The Order of the Stick: Utterly Dwarfed
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  1. - Top - End - #151
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    Default Re: El Goonish ShiVe: Look! Squirrel!

    Quote Originally Posted by HorizonWalker View Post
    Grace isn't just a human/squirrel hybrid, she's also got a bit of alien in there too. And those aliens, we know for a fact, reproduce via externally-fertilized eggs; that is, eggs that get laid, then get fertilized. It was a big thing, back at the beginning.
    The exact wording was that 1: If Tedd had sex with her in human form, she could get pregnant and 2: When Tedd asked why he specified human, Edward clarified that the scientists who created Grace engineered her so she couldn't get pregnant while transformed.
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  2. - Top - End - #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    The exact wording was that 1: If Tedd had sex with her in human form, she could get pregnant and 2: When Tedd asked why he specified human, Edward clarified that the scientists who created Grace engineered her so she couldn't get pregnant while transformed.
    I'd imagine thats probably a good idea. otherwise she could get pregnant in any number of forms and while the possibility of cute monster children isn't out of the question, there could also be any number of complications arising from the interplay of her unique biology that could be bad for both mother and child. so best just to simplify it so that if she gets pregnant its in a purely human form to play it safe since its the species that she can get pregnant with, and if she wants a weird monster child well, technically laying an uryom egg is not getting pregnant and she, Tedd and whoever else she wants can contribute to whatever crazy hybrid results.

    just imagine that arc! Grace just going around to all the people she wants to contribute genetic material to her uryuom style child and asking them and it being incredibly awkward for everyone involved. then we can timeskip and the child is even more awkward with their dads and moms. it'd be hilarious. that would be the ultimate finale of EGS: the entire cast having to deal with the crazy uryuom child they all contributed to at Graces behest.
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  3. - Top - End - #153
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    Default Re: El Goonish ShiVe: Look! Squirrel!

    Grace's brain makes a good point...
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  4. - Top - End - #154
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    Default Re: El Goonish ShiVe: Look! Squirrel!

    Yea, actually, why isn't she already seeing a therapist? She just underwent some sneaky tests. http://egscomics.com/comic/2004-06-20

    I guess the government assumes that, as long as she is peaceful, it isn't important if she's at peace or not?
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  5. - Top - End - #155
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    Default Re: El Goonish ShiVe: Look! Squirrel!

    Quote Originally Posted by Vinyadan View Post
    Yea, actually, why isn't she already seeing a therapist? She just underwent some sneaky tests. http://egscomics.com/comic/2004-06-20

    I guess the government assumes that, as long as she is peaceful, it isn't important if she's at peace or not?
    More charitably, Verres concluded that she's stable, and is unlikely to suffer additional debilitating effects from her experiences to that point. She's been through a lot since then, and that could easily change a "she's fine" diagnosis into a "she needs help" one.


    Less charitably, Verres probably wasn't properly qualified to examine her in the first place, but we're unlikely to go in that direction.

  6. - Top - End - #156
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    Default Re: El Goonish ShiVe: Look! Squirrel!

    It's been a long time since Grace was at the center of anything overtly serious or traumatic for her personally, it's been what, since Death Sentence? Instead, it seems like she's been accumulating stress internally since then due largely to a struggle to understand how to act in situations as she becomes more and more embedded in human teenage society and in particular as the various secrets that surround her (and frankly everyone else in the group) build up. If anything, she's facing the consequences of all the characters being 'too nice.' She's faced with choices that cannot possibly serve everyone equally, but is paralyzed because everyone is equally awesome and deserving of full respect making it impossible for someone as virtuous as Grace is presented to take sides.
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  7. - Top - End - #157
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    Default Re: El Goonish ShiVe: Look! Squirrel!

    Quote Originally Posted by Gnoman View Post
    More charitably, Verres concluded that she's stable, and is unlikely to suffer additional debilitating effects from her experiences to that point. She's been through a lot since then, and that could easily change a "she's fine" diagnosis into a "she needs help" one.
    Grace's problems used to be "grew up in a lab as some weird experimentation, got in a situation where she had to fight and perhaps even go as far as killing one of the people she grew up with, doesn't know anything about how to live a normal life in society" to "learned a secret about Sarah's boyfriend, and can't blabber about it without breaking his trust".

