Unleash Your Inner Beast: A Moon Druid Guide (5e)

[Merudo]

FYI, when you polymorph or shapechange into a creature with legendary actions, per the MM legendary creature rules you don’t get to use the legendary actions. You DO get to use legendary resistances, if any.

Thank you. I knew about the Shapechange restriction on Legendary Actions but I had forgotten it also applies to Polymorph (the restriction appears in the Monster Manual Errata)

[TheUser]

In this case of the kobold do you assume that sunlight sensitivity carries over to your wild shape form?

[Zuras]

In this case of the kobold do you assume that sunlight sensitivity carries over to your wild shape form?

Since the Darkvision doesn’t carry over, few DMs will have the sunlight sensitivity carry over.

[TheUser]

Since the Darkvision doesn’t carry over, few DMs will have the sunlight sensitivity carry over.

My take on it is that Wildshape specifically points to retaining "the benefit" of any feature etc. etc. and sunlight sensitivity isn't a benefit.

With that in mind would you think that Kobold Moon Druids are one of the best moon druids?

[Zuras]

My take on it is that Wildshape specifically points to retaining "the benefit" of any feature etc. etc. and sunlight sensitivity isn't a benefit.

With that in mind would you think that Kobold Moon Druids are one of the best moon druids?

The pack tactics is nice at lower levels, but ultimately not as useful as stuff like the Ghostwise Halfling telepathy. No beast or elemental form does impressive damage compared to martials in Tier 2 and higher play, so your best tactics generally revolve around using concentration spells to enhance your tanking, not damaging via attacks.

[TheUser]

The pack tactics is nice at lower levels, but ultimately not as useful as stuff like the Ghostwise Halfling telepathy. No beast or elemental form does impressive damage compared to martials in Tier 2 and higher play, so your best tactics generally revolve around using concentration spells to enhance your tanking, not damaging via attacks.

It's to help make up for the reduced attack bonus with some forms.
Landing auto grapples and making good use of sentinel is how I utilize a good wildshape druid

[Zuras]

It's to help make up for the reduced attack bonus with some forms.
Landing auto grapples and making good use of sentinel is how I utilize a good wildshape druid

The only form that is really off the curve and needs help with the attack bonus is the Giant Scorpion at 9th level, in my experience. I’m sure the advantage would be helpful in many situations, but I’ve found most Deadly+ combats did not involve many actual attacks in beast form in practice, because the DM was always doing something crazy that meant a flying Brontosaurus, flaming water elemental or glowing death cloud was a better solution.

[Merudo]

The pack tactics is nice at lower levels, but ultimately not as useful as stuff like the Ghostwise Halfling telepathy. No beast or elemental form does impressive damage compared to martials in Tier 2 and higher play, so your best tactics generally revolve around using concentration spells to enhance your tanking, not damaging via attacks.

I agree damaging enemies is not usually very effective at Tier 2+ (exception: the CR2 Zealoraptor & the CR3 Scorpion).

However, some of the Beasts are pretty handy to inflict debuffs - the Giant Elk can knock prone, and the Giant Constrictor Snake can restrain.

That's very useful, and Pact Tactics helps making these abilities land.

Contrarily to you, I don't find Telepathy that valuable - the Giant Elk & the Elementals can all speak, and the other forms can use signs to communicate.

[Zuras]

Merudo,
I like your guide, but I think the spell discussion could use some extra detail, especially because the utility and scaling of different spells means their value varies widely as you advance in levels.

Case in point: At low levels, Flaming Sphere is far superior to Moonbeam in most situations, since moving it is a bonus action vs. moonbeam’s action. At higher levels, certainly by Tier 3, Moonbeam has become far superior because it scales better, deals radiant damage and doesn’t accidentally light things on fire. I’ve upcast Moonbeam as high as 8th level in desperate circumstances, and didn’t cast Flaming Sphere much at all after getting deep into Tier 2 play.

Conjure Animals has a similar curve—by 11th level I was using summoned creatures more as CC than damage.

Also, you should give the Korred much more love as a Conjure Fey target. It has a ranged attack and can actually fit in a dungeon hallway, while still also being capable of breaking the DMs story with it’s at-will Stone Shape.

“The passage is now blocked by an impassable pile of rubble”

“Ok, I summon a Korred and it Stone Shapes a tunnel through the rubble.”

“How many times can it do that?”

“At-will, so it can do about 15,000 cubic feet in the hour I have it summoned. It can also summon an Earth Elemental or Galeb Duhr to help.”

“Why did I agree to continue the campaign past level 11?”

