Help in character creation

[Eldariel]

I see that many proposals/ideas were thrown to the table so far... I really thank you for that!
To summarize, I see that you propose...

1) Cleric 7 (i wouldn't have thought to put 18 in STR and not in WIS "Eldariel")
2) Barbarian 7
3) Even Ranger 7 (by "BowStreetRunner") although if I get it right most of you would do two or three levels of ranger and then something else instead.
4) Nothing about fighter or rogue as a starting class (i suppose they could be used for multi-class though)

To be honest spells (spell system in general) are overwhelming to me, but on the other hand the Ranger path is confusing too (where do i assign my stats? should i go straight to L7? - probably not as explained - What class to choose next? Archery or melee?).

I told you what i don't like about the ranger. If i could eliminate those few things (trade the animal companion for something else) and manage to transform the character from a "jack of all trades master of none" to "Jack ... master of one" then i would definitely go for it as somehow I feel more comfortable to role-play something like that.

Roleplay options aren't really that hard as long as you fluff what you want. Ranger, Barbarian and Cleric, for instance, can have the exact same fluff here. Any of those classes can be built as the master of the wilderness, the hunter (of the weak/the wicked/the strong/whatever strikes your fancy), the wilderness guy, etc. Every one of them has access to Survival, a decent number of skill points, and martial prowess. Your class doesn't determine your character, after all. You can roleplay it as you wish. You can be a guy who can let loose in combat becoming frighteningly strong (can be a Cleric casting Divine Power or a Barbarian using Rage), you can be a hunter and a master of the wilderness (could be a Cleric, a Barbarian or a Ranger), you can be pretty much anything.

I wouldn't normally suggest going Strength over Wisdom on a Cleric but in the effort to keep things simple for you, I suggest just focusing on smashing face and using spells to augment that. With the loadout I gave you, your spells aren't that different from Barbarian's Rage. That's one of the reasons I think Cleric would be a great class too: once you have the hang of the general gist of the things given to you here, you can switch your daily spell loadout as you feel like. This allows you to experiment and slowly get acclimated to the spells. This versatility is one of the reasons I recommend the Cleric: skills and feats can't be traded around but you can switch your spell loadout daily allowing you to experiment with e.g. summoning, offensive spellcasting, support spells, planar calling and the self-buffing style I recommended. You can stick to this for however long you want and just jump to the different subcategories when you feel like exploring (even just one spell of each can help).

Actually, one more option exists: putting that 18 into Dexterity and going Archer Cleric. This way you'd still be pretty strong in melee but also at range. That would take your feats:

MWP: Longbow
Point Blank Shot
Rapid Shot
Track/Precise Shot (depending on whether you want to be able to Track in spite of it not probably being featured in this campaign at this point; and to track, you can always use e.g. Planar Ally to call something with scent)

18 Dex this way. That would not be bad either though you'd be more reliant on Dex-boosters and perhaps Dex-boosting spells. Your damage would come mostly from your spells (Divine Favor and again, Divine Power; you need two different bows, one for Divine Power use and one for Divine Favor but that's okay as you can Greater Magic Weapon the arrows instead and use them with either).


With Ranger, I feel the following problem:
- Favored Enemy is a lot to keep track of and really random in whether it will be relevant in the campaign or not.
- Your spells are mostly offensive/utility in nature. There's no easy backroute to "self-buffing caster" in Core.
- You rely a lot on your skills. Remembering to use skills and figuring out what you need is not simple especially since you don't have a shot at reworking those later.
- The Animal Companion is kind of a drag.

I can help you with the rest though: definitely pick up Archery combat style and just use two-handed weapon if you wanna melee. Two-weapon fighting is pretty weak unless you're a Rogue and even there, you need to hit boosters. This is one of the reasons I wouldn't recommend the Rogue, btw. The skill system is a lot to take in and they rely on it fully, and their biggest strength is Use Magic Device, which is perhaps the single most complex aspect of the game. It's also hard to play a melee character with d6 HD and who relies on flanking/surprise to deal damage (and their ranged prowess is limited to 30' and restricted by enemy types).

In short, I think both Ranger and Rogue are a tad too complex for a starter. I'd definitely say they're advanced classes. Fighter, on the other hand, is a tad samey and really, there's no reason to run a Fighter in Core if you can run a Barbarian instead. Barbarian does the same, better, while also giving you the skill points and skills for the theme you're suggesting. Again, work with the DM and tell him you'd like to roleplay the character as you would regardless of the class. Ranger, Cleric or Barb can pray to their god/ideal/whatever for luck on the hunt just the same.

