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  1. - Top - End - #31
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    Default Re: Planewalking – a guide for bending time and space

    Hmm, if it's not there already you might want to include a note on the awesome transportative powers of the Wish spell.

    It's only overkill until it isn't.

    Like for getting a friendly out of antimagic or timelocked space.
    Or for getting into warded space.

  2. - Top - End - #32
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    OldWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Planewalking – a guide for bending time and space

    Quote Originally Posted by unseenmage View Post
    Hmm, if it's not there already you might want to include a note on the awesome transportative powers of the Wish spell.

    It's only overkill until it isn't.

    Like for getting a friendly out of antimagic or timelocked space.
    Or for getting into warded space.
    "There is no kill like overkill" indeed.

    I think you could theoretically get into an antimagic or dimensionally locked space - or out of a D-locked area, but not a dead-magic/antimagic space, as you seem to need an explicit clause for that, like Invoke Magic. But, then, that's an interesting idea for when people are anchoring/locking you.

  3. - Top - End - #33
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    ElfRangerGuy

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    Default Re: Planewalking – a guide for bending time and space

    I was promised the secret to ultimate planeswalking!

    I demand a refund!

    TL;DR: I wax lyrical about esoteric aspects of planar travel lore, and toward the end I make a mechanical contribution to the thread you've missed. (Skip to the red part if you're not interested in the "waxy" bits.)

    But seriously, while you cover the mechanical parts well enough I feel you missed an opportunity to expand on the subtleties of planeswalking.

    First of all, not even a single mention about the true secret of planeswalking. For shame!
    For reference: Manual of the Planes, Pandemonium, Cocytus, Harmonica.

    Second, no mention of the concept of planar geometry.
    Higher dimensional geometry is an arcane topic even by nerd standards, and not in the D&D sense (any mathematicians/topologists in da house?). Having even a rudimentary intuition for working with higher dimensions is, I suspect, not something the lay-reader is likely to possess. So, if you don't want your brain to melt, you are completely justified in skipping the next couple paragraphs. If you are brave, or foolish enough however, read on!
    It is also not something that is given good treatment by the rules, although to my significant surprise when I was first getting into the wider D&D cosmology, it is given some treatment, even if it's so damn basic it creates more confusion than clarity. The impenetrability of the topic is likely why it wasn't developed further.

    But establishing a proper geometry can be key in how one navigates a setting's planar landscape. What you can do and can't do, where you can do it, etc.

    We'll start with the basics laid out in the Manual of the Planes.
    Planes can be coterminous and coexistent:
    Coterminous: The planes touch each other. At the points where they touch travel is possible. Think of a pair of spheres touching. Coterminous means being coexistent only in certain points.
    Coexistent: The planes overlap each other. Coexistent means being coterminous in a non-null set of neighbouring points. There exist 3 possible types of relationships in this case.

    Injective coexistent(every-1-to-not-every-other-1): Where travel is possible from the smaller plane to the larger plane anywhere on the smaller plane, but not the other way around. This means there are places on the larger plane that do not have a corresponding point on the smaller plane.
    Surjective coexistent(many-to-1): Multiple points on the larger plane correspond to a single point on the smaller plane. Travel is always possible between these planes, however not all points of the larger plane can be gotten to from the smaller.
    Bijective coexistent(every-1-to-every-other-1): The planes are essentially the exact same size and all points on one have a direct correspondence to the other.
    These relationships can also be mixed within a single plane (or pair of planes) - one local region might be bijective, a different local region might be surjective. Are these relationships static? If point A links to point B today, does it still link to point B tomorrow?

    You might also consider if a single point of contact is enough to create a traversable link between two planes. In a case where the answer is "no" there's some further considerations(not to mention further blurring the line between coterminous and coexistent):

    - What is the minimum overlap needed to create a traversable link? Does the minimum depend on external factors? Creature size going through? Intrinsic planar properties? Neighbouring effects?
    - Can both types of mechanics coexist? Is a point contact enough for nagivating between one set of planes, but not enough between another?
    - What are the consequenses for trying to use an unstable link? And failing?

