The Order of the Stick: Utterly Dwarfed
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  1. - Top - End - #31
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    Default Re: El Goonish ShiVe: Look! Squirrel!

    Quote Originally Posted by JeenLeen View Post
    I think it's almost 100% certain whoever the target is not someone cliche dude-jerks like those would want to hit on (e.g., not a non-trans woman), so I think the main point of speculation is who it is. (Though I guess it being a modified-Ashley and her wrecking transformative vengeance is an option. Could be Grace, but seems unlikely as she'd probably respond in a non-hostile way.)

    Though the semi-goth arm-sleeve does have the look of Ashley or her friend. I'd be surprised if Ashley's friend's spell was to transform like that, though.

    My guesses
    1) Tedd as a woman
    2) Elliot transformed (mix of goth and party form?)
    3) Pandora manifested corporeally
    4) a new character who is some sort of magic-user
    It's going to be someone who just started transforming them into women. I don't remember exactly who had that spell, but I'm pretty sure someone we know has it.
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  2. - Top - End - #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeenLeen View Post
    I think it's almost 100% certain whoever the target is not someone cliche dude-jerks like those would want to hit on (e.g., not a non-trans woman), so I think the main point of speculation is who it is. (Though I guess it being a modified-Ashley and her wrecking transformative vengeance is an option. Could be Grace, but seems unlikely as she'd probably respond in a non-hostile way.)

    Though the semi-goth arm-sleeve does have the look of Ashley or her friend. I'd be surprised if Ashley's friend's spell was to transform like that, though.

    My guesses
    1) Tedd as a woman
    2) Elliot transformed (mix of goth and party form?)
    3) Pandora manifested corporeally
    4) a new character who is some sort of magic-user
    I reckon its Ashely in either a dream or fanfic sequence.
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  3. - Top - End - #33
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    Default Re: El Goonish ShiVe: Look! Squirrel!

    Quote Originally Posted by JeenLeen View Post
    I think it's almost 100% certain whoever the target is not someone cliche dude-jerks like those would want to hit on (e.g., not a non-trans woman), so I think the main point of speculation is who it is. (Though I guess it being a modified-Ashley and her wrecking transformative vengeance is an option. Could be Grace, but seems unlikely as she'd probably respond in a non-hostile way.)

    Though the semi-goth arm-sleeve does have the look of Ashley or her friend. I'd be surprised if Ashley's friend's spell was to transform like that, though.

    My guesses
    1) Tedd as a woman
    2) Elliot transformed (mix of goth and party form?)
    3) Pandora manifested corporeally
    4) a new character who is some sort of magic-user
    I'm guessing number 4 is the most likely. That's what I assumed when Infirst read it.
    Last edited by Celestia; 2019-04-17 at 12:14 PM.
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  4. - Top - End - #34
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    Default Re: El Goonish ShiVe: Look! Squirrel!

    Quote Originally Posted by Celestia View Post
    I'm guessing number 4 is the most likely. That's what I assumed when Infirst read it.
    Same. In fact, I'm getting antagonist vibes.

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    I would say that's the dumbest theory Grey Wolf's heard, but, let's be honest: It's Grey Wolf. They've probably heard dumber theories today. Point is, neat idea, but it's a real stretch.
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  5. - Top - End - #35
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    Default Re: El Goonish ShiVe: Look! Squirrel!

    Yeah the two clichés sexist construction workers kind of remind me of Absurdly Evil Robber Guy.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    the Vector Legion [is the IFCC's new pawns], mark my words. Way too much unfinished business there and they already know about the Gates.
    I'll take that bet.

  6. - Top - End - #36
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    Default Re: El Goonish ShiVe: Look! Squirrel!

    You know, I just realized that if I lived in the EGS world, I would have name affinity. My first name means "ruler of men," and my last name means "Ba'al preserve the king." So, I'd probably have an affinity for mind control magic or something.
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  7. - Top - End - #37
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    Default Re: El Goonish ShiVe: Look! Squirrel!

    Quote Originally Posted by Celestia View Post
    You know, I just realized that if I lived in the EGS world, I would have name affinity. My first name means "ruler of men," and my last name means "Ba'al preserve the king." So, I'd probably have an affinity for mind control magic or something.
    "The glorious war-eagle of Mars from the town of [redacted]" here. I was even born in Mars/March.

    I don't like what I would Have an affinity for, though.

    Edit: No wait, the surname thing doesn't work.
    Last edited by Fyraltari; 2019-04-18 at 01:42 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    the Vector Legion [is the IFCC's new pawns], mark my words. Way too much unfinished business there and they already know about the Gates.
    I'll take that bet.