[bean illus]

Actually, one more option exists: putting that 18 into Dexterity and going Archer Cleric. This way you'd still be pretty strong in melee but also at range. That would take your feats:

MWP: Longbow
Point Blank Shot
Rapid Shot
Track/Precise Shot (depending on whether you want to be able to Track in spite of it not probably being featured in this campaign at this point; and to track, you can always use e.g. Planar Ally to call something with scent)

Iirc, a wood elf gets +2 str, +2 dex, -2 con, -2 int. Limits the 'skilled cleric' somewhat, but gets mwp long bow, longsword, while elf domain gives PBS.

With Ranger, I feel the following problem:
- <snip>
- You rely a lot on your skills. Remembering to use skills and figuring out what you need is not simple especially since you don't have a shot at reworking those later.
- The Animal Companion is kind of a drag.

<snip>
. Two-weapon fighting is pretty weak unless you're a Rogue and even there, you need to hit boosters. This is one of the reasons I wouldn't recommend the Rogue, btw. The skill system is a lot to take in and they rely on it fully, and their biggest strength is Use Magic Device, which is perhaps the single most complex aspect of the game. It's also hard to play a melee character with d6 HD and who relies on flanking/surprise to deal damage (and their ranged prowess is limited to 30' and restricted by enemy types).

It's true that skill use needs a busy, creative, attentive mind. The best skill monkeys have that as a personality trait.
Whereas, as a beginner, it's easy to understand that a +2 buff spell, or a -2 debuff on the opponent, is a useful thing to do.

Rogue is also tactical, as is pointed out. A full understanding of flanking, feinting, twf, skills, and even spells/umd are needed. It's almost a bit deceptive in that it's easily more complex than say, a barbarian, fighter, or a self buffing cleric Archer.

In short, I think both Ranger and Rogue are a tad too complex for a starter. <snip>

. Again, work with the DM and tell him you'd like to roleplay the character as you would regardless of the class. Ranger, Cleric or Barb can pray to their god/ideal/whatever for luck on the hunt just the same.

Remember this. Start at what you want, and build to it. Ask yourself;

1. Do I want ranged melee first, and close-quarters melee second? Or vice versa?
2. Do I want to take part in each and every conversation with NPCs (social skills) and never ever get left out of non-combat encounters? Or would I rather not have to memorize the DMs Encyclopedia of Lore?
3. Am I going to be comfortable trading hit points with the bad guys when my companions start falling at my side? Or would I rather be rummaging through my toolbox, and tossing things over the front liners at the bad guys (while keeping invisibility tucked under my elbow for retreat).

Honestly, I still recommend building a minimum wisdom cleric. If you haven't read the spells "Divine Power" and "Divine Favor", do so now.

Assign stats as: Wood elf
14 Str +2 = 16
18 Dex +2 =20
14 Con -2 =12 (you heal & have great AC)
14 Int -2 = 12 (spells give skill boost)
15 Wis +0=15 (+ level ups, +2 item)= enough
13 Cha -2 = 11 (turn undead for the other cleric)

Get long bow and longsword for free. Elf domain is point blank shot for free. War is Weapon Focus for free (why not).

Rapid shot, greater manyshot, etc. You're an A+ bowman, a B grade swordsman, hard to hit, self healer with great saves.

Or ... go ranger?

[Eldariel]

Iirc, a wood elf gets +2 str, +2 dex, -2 con, -2 int. Limits the 'skilled cleric' somewhat, but gets mwp long bow, longsword, while elf domain gives PBS.

He said Core-only Human only though. Elf domain isn't on the table and neither is Wood Elf. Not that it matters too much since in Core, the value of each individual feat goes way down so taking some weaker feats isn't that big of a deal. I realise much of the information he gave on the character creation rules is spread across multiple replies and in somewhat hard-to-find locations so I collected all of it here:

The character will enter the game at Level 7 and we have been told that only core books (I assume PHB & DMG) and XPH are allowed. Additionally, I'm under the impression, although not clearly stated, that our DM wants me to keep it as simple as possible (i wouldn't go for something very complicated either) by creating a single class PC like Fighter or Ranger.