    This is cool for the mathsier nerds because (apart from being interesting) it can help us make create a more unique and consistent setting and a lot of interesting and novel challenges and puzzles for players.
    For example, you could create a 4 dimensional maze, by having a normal 3d maze that spans multiple planes.
    For reference: https://puzzling.stackexchange.com/q...-maze-creation
    For example, you could create a maze that spans the material, ethereal and astral plane, like so:
    Spoiler: 3x3x3x3 maze
    Show



    There is of course, the matter of securing the maze against bypass by perspicacious adventurers with access to teleport or similar effects. This is where my mechanical contribution to this thread comes in:
    Stuff of substance(get it?): There's a very obscure special material called Solid positive energy found in the high-level adventure Bastion of Broken Souls. Any space enclosed by this material is impenetrable to any sort of teleportation or divination magic, but the effect does not extend past the material itself. Therefore it works like a cage for planar travel.
    Other ideas I've had are weird puzzle-like heists, except in higher dimensions, limiting planar travel to planar gateways, which has setting-level implications, logically consistent ways to kill tippyverse mechanics, multi-dimensional palaces, multi-dimensional creatures, creative twists on the classic portable hole/bag of holding warhead, curses involving planar geometry (e.g. cursing you to exist in multiple planes - your head might be on the material, your legs on the shadow plane, your torso on the plane of fire), general sci-fi stuff like wormholes, warp space, etc.
    Last edited by martixy; 2019-03-20 at 09:35 PM.

  4. - Top - End - #34
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    GnomePirate

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    Default Re: Planewalking – a guide for bending time and space

    Quote Originally Posted by martixy View Post
    I was promised the secret to ultimate planeswalking!

    I demand a refund!

    TL;DR: I wax lyrical about esoteric aspects of planar travel lore, and toward the end I make a mechanical contribution to the thread you've missed. (Skip to the red part if you're not interested in the "waxy" bits.)

    But seriously, while you cover the mechanical parts well enough I feel you missed an opportunity to expand on the subtleties of planeswalking.

    First of all, not even a single mention about the true secret of planeswalking. For shame!
    For reference: Manual of the Planes, Pandemonium, Cocytus, Harmonica.

    Second, no mention of the concept of planar geometry.
    Higher dimensional geometry is an arcane topic even by nerd standards, and not in the D&D sense (any mathematicians/topologists in da house?). Having even a rudimentary intuition for working with higher dimensions is, I suspect, not something the lay-reader is likely to possess. So, if you don't want your brain to melt, you are completely justified in skipping the next couple paragraphs. If you are brave, or foolish enough however, read on!
    It is also not something that is given good treatment by the rules, although to my significant surprise when I was first getting into the wider D&D cosmology, it is given some treatment, even if it's so damn basic it creates more confusion than clarity. The impenetrability of the topic is likely why it wasn't developed further.

    But establishing a proper geometry can be key in how one navigates a setting's planar landscape. What you can do and can't do, where you can do it, etc.

    We'll start with the basics laid out in the Manual of the Planes.
    Planes can be coterminous and coexistent:
    Coterminous: The planes touch each other. At the points where they touch travel is possible. Think of a pair of spheres touching. Coterminous means being coexistent only in certain points.
    Coexistent: The planes overlap each other. Coexistent means being coterminous in a non-null set of neighbouring points. There exist 3 possible types of relationships in this case.

    Injective coexistent(every-1-to-not-every-other-1): Where travel is possible from the smaller plane to the larger plane anywhere on the smaller plane, but not the other way around. This means there are places on the larger plane that do not have a corresponding point on the smaller plane.
    Surjective coexistent(many-to-1): Multiple points on the larger plane correspond to a single point on the smaller plane. Travel is always possible between these planes, however not all points of the larger plane can be gotten to from the smaller.
    Bijective coexistent(every-1-to-every-other-1): The planes are essentially the exact same size and all points on one have a direct correspondence to the other.
    These relationships can also be mixed within a single plane (or pair of planes) - one local region might be bijective, a different local region might be surjective.

    You might also consider if a single point of contact is enough to create a traversable link between two planes. In a case where the answer is "no" there's some further considerations(not to mention further blurring the line between coterminous and coexistent):

    - What is the minimum overlap needed to create a traversable link? Does the minimum depend on external factors? Creature size going through? Intrinsic planar properties? Neighbouring effects?
    - Can both types of mechanics coexist? Is a point contact enough for nagivating between one set of planes, but not enough between another?
    - What are the consequenses for trying to use an unstable link? And failing?

    This is cool for the mathsier nerds because (apart from being interesting) it can help us make create a more unique and consistent setting and a lot of interesting and novel challenges and puzzles for players.
    For example, you could create a 4 dimensional maze, by having a normal 3d maze that spans multiple planes.
    For reference: https://puzzling.stackexchange.com/q...-maze-creation
    For example, you could create a maze that spans the material, ethereal and astral plane, like so:
    Spoiler: 3x3x3x3 maze
    Show



