple of 5). The near-impossible task of finding all the raw materials you'd need in one day of half-speed travel would be DC 8+2*34 = 76! So that's probably not happening. Doing it in two days would be 8+2*34/2 = DC 42. Still high. Doing it in 3 days would be 8+2*34/3 = 31 (rounded up). Four days: 25. Five days: 22. Six days: 20. Seven days: 18.

So a DC 18 Survival check every day for a week would get you enough material to craft your Healer's Kit.

The actual Craft DC is probably 20; it's a masterwork item. At 500 sp market value, if you ONLY make the DC 20, it'll be 20 (result) * 20 (DC) = 400 sp of progress per week, for a total of 1.25 weeks. If you can make a 25 on your check against the DC 20, it actually will take only 1 week.

So, for two weeks: 1 week of daily DC 18 Survival checks, and 1 week of DC 25 Craft checks, you can make your own healer's kit, from scratch, without spending an actual coin of any sort.

You could actually manage to not have to buy food for the week of Survival checks if you make it DC 20, adding "feed myself" as one more person to the total.

Restoring a single use from the kit would take 1/5 this time, so 1/5 of 14 days, or approximately 3 days of work.


This isn't nearly what you want: you want much more instant restoration. Still, even with a magic item that instantly did the craft work, that's a week of DC 18 survival checks to get 10 uses' worth of raw materials, or 1.4 days for a single use.

Thus, my suggestion goes back to the 500 gp version of a magical healer's kit which never runs out of uses. You can absolutely fluff it as taking raw materials to put into it to restore it when empty, and I'd tie that to a DC 18 survival skill check made to gather the herbs and such, with an option to spend 17 gp buying the raw materials, instead. This should qualify it for a 10% discount, making it 450 gp market price.

This would be 10 uses of it, giving +2 circumstance bonuses to Heal checks, before you need to put in raw materials. (Note: this is far fewer raw materials than "should" be required, since it is DC 18 every day for a week to gather enough raw materials to do it mundanely, but it's magic, and this will keep the flavor, meet the rules requirements for the 10% discount, and be more fun than making you take a week of downtime each time.) Getting the raw materials takes a DC 18 survival check and one day of forraging, or buying them for 17 gp.

Before we look into using it as a weapon, does this sound like what you'd like it to be and do insofar as acting like a healer's kit?

[Ravenv13]

With what weapons is your character proficient? I can probably justify a weapon-base with a built-in healer's kit if we pick the right base weapon shape. Maces and clubs seem the most obvious.

Spoiler

Show

This next part is analysis of what the mundane, non-magical approach to your healer's kit would be.
If you were mundanely crafting your own healer's kits, the typical raw materials cost would be 1/3 the base price, which is less than the 2/5 you were considering your maximum but more than the 1/5 you were considering the minimum. It'd genuinely be your DM's call what the DC to gather those materials via Survival would be rather than paying for them, yourself. It costs 5 sp for 1 day's trail rations, and Survival can cover that with a DC 10 check, +2 per additional person. It's about 167 sp to buy the raw materials to craft a basic healer's kit.

"Earning" 167 sp worth of forrage by Survival would be 34 person-days' worth of rations equivalent (rounding up to 170 sp for the nearest multiple of 5). The near-impossible task of finding all the raw materials you'd need in one day of half-speed travel would be DC 8+2*34 = 76! So that's probably not happening. Doing it in two days would be 8+2*34/2 = DC 42. Still high. Doing it in 3 days would be 8+2*34/3 = 31 (rounded up). Four days: 25. Five days: 22. Six days: 20. Seven days: 18.

So a DC 18 Survival check every day for a week would get you enough material to craft your Healer's Kit.

The actual Craft DC is probably 20; it's a masterwork item. At 500 sp market value, if you ONLY make the DC 20, it'll be 20 (result) * 20 (DC) = 400 sp of progress per week, for a total of 1.25 weeks. If you can make a 25 on your check against the DC 20, it actually will take only 1 week.

So, for two weeks: 1 week of daily DC 18 Survival checks, and 1 week of DC 25 Craft checks, you can make your own healer's kit, from scratch, without spending an actual coin of any sort.

You could actually manage to not have to buy food for the week of Survival checks if you make it DC 20, adding "feed myself" as one more person to the total.

Restoring a single use from the kit would take 1/5 this time, so 1/5 of 14 days, or approximately 3 days of work.


This isn't nearly what you want: you want much more instant restoration. Still, even with a magic item that instantly did the craft work, that's a week of DC 18 survival checks to get 10 uses' worth of raw materials, or 1.4 days for a single use.

Thus, my suggestion goes back to the 500 gp version of a magical healer's kit which never runs out of uses. You can absolutely fluff it as taking raw materials to put into it to restore it when empty, and I'd tie that to a DC 18 survival skill check made to gather the herbs and such, with an option to spend 17 gp buying the raw materials, instead. This should qualify it for a 10% discount, making it 450 gp market price.

