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2019-03-10, 05:41 AM (ISO 8601)
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Why aren't mortals more powerful than gods?
If a 4-colour Snarl is greater than a 1-colour god, then surely a 3-colour mortal is also greater than a 1-colour god?
Even if it's an exponential scale (where the Snarl might be far more powerful than a god, while a mortal is only slightly more powerful), why are the mortals so weak? Is it by design (so they don't rebel), or because they were created harmoniously rather than from divine conflict?Last edited by rferries; 2019-03-10 at 05:42 AM.
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2019-03-10, 06:24 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Why aren't mortals more powerful than gods?
Forum Wisdom
Mage avatar by smutmulch & linklele.
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2019-03-10, 07:28 AM (ISO 8601)
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2019-03-10, 07:34 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Why aren't mortals more powerful than gods?
The gods do have levels in 3.5 (they changed it in 4e, I think; there's a joke about this in SSDT). See here: "Some have theorized since that gods were even MORE vulnerable to the Snarl than a mortal of the same level would have been."
Last edited by hroþila; 2019-03-10 at 07:34 AM.
ungelic is us
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2019-03-10, 01:15 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Why aren't mortals more powerful than gods?
There is some info in the 3.5 SRD on that.
For example
Levels
Most deities are 20 HD outsiders with 30 to 50 character levels as well. These additional character levels beyond an effective character level of 20th follow the rules for epic levels.Last edited by KorvinStarmast; 2019-03-10 at 01:17 PM.
Avatar by linklele. How Teleport Worksa. Malifice (paraphrased):
Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.
b. greenstone (paraphrased):
Agency means that they {players} control their character's actions; you control the world's reactions to the character's actions.
Second known member of the Greyview Appreciation Society
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2019-03-10, 01:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Why aren't mortals more powerful than gods?
Even in campaigns where deities are statted you'd be hard pressed to actually manage to fight one at all, much less win. Unless you yourself are also a deity.
As far as the original post goes, the way I understand it is that the gods can't just decide to unravel any given mortal into their threads of reality, not without the help of the otherthreetwo pantheons. But luckily they don't have to, since they can just fry any uppity mortals they want gone with lightning or something.
Edit: Brain fartLast edited by RatElemental; 2019-03-11 at 11:53 AM.
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2019-03-10, 06:33 PM (ISO 8601)
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2019-03-11, 01:22 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2019
Re: Why aren't mortals more powerful than gods?
There's also the matter of the sheer amount of energy that goes into a thing. The Snarl for example had energy input from the quarreling of all of the gods (probably sixty to a hundred of them originally), while Mortal races didn't need "all" of the gods, just a bit of each quiddity, and also got a lot less overall energy. We know that energy is important to a god's power level, from the recent issue with Hel and her claiming that the sudden influx of several centuries' worth of Dwarf souls all at once would raise her relative standing.
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2019-03-11, 01:45 AM (ISO 8601)
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2019-03-11, 02:15 AM (ISO 8601)
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2019-03-11, 03:06 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Why aren't mortals more powerful than gods?
Thor specifically said that it requires multiple quiddities in order to produce Mortals (i.e. material beings who are capable of free will and generating the energies that Gods require for sustenance).
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2019-03-11, 03:11 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2007
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2019-03-11, 11:09 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2010
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2019-03-11, 11:12 AM (ISO 8601)
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2019-03-11, 11:16 AM (ISO 8601)
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2019-03-12, 08:50 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2019
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Re: Why aren't mortals more powerful than gods?
The Snarl isn't greater than a 1-colour god by being 4-colour, it's greater than the gods because it was born of their divine rage and discord, mortals aren't. It just can't be willed into nonexistence by any gods because they have no control over its fourth colour. Same goes for mortals, a god can still kill them with a fireball or lightning bolt, but they can't just will them out of existence.
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2019-03-12, 09:01 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Why aren't mortals more powerful than gods?
Orth Plays: Currently Baldur's Gate II
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2019-03-12, 09:16 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Why aren't mortals more powerful than gods?
By 2005, they were putting out books pegging Raistlin as of his time in Palanthas at level 27 in d20/OGL. Tracy Hickman et al., Dragonlance Campaign Setting Companion: Legends of the Twins 83-84 (2005).
If Raistlin ever showed up in the OotS world, I'm pretty sure he would fare a great deal like Larry Gardener, or Fruit Pie the Sorcerer.
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2019-03-13, 02:31 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Why aren't mortals more powerful than gods?
I'm not sure either of those follow. The Gods can't will the Snarl out of existence because it's too powerful, not because it's four colours--presumably they would have tried to get rid of it as soon as it attacked the Eastern Gods, but they failed. As for the second point, it isn't the same at all, because all current generation mortals have only three colours, not four--only the mortals from the first planet the Snarl destroyed had four, because the Eastern Gods were included in their creation.
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2019-03-13, 08:27 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2018
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2019-03-13, 09:33 AM (ISO 8601)
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2019-03-13, 10:40 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Why aren't mortals more powerful than gods?
If you read the Scribble Tale very very carefully, you will see that what you wrote is, narrowly speaking, probably true. It says so.
To be explicit and fill in some mechanics details with highly speculative concretes: yes, a 100 HP mortal can stand toe to toe against the Snarl and survive longer than a 10000 HP god. Presumably for the exact reason you said.
But in other respects, no, the >100th level god is more powerful because...power is power and levels are power and levels are levels blah blah blah.I owe Peelee 5 Quatloos. But I am going double or nothing that Durkon will be casting 8th level spells at the big finale.
I bet Goblin_Priest 5 quatloos that Xykon does not know RC has the phylactery at this point in the tale (#1139).
Using my Bardic skills I see the fate of Belkar...so close!
Using my Bardic skills I see the fate of goblinkind!
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2019-03-13, 02:00 PM (ISO 8601)
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2019-03-13, 03:20 PM (ISO 8601)
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2019-03-13, 05:09 PM (ISO 8601)
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2019-03-13, 06:20 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2018
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2019-03-13, 07:43 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2010
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2019-03-13, 09:02 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2018
Re: Why aren't mortals more powerful than gods?
This signature was written by me, Aveline, to indicate that this message was written by me, Aveline.
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2019-03-13, 09:07 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Why aren't mortals more powerful than gods?
Some people find the insane, ridiculous, horrendous power-bloat in the Forgotten Realms, which notoriously has bartenders turn out to be high-level retired adventurers, somewhat off-putting for some reason I'm sure I couldn't relate to at all myself.
Elminster, who was level 26 in First Edition and level 45 or so in his (first?) published 3.x stats, is the most egregious example of same.Orth Plays: Currently Baldur's Gate II
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2019-03-13, 10:19 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2019
Re: Why aren't mortals more powerful than gods?
A mortal would be more resistant to being unmade, but in turn can not deal out enough damage alone to do more than annoy the Snarl. Even all of the potential possible allies of the OOTS fighting together are not going to do more than "hold off the Snarl for a few moments so that the new seal can be formed".