    There is of course, the matter of securing the maze against bypass by perspicacious adventurers with access to teleport or similar effects. This is where my mechanical contribution to this thread comes in:
    Stuff of substance(get it?): There's a very obscure special material called Solid positive energy found in the high-level adventure Bastion of Broken Souls. Any space enclosed by this material is impenetrable to any sort of teleportation or divination magic, but the effect does not extend past the material itself. Therefore it works like a cage for planar travel.
    Other ideas I've had are weird puzzle-like heists, except in higher dimensions, limiting planar travel to planar gateways, which has setting-level implications, logically consistent ways to kill tippyverse mechanics, multi-dimensional palaces, multi-dimensional creatures, creative twists on the classic portable hole/bag of holding warhead, curses involving planar geometry (e.g. cursing you to exist in multiple planes - your head might be on the material, your legs on the shadow plane, your torso on the plane of fire), general sci-fi stuff like wormholes, warp space, etc.
    Okay, that covers planar geometry, but the question suddenly becomes how this is applied practically. For instance, by what I can gather, the Material and Astral planes have an Injective Coexistence, the Shadow Plane has a Surjective Coexistence(This is the most logical assumption based simply on the nature of the Shadow Walk spell), and the Ethereal Plane would be a Bijective Coexistence.
    I can tell, at a glance, that what this results in is being able to cross certain thresholds by quickly popping into the Ethereal Plane and back, being able to cross large distances by jumping into the Shadow Plane and jumping back out immediately, choosing a separate location as your exit point, or being able to travel beyond the boundaries of the Material Plane by jumping into the Astral Realm.
    How would you most efficiently take advantage of the Surjective Plane's multiple points of relation? Is there a way to use one portal and choose between all available points?
    What method would be best to allow for you to choose, say, a corridor that can go into either the Bijective Plane or the Material, so that you could have one building with two wildly different layouts, depending on how you navigate it?
    I actually asked a question relating to an Injective Plane earlier, and got a good response from none other than the author here on it, so I can already practically apply it to some degree, but I have to ask--What other plans would you have for an Injective Plane? Would you link several planes together with it, using the Injective Plane as a bridge between the two?
    Could you go Base Plane -> Injective ->Surjective relative to Injective ->Injective -> Alternate Base Plane? If so, what's the most efficient method of doing so?

  5. - Top - End - #35
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    ElfRangerGuy

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    Default Re: Planewalking – a guide for bending time and space

    Quote Originally Posted by Thedez View Post
    ~
    The practical application is that... well, as you noted, certain spells and rules already imply certain relationships. But you might wish to change that relationship to what suits you.
    For example, Teleportation says:
    Teleportation is instantaneous travel through the Astral Plane. Anything that blocks astral travel also blocks teleportation.
    You might wanna change that to suit your geometry better. So the practical application is that knowing how things work, allows you to change them, while remaining consistent, and offers a framework within which you can get creative with the mechanics, without pulling things outta your ass.

    In general you ask a lot of questions, the answers to which you should be giving yourself.
    I merely present a primer on how the planes might work, and not being covered by RAW, it is up to the creator of a setting to figure out how his planes work.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thedez View Post
    Is there a way to use one portal and choose between all available points?
    Onto this specifically: The answer strictly mathematically is NO. Of course you can discard math in favour of plot reasons and make it work. Up to you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thedez View Post
    What other plans would you have for an Injective Plane? Would you link several planes together with it, using the Injective Plane as a bridge between the two?
    Could you go Base Plane -> Injective ->Surjective relative to Injective ->Injective -> Alternate Base Plane? If so, what's the most efficient method of doing so?
    These are nonsensical to me. You must elaborate if you wish an answer.

  6. - Top - End - #36
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    GnomePirate

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    Default Re: Planewalking – a guide for bending time and space

    Quote Originally Posted by martixy View Post
    These are nonsensical to me. You must elaborate if you wish an answer.
    Hmm. Maybe I'm not understanding it quite right.
    Let's go back to Surjective Planes. So, with these Planes, how does one determine where, exactly, they exit if one point in space is linked to multiple points on the larger Plane?

  7. - Top - End - #37
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    ElfRangerGuy

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    Default Re: Planewalking – a guide for bending time and space

    Quote Originally Posted by Thedez View Post
    Hmm. Maybe I'm not understanding it quite right.
    Let's go back to Surjective Planes. So, with these Planes, how does one determine where, exactly, they exit if one point in space is linked to multiple points on the larger Plane?
    Oh, in that sense. Things could get a bit squirrely here, but it's essentially arbitrary. If you're not opposed to parsing mathematical lingo.

    P.S. It gives me an idea: One could conceive of a portal that can shred things that go through it, because they exit from points that are further apart than their entry points. Conversely, there could be ones that squish things or poke holes in things.
    Last edited by martixy; 2019-03-20 at 11:33 PM.

