Could Githyanki conquer Faerun?

[Pinjata]

FIXED THE TITLE! I meant Githyanki.

Are all D&D worlds Faerun-like? Each with its own set of zounds of goblins, orcs, crafty dwarves, powerful entities like ancient wizards, dragons, liches, demigods and finally - gods?

I'm asking because Gith are described as Ultimate trans-world badassess and if this is the case, they should be able to face world pantheons and crush them on many occasions. Which is silly strong.

Could Gith ever threaten Faerun?

[Kaptin Keen]

Only if you imagine them as a single, unified force, and if you also imagine they have the supply lines and so on necessary to launch a full, planet scale invasion. In short, no.

[Willie the Duck]

'Ultimate trans-world badassess' is kind of the most... giving description you would give the gith, something you'd tell them to butter them up. They are clearly treated as ass-kickers on their own turf, but not really the go and conquer other worlds type. Nor the sneaky rule them from within. Faerun, that somehow survives drow constantly scheming against the surface dwellers, illithid and beholders and aboleths apparently pulling the strings all over the place, Zhents and Thayans and various demigods and whatever else constantly trying to take over this and that, I just feel that Gith would set their sites on Faerun and get told to take a number.

Mind you, the whole damn thing holds together with bailing wire and chewing gum without the giths help at all, so if you wanted to make the Gith be the ones to find whatever keystone is keeping the whole thing together, why not. I just wouldn't peg anything about the Gith themselves to be the key feature which makes the powers that be finally collapse.

[Man_Over_Game]

'Ultimate trans-world badassess' is kind of the most... giving description you would give the gith, something you'd tell them to butter them up. They are clearly treated as ass-kickers on their own turf, but not really the go and conquer other worlds type. Nor the sneaky rule them from within. Faerun, that somehow survives drow constantly scheming against the surface dwellers, illithid and beholders and aboleths apparently pulling the strings all over the place, Zhents and Thayans and various demigods and whatever else constantly trying to take over this and that, I just feel that Gith would set their sites on Faerun and get told to take a number.

Mind you, the whole damn thing holds together with bailing wire and chewing gum without the giths help at all, so if you wanted to make the Gith be the ones to find whatever keystone is keeping the whole thing together, why not. I just wouldn't peg anything about the Gith themselves to be the key feature which makes the powers that be finally collapse.

Agreed. Part of the reason they were so strong in their home was because it was a place that was manipulated with your mind, and the Gith are experts in psionics.

But even if they are strong, they're busy dealing with infighting between inside of their own culture, or hunting down illithids, or just hating on other races, to really care about expanding and taking over. I feel like they don't really have any major long term plans that don't end at "Kill the Squids".

[GentlemanVoodoo]

Face world pantheon's no. Face sizable armies possibly. That depending if they can unite. In current cannon the Githyanki are war like and have even sided with Tiamant to gain the services of red dragons. This is abhorant to the more peaceful Githzerai. Only thing that really could bring them together is a threat that sees them become slaves again or if the underground movement to unite the two succeeds.

[RazorChain]

Are all D&D worlds Faerun-like? Each with its own set of zounds of goblins, orcs, crafty dwarves, powerful entities like ancient wizards, dragons, liches, demigods and finally - gods?

I'm asking because Gith are described as Ultimate trans-world badassess and if this is the case, they should be able to face world pantheons and crush them on many occasions. Which is silly strong.

Could Gith ever threaten Faerun?

Yes, just like my character, Commander Lemon could have easily defeated Napoleoen Bonaparte in warfare and taken down Captain Kirk in a bout of mudwrestling.

That is to say if you want the Gith to conquer Faerun then they can.

[BWR]

I believe the OP is referring to 'githyanki'.
The gith are degenerate githyanki descended morons in Dark Sun. Can in a pinch be used to refer to both gith- races (and possibly other races descended from the forerunners).
Gith (capital G) is the ancient character who trained her fellow human-descendants in the ways of psionics and warfare and lead to the overthrow of the Illithid empire.


FYI

[redwizard007]

Are all D&D worlds Faerun-like? Each with its own set of zounds of goblins, orcs, crafty dwarves, powerful entities like ancient wizards, dragons, liches, demigods and finally - gods?

I'm asking because Gith are described as Ultimate trans-world badassess and if this is the case, they should be able to face world pantheons and crush them on many occasions. Which is silly strong.

Could Gith ever threaten Faerun?

Short answer, probably not.

Long answer, if they can neutralize all the overpowered NPCs, isolate powerful nations, and gain local allys, there is a chance.