This would be 10 uses of it, giving +2 circumstance bonuses to Heal checks, before you need to put in raw materials. (Note: this is far fewer raw materials than "should" be required, since it is DC 18 every day for a week to gather enough raw materials to do it mundanely, but it's magic, and this will keep the flavor, meet the rules requirements for the 10% discount, and be more fun than making you take a week of downtime each time.) Getting the raw materials takes a DC 18 survival check and one day of forraging, or buying them for 17 gp.

Before we look into using it as a weapon, does this sound like what you'd like it to be and do insofar as acting like a healer's kit?

So this?

Spoiler: Effect Clarification

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This masterwork healer's kit gives a +2 circumstance bonuses to Heal checks made while using it. This masterwork healer's kit has 10 uses before you need to put in raw materials. Getting the raw materials takes a DC 18 survival check and one day of foraging, or buying them for 17 gp.
- (Note: this is far fewer raw materials than "should" be required, since it is DC 18 every day for a week to gather enough raw materials to do it mundanely)

The wielder of this masterwork healer's kit gains a +5 competence bonus on Heal checks made with it. Price is 450 gp + 2,500 gp correct?

Before we look into using it as a weapon, does this sound like what you'd like it to be and do insofar as acting like a healer's kit?

The above, absolutely.

With what weapons is your character proficient? I can probably justify a weapon-base with a built-in healer's kit if we pick the right base weapon shape. Maces and clubs seem the most obvious.

All simple weapons.

Spoiler: Pugilist

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And unarmed weapons. And unarmed.

EDITED: Im 7th level, wealth is not rare.

[Segev]

So this?

Spoiler: Effect Clarification

Show

This masterwork healer's kit gives a +2 circumstance bonuses to Heal checks made while using it. This masterwork healer's kit has 10 uses before you need to put in raw materials. Getting the raw materials takes a DC 18 survival check and one day of foraging, or buying them for 17 gp.
- (Note: this is far fewer raw materials than "should" be required, since it is DC 18 every day for a week to gather enough raw materials to do it mundanely)

The wielder of this masterwork healer's kit gains a +5 competence bonus on Heal checks made with it. Price is 450 gp + 2,500 gp correct?

The above, absolutely.

Okay, you've got that priced right. 450 gp+2,500 gp = 2,950 gp total for +2 circumstance bonus and +5 competence bonus (total: +7 bonus from this item), but you must spend 17 gp or make a DC 18 day-long Survival check to procure raw materials to put in after every 10 uses. (Obviously, you can stockpile raw materials beforehand.)

All simple weapons.

Spoiler: Pugilist

Show

And unarmed weapons. And unarmed.

Alright. A club form-factor is probably the best we can do, then. Start with a club shape, then refine it to have multiple cabinets and drawers which seal up tightly until deliberately opened, and reinforced and padded internally to handle drops, jars, and slams into things. This is now a masterwork club, on top of being a storage device for healer's kit materials. As a masterwork club, it costs 300 gp (MW weapon) + 0 gp (club), does 1d6 base damage, is one-handed by default (but can be wielded two-handed if you want to for style and/or +1.5x str mod to damage instead of just +str mod), and offers a +1 enhancement bonus to hit (but not to damage).

This 300 gp MW weapon is also a 2,950 gp magic item that is unrelated in function to its weapon properties. Add the two together to get 3,450 gp total market value.


The rules explanation is roughly as follows:

"It's a club that has been masterworked as a weapon, and designed with storage compartments. These storage compartments that are padded and shock-resistant. A magical healer's kit was then installed into these compartments, taking up all their space and being permanently affixed."

The rules support making masterwork clubs. Adding storage compartments to them is a little odd, but not against the rules. The magical healer's kit is a legal magic item. Storing it permanently in the compartments works.

[Ravenv13]

Okay, you've got that priced right. 450 gp+2,500 gp = 2,950 gp total for +2 circumstance bonus and +5 competence bonus (total: +7 bonus from this item), but you must spend 17 gp or make a DC 18 day-long Survival check to procure raw materials to put in after every 10 uses. (Obviously, you can stockpile raw materials beforehand.)

Alright. A club form-factor is probably the best we can do, then. Start with a club shape, then refine it to have multiple cabinets and drawers which seal up tightly until deliberately opened, and reinforced and padded internally to handle drops, jars, and slams into things. This is now a masterwork club, on top of being a storage device for healer's kit materials. As a masterwork club, it costs 300 gp (MW weapon) + 0 gp (club), does 1d6 base damage, is one-handed by default (but can be wielded two-handed if you want to for style and/or +1.5x str mod to damage instead of just +str mod), and offers a +1 enhancement bonus to hit (but not to damage).

This 300 gp MW weapon is also a 2,950 gp magic item that is unrelated in function to its weapon properties. Add the two together to get 3,450 gp total market value.