  8. - Top - End - #38
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    Default Re: Planewalking – a guide for bending time and space

    Quote Originally Posted by martixy View Post
    Oh, in that sense. Things could get a bit squirrely here, but it's essentially arbitrary. If you're not opposed to parsing mathematical lingo.
    Okay, yeah. That answers it. So basically, stick to regular Astral Travel, no cheating and going to a higher plane to pick your destination.
    That might explain why Plane Shift has such a big miss chance, come to think of it.
    EDIT: Oh yeah, I see what you've saying. Because you enter the portal and your parts don't exit at, say, Points A, B, and C, but you have one part in point A, one in point N, and another in point Y? Or everything ends up being part of point A?


    On an unrelated note, does the Guide mention the class Lord of Tides anywhere? The capstone is a mobile two-way Portal you can use twice per day to go to any elemental plane you've visited. Bard 6 seems like it could make that a pretty handy trick.
    Last edited by Thedez; 2019-03-20 at 11:40 PM.

  9. - Top - End - #39
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    OldWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Planewalking – a guide for bending time and space

    Quote Originally Posted by martixy View Post

    snip
    *Screams in fanboy*

    Mind if I add your coverage of planar geometry as a subsection?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thedez View Post
    On an unrelated note, does the Guide mention the class Lord of Tides anywhere? The capstone is a mobile two-way Portal you can use twice per day to go to any elemental plane you've visited. Bard 6 seems like it could make that a pretty handy trick.
    In fact it did not. Nice find there!

  10. - Top - End - #40
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    Default Re: Planewalking – a guide for bending time and space

    Quote Originally Posted by Chalhubard View Post
    *Screams in fanboy*

    Mind if I add your coverage of planar geometry as a subsection?
    Go ahead, iz why I wrote it.

  11. - Top - End - #41
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    Default Re: Planewalking – a guide for bending time and space

    Quote Originally Posted by Chalhubard View Post
    In fact it did not. Nice find there!
    I might end up barraging you with finds. I'm trying to find a prestige class to fill out my Astral Space Pirate build, but none of the 10-level prestiges I'm looking at are really jumping out at me with flavorful abilities.

    EDIT: Upon closer inspection, might I recommend adding the Dragon Ascendant class to your prestige class list? It's not a *direct* analogue to teleportation or planar effects in general, but...Well. The capstone, by RAW, makes you a Quasi-Deity. Which means that, in theory, you now have direct control over a Divinely Morphic trait of a plane...Say, a plane made with Genesis, by yourself?
    One where you might, perhaps, form an Outsider from, manifesting a Planar Bubble so that you might wreak havoc on the surroundings?
    Last edited by Thedez; 2019-03-21 at 03:24 PM.

  12. - Top - End - #42
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    Default Re: Planewalking – a guide for bending time and space

    Quote Originally Posted by martixy View Post
    Go ahead, iz why I wrote it.
    Much obliged!

    Quote Originally Posted by Thedez View Post
    I might end up barraging you with finds. I'm trying to find a prestige class to fill out my Astral Space Pirate build, but none of the 10-level prestiges I'm looking at are really jumping out at me with flavorful abilities.

    EDIT: Upon closer inspection, might I recommend adding the Dragon Ascendant class to your prestige class list? It's not a *direct* analogue to teleportation or planar effects in general, but...Well. The capstone, by RAW, makes you a Quasi-Deity. Which means that, in theory, you now have direct control over a Divinely Morphic trait of a plane...Say, a plane made with Genesis, by yourself?
    One where you might, perhaps, form an Outsider from, manifesting a Planar Bubble so that you might wreak havoc on the surroundings?
    By all means, keep em coming. Are you looking for a caster-oriented PrC?

    On the Dragon Ascendant's capstone, don't think it'd get much play apart from Ilhitid Savant (which, in its own right, might not see much play either ). You can, however, manipulate Divinely Morphic planes with the Planar Perinarch (Drd 9, Sor/Wiz 9) spell. Which, yes, is 9th level spell, but, then what would one expect from an effect like this.

    As for the Lord of the Tides, since you can create a portal to anywhere within the Inner Planes, you can probably access an Earth Node (Underdark p.49) at all times. If you are committing 10 character levels to LotT, a couple of feats wouldn't hurt. Say Node Spellcasting and Metanode Spell (Underdark p.26) for +9 CL and 9 free metamagic levels.

  13. - Top - End - #43
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    Default Re: Planewalking – a guide for bending time and space

    Quote Originally Posted by Chalhubard View Post
    Much obliged!



    By all means, keep em coming. Are you looking for a caster-oriented PrC?

    On the Dragon Ascendant's capstone, don't think it'd get much play apart from Ilhitid Savant (which, in its own right, might not see much play either ). You can, however, manipulate Divinely Morphic planes with the Planar Perinarch (Drd 9, Sor/Wiz 9) spell. Which, yes, is 9th level spell, but, then what would one expect from an effect like this.