So, the rulebooks are the ones mentioned, BUT (as i learned yesterday) because of the setting and the theme/feel the DM is trying to set and due to the fact that we are in the middle of the adventure there are also the following restrains:

The PC must be Human of NG (or maybe LG, LN) alignment. The allowed classes are Ranger, Fighter, Rogue, Barbarian, Cleric (in order of DM's preference). Dual-classing is also allowed but not recommended (for me or in general i do not know). Prestige classes are not ruled out but it will take some further discussion. The level as said it would be L7. Magic items are rare. Whatever we may think must be found in one of the two major towns.

Now as far as i am concerned, i do not have any particular problem playing anything (psion, psychic warrior etc., to name a few of your recommendations) but i'd rather keep it to what is already somewhat familiar to me. I barely remember the core classes of AD&D, a quick reading of the D&D 3.5 PHB will refresh my memory (i don't believe the classes to be that different) but it would be daunting for me to read a whole new rulebook.
Biffoniacus_Furiou you are absolutely right. It was a big omission by myself not to tell what i would want my character to do. Well, profession-wise, i would like my character to be a hunter with the broad meaning of the word. I mean to be able to track down and catch/retrieve/acquire anyone or anything. As for his physical build, I'm thinking of him as being a ridiculously die-hard person, although within normal boundaries. I'm not talking about anything beyond the real world, nothing supernatural or superhuman. Simply put, someone who, even when it seems that his is doomed, he somehow will be able to stand up again and fight once more. Maybe he is too quick to be hurt or maybe he is just lucky, i really don't know but you get the point.
I realise that everything suggests the Ranger, but honestly I do not have labelled the concept in my mind. Any approach to the above description is equally acceptable and maybe even more interesting. In addition, a problem I always have with archetypical Rangers of the RPGs is that I am not too fond of archery and ranged attacks as well as of the animal companion idea.

My main concern is should i throw in some levels of more than one of the given class or choose one class and keep it throughout the 7 levels? will the advantages of multi-classing outweigh the penalties? Is it worth multi-classing if the max achievable level in the end (of the adventure/campaign) isn't that high?

By the way, my stats are 18, 15, 14, 14, 14 & 13 (unassigned) if that helps.

Is any of those classes harder to role-play than others?

[Quertus]

The PC must be Human of NG (or maybe LG, LN) alignment. The allowed classes are Ranger, Fighter, Rogue, Barbarian, Cleric (in order of DM's preference). Dual-classing is also allowed but not recommended (for me or in general i do not know). Prestige classes are not ruled out but it will take some further discussion. The level as said it would be L7. Magic items are rare.

I also think it's REALLY kind of lame that the DM has given you HIS preference of classes you should take. If you are going to restrict them to a couple of books, you should be given full advantage of said books, not be forced into picking what the DM wants you to play. I'd rather play a video game than be railroaded into someone's amateur nonsense.

Playing a mundane character is hard-mode, bruv. If you make a mistake with druid or cleric spells, or an animal companion, those can be changed with a night's rest. If you pick stupid feats for your fighter, it's permanent.

So...

There are people in your party who have classes outside this list. GM sounds like a ****.

The world is low magic, and GM encourages mundanes? GM sounds like a noob (or possibly a ****), and probably a control freak.

This GM says "core only"? This GM sounds like a noob with trust issues & control issues.

All of the above, and GM made you a preferences class list, heavy on muggles? I'm hearing rails.

This GM throws lots and lots of red flags. You've been warned.

That said, I would recommend,

1) Cleric
2) Ranger
3) Wizard/Druid/Psion (ie, something not on the GM's list)

In that order.

Cleric can actually manage a low-wealth campaign better than those other choices. Also, if the GM takes away your casting, you know to bail and blacklist that GM.

Ranger, as had been said, is versatile. It's a great first character. Be better with items, though. (Also, there was a cool Ranger/Barb/prestige build that sounded fun).

Things off the preferences list? It's to see what the GM will do when you ignore his blatant rails. Might be best to get it out of the way early.

Good luck!

[Eldariel]

Okay, let's see now... I'll give you one idea for how you could approach this:

LN Human Cleric Archer of the Hunt (ideal, not a God)

14 Str
18 Dex
14 Con
14 Int
15 Wis
13 Cha

Pick Turn Undead (spontaneously cast Cures; they're useful for less effort than the spontaneous Inflicts and Undead you could get with Rebuking)
Domains: Travel, Trickery (seems pretty appropriate for "a Hunter")

Skill ranks:
10 Concentration
10 Bluff
8 Diplomacy
10 Hide
8 Survival
1 Knowledge: Religion
1 Knowledge: Arcane
1 Knowledge: The Planes
½ Knowledge: Nature