    Her biggest problem is probably that Dan got so much softer over the year that the later, since it's happening now, is considered a bigger emotional turmoil than the former, because it was happening back when the characters could still be actually hurt.
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  8. - Top - End - #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gez View Post
    Her biggest problem is probably that Dan got so much softer over the year that the later, since it's happening now, is considered a bigger emotional turmoil than the former, because it was happening back when the characters could still be actually hurt.
    Yeah. This is why while I still read and enjoy the comic, I don't really recommend it. When things are going well (see Abraham's arc) you expect one sort of series that doesn't really turn out.

  9. - Top - End - #159
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    Default Re: El Goonish ShiVe: Look! Squirrel!

    Quote Originally Posted by Mith View Post
    Yeah. This is why while I still read and enjoy the comic, I don't really recommend it. When things are going well (see Abraham's arc) you expect one sort of series that doesn't really turn out.
    Honestly, if this comic wasn't so gay, I'd have probably dropped it.
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  10. - Top - End - #160
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    Default Re: El Goonish ShiVe: Look! Squirrel!

    Grace presumably doesn't have therapy becuase 90% of the things she'd need it for are classified government secrets.

    As has been building up for the last couple of arcs, Grace doesn't like hiding who she is but is worried about people reacting to her beign part space-alien.

    She can't get counseling for that unless she reveals to someone that she's part alien and hiding it from people.

    Furthermore, survivors guilt and not being able to help is a reccuring theme in Grace's narrative: She feels guilty about not doing anything to Damien as a child. She feels guilty about people Damien hurt in the interim. She feels guilty about her friends getting hurt becuase she ran away from Damien and he forced her brothers to look for her. She felt guilty about her firneds and family being hurt becuase they went to rescue Damien...

    She felt guilty about falling asleep when Abraham put his sleep spell on the school so he cold Get Ellen and people being hurt and almost killed becuase of it.

    Whenever one of Grace's friends is in danger and she's not there to help, she feels bad about it--to the point that Ellen assumes that's what Grace means when Grace is asking for advice about what to do about something else.

    And implies that Ellen feels the same way about the Siser III incident.

    That's been addressed, but none of it has ever been fully resolved.

    So all of that boiling up inside her, the guilt and anxiety that comes from surviving when others didn't or not being there to protect the friends that are weaker than you...

    and then you get other sources of guilt and anxiety and they feel so much worse becuase they're sitting on top of more deep-seated stuff...

    Trust me, as someone who occasionally deals with bad anxiety, that's probably Grace's problem.
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  11. - Top - End - #161
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    Default Re: El Goonish ShiVe: Look! Squirrel!

    Quote Originally Posted by Gnoman View Post
    More charitably, Verres concluded that she's stable, and is unlikely to suffer additional debilitating effects from her experiences to that point. She's been through a lot since then, and that could easily change a "she's fine" diagnosis into a "she needs help" one.


    Less charitably, Verres probably wasn't properly qualified to examine her in the first place, but we're unlikely to go in that direction.
    The tests Mr. Verres did were to check, if Grace can safely interact with society in general. It is unlikely that he did a throughout test for psychological trauma, anxieties and other things that do require therapy but not a visit to a psychiatric hospital. This can not be done in a sneaky fashion, since it requires an open discussion with the patient about the issues.

    This page is relevant I think. I do not believe it was ever mentioned again, so it is hard to say, if she did get some therapy going and how well it worked. Still, what Rater202 wrote is a good explanation anyway, since at the core Grace is and will always be overtly sensitive to hurting people or just seeing them getting hurt. Therapy might help her not be crippled by all those issues, but they will never fully go away.
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  12. - Top - End - #162
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    Default Re: El Goonish ShiVe: Look! Squirrel!

    Somethign I just remembered: In addition to being sensitive to people being hurt and suffering a great deal of guilty for people being hurt, GRace canonically has psychic emotion-sensing powers.

    They're dulled when her antenna are away, but there's no indication that they're not always there--quite the opposite, Grace is explicitly stated to Tedd becuase of his emotions and is demonstrably still attracted to him when her Antenna isn't present.