The rules explanation is roughly as follows:

"It's a club that has been masterworked as a weapon, and designed with storage compartments. These storage compartments that are padded and shock-resistant. A magical healer's kit was then installed into these compartments, taking up all their space and being permanently affixed."

The rules support making masterwork clubs. Adding storage compartments to them is a little odd, but not against the rules. The magical healer's kit is a legal magic item. Storing it permanently in the compartments works.

I love it. I might use it again separate from this character, it sounds like a pretty cool baseball bat.

This 300 gp MW weapon is also a 2,950 gp magic item that is unrelated in function to its weapon properties. Add the two together to get 3,450 gp total market value.

Just to inform you: The math is 300 + 2,950 = 3250

Spoiler: Updated

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Combat Surgeon’s Kit

Minor Magic Weapon

Cost: 3,250 gp
Weight: 3 lbs.
Damage: 1d6 (M)
Critical: x2
Type: Bludgeoning
Range Increment: 10 ft. (Thrown)
Category: One-handed
Proficiency: Simple
Weapon Groups: Hammers, Tribal

Aura: faint transmutation; CL: 3rd; Slot: -; Price: 3,250 gp; Weight: 3 lbs.

Description: This club has been masterworked as a weapon, and designed as a small crate and an attached handle, containing storage compartments. These storage compartments are padded and shock-resistant. A magical healer's kit was then installed into these compartments, taking up the storage space and is permanently affixed.

Magic Qualities:

The Combat Surgeon's Kit gives a +2 circumstance bonuses to Heal checks made while using it. The Combat Surgeon's Kit has 10 uses before you need to put in raw materials. Getting the raw materials takes a DC 18 survival check and one day of foraging, or buying them for 17 gp.
- (Note: this is far fewer raw materials than "should" be required, since it is DC 18 every day for a week to gather enough raw materials to do it mundanely)

The wielder of the Combat Surgeon's Kit gains a +5 competence bonus on Heal checks made with it. The wielder also has a +1 enhancement bonus to attack rolls made with the Combat Surgeon's Kit.

Craft Wondrous Item; Cost: 1,706 gp.

So anything im misunderstanding or out of place?

I plan on starting a new thread on help stating a non-magic armor and converting it to a magic armor as well (but this time the main point is the non-magical item). Unless i should do it here?

Segev, The Kool, Kaskus, noob, exelsisxax, I wanna thank you all for putting up with me and helping me make this.

[Segev]

I love it. I might use it again separate from this character, it sounds like a pretty cool baseball bat.

Just to inform you: The math is 300 + 2,950 = 3250

<Count Olaf, blatantly lying> I said 3250.

Spoiler: Updated

Show

Combat Surgeon’s Kit

Minor Magic Weapon

Cost: 3,250 gp
Weight: 3 lbs.
Damage: 1d6 (M)
Critical: x2
Type: Bludgeoning
Range Increment: 10 ft. (Thrown)
Category: One-handed
Proficiency: Simple
Weapon Groups: Hammers, Tribal

Aura: faint transmutation; CL: 3rd; Slot: -; Price: 3,250 gp; Weight: 3 lbs.

Description: This club has been masterworked as a weapon, and designed as a small crate and an attached handle, containing storage compartments. These storage compartments are padded and shock-resistant. A magical healer's kit was then installed into these compartments, taking up the storage space and is permanently affixed.

Magic Qualities:

The Combat Surgeon's Kit gives a +2 circumstance bonuses to Heal checks made while using it. The Combat Surgeon's Kit has 10 uses before you need to put in raw materials. Getting the raw materials takes a DC 18 survival check and one day of foraging, or buying them for 17 gp.
- (Note: this is far fewer raw materials than "should" be required, since it is DC 18 every day for a week to gather enough raw materials to do it mundanely)

The wielder of the Combat Surgeon's Kit gains a +5 competence bonus on Heal checks made with it. The wielder also has a +1 enhancement bonus to attack rolls made with the Combat Surgeon's Kit.

Craft Wondrous Item; Cost: 1,706 gp.

So anything im misunderstanding or out of place?

Looks good to me. I think you've got it!

I plan on starting a new thread on help stating a non-magic armor and converting it to a magic armor as well (but this time the main point is the non-magical item). Unless i should do it here?

It wouldn't be out of place here, but it would also be appropriate in its own thread. So: up to you. It might catch new eyes as a new thread. If you want people to follow from this thread to the new one, posting a link to the new thread in a post in this one would probably work as well as posting the new item in this thread.

Segev, The Kool, Kaskus, noob, exelsisxax, I wanna thank you all for putting up with me and helping me make this.

You're quite welcome.

[Ravenv13]

Alrighty then, i posted my stat concept of the Big Daddy Armor

[The Kool]

Very few questions are ever stupid questions. Happy to be of service.

[Ravenv13]

Undead Cohort Optimization