Feats:
1. Track
B. MWP: Longbow
3. Point Blank Shot
6. Rapid Shot

Equipment:
Mw. Longspear
Mw. Composite Longbow (+2 Str)
Mw. Composite Longbow (+5 Str)
Mithril Breastplate
Usual adventuring stuff


If you can get magic items, Periapt of Wisdom +2 and Necklace of Dex +2 are the priority ones and you can get stuff like Animated Shield or such if you have extra cash. You could replace Track with Craft Wondrous Items if needed to acquire the key items; they're worth more and you can always summon something to follow tracks for you if you end up needing it. The spell loadout I listed earlier is probably fine:

1. Summon Monster I (for sacrifice), Divine Favor, Divine Favor, Divine Favor, Divine Favor, Disguise Self
2. Resist Energy, Resist Energy, Spiritual Weapon, Death Knell, Invisibility
3. Magic Vestment, Magic Circle Against Evil, Dispel Magic, Fly
4. Greater Magic Weapon, Divine Power, Dimension Door

This assumes 18 Wisdom; you need to drop a 4th level spell (probably just Greater Magic Weapon for now as you can't drop domain spells) if you have to make do with less.


Not numerically nearly as impressive as a Strength-build (1d8+6-1d8+7 damage even with buffs instead of 2d6+10-2d6+12 and Divine Power doesn't pump "to hit" here) but still certainly workably decent overall.

[bean illus]

I don't catch how your getting ranks in survival, hide, etc. Is there a cleric of the hunt variant i missed?

[Eldariel]

I don't catch how your getting ranks in survival, hide, etc. Is there a cleric of the hunt variant i missed?

Travel and Trickery domains open up a number of skills. Travel most saliently opens up Survival, while Trickery opens up Hide, Bluff and Disguise. The principal reason I suggested picking up both. Well, somewhere I read Travel adds Knowledge: Nature too but as both SRD and PHB disagree with me, we'll just go with it being a different edition thing.

EDIT: Ah, I probably misread the Cleric class description; Plant and Animal grant Knowledge: Nature, but Travel only grants Survival.

[Malphegor]

Haven't fully read the thread but looking at the classes you have available, I'd recommend Rogue or Cleric.

Rogues are pretty simple- hide, stabbity, do a d4 in knife damage, but then real fun comes in their sneak attack damage, where you do a gajillion d6 in damage, rivalling low level fireballs, and there's ways to improve that. If you wanted to look at prestige classes for it later, Arcane Trickster is a fun one. Rogues tend to be Dex-based, and there's a lot of fun ways you can go.

Clerics are easily one of the easiest classes to play as casters go imo (no spell research required, a cleric just prays for whatever they can access at their level and they get it. It is amazing.) and also one of the 3 most powerful classes in the game. I suspect your DM's trying to avoid arcane casters for a story reason, which is cool, you can still work with that to be absurdly overpowered, lol. Clerics are (normally) Wisdom based casters.

Consider asking if you could play a Cloistered Cleric- it was an Unearthed Arcana (I think) class variant for more studious that was basically a cleric with less melee options but an extra domain (Knowledge, independant of whatever your god normally offers) and was less 'kung fu vicar' imo. Is fun if you have a character concept that doesn't involve the usual knight templar deus vult crusading cleric. I believe you also get all knowledge skills as class skills, which is handy.

On Rangers, whilst it isn't great (you're a divine caster as a ranger, and most of your spells are to do with your arrows), you get a decent chunk of utility stuff for living in the wilderness. Depends on your campaign, if you've got no druid, Rangers are that weird inbetween druids and fighters. There's an animal companion, you've got some nature abilities, but your main thing is going to be buffing yourself and shooting arrows whilst your animal companion does some mild attacks here and there as far as I know. (Drizzt was one of these somewhere in his piles of different classes I think)

Barbarians, now they're interesting. In terms of dead levels (levels where you have nothing interesting going on beyond number increases), barbarians are beautiful as there is always something new each level. Depending on your race, there may be substitution levels and stuff to make a barbarian better than stock, but to be honest a standard PHB barbarian from 1 to 20 is a lot of fun. If you enjoy playing the Hulk, Barbs are fun.

[bean illus]

Travel and Trickery domains open up a number of skills. Travel most saliently opens up Survival, while Trickery opens up Hide, Bluff and Disguise.

EDIT: Ah, I probably misread the Cleric class description; Plant and Animal grant Knowledge: Nature, but Travel only grants Survival.