    When you don't like it when people are hurt and you can constantly sense at least a little bit of people's emotions, you're gonna be extra extra sensitive about minding their feelings, which can be fdifficiult when you get embroiled in typical teenage drama.
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  13. - Top - End - #163
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    Default Re: El Goonish ShiVe: Look! Squirrel!

    I had forgotten about this little scene with Liz: http://egscomics.com/comic/2008-07-09
    Quote Originally Posted by J.R.R. Tolkien, 1955
    I thought Tom Bombadil dreadful but worse still was the announcer's preliminary remarks that Goldberry was his daughter (!), and that Willowman was an ally of Mordor (!!).

  14. - Top - End - #164
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    Default Re: El Goonish ShiVe: Look! Squirrel!

    On the most recent EGS: NP
    "I mean we're ridiculous but its cute when we do it!"-Tedd

    So EGS is a magical girl manga? this explains everything.
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  15. - Top - End - #165
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    Default Re: El Goonish ShiVe: Look! Squirrel!

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    On the most recent EGS: NP
    "I mean we're ridiculous but its cute when we do it!"-Tedd

    So EGS is a magical girl manga? this explains everything.
    You only just realized it?

    This became a Magical girl story the second Elliot literally turned into a girl with magic-based superhuman abillities for the sake of fighting off a super-powered attacker.

    ...So, Tedd's seen Elliot cast that spell, right?

    Becuase Tedd has said on more than one occasion that she wants to be involved in the various super battles that her friends get caught up in(it's why he made the Gauntlet and everything) but has never gotten a chance to.

    I could totally see her making a bunch of wands/watches/whatevs and storing them in a pocketed article, then creating his own custom magical girl version of the Cheerleadra spell while wearing said article(and merging the wands into himself the way Elliot got Cell Phone powers) so as to have the ability to get involved in these things.
    Last edited by Rater202; 2019-07-24 at 04:38 PM.
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  16. - Top - End - #166
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    Default Re: El Goonish ShiVe: Look! Squirrel!

    I don't know why, but Tedd looks really off-model in this NP strip. She looks more like Sarah to me for some reason.

  17. - Top - End - #167
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    Default Re: El Goonish ShiVe: Look! Squirrel!

    Quote Originally Posted by Gnoman View Post
    I don't know why, but Tedd looks really off-model in this NP strip. She looks more like Sarah to me for some reason.
    I think Tedd is in a specific form rather than just using a girly morph.

    Probably playing around with watches or the TF gun.
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  18. - Top - End - #168
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    Default Re: El Goonish ShiVe: Look! Squirrel!

    Why is Ellen sitting in the back?
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  19. - Top - End - #169
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    Default Re: El Goonish ShiVe: Look! Squirrel!

    Quote Originally Posted by Celestia View Post
    Why is Ellen sitting in the back?
    They're playing Batmans and Butlers.
    Quote Originally Posted by J.R.R. Tolkien, 1955
    I thought Tom Bombadil dreadful but worse still was the announcer's preliminary remarks that Goldberry was his daughter (!), and that Willowman was an ally of Mordor (!!).

  20. - Top - End - #170
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    Default Re: El Goonish ShiVe: Look! Squirrel!

    So... We know from the Mall date storyline that Ashley had an online girlfriend that she used to RP with as sorceresses who could transform but they broke up after it became clear that they were never gonna meet IRL.

    Tedd and Ashley probably frequent the same forums and I could totally see a pre-tf gun (who looked to be between 12-14) Tedd pretending to be a girl online as a method of coping with the issues that come with having a fluid gender identity.

    There is a strip talking about the possibility of Ashley being attracted to Tedd with Dan's commentary being about foreshadowing.

    I'm calling it: Tedd was Ashley's internet girlfriend, comments will be made that will lead to them figuring it out during the party, and it will cause awkwardness.
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  21. - Top - End - #171
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    Default Re: El Goonish ShiVe: Look! Squirrel!

    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    So... We know from the Mall date storyline that Ashley had an online girlfriend that she used to RP with as sorceresses who could transform but they broke up after it became clear that they were never gonna meet IRL.