  8. - Top - End - #38
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    Default Re: El Goonish ShiVe: Look! Squirrel!

    Quote Originally Posted by Celestia View Post
    You know, I just realized that if I lived in the EGS world, I would have name affinity. My first name means "ruler of men," and my last name means "Ba'al preserve the king." So, I'd probably have an affinity for mind control magic or something.
    Meh. All names mean something. It only really works if your name super obviously means something, even to the casual observer.

    Which, incidentally, doesn't quite work the way Dan intended in other cultures, because, as far as I know, Chinese people generally give their children names that super obviously mean something, and I doubt they're the only ones. An unfortunate oversight, but, meh.

  9. - Top - End - #39
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    Default Re: El Goonish ShiVe: Look! Squirrel!

    If this is not something Ashley is writing I will eat every hat.

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    Quote Originally Posted by archaeo View Post
    Man, this is just one of those things you see and realize, "I live in a weird and banal future."

  10. - Top - End - #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by HorizonWalker View Post
    Meh. All names mean something. It only really works if your name super obviously means something, even to the casual observer.

    Which, incidentally, doesn't quite work the way Dan intended in other cultures, because, as far as I know, Chinese people generally give their children names that super obviously mean something, and I doubt they're the only ones. An unfortunate oversight, but, meh.
    Dan should probably make a spin-off in which a fairy meets Chairman Mao.
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    I thought Tom Bombadil dreadful — but worse still was the announcer's preliminary remarks that Goldberry was his daughter (!), and that Willowman was an ally of Mordor (!!).

  11. - Top - End - #41
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    Default Re: El Goonish ShiVe: Look! Squirrel!

    Name-based affinities are the result of Magic's flairs for drama and irony.

    Obviously, in places where meaningful names are more scommon, name-based affinities are restricted to names that are particularly appropriate or particularly ironic.

    and even in confirmed examples: Catalina Bobcat isn't just named something sufficiently kitty-y, she genuinely looks like what you'd expect a catgirl to look like.

    And Kitty Last-Name-Unknown-But-Probably-Feline-Related isn't just named Kitty.

    She's pathologically obsessed with and lusts after Catgirls.

    Appearance and personality seem to play a factor, and as Dan has confirmed that Name Based Affinities are drama and Irony, it's probably just a stronger version of the "get spells appropriate to yourself" thing unlike Susan's "there's literally some non-human super magic blood in your veins what makes you good at this kinda magic."
    Last edited by Rater202; 2019-04-18 at 05:19 PM.
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  12. - Top - End - #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    Yeah the two clichés sexist construction workers kind of remind me of Absurdly Evil Robber Guy.
    I remember that guy. Didn't he promptly get eaten?
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  13. - Top - End - #43
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    Default Re: El Goonish ShiVe: Look! Squirrel!

    Quote Originally Posted by Lamech View Post
    I remember that guy. Didn't he promptly get eaten?
    Yes, but commentary reserved the right for the existence of an unspecified number of brothers/cousins.

  14. - Top - End - #44
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    Default Re: El Goonish ShiVe: Look! Squirrel!

    *gives a cookie to yuki akuma and myself*
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  15. - Top - End - #45
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    Default Re: El Goonish ShiVe: Look! Squirrel!

    Hold those cookies: Ashley didn't write this.

    The commentary says it's a story she's reading.

    And honestly, it seems like she isn't into it anymore.

    I wonder if it's because she knows she's a wizard--if by some chance she doesn't get spells that do this naturally, she can easily learn them... She might be uncomfortable with this now that she knows it's potentially in her power to actually do it.

    I hope we get a story out of her working with Tedd as was implied would be happening. Ashley is so similar to Tedd that Elliot misremembered a dream about Girl Tedd as being about Ashley, but we don't have any major interaction between them.
    Last edited by Rater202; 2019-04-19 at 10:10 AM.
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  16. - Top - End - #46
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    Default Re: El Goonish ShiVe: Look! Squirrel!

    It's possible that people unwillingly turned into women reminds her of the recent accusations by Magus about the treatment received by Ellen.

    She also used a similar concept to keep herself calm during the Magus deal, so one thought could lead to another and open up unpleasant memories. http://egscomics.com/comic/2018-03-12
    Last edited by Vinyadan; 2019-04-19 at 10:20 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by J.R.R. Tolkien, 1955
    I thought Tom Bombadil dreadful — but worse still was the announcer's preliminary remarks that Goldberry was his daughter (!), and that Willowman was an ally of Mordor (!!).

  17. - Top - End - #47
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    Default Re: El Goonish ShiVe: Look! Squirrel!