Thanks for your patience. I knew all that,and did read the character limitations ... maybe i was tired both times. Lol

[Particle_Man]

I've realized this is surprisingly similar to the Horizon Tripper build, but a wood elf probably doesn't have the Int for combat expertise.

In fact, the Horizon Tripper Build (Ranger 1/Fighter 1/Barbarian 1/Ranger 2 more/Horizon Walker (prestige class) 2 for a 7th level character) is what I would recommend for this character. It is a nice meelee core option and gives you something cool to try at low levels and some teleportation and resistance to nasty alignent based stuff at high levels. You have wonderful stats for it. Human giving you the extra feat is great for it too.

[chakou79]

In fact, the Horizon Tripper Build (Ranger 1/Fighter 1/Barbarian 1/Ranger 2 more/Horizon Walker (prestige class) 2 for a 7th level character) is what I would recommend for this character. It is a nice meelee core option and gives you something cool to try at low levels and some teleportation and resistance to nasty alignent based stuff at high levels. You have wonderful stats for it. Human giving you the extra feat is great for it too.

It's interesting indeed, but i have to ask again:

1) Supposing that you're starting with the Ranger class, does it matter if it's R1/F1/B1/R2 or R3/F1/B1 or R3/B1/F1 etc?
2) Both Fighter and Barbarian classes must be used or it will also work if it's R1/B2/R2 or R1/F2/R2?
3) How about spending two more levels in total as B & F (R3/F2/B2...) before stacking levels in HW PrC, or it's not worth doing so?
4) Would this build make sense without the HW PrC (in case PrCs are eliminated as well)?
5) Could you please elaborate more on the progression (skills, feats, combat style...)? I understand that archery is not recommended for this build, right? What if i'm not fond of TWF is there any other option?

[Quertus]

It's interesting indeed, but i have to ask again:

1) Supposing that you're starting with the Ranger class, does it matter if it's R1/F1/B1/R2 or R3/F1/B1 or R3/B1/F1 etc?
2) Both Fighter and Barbarian classes must be used or it will also work if it's R1/B2/R2 or R1/F2/R2?
3) How about spending two more levels in total as B & F (R3/F2/B2...) before stacking levels in HW PrC, or it's not worth doing so?
4) Would this build make sense without the HW PrC (in case PrCs are eliminated as well)?
5) Could you please elaborate more on the progression (skills, feats, combat style...)? I understand that archery is not recommended for this build, right? What if i'm not fond of TWF is there any other option?

Ranger 1st and last is best from a skill points PoV, I think. Also, with this GM, it sounds like you really want to start with the prestige class. And you don't want to spend 6 or 7 levels getting into your prestige class if you can get in in 5.

I'll let others more versed in building & playing muggles field the rest.

[bean illus]

It's interesting indeed, but i have to ask again:

1) Supposing that you're starting with the Ranger class, does it matter if it's R1/F1/B1/R2 or R3/F1/B1 or R3/B1/F1 etc?
2) Both Fighter and Barbarian classes must be used or it will also work if it's R1/B2/R2 or R1/F2/R2?
3) How about spending two more levels in total as B & F (R3/F2/B2...) before stacking levels in HW PrC, or it's not worth doing so?
4) Would this build make sense without the HW PrC (in case PrCs are eliminated as well)?
5) Could you please elaborate more on the progression (skills, feats, combat style...)? I understand that archery is not recommended for this build, right? What if i'm not fond of TWF is there any other option?

That's the standard Horizon Tripper.

1. If you've started at 7, the only real question is R1 for skill points, or B1 for hit points. R1 is standard, and more so if starting after level 2. Other than that is makes little difference which order.
2. B1 is wanted for +10' speed. F1 can be traded for B2, the difference being uncanny dodge or fighter feat.
3. It's generally accepted that prc is better. There's some good things in those base class levels, but you would have to decide. Level 7 HW is the prize, and you may not get there.
4. Yes, though at that point R1/B1/R5 gives better spell access and improved combat style. Perhaps R1/B2/F2 could work ... less skills but more martial?
5. Combat style is inconsequential to this build. I would choose archery since you'll be tripping at close range (twf doesn't do trip).

There's small options to put something else in there, but the build is a full bab build, so ...
Rogue 1/B2/Ra1/Ro+1(2)/HW2 is short 1 bab, but gets mad skills, evasion, uncanny dodge, and clw wand use.
Without HW ... Ro1/B2/Ro+1(2)/R1/F2 ?

You should read the Horizon Tripper build. It's linked 2-3 post above this one. Ask your dm about spiked chain, and Martial Rogue (trade sneak attack for fighter feats = 2 feats, one each at levels 1 and 2).