    Tedd and Ashley probably frequent the same forums and I could totally see a pre-tf gun (who looked to be between 12-14) Tedd pretending to be a girl online as a method of coping with the issues that come with having a fluid gender identity.

    There is a strip talking about the possibility of Ashley being attracted to Tedd with Dan's commentary being about foreshadowing.

    I'm calling it: Tedd was Ashley's internet girlfriend, comments will be made that will lead to them figuring it out during the party, and it will cause awkwardness.
    That could be interesting.
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  22. - Top - End - #172
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    Default Re: El Goonish ShiVe: Look! Squirrel!

    Quote Originally Posted by Celestia View Post
    Why is Ellen sitting in the back?
    Dan answered it on Twitter, it's because they are heading to pick up Ashley, and it avoids rounds of musical car seats.

  23. - Top - End - #173
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    Default Re: El Goonish ShiVe: Look! Squirrel!

    Hmm. The NP strips are playing on chemistry between Elliot and Tedd (which has been suggested before), and one of last week's main strips suggested that there might be significant chemistry between Ashley and Tedd. Wonder if that's a coincidence.

  24. - Top - End - #174
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    Default Re: El Goonish ShiVe: Look! Squirrel!

    Remember, Secret of Sam established that Grace would enjoy a scenario where everyone lived together and slept together on a giant bean bag.

    Though I'm leaning toward "Tedd was Ashley's online girlfriend and that causing awkward."

    Or, curveball option, Grace's siblings choose the worst possible time for a surprise visit and end up spilling the "aliens" stuff. I've got no basis for that one, I just think it'd be neat.
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  25. - Top - End - #175
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    Default Re: El Goonish ShiVe: Look! Squirrel!

    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    Remember, Secret of Sam established that Grace would enjoy a scenario where everyone lived together and slept together on a giant bean bag.
    I had forgotten about that - which does remove the potential Big Huge Drama device that I wouldn't expect Shive to use in the first place.

  26. - Top - End - #176
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    Default Re: El Goonish ShiVe: Look! Squirrel!

    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    Or, curveball option, Grace's siblings choose the worst possible time for a surprise visit and end up spilling the "aliens" stuff. I've got no basis for that one, I just think it'd be neat.
    I'm pretty sure they were put on a bus. I would be legitimately surprised if we ever see or hear about them ever again.
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  27. - Top - End - #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    Remember, Secret of Sam established that Grace would enjoy a scenario where everyone lived together and slept together on a giant bean bag.
    I would still not surprised if the pseudo-poly relationship stuff leads to Grace's uryuom child later in life. just...an overpowered child of all the characters, it would be so in character for her. because all this connection has to lead up to something and if they're comfortable enough with it, it could happen.
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  28. - Top - End - #178
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    Default Re: El Goonish ShiVe: Look! Squirrel!

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    I would still not surprised if the pseudo-poly relationship stuff leads to Grace's uryuom child later in life. just...an overpowered child of all the characters, it would be so in character for her. because all this connection has to lead up to something and if they're comfortable enough with it, it could happen.
    How would she... do that? Why do you think she can create uryuom eggs? There's never been any indication she can do that, and she doesn't appear to even have an uryuom form that could conceivably give her the ability.
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  29. - Top - End - #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yuki Akuma View Post
    How would she... do that? Why do you think she can create uryuom eggs? There's never been any indication she can do that, and she doesn't appear to even have an uryuom form that could conceivably give her the ability.
    she could simply ask for one from another uryuom who might not want to use it, they're hollow things and determine entirely by whatever genetic material is put into it, and uryuoms are MORE advanced than humans so I'm pretty sure they have an uryuom equivalent of sperm banks.
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  30. - Top - End - #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yuki Akuma View Post
    How would she... do that? Why do you think she can create uryuom eggs? There's never been any indication she can do that, and she doesn't appear to even have an uryuom form that could conceivably give her the ability.
    Back in painted black it was explicitly stated that Grace could be used to breed an entire army of Chimera in a single generation because her Uryoum DNA came from the scientist who was working on Project Lycanthrope, who had a mutation that meant that he could produce enough material to create an egg by himself.

    That's explicitly the reason why Damien wanted her--he wanted to use her to breed an army.
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