[Merudo]

Case in point: At low levels, Flaming Sphere is far superior to Moonbeam in most situations, since moving it is a bonus action vs. moonbeam’s action. At higher levels, certainly by Tier 3, Moonbeam has become far superior because it scales better, deals radiant damage and doesn’t accidentally light things on fire. I’ve upcast Moonbeam as high as 8th level in desperate circumstances, and didn’t cast Flaming Sphere much at all after getting deep into Tier 2 play.

I'm not convinced by this argument.

First, Flaming Sphere does around 64% of the damage of a Moonbeam of the same spell level - I don't see how upcasting changes the relative value of the two spells.

Secondly, Radiant damage is nice, but the Constitution save isn't - the Dexterity save of Flaming Sphere is better.

Thirdly, the Action requirement to move the beam is crippling, especially for a Moon Druid. A lot of Wild Shape forms can restrain as an action (Giant Constrictor Snake, Water Elemental, Giant Crocodile, etc.), which not only prevent the target from moving out of the sphere, but also gives disadvantage to the Dexterity saving throw.

Also, you should give the Korred much more love as a Conjure Fey target.

Agreed.

[Zuras]

I'm not convinced by this argument.

First, Flaming Sphere does around 64% of the damage of a Moonbeam of the same spell level - I don't see how upcasting changes the relative value of the two spells.

Secondly, Radiant damage is nice, but the Constitution save isn't - the Dexterity save of Flaming Sphere is better.

Thirdly, the Action requirement to move the beam is crippling, especially for a Moon Druid. A lot of Wild Shape forms can restrain as an action (Giant Constrictor Snake, Water Elemental, Giant Crocodile, etc.), which not only prevent the target from moving out of the sphere, but also gives disadvantage to the Dexterity saving throw.

Do you regularly see Flaming Sphere used in Tier 3 play by Moon Druids? I stopped using it because far too many times it was useless. Moonbeam scales much better, it can actually be used on aerial targets, more nasty things fear radiant damage, and so many creatures are resistant to fire.

In practice, you use Moonbeam in situations where Conjure Animals is ineffective, and many creatures resistant to weapon damage also resist fire. Plus, grappling attacks make Moonbeam better, not worse. Once you grapple them, you can drag them into the Moonbeam for extra damage.

[Yunru]

I agree with Wizard's overall rating, but... consider this: Whalesinger.
Sure, it means you have to be (partially) elven, but Whalesong helps you keep concentration on whatever you cast before Whaleshaping, it increases your land speed, it boosts your AC, and probably something else that I'm forgetting.

Edit: Also I'm not sure where you'd put it, but note that after level 3 (it's half rounded up, right?) you can enter Wildshape before taking a short rest.
In a similar vein, note that your Wildshape form has its own Hit Dice it can spend.

[sophontteks]

Do you regularly see Flaming Sphere used in Tier 3 play by Moon Druids? I stopped using it because far too many times it was useless. Moonbeam scales much better, it can actually be used on aerial targets, more nasty things fear radiant damage, and so many creatures are resistant to fire.

In practice, you use Moonbeam in situations where Conjure Animals is ineffective, and many creatures resistant to weapon damage also resist fire. Plus, grappling attacks make Moonbeam better, not worse. Once you grapple them, you can drag them into the Moonbeam for extra damage.

They both scale terribly. Spells scale terribly.

[Zuras]

They both scale terribly. Spells scale terribly.

Have you actually read the spells? Moonbeam at 6th level does more damage to a single target than Sunbeam, and is a very competitive versus other damage dealing options at 4th-5th level. 4d10 damage/turn is nothing to sniff at. Often, something else is better, but if I was to only prep one damage dealing spell in a list filled with utility and control, it would be Moonbeam.

[Yunru]

As a rule of thumb, if it's bigger than a d8, it scales positively. Smaller and it scales negatively.
Going from memory, so don't quote me on that.

[sophontteks]

Have you actually read the spells? Moonbeam at 6th level does more damage to a single target than Sunbeam, and is a very competitive versus other damage dealing options at 4th-5th level. 4d10 damage/turn is nothing to sniff at. Often, something else is better, but if I was to only prep one damage dealing spell in a list filled with utility and control, it would be Moonbeam.

It is doing an average of 2 more damage per upcast then flame sphere. How is that making such a big difference?

Correct me if I'm wrong here. The arguement is that flame sphere is better initially but eventually moonbeam is superior because it does 4 more damage at level 4?

[Yunru]

Correct me if I'm wrong here. The arguement is that flame sphere is better initially but eventually moonbeam is superior because it does 4 more damage at level 4?

And can hit flying enemies. And revert shapeshifters.

[Zuras]

It is doing an average of 2 more damage per upcast then flame sphere. How is that making such a big difference?

Correct me if I'm wrong here. The arguement is that flame sphere is better initially but eventually moonbeam is superior because it does 4 more damage at level 4?