[Particle_Man]

Here is the link to the horizon tripper build. It should answer some of your questions:

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...e-Melee-Build)

[Eldariel]

Frankly though, if you don't think Tripping is too complex for starting off, you could just make a Tripper Cleric to much the same effect (go 18 Str, 14 Dex, 14 Con, 14 Int, 15 Wis, 13 Cha like before and just pick up feats Combat Reflexes, Exotic Weapon Proficiiency: Spiked Chain, Combat Expertise and Improved Trip - this is probably the strongest feat line-up for this level). You could then take the Strength-domain and cast Enlarge Person on yourself (or Magic-domain and use Wand of Enlarge Person if you can access the spell) when you wanna turbocharge your Tripping and area control. It makes you Large so you threaten twice the normal area, do increased damage and get additional +4 on Trip-checks. But size increases are another relatively complex thing so I'm not certain that's the best way to go here. Unless you, the OP, feel like you are able to calculate varying bonuses.

The previous builds I outlined were written with the idea that there would only be two-three things to keep a track of: tripping would add a few more. Of course this can be a very effective "Hunter" again in certain senses of the word; you can trap anyone within your threat radius and make it nigh' impossible for them to escape.


Incidentally, the earlier build I set up so that you'd also be well-equipped for finding and taking down your target; Diplomacy and Bluff allow for you to find your target in a more social settings and Track allows for it in a more natural one (and spells complement either). You can stalk, you even have the Silence- and Invisibility-spells if need be to sneak and you can take them down. Again, you can pick your combat style. Taking Strength over Dex and going melee is also a valid option (as is going "dual-style" with Str > Dex and just picking up Longbow proficiency).

[bean illus]

... you could just make a Tripper Cleric to much the same effect (go 18 Str, 14 Dex, 14 Con, 14 Int, 15 Wis, 13 Cha like before and just pick up feats Combat Reflexes, Exotic Weapon Proficiiency: Spiked Chain, Combat Expertise and Improved Trip - this is probably the strongest feat line-up for this level). You could then take the Strength-domain and cast Enlarge Person on yourself (or Magic-domain and use Wand of Enlarge Person if you can access the spell) when you wanna turbocharge your Tripping and area control. It makes you Large so you threaten twice the normal area, do increased damage and get additional +4 on Trip-checks.

This build will possibly test your dms patience. Ask first about spiked chain. But it would be near as good with a pole arm, and would free up a feat.

Level 7 is a power boost to cleric. A level 7 tripper cleric is formidable with this games limitations.

Again, spell choice and descriptive fluff/story makes this character nearly whatever you want.

[Eldariel]

This build will possibly test your dms patience. Ask first about spiked chain. But it would be near as good with a pole arm, and would free up a feat.

Level 7 is a power boost to cleric. A level 7 tripper cleric is formidable with this games limitations.

Again, spell choice and descriptive fluff/story makes this character nearly whatever you want.

True, it's a very annoying build especially with these stats; enough Dex to guarantee two AoOs a turn and enough Strength to trip nigh' anything with spells just further boosting it; getting attacks as non-actions while buffing self is pretty nice place to be as a caster. However, a tripper is a tripper; I'd assume either kind of tripper would be annoying for the DM with this setup.

My bigger gripe with the build is that tripping adds an extra layer of complexity to combat where we're already talking about a player, who's jumping in on level 7 into an unfamiliar system. I think it would be optimal to minimise the amount of situational bonuses (e.g. Favored Enemy, Prone, etc.) the character regularly has to deal with as it makes turns take longer (something the DM seems to worry about given the restrictions he's set out) and places an extra burden on memory. Static bonuses like Divine Favor or Rage are easier in that they have a set duration and they're either on or off, applying to all actions taken while the ability is active. It's easy enough to list two sets of stuff, one with the bonuses and one without. It takes much more effort to cross-reference two tables simultaneously, one for enemies against whom a bonus applies and one for those against whom it doesn't, let alone when you add buffs from other characters on top of it.

Well, i think "The Kool" said it all for me. I'm sure that there is absolutely no bad intention behind the restrictions our DM has set for us. He is experienced, the world is totally home-brewed and very low in magic maybe even some of the mechanics are borrowed from other systems (i don't know that for sure) and the game is in progress. So i wouldn't be too suspicious about him.

I realise some of these questions were never covered in-depth, so I'll try to rectify that at least for my part:

Re: Low magic. Spellcasters are always better than non-casters in low magic games.