    Writing involves an awful lot of reading the things you just wrote.
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    Quote Originally Posted by archaeo View Post
    Man, this is just one of those things you see and realize, "I live in a weird and banal future."

  18. - Top - End - #48
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    Default Re: El Goonish ShiVe: Look! Squirrel!

    Another possibility is that, now that she knows such things are actually possible - for her, even, since she's a wizard - just reading or writing about it isn't satisfying anymore. She wants to be learning real magic, and thinking about this sort of thing reminds her that she is not currently learning real magic.

    She may be calling Tedd shortly to ask about doing some magic training with Kevin.
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  19. - Top - End - #49
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    Default Re: El Goonish ShiVe: Look! Squirrel!

    Nah, see: Remember the Prelude to Escape from the Mall? When Pandora was runnin g around marking people?

    She could have given Ashley all kinds of "turn people into things" spells except tha Ashley's moral character was too high for her to ever actually use them to give into her fantasies.

    And in Ashley's stories... Well, she's got the same problem Dan does--serious harm only happens to cartoonishly exaggerated versions of people who could be argued to deserve it.

    I think it's the idea that he can't enjoy something she used to love anymore now that she knows she can actually do it and the sense of moral responsibility...
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  20. - Top - End - #50
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    Default Re: El Goonish ShiVe: Look! Squirrel!

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    Susan seems a real jerk. I can get her wanting to not talk about it due to her personality and to magic being involved with stuff very personal of late (e.g., why she and Diane went to a movie/will go to a movie & not talk about stuff)... so I can excuse some of it, but it seems a reasonable answer is "...well, don't come, I guess? We know you went through a lot and you're our friend, but you don't have to come to everything. Or come and don't join in that conversation. Other stuff will probably come up, too."

    Since it's the ending of a Friday comic and she looks so expressive, I take it this will be a strong plot point for a comic or two. But it seems just strangely overbearing/rude/egocentric.


    I don't like this reading, so please give me another one if you have one.

  21. - Top - End - #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeenLeen View Post
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    Susan seems a real jerk. I can get her wanting to not talk about it due to her personality and to magic being involved with stuff very personal of late (e.g., why she and Diane went to a movie/will go to a movie & not talk about stuff)... so I can excuse some of it, but it seems a reasonable answer is "...well, don't come, I guess? We know you went through a lot and you're our friend, but you don't have to come to everything. Or come and don't join in that conversation. Other stuff will probably come up, too."

    Since it's the ending of a Friday comic and she looks so expressive, I take it this will be a strong plot point for a comic or two. But it seems just strangely overbearing/rude/egocentric.


    I don't like this reading, so please give me another one if you have one.
    I think what might hurt her a bit, which in return triggers her reaction, is that Elliot is all 'hey, you will all help me throw a party for a new friend that's been traumatized by recent events, right?', while seemingly ignoring that Susan is suffering from pretty much the same problems. Arguably, she's had it even worse. It's easy to forget that Susan, despite acting all stoic and unfeeling a lot of the time, does suffer emotionally from events like this. She just tries to cope by bottling it all up and putting it away.

    Anyway, if this is going to be a thing this story-line, I expect Susan's going to blow up over the next page or so, and things'll be mostly resolved in the 2-3 pages after that.
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  22. - Top - End - #52
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    Default Re: El Goonish ShiVe: Look! Squirrel!

    That's a pretty major factor, undoubtedly. There's also the fact that a party involving Tedd with an explicit "get Ashley used to magic" element is almost certain to involve a fair bit of gender changing is probably another. Remember that Susan acted quite a bit out of character last time she was a guy, above and beyond her epiphany about where her attitudes on gender were coming from.

  23. - Top - End - #53
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    Default Re: El Goonish ShiVe: Look! Squirrel!

    I presume that at some point Sam is going to be invited, that should be interesting, maybe he shouldn't come?
    The end of what Son? The story? There is no end. There's just the point where the storytellers stop talking.

  24. - Top - End - #54
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    Default Re: El Goonish ShiVe: Look! Squirrel!

    Quote Originally Posted by Randuir View Post
    I think what might hurt her a bit, which in return triggers her reaction, is that Elliot is all 'hey, you will all help me throw a party for a new friend that's been traumatized by recent events, right?', while seemingly ignoring that Susan is suffering from pretty much the same problems. Arguably, she's had it even worse. It's easy to forget that Susan, despite acting all stoic and unfeeling a lot of the time, does suffer emotionally from events like this. She just tries to cope by bottling it all up and putting it away.