Dragon Magazine #309 had a rough sketch of the specifics.

[LibraryOgre]

Another part of the reason githyanki tend to be so scary in the astral is their Silver Swords have a chance to cut one's astral cord, which is an instant kill.

[Papa_Hewi]

Githyanki aren't really conquerers are they? From what I recall they're more akin to a pirate fleet relying on hit and run tactics. They can certainly do a lot of damage, but I don't see how, or even why they would even want to conquer a material plane.

[LibraryOgre]

Githyanki aren't really conquerers are they? From what I recall they're more akin to a pirate fleet relying on hit and run tactics. They can certainly do a lot of damage, but I don't see how, or even why they would even want to conquer a material plane.

Picture a world entirely subjugated by Mind Flayers. Human slaves, dominated and "free", all providing food and labor for their illithid overlords.

[Papa_Hewi]

Picture a world entirely subjugated by Mind Flayers. Human slaves, dominated and "free", all providing food and labor for their illithid overlords.

I can see them trying to nuke the world in that case, but I still don't think they'd go for a prolonged campaign.

[Eldan]

I can see them trying to nuke the world in that case, but I still don't think they'd go for a prolonged campaign.

No, that's their homeworld. The Githzerai and Githyanki were the slaves who secretly mastered enough psionics and weaponcraft that they rebelled. They conquered that world back from the Illithids.

[Man_Over_Game]

Picture a world entirely subjugated by Mind Flayers. Human slaves, dominated and "free", all providing food and labor for their illithid overlords.

I can see them trying to nuke the world in that case, but I still don't think they'd go for a prolonged campaign.

No, that's their homeworld. The Githzerai and Githyanki were the slaves who secretly mastered enough psionics and weaponcraft that they rebelled. They conquered that world back from the Illithids.

To be fair, I'd expect the Githyanki to do exactly that. It'd be deeply ironic that they would wipe out entire species just like theirs due to their zealous vindictiveness.

And then they'd get over it and move on to the next plane to hunt more squidface. Their job isn't to whine about collateral damage, that's what the Githzerai are for.

[The Jack]

Excellent raiders, but culturally I don't think they have it in them. It's not just that I imagine them small in number due to their extreme living condition (and they have one city), it's that they don't seem to have the mentality to really 'conquer' and then expand from there; they're too elitist and can't win people over. They're not really suited for open warfare. Even though they're apparently CR3 a mook, I imagine they'd lose out to hobgoblins (who've been really trying) and humans in that they're not practiced with fighting in formations and such.

[Lapak]

Excellent raiders, but culturally I don't think they have it in them. It's not just that I imagine them small in number due to their extreme living condition (and they have one city), it's that they don't seem to have the mentality to really 'conquer' and then expand from there; they're too elitist and can't win people over. They're not really suited for open warfare. Even though they're apparently CR3 a mook, I imagine they'd lose out to hobgoblins (who've been really trying) and humans in that they're not practiced with fighting in formations and such.

This. I'd say that the balance the fluff is going for is something along the lines of:

• There are few cities/cultures on Faerun that could easily hold off a determined raiding party on a particular mission (for example, to steal back a Silver Sword that they lost)
• There are few cities/cultures on Faerun that could not kick them out if they tried to capture and hold the territory instead of doing a smash-and-retreat raid

[Mechalich]

No, that's their homeworld. The Githzerai and Githyanki were the slaves who secretly mastered enough psionics and weaponcraft that they rebelled. They conquered that world back from the Illithids.

Technically the Githyanki and Githzerai are the descendants of the human slaves who rebelled against the Illithid Empire and then, rather than returning to Prime Material worlds, settled in the Astral Plane and limbo respectively, which caused them to evolve into separate species over time (planar energies being some pretty strong stuff). There's also a third branch, the Pirates of Gith, that chose to live in the open vastness of Wildspace.

That being said the Githyanki aren't interested in conquering Prime Material Worlds. They live in the Astral Plane, which is infinitely big their society is not under any spatial constraints. They do have resource limitations, and they chose to raid (usually through Color Pools, the natural way in and out of the Astral) soft targets for resources or to get their hate-murder on over the still despised Illithid oppressors. They also have plenty of defending of the Astral to do on their own, fighting off all kinds of nasty creatures like Psurlons who want to take it from them.

Could the Githyanki conquer Faerun? Sure, simply through sheer weight of numbers if nothing else - infinitely big planes after all - but it would cost immense resources and would surely trigger Githzerai retaliation (among others, probably), which would turn the planet into just another front in that conflict, one where the Githyanki do not have a terrain advantage.