Mostly Moonbeam is better at high levels because it scales better and is a cheap source of radiant damage, which is much more important at higher levels. 4d10 vs 4d6 is an average of 22 vs 14. That is 57% more damage. Wizards had to errata Call Lightning because the number crunchers realized it was inferior to a 3rd level Moonbeam except in actual warfare (where the 10 min. duration matters).

The radiant damage is the most critical consideration. Most Druid spells are situational—Conjure Animals, Moonbeam, Spike Growth, and all the other quality Druid concentration spells are amazing sometimes, and abysmal others, the key is having a good concentration spell to cast for most occasions.

I like Flaming Sphere, but by level 11 I stopped preparing it. Too often we were fighting on a ship or building I didn’t want to burn, or fighting underwater, or fighting resistant or immune creatures, or undead that needed Radiant damage to KO. Moonbeam might not be optimal in every situation, but it is almost always at least moderately effective.

Philosophically, I like to prepare lots of utility and control spells, with only a few combat-focused spells that work in most situations, with a few show stopper spells for boss fights. Moonbeam does that. More than once I have started the adventuring day excited to prepare Rverse Gravity, only to discover that the only foe that day worthy of a 7th+ level spell was a Beholder who really didn’t care which way was up, but still cared about an 8th level Moonbeam in its face.

I’m not saying you will always use it in every encounter, just that it is always going to be useful in combat, and that flexibility will let you prepare a mix of other spells for non-combat situations.

[Merudo]

I agree with Wizard's overall rating, but... consider this: Whalesinger.

I'll admit it, it took me a few seconds to understand what you meant by "Whalesinger".

But yeah, I sort of had forgotten about Wizard 2. I fixed that.

[Zuras]

Merudo,
For the Korred, you may also want to note that for a 500 gp investment in an Adamantine Dagger or some adamantine scissors, your summoned Korred can use an Adamantine rope.

[rolan7]

This is one for the books! Thank you so much for taking it to the next level. Far superior to all moon druid guides I've seen to date.

Unfortunately, the 4-8 pixies with polymorph pissed off my team enough that it was banned. So I need to focus on other aspects of the moon druid massive dpr. This guide has provided enough options to peak my interest.

[Merudo]

Merudo,
For the Korred, you may also want to note that for a 500 gp investment in an Adamantine Dagger or some adamantine scissors, your summoned Korred can use an Adamantine rope.

The Korred would need to weave the strands of Adamantine hair together to create an Adamantine rope.

I don't think the Korred can do that, and even if it could it would likely take about 1 hour to do so.

This is one for the books! Thank you so much for taking it to the next level. Far superior to all moon druid guides I've seen to date.

Unfortunately, the 4-8 pixies with polymorph pissed off my team enough that it was banned. So I need to focus on other aspects to make this work. This guide has provided enough options to peak my interest.

Thank you! That means a lot to me.

[sambojin]

Great guide, and it's nice that you've made it specifically for one archetype, based off reasonable information from the other full class overview. Cheers! Moon Druid seems scary as hell for some players, but between a phone and an app (Companions for 5e D&D, just pass your phone to your DM so he has the stats appropriate), it makes things run fairly smoothly. Especially when it's narrowed down to "good/maybe/nah-don't-need-to-consider-it". Taking the "I don't want to be a Druid because it's too much book-keeping" into "Druids, Moon Druids especially, are awesome, there really isn't *too* much you need to know to be awesome at this" is a service for the 5e D&D community. Thanks!
You're doing a great job!

Probably would crank the rating of "Ape" up to black though, for wildshape uses. It is very rarely a conditional statement that you'd want to have hands and semi-opposable thumbs and a climb speed. +8 on athletics checks as well.

Not black on a usable combat form, but it is still very usable as a free scouting form. Do you need to headbutt a complicated trap with free HP to the value of 19? Ape's your man (or variant human or ghostwise halfling or firbolg, etc). Purple combat-wise, yes, maybe, for a Moon.... But unless your DM knows how squidly a Giant Octopus could be (they should "have hands" on doing stuff, considering that it's a fully aware humanoid doing the squidly'ing), having something that says "you are now a scout person/grappler holder/object manipulator/etc with free HP" makes it at least black. It's not good, but you won't get "hands" in wildshape ever again. Way better than "conditionally good". It's just good. Hands and free HP. The only thing that gives you that, in human understandable levels of it.

Not great. Not amazing. But definitely good. So black. Solid form. As a creative player, with a climb speed and decent athletics, you probably won't pop out of it until that HP is gone, unless you really need to speak or cast spells.

