OOTS #1159 - The Discussion Thread

[Resileaf]

The Nightcrawler is a melee specialist fighting in the open. It has some offensive spells, so it is far from helpless, but this is not its best kind of fight. It can cast Deeper Darkness, which would slow down Haley and V, but not stop them from killing it. It is quite nasty in the dark/fog when it can use its Tremorsense, but then they can just fly right past and through the door.

The Nightcrawler can become invisible at will. Haley can't shoot what she can't see.

[Ghosty]

The Nightcrawler is a melee specialist fighting in the open. It has some offensive spells, so it is far from helpless, but this is not its best kind of fight. It can cast Deeper Darkness, which would slow down Haley and V, but not stop them from killing it. It is quite nasty in the dark/fog when it can use its Tremorsense, but then they can just fly right past and through the door.

Mass Hold Monster might put a crick in that move, especially if V's Mind Blank got taken away with a GDM, if that's possible. Then it's a charging LDW, eager to swallow and snack on 30-some odd levels of life energy.

[Ghosty]

On the Disjunction argument, I think it's been mentioned here before (like seemingly everything else, really), but I could see V running afoul of this at the very end of the entire tale. Specifically, trying to disjoin the Crimson Mantle, although if s/he might be called upon to try and disjoin the last Gate, it might apply there instead.

The first would certainly bring the Dark One by for a chat, which the Order might need, if RedCloak was being unreceptive to working on Thor's plan. Losing V's powers permanently would make it more

[Ghosty]

Damn it, fat-fingered submit early. Anyway, V'd have a tougher time atoning for hir sins with Familicide, but might find it easier to reconnect with hir mate and their family. V's neglected hir social skills in the pursuit of absolute arcane power, but the nice thing about being an Elf is that you have a lot of time in which to change your life.

Well, at least until Vs enemies show up.

[Leftour]

Who knew giant death-worms could see through invisibility? Also, glad the Order is here; the action is about to begin again!

Technically the purpose of invisibility is that the others see through it

[Snails]

Technically the purpose of invisibility is that the others see through it

You win the thread.

[Rogar Demonblud]

I am curious about whether they slept, too. But on the whole, it probably does not matter much. Gontor and the recent recruits would have burned spells during these various raids, too.

If this is happening at 10am (for argument's sake), they could have been preparing spells at 9am. Under the eight hour rule, any spell slos cast before 1am could be refilled. Are they missing a few? Likely, especially given Hilgya and her Resurrection-Flame Strike-Raise Dead combo. But the vampires are likely running a trifle short as well, especially Bluegown who took part in the Feast Hall Battle.

[Snails]

Haley's attack bonuses
BAB --> +12
Dex 26 --> +8
magic bow --> +5
Haste --> +1
Rapid Shot --> -2

Net +24/+24/+24/+19/+14 with 1d8+5 damage

Going with averages against AC 35, 0.5 + 0.5 + 0.5 + 0.25 + 0.05 = 1.8 hits per round X 9.5 damage = 17.1 damage per round.

So at face value that is 12-13 rounds to whittle away 212 HP. There are a number of tricks she could use to boost her attacks, e.g. a Prayer boosts average damage to 21.5 per round.

So soloing this thing as a flying archer is doable by Haley in 10 rounds, assuming some modest amount of buffing.

But obviously V will not twiddle hir thumbs for 10 rounds.

[Larre Gannd]

Haley's attack bonuses
BAB --> +12
Dex 26 --> +8
magic bow --> +5
Haste --> +1
Rapid Shot --> -2

Net +24/+24/+24/+19/+14 with 1d8+5 damage

Going with averages against AC 35, 0.5 + 0.5 + 0.5 + 0.25 + 0.05 = 1.8 hits per round X 9.5 damage = 17.1 damage per round.

So at face value that is 12-13 rounds to whittle away 212 HP. There are a number of tricks she could use to boost her attacks, e.g. a Prayer boosts average damage to 21.5 per round.