Explanation: Non-casters rely on magic items and spellcasters to get basic effects (+X weapons, +X armor, Haste, Flight, See Invisibility, Invisibility, etc.) that multiply their efficiency. In a low magic game, such effects are harder to come by but spellcasters have them natively (Greater Magic Weapon, Haste, See Invisibility/Invisibility Purge, Fly/Air Walk, etc.). Thus, if the game is low magic, there are even more incentives for playing a full caster. Furthermore, crafting magic items, which is about the only way to acquire useful items in many low magic games, is a spellcaster only thing.

I'm OK with the idea to have only those handful of classes at my disposal and i'm sure that he won't have a problem either if i eventually choose to go for class mixing or be interested in using a prestige class later. My main concern is should i throw in some levels of more than one of the given class or choose one class and keep it throughout the 7 levels? will the advantages of multi-classing outweigh the penalties? Is it worth multi-classing if the max achievable level in the end (of the adventure/campaign) isn't that high?

Re: Multiclassing. Multiclassing is worth it for warrior classes as a rule.

Explanation: Fighter, Barbarian, Ranger, Paladin, Monk are all very frontloaded classes where they get their most powerful and useful abilities on the first level or the first few levels of the class. As such, a character with one-two levels of each tends to be more powerful than a single-classed character. The most powerful single-classed non-caster of these is definitely the Barbarian, simply because Rage is really good and getting to use it every fight and even getting improvements to it is nice. Ranger and Paladin get spells, which are about the only important thing they offer down the road. Most of the important improvements for warriors come from feats that anyone can take (Power Attack, Combat Reflexes, Improved Trip, Spirited Charge in Core) - class features only augment these.

Spellcasters (Cleric, Druid, Wizard, Sorcerer, kinda Bard) on the other hand get quadratic scaling from their class levels: higher caster level (and thus more duration/casting range/damage/spell resistance penetration/dispel resistance), higher level spells, more spells of the old level, and often even class features out of their class levels. Thus spellcasters almost never benefit of multiclassing as much as taking levels in a single class. Rogue Sneak Attack scaling and skills are important enough that you don't really want to multiclass with them either but it isn't as important for them as for spellcasters.

TL;DR: If you take a spellcasting class, don't multiclass. If you take a warrior class, do multiclass if you want.

Re: Max achievable level. Level 7 is already high enough for this to be true.

Explanation: Max achievable level doesn't really matter. Casters want more caster levels from the start, warriors get more out of cherry-picking classes from the start. You miss out on the option of taking some prestige classes (for example, Archmage can only be taken in the teens) but mostly, this doesn't affect the reality of any of these statements.

Is any of those classes harder to role-play than others?

Re: Roleplaying. You don't roleplay classes. You roleplay characters.

Explanation: I kinda covered this already, but to reiterate: classes are not characters. A Ranger can be a cruel hunter, a protector of the innocent, a warlord, an animal keeper, a guard, a Druid (the character archetype, not the class), or whatever for example. Same goes for basically every class. Classes are sets of abilities. Characters are personalities, webs of social relationships, agents, actors. The same set of abilities can belong to many different kinds of characters. Thus, your class build doesn't necessarily inform much of your character's personality, goals, desires, weaknesses, abilities, etc. In this case, it's sensible to build a mechanically robust character with the kind of personality you might want.

A Cleric for example doesn't necessarily need to be a preacher. A Cleric of the Hunt might offer a prayer to whatever greater power lies out there before going on a hunt, and any Cleric needs to pray for their spells but the form of said prayer as well as the content there-of is completely up to the player. Same with their behaviour; you can be a brash hotshot, a cunning scoundrel, a hardy warrior, a devout believer, a crusader, a cultist, a mercenary, whatever regardless of your class. This bears emphasizing; classes are at most approximations of the character abilities and e.g. Cleric can be built to be about anything (as I hope I showcased with the "Cleric of the Hunt"-build above).

Thus, pick the character classes that best suit your fancy and needs, pick the character archetype you want and craft a personality from there. You don't need to be a Ranger to be a hunter nor a Cleric to be a priest. Indeed, a Ranger or a Fighter might be a priest while a Cleric might be a mage or a hunter, for example. Make the classes suit your needs, don't try and suit the classes because the classes are generic enough to be about anything (with some exceptions: Druid and Paladin are pretty fluff-heavy mechanically for example).