    As for the Lord of the Tides, since you can create a portal to anywhere within the Inner Planes, you can probably access an Earth Node (Underdark p.49) at all times. If you are committing 10 character levels to LotT, a couple of feats wouldn't hurt. Say Node Spellcasting and Metanode Spell (Underdark p.26) for +9 CL and 9 free metamagic levels.
    Okay, so yeah, I *was* looking for a caster-oriented PrC, but honestly, I think you just sold Lord of the Tides to me. My only question is now, what would you recommend for getting, say, gargantuan portals? I'm planning on using planar sails on an airship to allow it to be used for planar adventures(This is a planes-heavy campaign,) but I'd like something thematically cooler.

    Aah, that's clever. So I'm seeing a Bard 6/Seeker of Song 3/Lord of Tides 1/Sublime Chord 1/Lord of Tides 9 build. Alternate Source Spell or other Divine Casting Prereq meeting tactic of your choice.
    It gives you access to almost every single planar tool available to wizards, plus the Bard ACF, plus potentially your own Node 2/day with which you can put DMM Clerics to shame, and some other nifty tools.
    EDIT: OR MAYBE I can remember I need 3rd level spells and cut the Seeker of Song levels entirely.
    Last edited by Thedez; 2019-03-21 at 05:29 PM.

  14. - Top - End - #44
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    Default Re: Planewalking – a guide for bending time and space

    Oh yeah, a word to the wise, the dead magic zone IS NOT stronger or somehow more potent than an antimagic zone spell.

    In fact according to the Manual of the Planes, and IIRC it was copypasta-ed into Planar Handbook, dead magic zones inherit from antimagic zones.

    So tricks that stymie antimagic zones should also work on dead magic areas unless they state otherwise.

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    Default Re: Planewalking – a guide for bending time and space

    So, I have some good news and some bad news.
    The GOOD news is that Lord of Tides ability is not actually only usable twice/day. It's an item creation capstone, which is...Weirder. The portals that the Lord of Tides makes are usable 2/day. This means that, if you have the GP, you can potentially have as many as, say, six of these portals, and you can hand them out to your friends if you so chose, because once the portal's made, the only requirement is that you possess it.

    Now for the...BAD news. It's not cheap. It's technically 10,000 GP more expensive than a stationary portal of the same sort, totaling to 30,000 GP. Moreover, it takes forever to make. 2 months if it's anywhere but the Elemental Plane of Water, but a mere 1 month and 15,000 GP if it is to the Elemental Plane of Water.

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    Default Re: Planewalking – a guide for bending time and space

    Quote Originally Posted by Thedez View Post
    Okay, so yeah, I *was* looking for a caster-oriented PrC, but honestly, I think you just sold Lord of the Tides to me. My only question is now, what would you recommend for getting, say, gargantuan portals? I'm planning on using planar sails on an airship to allow it to be used for planar adventures(This is a planes-heavy campaign,) but I'd like something thematically cooler.

    Aah, that's clever. So I'm seeing a Bard 6/Seeker of Song 3/Lord of Tides 1/Sublime Chord 1/Lord of Tides 9 build. Alternate Source Spell or other Divine Casting Prereq meeting tactic of your choice.
    It gives you access to almost every single planar tool available to wizards, plus the Bard ACF, plus potentially your own Node 2/day with which you can put DMM Clerics to shame, and some other nifty tools.
    EDIT: OR MAYBE I can remember I need 3rd level spells and cut the Seeker of Song levels entirely.
    Planar Touchstone for the rescue. Snag Planning Domain and you even get your feat back as Extend Spell. This kills off the divine casting prereq and the 3rd level spells prereq.

    Quote Originally Posted by unseenmage View Post
    Oh yeah, a word to the wise, the dead magic zone IS NOT stronger or somehow more potent than an antimagic zone spell.

    In fact according to the Manual of the Planes, and IIRC it was copypasta-ed into Planar Handbook, dead magic zones inherit from antimagic zones.

    So tricks that stymie antimagic zones should also work on dead magic areas unless they state otherwise.
    True, most methods actually focus on blocking the emanation - total cover, earth gliding (which actually benefits from total cover, but whatever), etc. Dead Magic works around those, hence the particular section to deal with it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thedez View Post
    So, I have some good news and some bad news.
    The GOOD news is that Lord of Tides ability is not actually only usable twice/day. It's an item creation capstone, which is...Weirder. The portals that the Lord of Tides makes are usable 2/day. This means that, if you have the GP, you can potentially have as many as, say, six of these portals, and you can hand them out to your friends if you so chose, because once the portal's made, the only requirement is that you possess it.