So soloing this thing as a flying archer is doable by Haley in 10 rounds, assuming some modest amount of buffing.

But obviously V will not twiddle hir thumbs for 10 rounds.

Don’t forget the Exarch. He too, will not twiddle his thumbs.

[Zack Norglad]

The Death Worm/Nightcrawler is awesome. It is my new favorite ^throaway character.

[NoHaxJustPi]

Haley’s Dex modifier is +5 according to the Class And Level Geekery thread. Attack bonuses are 21/21/21/16/11 with 1d8+5 damage (avg 9.5). AC 35 means that it takes a roll of 14/14/14/19/20 per shot. 0.35/0.35/0.35/0.1/0.05 are the odds for each shot. 1.2*9.5 = 11.4 damage per round. +1 from prayer means +0.2 attacks per round on average. 13.3 damage/round with prayer means it’ll take a bit less than 2min to kill a nightcrawler. V and possibly the rest are definitely going to assist the fight.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

If this is happening at 10am (for argument's sake), they could have been preparing spells at 9am. Under the eight hour rule, any spell slos cast before 1am could be refilled. Are they missing a few? Likely, especially given Hilgya and her Resurrection-Flame Strike-Raise Dead combo. But the vampires are likely running a trifle short as well, especially Bluegown who took part in the Feast Hall Battle.

Given how many spells the vampires spammed in the pre-dusk battles and still had plenty in the post-dusk one, I suspect that in OotS the rule that you can't refresh slots used in the 8 hours prior to the refresh has been home-ruled out of existence.

Grey Wolf

[Jasdoif]

Isn't there some meta magic juju, but for turning, where the Cleric's effective level for turning is a lot higher? Or some prestige class/combination of feats that accomplishes the same thing?

None of which Durkon or Hilgya have (so far as we know) so a moot point.

Improved Turning Feat but it only increases by on level. A Cleric would have to be 20th level.

Yeah; this is more like a job for a phylactery of undead turning and its +4. Even that would need some extra help in this particular situation, though.

[Fitzclowningham]

It would be interesting if one of Haley's wands was Dimension Door...

[Snails]

Haley’s Dex modifier is +5 according to the Class And Level Geekery thread. Attack bonuses are 21/21/21/16/11 with 1d8+5 damage (avg 9.5). AC 35 means that it takes a roll of 14/14/14/19/20 per shot. 0.35/0.35/0.35/0.1/0.05 are the odds for each shot. 1.2*9.5 = 11.4 damage per round. +1 from prayer means +0.2 attacks per round on average. 13.3 damage/round with prayer means it’ll take a bit less than 2min to kill a nightcrawler. V and possibly the rest are definitely going to assist the fight.

The class geekery thread only declares "truths" as defined by those things for which strong evidence exists for, not that which is most likely to turn out to be true, if only we could tie The Giant to a desk and force him to write stat blocks with the inducement of a nerf gun pointed at his back.

If Haley, as a Rogue classed character with options for stat dumping and focusing her magic item acquisition, were to start with a Dex 16, she would likely have a Dex 20 by now, without any magical enhancement. She bragged about leveling up after the gnome city adventuring, and she had already demonstrated the ability to Rapid Shot for 4 arrows in previous adventures, thus proving she had a BAB +11 then (Rogue 15). Since she was 15th level before the final showdown with Crystal, she would be 16th level and BAB +12 now. 16th level also gives her a 4th stat boost, pushing her Dex to 20.

Of course, that all assumes no magic and other factors. Haley may well have started with an 18 Dex. She could also have a +4 or +6 Dex magic item -- she could readily "afford" such a thing. And if all else fails, someone could cast Cat's Grace on her for this battle for the cost of a cheap little 2nd level spell slot. Or she could even have a wand.

Thus Haley's Dex is surely at least 24 for the worm fight, and could easily be higher.

Don’t forget the Exarch. He too, will not twiddle his thumbs.

I suppose.