In general, in D&D when an extraplanar faction invades a Prime Material world it suffers an immediate counter-invasion from that faction's opposite number(s) or at the very least faces opposition from the Rilmani/Aeons serving to maintain the balance. Or, if the faction lacks a naturally opposed counterweight as in the case of say, the Ethergaunts, the deities of a given Crystal Sphere will try to unify temporarily against the external threat. This doesn't always work - Crystal Spheres can be conquered (there was one old Spelljammer published campaign that involved an Empire that controlled like 12 Crystal Spheres or something) - but in general the nature of the D&D cosmos is strongly pro-status quo.

[Vhaidara]

Unless something changed in later editions, not a bloody chance. I forget the exact number, but their Lich Queen kills any Githyanki who gets above around level 15. Which means NONE of them have access to top level spells, much less Epic.

Then consider what setting you're invading. Faerun. Aka "You can't swing a cat without hitting an Epic level wizard". The ELH included a freaking GENERIC EPIC RED WIZARD. I'mnot even sure if the entire githyanki population, with Vlakith's aid, could beat just the population of FR presented in the ELH.

oh, and this

Are all D&D worlds Faerun-like?

No, not really. Faerun is very high power high magic kitchen sink.I do think the githyanki host would be able to give a lower power setting like Eberron or Athas a run for their money, where they aren't constantly having to deal with spellcasters who have literally twice as many levels as the strongest githyanki alive.

[Willie the Duck]

Could the Githyanki conquer Faerun? Sure, simply through sheer weight of numbers if nothing else - infinitely big planes after all.

Going back to my statement of, "I just wouldn't peg anything about the Gith themselves to be the key feature," --this is certainly true, but it's a general issue with the D&D universe. There are more than a few "infinites" in D&D that should make any of the finite sections untenable. Would Faerun be swamped by infinite Githyanki (assuming for the moment that the infinitely large Astral with a specified population density of Githyanki means that there are, in fact, infinite Githyanki)? Sure, unless the infinite demons, infinite devils, infinite interlopers from an infinite number of alternate prime materials don't do it first.

[Maloney]

I feel like Faerun is too full of unfathomable deities and heroes and adventuring parties. Think about it, every single cosmic problem in Faerun is generally solved by a couple of nobodies forming an adventuring party. People like Elminster running around could stomp out the Gith with a snap of his fingers, and the gods of Faerun seem pretty insistent that nobody invades.

[Keltest]

From my understanding, the Githyanki are sort of like magic space Vikings. Theyre brutal and horrifying and irreverent and kind of mysterious, but they aren't a conquering army and don't really have what it takes to become one against Faerun or other high magic settings. If they were determined to, they could cause a lot of damage, but they aren't going to be the ones in charge when the dust settles.

[Vhaidara]

Additional note: githyanki living on the astral + infinite astral != infinite githyanki. In fact, I'm pretty sure their numbers are fairly small on account of being entirely ruled by the aforementioned pre-epic lich queen. I think they'd be more on the order of a nation, not a planet, and certainly not infinite

[Willie the Duck]

Additional note: githyanki living on the astral + infinite astral != infinite githyanki. In fact, I'm pretty sure their numbers are fairly small on account of being entirely ruled by the aforementioned pre-epic lich queen. I think they'd be more on the order of a nation, not a planet, and certainly not infinite

Thanks for the clarification. I never know (without double checking) how each instance of infinite-ness is handled in this game. So, do they just inhabit some small corner of the astral?

[Vhaidara]

Thanks for the clarification. I never know (without double checking) how each instance of infinite-ness is handled in this game. So, do they just inhabit some small corner of the astral?

I don't think a lot of detail is given with regards to their numbers or territory, I'm more guessing based on the fact that they are ruled with enough precision that Vlakith can eliminate any githyanki who grows strong enough to pose a threat to her before they can splinter off into their own faction

[Kaptin Keen]

Additional note: githyanki living on the astral + infinite astral != infinite githyanki. In fact, I'm pretty sure their numbers are fairly small on account of being entirely ruled by the aforementioned pre-epic lich queen. I think they'd be more on the order of a nation, not a planet, and certainly not infinite

I couldn't agree any less with this. There are as close as makes any difference to infinite numbers of githyanki - an infinite number, scattered across an infinite expanse. Travel for as many lifetimes as you like, in any directions: Right there, the githyanki will be.

In the race for most numerous infinite number race in the multiverse, they're far from the top - the devils and demons and so on are more numerous, but I'd say there's likely some third grouping that takes the prize, some sort of universal roach more numerous than anything else in existance.