    Now for the...BAD news. It's not cheap. It's technically 10,000 GP more expensive than a stationary portal of the same sort, totaling to 30,000 GP. Moreover, it takes forever to make. 2 months if it's anywhere but the Elemental Plane of Water, but a mere 1 month and 15,000 GP if it is to the Elemental Plane of Water.
    Timeless planes, mate. I think they're worth the hassle if you consider the built-in mobility.

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    Default Re: Planewalking – a guide for bending time and space

    Quote Originally Posted by Chalhubard View Post
    Planar Touchstone for the rescue. Snag Planning Domain and you even get your feat back as Extend Spell. This kills off the divine casting prereq and the 3rd level spells prereq.



    True, most methods actually focus on blocking the emanation - total cover, earth gliding (which actually benefits from total cover, but whatever), etc. Dead Magic works around those, hence the particular section to deal with it.



    Timeless planes, mate. I think they're worth the hassle if you consider the built-in mobility.
    Oh, I agree. And...Wait, wait, wait. Question.
    What...What happens if a Gatecrasher opens a Portal up after it's daily uses are expended?

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    Default Re: Planewalking – a guide for bending time and space

    Quote Originally Posted by Thedez View Post
    Oh, I agree. And...Wait, wait, wait. Question.
    What...What happens if a Gatecrasher opens a Portal up after it's daily uses are expended?
    Oh, you precious you!

    Spoiler: Open Portal
    Show
    At 3rd level, a gatecrasher’s understanding of planar forces extends to the workings of magic portals, such that he may force them open without the correct device, spell, or key. (...) Opening a portal takes 1 round of work and a successful check. It is a full-round action. The portal remains open for 1d4+1 rounds afterward (emphasis added).


    Now, that is a good work around the activation limit/day. Say, Bard 6/Gatecrasher 3/Lord of the Tides 1/Sublime Chord 1/Lord of the Tides 9? I'll set that up in the suggested builds, brilliant, Thedez!
    Last edited by Chalhubard; 2019-03-22 at 05:45 AM.

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    Default Re: Planewalking – a guide for bending time and space

    How does not needing a key bypass a uses-per-day limit?

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    Default Re: Planewalking – a guide for bending time and space

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Adventurer View Post
    How does not needing a key bypass a uses-per-day limit?
    You can be accused of semantics shenanigans, but:

    Spoiler: Manual of the Planes, p.22
    Show
    Sometimes a portal has specific limitations on its use. These limitations are commonly called keys. There can be any number of keys on a portal, and the portal’s creators usually set the keys when they create the portal.


    The key being the passage of time. As in "as long as you have not used this portal more than twice in the last 24-hour period, you are eligible to enter". But, hey, I'm good at dodging DMGs thrown in my general direction.

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    Orc in the Playground
     
    Flumph

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    Default Re: Planewalking – a guide for bending time and space

    On your incarnum section, you might want to add that planar chasuble can also, (if bound to the soul chakra) mimic gate 1/week, but only to a plane which has an alignment trait that matches yours (so if you have a neutral component, you can go to a lot of planes, and if you don't, you can go to just a couple).
    Chaos is I.
    Evil is Me.
    Good is Us.
    Law is We.

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    GnomePirate

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    Default Re: Planewalking – a guide for bending time and space

    Quote Originally Posted by Chalhubard View Post
    Oh, you precious you!

    Spoiler: Open Portal
    Show
    At 3rd level, a gatecrasher’s understanding of planar forces extends to the workings of magic portals, such that he may force them open without the correct device, spell, or key. (...) Opening a portal takes 1 round of work and a successful check. It is a full-round action. The portal remains open for 1d4+1 rounds afterward (emphasis added).


    Now, that is a good work around the activation limit/day. Say, Bard 6/Gatecrasher 3/Lord of the Tides 1/Sublime Chord 1/Lord of the Tides 9? I'll set that up in the suggested builds, brilliant, Thedez!
    Oh, I do come up with some clever tricks every now and then.

  23. - Top - End - #53
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: Planewalking – a guide for bending time and space

    Classes:
    Sha'ir (Dragon Compendium): At 9th level, a sha'ir can plane shift once per day, as the spell, to any of the elemental planes or from any elemental plane to the Material Plane. At 15th level, the sha'ir may use this ability twice per day, and at 18th level, the sha'ir may use this ability at will. Caster level is equal to the sha'ir's class level.


    Monsters:
    Nightmare have Astral Projection at will


    Spells:
    Mirror Walking (Cleric 5, Sorcerer/Wizard 7; Manual of the Planes): You or the one you touch may pass through any mirror or reflecting surface of sufficient size onto the Plane of Mirrors.