As for the Exarch, if he stays and fights here, that is probably a good thing for the Order. (1) He is not in the main chamber where the vote is taking place (and where Durkon is probably heading towards right now). (2) He is a fat target for V, who would prefer to cast at something without hefty SR. (3) In fact, the Exarch staying put would draw Haley's attention, too, and she would probably just ignore the big worm for the immediate moment.

[zimmerwald1915]

Given how many spells the vampires spammed in the pre-dawn battles and still had plenty in the post-dawn one, I suspect that in OotS the rule that you can't refresh slots used in the 8 hours prior to the refresh has been home-ruled out of existence.

Grey Wolf

That or the vampires are high-level enough to have a lot of spells.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

That or the vampires are high-level enough to have a lot of spells.

Most of them were mere minor clerics. It's been established often enough that most cities simply don't have large numbers of high-level NPCs.

But yes, that is always a possibility.

Grey Wolf

[Kareasint]

Yeah; this is more like a job for a phylactery of undead turning and its +4. Even that would need some extra help in this particular situation, though.

Good catch. I had not thought to look for a magic item to assist. That brings it down to needing a 16th level cleric. Not as bad but still not going to work. This is a pretty nasty fight for non epic PCs.

[Jasdoif]

Good catch. I had not thought to look for a magic item to assist.

Honestly, there's only one reason I knew about that one.

[Ghosty]

Honestly, there's only one reason I knew about that one.

Damn you. I blame my future sleeplessness tonight on your post.

(How have I not heard of this comic before now?)

[dmc91356]

Oh my god, I hate you. I don't have TIME for a new webcomic, but that is freakin' hilarious!

Damn you banana, damn you . . .

[Seward]

The Nightcrawler can become invisible at will. Haley can't shoot what she can't see.

It can't be invisible when it's in range of the invisiblity purge. Could be the Exarch vamp just hosed his own ally a little.

[Snails]

It can't be invisible when it's in range of the invisiblity purge. Could be the Exarch vamp just hosed his own ally a little.

You are, of course, correct. But for something that large, it is not necessary super hard to guess a square that it is in (and suck up the 50% miss chance).

Holy Moley, Batman! That thing has a Hide +16 and Move Silently +28. Can you imagine this Invisible Burrowing Moving Silent monster bursting out of the floor and then opening up the combat with a quickened Cone of Cold and swallowing the party wizard during the surprise round?

Yes, the Nightcrawler is potentially really badass. But standing out in the open guarding a door is far outside where its strengths lie.

[Fyraltari]

Given how many spells the vampires spammed in the pre-dawn battles and still had plenty in the post-dawn one, I suspect that in OotS the rule that you can't refresh slots used in the 8 hours prior to the refresh has been home-ruled out of existence.

Grey Wolf

? This is the first post dawn battle. Besides, they refresh their spells at dusk.

[Resileaf]

It can't be invisible when it's in range of the invisiblity purge. Could be the Exarch vamp just hosed his own ally a little.

If the Exarch returns into the building, his invisibility purge spell will disappear because of the orange barrier.

[Kareasint]

Honestly, there's only one reason I knew about that one.

Yeah, I can see that.

Also, I now have to award you XP for multiple victims with a single forum post (Ghosty and DMC).

[Grey_Wolf_c]

? This is the first post dawn battle. Besides, they refresh their spells at dusk.

I meant dusk.

Sorry!

Grey Wolf

[Xel]

Oh dear. Of course it’s *gard*ing the entrance to the *mid*dle chamber. Practically can wrap around the whole structure. And is a long, wriggly, footless creature — rather serpent-like.

Obviously the guy wielding the hammer of thunderbolts will have to go toe-to-tail with it...

[Borris]

I still believe Durkon (along with Hilgya and maybe Minrah) will be too busy dealing with the vampires in the dwarf-only area to stay and fight the nightcrawler with the rest of the Order.

[understatement]

Minrah is on my favorite supporting-character list, but what are her spells going to do against the worm and the vampires? She might just wounded up being killed again.

I feel like she'd be better placed guarding the Temple of Thor along with the other acolytes, in case something goes wrong.