[Mordar]

'Ultimate trans-world badassess' is kind of the most... giving description you would give the gith, something you'd tell them to butter them up. They are clearly treated as ass-kickers on their own turf, but not really the go and conquer other worlds type. Nor the sneaky rule them from within. Faerun, that somehow survives drow constantly scheming against the surface dwellers, illithid and beholders and aboleths apparently pulling the strings all over the place, Zhents and Thayans and various demigods and whatever else constantly trying to take over this and that, I just feel that Gith would set their sites on Faerun and get told to take a number.

Mind you, the whole damn thing holds together with bailing wire and chewing gum without the giths help at all, so if you wanted to make the Gith be the ones to find whatever keystone is keeping the whole thing together, why not. I just wouldn't peg anything about the Gith themselves to be the key feature which makes the powers that be finally collapse.

I mostly agree with this, with one exception...I don't believe it is quite right to say "...somehow survives..." as indicated in bold above. I believe the list of struggles after that statement are the reason why Faerun could handle Githyanki invaders (if such a group ever wanted to be invaders instead of raiders). They have been made strong by the constant struggles against all of the internal would-be overlords and doomsday bringers. Competition and struggle has bred the strongest of populations, and that's why there's no cat-swinging there without hitting a demigod. At least that's my take

- M

[Vhaidara]

I couldn't agree any less with this. There are as close as makes any difference to infinite numbers of githyanki - an infinite number, scattered across an infinite expanse. Travel for as many lifetimes as you like, in any directions: Right there, the githyanki will be.

Citation that living on an infinite plane means there's an infinite number of githyanki? Or even a large number? Because you seem to be making a very large assumption there with no basis in reality. Either that or the basis is basically that because the DM will throw an ogre at you whichever direction you go from town then the material plane has infinite ogres.The infinite astral plane is home to the githyanki, it is not made of githyanki.

[Kaptin Keen]

Citation that living on an infinite plane means there's an infinite number of githyanki? Or even a large number? Because you seem to be making a very large assumption there with no basis in reality. Either that or the basis is basically that because the DM will throw an ogre at you whichever direction you go from town then the material plane has infinite ogres.The infinite astral plane is home to the githyanki, it is not made of githyanki.

Are you ... like, actually serious? Do you think this is an equation? Is this a wiki entry? Are you some sort of official fluff police?

Githyanki are the de-facto masters of the astral plane - like humans are the de-facto masters of the prime, or the githzerai are the defacto masters of Limbo, and modrones are the masters of their plane. And you can't make a Tower of Babel statement, 'well, with what we know about the spread of species, the world is at most 6000 years old.' They have teleport, and magical spaceships.

But you can chose to disagree, and you're welcome to it. What I really don't agree with is the condescending tone when someone has a different point of view than yours. So as far as I'm concerned, this conversation ends here.

[LibraryOgre]

Githyanki are the de-facto masters of the astral plane - like humans are the de-facto masters of the prime, or the githzerai are the defacto masters of Limbo, and modrones are the masters of their plane.

I wouldn't say that, really, ANY of that is true, except for the modrons.

Humans are a populous mortal species on the Prime, but they're not the masters of it. The Githzerai are no where NEAR the masters of Limbo... the closest thing to that is the slaad. And the Githyanki are not the masters of the Astral Plane... they're a populous species, but they're a mote in the vastness. I mean, there are dead gods floating out there, unknown by any... the githyanki are powerful in their numbers, but they're not the Masters of the Astral Plane in any sense of the word.

[Beleriphon]

Are you ... like, actually serious? Do you think this is an equation? Is this a wiki entry? Are you some sort of official fluff police?

Githyanki are the de-facto masters of the astral plane - like humans are the de-facto masters of the prime, or the githzerai are the defacto masters of Limbo, and modrones are the masters of their plane. And you can't make a Tower of Babel statement, 'well, with what we know about the spread of species, the world is at most 6000 years old.' They have teleport, and magical spaceships.

But you can chose to disagree, and you're welcome to it. What I really don't agree with is the condescending tone when someone has a different point of view than yours. So as far as I'm concerned, this conversation ends here.

I think its more that the going lore bits for the Githyanki since late AD&D 1E has been they are ruled from the body of a dead god floating in the Astral. Their rule is a the Vlakith the Lich Queen that kills any Githyanki that ever gets powerful enough to potentially usurp her rule. I've always read that as a large, but not infinite, number of Githyanki. In theory our own universe is infinite, that doesn't mean that there are an infinite number of humans.