    Finger of Expulsion (Celebrant 7; Dragon #330):
    With a gesture that roughly traces the silhouette of your intended target you attempt to push them out of reality and into the ravenous belly of the Far Realm. For most creatures, this means death as they are digested into their new environment (either quickly and violently, or slowly and painfully). The target is entitled to a will save to resist being banished from reality. Should they succeed, they take 5d6 points of bludgeoning, slashing, and piercing damage as they are only partially transported. Should the target fail their save, a slight gooey residue of them is left behind, which is sufficient to form the foundation of a resurrection spell.

    Cerebrotic Escalation: You can attempt to push two creatures within 30' of each other into the Far Realm. However, if you attempt this escalation, you must succeed on a will save at the same DC or you are instead affected by the spell.

    Prestige Classes:
    • Defiant (Planar Handbook): if a Defiant was - pre-PrC - a Cleric with 9 or more levels, he gets Plane Shift SLA 3/day
    • Divine Agent (Manual of the Planes): at 5th level - Plane Shift to their deity's home plane (1/day); at 7th - Plane Shift to any plane (1/day), and at 10th - Gate to their deity's home plane (1/day)
    • Elocater: At 6th level, an elocater learns both psionic teleport and psionic plane shift. These powers are in addition to any powers the elocater normally learns by advancing a level. The elocater treats these powers as if they were 3rd-level powers on her class list. This means, among other things, that manifesting these powers costs 5 power points.
    • Githyanki Racial Class (Complete Psionic): at 9th level - Psionic Plane Shift PLA (1/day, ML=HD/2)
    • Hellbreaker (Fiendish Codex II): At 10th level, you can use plane shift as an immediate action once per day. This ability functions like the spell, but it has a range of personal and a target of you.
    • Singer of Concordance (Races of the Dragon): Sphere of Concordance at the capstone

  24. - Top - End - #54
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Planewalking – a guide for bending time and space

    Sha'ir has a Gen familiar with planeshift at will as a spell like (for assume supernatural ability) but also he can bring his belongings, including anything you've stuffed yourself into for planar travel to the elemental planes as early as level 1-3
    Quote Originally Posted by Zaq View Post
    I feel like telling the ghost of Gary Gygax to hold your beer is a good way to suddenly stop being the GM, but I have to admit that this would probably be remarkably effective. At what, I dunno, but effective.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zombulian View Post
    I am continually astounded by how new you are here in contrast to how impressive your mind is.

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    Default Re: Planewalking – a guide for bending time and space

    So portals in and of themselves technically aren't useful for Telflammar Shadowlords since they aren't technically teleportation effects, but portal spells are another matter, right? Any way we could build a Telflammar Shadowlord that uses their move-action to rapidly move between two portals and hit an opponent each time they exit?

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    Default Re: Planewalking – a guide for bending time and space

    This is a wonderful resource. I haven't quite had enough time to really get down into the weeds of it... but I thought I'd mention an interesting demiplane that you might want to add somewhere... not sure where. Maybe a "Weirdo Crystal New-Age Psychotropic Stuff" should get it's own section?

    The Demiplane of Ectoplasm.

    Notably, it contains Canath trees, which in turn produce Canath fruit, which are essentially free cognizance crystals.

    *blink* *blink*

    Cognizance crystals? Yeah, okay, I don't really understand much about how psionics work either, but they're free bonus Power Points (PP) that you can tap into. The older the fruit, the more PP you get. A Canath fruit that ripens for 9 months provides 17 PP, which is enough to activate a 9th-level psionic power.

    Also, I'm not sure if you've addressed all the different things you can do with the Planar Touchstone/Touchstone feat. If you want to "borrow" anything from my Planar Touchstone post from way back when... please feel free to grab whatever you need.

    Something else... not sure if you want to include this, but a Greater Rod of Wonder could possibly be used for planar travel.

    And... ok, this last one is a stretch, but you can use a Chaos Flask (100 GP) to create a bit of Flux Slime. This is a... plant/ooze/mold... sorta? That generates an anti-magic field, and also explodes if you do anything to it, like wiggle it or expose it to sunlight. If it does explode, it could give you a permanent mutation. However, while it's not exploding... it's a physical indicator of a leak between the planes, which is similar to a planar breach or planar portal of sorts. So if you've got an ability that allows you to redirect or manipulate where a portal goes... maybe you could exploit this for planar travel purposes?

  27. - Top - End - #57
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Planewalking – a guide for bending time and space

    Flux slime burst effects are as the spell so I don't see that it would be permanent unless the spell is.

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    Default Re: Planewalking – a guide for bending time and space

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Adventurer View Post
    Flux slime burst effects are as the spell so I don't see that it would be permanent unless the spell is.
    "All creatures caught in this burst are subject to some random and permanent transmutation effect." (Emphasis added.)

    However, the only effect that is somewhat beneficial would be the iron body, mostly for meatbag-types. If "permanent" means that is the duration of the effect, then maybe you can dispel it.