[Merudo]

Great guide, and it's nice that you've made it specifically for one archetype, based off reasonable information from the other full class overview. Cheers! Moon Druid seems scary as hell for some players, but between a phone and an app (Companions for 5e D&D, just pass your phone to your DM so he has the stats appropriate), it makes things run fairly smoothly. Especially when it's narrowed down to "good/maybe/nah-don't-need-to-consider-it". Taking the "I don't want to be a Druid because it's too much book-keeping" into "Druids, Moon Druids especially, are awesome, there really isn't *too* much you need to know to be awesome at this" is a service for the 5e D&D community. Thanks!
You're doing a great job!

Thank you!

Probably would crank the rating of "Ape" up to black though, for wildshape uses. It is very rarely a conditional statement that you'd want to have hands and semi-opposable thumbs and a climb speed. +8 on athletics checks as well.

Not black on a usable combat form, but it is still very usable as a free scouting form. Do you need to headbutt a complicated trap with free HP to the value of 19? Ape's your man (or variant human or ghostwise halfling or firbolg, etc). Purple combat-wise, yes, maybe, for a Moon.... But unless your DM knows how squidly a Giant Octopus could be (they should "have hands" on doing stuff, considering that it's a fully aware humanoid doing the squidly'ing), having something that says "you are now a scout person/grappler holder/object manipulator/etc with free HP" makes it at least black. It's not good, but you won't get "hands" in wildshape ever again. Way better than "conditionally good". It's just good. Hands and free HP. The only thing that gives you that, in human understandable levels of it.

Not great. Not amazing. But definitely good. So black. Solid form. As a creative player, with a climb speed and decent athletics, you probably won't pop out of it until that HP is gone, unless you really need to speak or cast spells.

I must admit I do not value the Ape's hands as highly as you do. I've read most WotC adventures and I find that very traps/puzzles actually require hands. And frankly, if I see a puzzle I'd rather stay in caster form to discuss the solution with my team instead of turning into a 19hp Ape.

For the record, the Ape only gets a +5 for Athletics checks. For comparison, the Brown Bear has a +4 for Athletics checks (+6 if the Druid is proficient).

[Zuras]

The Korred would need to weave the strands of Adamantine hair together to create an Adamantine rope.

I don't think the Korred can do that, and even if it could it would likely take about 1 hour to do so.

This sort of thing is all DM interpretation, but I envision the Korred as having the ability to psychically control all their hair, not just the part they cut off as a rope, so I would rule it takes them a minute or less, not possible in combat but not difficult. I can see how you might feel like the hair rope is a crafted item, but I roll with it like a hair-based super power.

[Aimeryan]

Thanks Merudo for the guide; I am just about to start in a new campaign as a Moon Druid - Ghostwise Halfling, hates being so small so will be wildshaped as much as possible. So, this has come in real handy at just the right time.

An interesting point of this campaign is that we will combating a corrupted version of nature - so expecting plant creatures and animals as primary enemies. Given that this nature will be hostile and not likely to be susceptible to commands or diplomacy even through commune spells (I'll try, though), what kind of spells would you recommend for combating such? Flaming sphere seems obvious (and produce flame if not wildshaped). Blight would be useful against a single or couple of powerful plant enemies.

Any other spells that particularly take advantage of foes being plant and/or animal? Same for any particular wildshapes that you think might be useful (dinosaurs probably not in play, sadly).

[Zene]

This looks great. Thanks for putting together such a comprehensive guide—I look forward to reading it when I have some downtime.

[Merudo]

Thanks Merudo for the guide; I am just about to start in a new campaign as a Moon Druid - Ghostwise Halfling, hates being so small so will be wildshaped as much as possible. So, this has come in real handy at just the right time.

You are welcome.

An interesting point of this campaign is that we will combating a corrupted version of nature - so expecting plant creatures and animals as primary enemies.

What character levels will the campaign cover? And are the corrupted animals be of the "Beast" type, or something else such as Monstrosities?

[Yunru]

It annoys me Griffons and Owlbears are monstrosities.

[Aimeryan]

What character levels will the campaign cover? And are the corrupted animals be of the "Beast" type, or something else such as Monstrosities?

We'll be starting at 5, probably covering up to mid teens if we get there. I'm not actually sure whether they will be Beasts or Aberrations, will depend on how the DM flavours them - could see them being both. Not familiar with Plant enemies, has never came up before - I am presuming they will be vulnerable to fire, but whether that will be RAW or not I do not know.

Fire Elemental wildshape seems like it will be powerful if facing hordes of Plant enemies. Before that, guessing not poison based wildshapes (so Spider and Scorpion not so effective, which is a shame). Actually thinking we'll face a lot of disease and poisons, so probably wildshapes with good Con scores.

For spells, fire as mentioned in general. Blight seems powerful if facing miniboss types. For Beasts/Aberations, I guessing saves that target the mental stats would generally be more effective, not sure what good spells Druids have that will target those. Think I'll dig through the spell lists see if anything stands out.