[chakou79]

In the tripper build i'd say that i'm convinced that taking the first class/Level as ranger is probably the best thing to do. The dilemas come after that. So, what about the penalty in XP when a class has more than one lvl difference than the other (e.g. R3 and B1 & F1)? Does this apply to the prestige classes as well?If that is true then when HW would be at L5 then the character will be awarded with only the 40% of the total XP, right?

Of course i'm not referring to the cleric tripper character (which by the way "Eldariel", i assume you meant that it would be pure cleric - not multi-classing character - using the tripping method for combat, correct?).

[The Kool]

In the tripper build i'd say that i'm convinced that taking the first class/Level as ranger is probably the best thing to do. The dilemas come after that. So, what about the penalty in XP when a class has more than one lvl difference than the other (e.g. R3 and B1 & F1)? Does this apply to the prestige classes as well?If that is true then when HW would be at L5 then the character will be awarded with only the 40% of the total XP, right?

Of course i'm not referring to the cleric tripper character (which by the way "Eldariel", i assume you meant that it would be pure cleric - not multi-classing character - using the tripping method for combat, correct?).

First, check if your DM even uses that penalty. A lot of them don't.
Second, I don't think it stacks... but I could be wrong.
Third, prestige classes don't count.
Fourth, check your race's Favored Class. This one also doesn't count.

So, if you were a Human R3/B1/F1/HW+ then you wouldn't have a penalty at all.

[Eldariel]

In the tripper build i'd say that i'm convinced that taking the first class/Level as ranger is probably the best thing to do. The dilemas come after that. So, what about the penalty in XP when a class has more than one lvl difference than the other (e.g. R3 and B1 & F1)? Does this apply to the prestige classes as well?If that is true then when HW would be at L5 then the character will be awarded with only the 40% of the total XP, right?

Of course i'm not referring to the cleric tripper character (which by the way "Eldariel", i assume you meant that it would be pure cleric - not multi-classing character - using the tripping method for combat, correct?).

Correct, Cleric with these stats can make for quite possibly the best trippers in the game, and tripping is the strongest melee tactic by a fair bit (a very powerful debuff that you can rather easily apply combined with your usual damage). It's doubly beneficial since much of the benefit of tripping is free action out of your turn ("attack of opportunity" provoked by an enemy moving from a square you threaten; you threaten maximal amount of space by being Large and having a reach weapon, threatening 20' around you so enemies provoke a lot) and you can thus cast buff spells on your turn and then trip out of turn. As I stated previously, casters don't want to multiclass so you'd naturally want to go Cleric 7. Perhaps take Trickery and Magic domains, use Wand/Scrolls of Enlarge Person and go from there. Or just take Strength domain coupled with either Trickery or Travel and cast the Enlarge Person yourself.

Far as Horizon Tripper goes, since you'd be forced to be Human your Favored Class would be the class with the largest number of levels. In this case Ranger. Prestige Classes do not count towards Favored Class penalties, meaning the build has no penalties at any point. As for your question, the penalties from multiple classes would stack normally making it possible to make leveling entirely impossible if you multiclass too much. Those rules are rather poorly implemented though and eschewed from many games as a result. But yeah, in this build with Human such problems do not occur in any case.

[bean illus]

In the tripper build i'd say that i'm convinced that taking the first class/Level as ranger is probably the best thing to do. The dilemas come after that.

Of course i'm not referring to the cleric tripper character (which by the way "Eldariel", i assume you meant that it would be pure cleric - not multi-classing character - using the tripping method for combat, correct?).

Yes, the cleric build should probably be straight to level 7, which is a goal for all cleric/warrior builds (take this!). Still a 1-3 level cleric dip would be a perfectly acceptable strategy in a martial tripper build.
And yes, most folks would go ranger 1 in the tripper build being described.

But, yes there are several options in the martial tripper.

Some things that a tripper needs most are High base attack bonus (bab), strength, combat expertise, combat reflexes, and improved trip. Next things you want are exotic weapon proficiency [spiked chain], and a way to increase your size (enlarge person spell, or item).

Builds include
- Lots of ranger levels, so spells come at later levels. R1/F2/R+4(5)
- R1/cleric1/R+5(6), strength and travel domain.

-Without Horizon Walker or spells? ...
Ro1/B2/Ro+1(2)/R1/F2 ?
is short 1 bab, but gets mad skills, rage, +10' speed, evasion, uncanny dodge, and clw wand use. This build needs 3 feats, and has 6. If you talk to your DM about the martial Rogue variant you will have a total of 8 feets, and 5 open.