    Kind of a disappointing list of transmutation effects, really... If it happened in a game, I'd be tempted to break out some old Gamma World books. What's the point of mutation if you can't get laser beam eyes or telepathy with mollusks?

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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Planewalking – a guide for bending time and space

    Player's Guide to Faerun 42 has the feat Portal Master which reduces portal creation costs amongst other stuff. It seemingly explicitly allows making portals, since it says, "When you build a portal..." and doesn't require any other 'portal feats.
    Quote Originally Posted by GPuzzle View Post
    And I do agree that the right answer to the magic/mundane problem is to make everyone badass.
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    If you're of a philosophical bent, the powergamer is a great example of Heidegger's modern technological man, who treats a game's mechanics as a standing reserve of undifferentiated resources that are to be used for his goals.
    My Complete Tome of Battle Maneuver/Stance/Class Overhaul

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    Default Re: Planewalking – a guide for bending time and space

    Quote Originally Posted by Feantar View Post
    On your incarnum section, you might want to add that planar chasuble can also, (if bound to the soul chakra) mimic gate 1/week, but only to a plane which has an alignment trait that matches yours (so if you have a neutral component, you can go to a lot of planes, and if you don't, you can go to just a couple).
    Yeah, downside is being able to open the soul chakra. Theoretically you could do it with a single feat (Magic of Incarnum p. 213), but it is... well... an epic feat

    Quote Originally Posted by ShurikVch View Post

    Mirror Walking (Cleric 5, Sorcerer/Wizard 7; Manual of the Planes): You or the one you touch may pass through any mirror or reflecting surface of sufficient size onto the Plane of Mirrors.
    Finger of Expulsion (Celebrant 7; Dragon #330):

    [*]Divine Agent (Manual of the Planes): at 5th level - Plane Shift to their deity's home plane (1/day); at 7th - Plane Shift to any plane (1/day), and at 10th - Gate to their deity's home plane (1/day)[*]Hellbreaker (Fiendish Codex II): At 10th level, you can use plane shift as an immediate action once per day. This ability functions like the spell, but it has a range of personal and a target of you.[*]Singer of Concordance (Races of the Dragon): Sphere of Concordance at the capstone[/LIST]
    These are some nice finds! Will update to include them. Thanks!

    Quote Originally Posted by Thedez View Post
    So portals in and of themselves technically aren't useful for Telflammar Shadowlords since they aren't technically teleportation effects, but portal spells are another matter, right? Any way we could build a Telflammar Shadowlord that uses their move-action to rapidly move between two portals and hit an opponent each time they exit?
    Not quite, Shadow Pounce explicitly states [teleportation] effects as its triggering condition, sadly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Darrin View Post
    This is a wonderful resource. I haven't quite had enough time to really get down into the weeds of it... but I thought I'd mention an interesting demiplane that you might want to add somewhere... not sure where. Maybe a "Weirdo Crystal New-Age Psychotropic Stuff" should get it's own section?

    The Demiplane of Ectoplasm.

    Notably, it contains Canath trees, which in turn produce Canath fruit, which are essentially free cognizance crystals.

    *blink* *blink*

    Cognizance crystals? Yeah, okay, I don't really understand much about how psionics work either, but they're free bonus Power Points (PP) that you can tap into. The older the fruit, the more PP you get. A Canath fruit that ripens for 9 months provides 17 PP, which is enough to activate a 9th-level psionic power.

    Also, I'm not sure if you've addressed all the different things you can do with the Planar Touchstone/Touchstone feat. If you want to "borrow" anything from my Planar Touchstone post from way back when... please feel free to grab whatever you need.

    Something else... not sure if you want to include this, but a Greater Rod of Wonder could possibly be used for planar travel.

    And... ok, this last one is a stretch, but you can use a Chaos Flask (100 GP) to create a bit of Flux Slime. This is a... plant/ooze/mold... sorta? That generates an anti-magic field, and also explodes if you do anything to it, like wiggle it or expose it to sunlight. If it does explode, it could give you a permanent mutation. However, while it's not exploding... it's a physical indicator of a leak between the planes, which is similar to a planar breach or planar portal of sorts. So if you've got an ability that allows you to redirect or manipulate where a portal goes... maybe you could exploit this for planar travel purposes?
    Thank you very much, sir! All brilliant suggestions, thanks for them. Mind if I link the handbook to your Touchstone compilation?

    Quote Originally Posted by Endarire View Post
    Player's Guide to Faerun 42 has the feat Portal Master which reduces portal creation costs amongst other stuff. It seemingly explicitly allows making portals, since it says, "When you build a portal..." and doesn't require any other 'portal feats.
    It even has a nice rider effect of allowing you to stabilize malfunctioning portals. Nice catch.

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