    Anyway, if this is going to be a thing this story-line, I expect Susan's going to blow up over the next page or so, and things'll be mostly resolved in the 2-3 pages after that.
    Basically this. Of everyone present, Susan has had the most similar experience to Ashley in term of "first personal exposure to magic being trsumatic" on top of her dealing with her personal basket of issues from the same night. Yet she isn't getting a personalised suppirt party.

    If this gets turned into a general "support party", that may work for the best in terms of total group cohesion.

  25. - Top - End - #55
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    I'll vent out some negativity.

    The obvious one is "Hey reader, are you looking forward to a recap party?".

    The second one is how slowly this is moving. One whole page to set up a date we didn't see, then one whole page to have the idea of a party. Now a page that accurately examines everyone's feelings about a party proposal. At last, in the yesterday's page, we have something interesting: a weekend-cliffhanger about why Susan doesn't want to talk about magic (I mean, I don't think anyone is holding his breath about the chance that the party doesn't come to be; actually, that could be a good way to create friction drama).

    Panel 5 was unnecessary. The "YOU" in panel 1 could have been bolded, and it would have had the same meaning. And, about panel 3, why insist on the rescheduling of a meeting that has to happen anyway, and would have happened in a way that had something to do with the expected plot (train Ashley)? Panel 4 is a recap of what Elliot and the reader understood during the previous pages.

    I mean, this isn't all bad. As usual, the care Dan puts into depicting his characters is painstaking. We get to see their psychological processes, and they all fit. His characters feel like people you know. But I get the feeling of an absolute lack of propulsion. It doesn't really feel like a story, more like archival footage.

    OK, upon further reflection, it IS a story. The story of an idea. The idea being: "Let's throw a party!". And how uninteresting I find it is probably the only real problem I have with it, and the rest is nitpicking.
    Quote Originally Posted by J.R.R. Tolkien, 1955
    I thought Tom Bombadil dreadful — but worse still was the announcer's preliminary remarks that Goldberry was his daughter (!), and that Willowman was an ally of Mordor (!!).

  26. - Top - End - #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vinyadan View Post
    I'll vent out some negativity.

    The obvious one is "Hey reader, are you looking forward to a recap party?".

    The second one is how slowly this is moving. One whole page to set up a date we didn't see, then one whole page to have the idea of a party. Now a page that accurately examines everyone's feelings about a party proposal. At last, in the yesterday's page, we have something interesting: a weekend-cliffhanger about why Susan doesn't want to talk about magic (I mean, I don't think anyone is holding his breath about the chance that the party doesn't come to be; actually, that could be a good way to create friction drama).

    Panel 5 was unnecessary. The "YOU" in panel 1 could have been bolded, and it would have had the same meaning. And, about panel 3, why insist on the rescheduling of a meeting that has to happen anyway, and would have happened in a way that had something to do with the expected plot (train Ashley)? Panel 4 is a recap of what Elliot and the reader understood during the previous pages.

    I mean, this isn't all bad. As usual, the care Dan puts into depicting his characters is painstaking. We get to see their psychological processes, and they all fit. His characters feel like people you know. But I get the feeling of an absolute lack of propulsion. It doesn't really feel like a story, more like archival footage.

    OK, upon further reflection, it IS a story. The story of an idea. The idea being: "Let's throw a party!". And how uninteresting I find it is probably the only real problem I have with it, and the rest is nitpicking.
    It probably doesn't help that this storyline is basically started on a general sense of "communication needs to be done." rather than a dramatic impluse to give momentum.

  27. - Top - End - #57
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    Default Re: El Goonish ShiVe: Look! Squirrel!

    Quote Originally Posted by Vinyadan View Post
    The second one is how slowly this is moving. One whole page to set up a date we didn't see
    I was happy about that. Probably saved us 20 pages of a date when the important information was summarized in part of a page instead. Dan is getting better. Not perfect, of course (see rest of your post, and how the arc started was to me part of this too) but better.

  28. - Top - End - #58
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    Default Re: El Goonish ShiVe: Look! Squirrel!

    The solution to Ashley's problem is clearly introducing her friend to MAGIC! Then explaining about the evil monster.
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  29. - Top - End - #59
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    Recaps for the Recap God!
    Quote Originally Posted by J.R.R. Tolkien, 1955
    I thought Tom Bombadil dreadful — but worse still was the announcer's preliminary remarks that Goldberry was his daughter (!), and that Willowman was an ally of Mordor (!!).

  30. - Top - End - #60
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    Default Re: El Goonish ShiVe: Look! Squirrel!

    Ashley, embrace the dark side! It has cookies.
    Also extending someone's lifespan by a decade is a very strange sort of revenge.
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