Str based Rogue Thug build?

[MThurston]

1. Str will be used as the main stat with Cha the second best stat.

2. Dex max of 14 to multiclass.

3. No Dex based skills taken.

4. Any race and you can use S.A. or PB for stats.

I'm looking for a Thug character. Intimidation is the name of the game and being able to use Str to push them around.

[JNAProductions]

Are you looking for brew? In which case I've got a class you'd be interested in.

Or just by the books? In which case, you might want a one-level dip into Fighter (or anything else that grants Medium Armor) so your AC ain't crap, and Expertise in Athletics and Intimidation. Goliath is probably a good pick, for the size factor and stat bonuses, or Half-Orc (for free Intimidation proficiency).

[CTurbo]

I love the idea and it's doable but I'm seeing a couple of issues right off.

1. It's gonna be MAD since you want a high Str and Cha plus at least a 14 Dex and Con. Mountain Dwarf, regular Human, and Half-Elf get you 16 Str, 14 Dex, 14 Con, 8 Int, 10 Wis, and 14 Cha pretty easily. You have to drop down to 12 Con if you want to start with 16 Cha.
2. You want medium armor at least if not heavy armor which requires either multiclassing, taking the Moderately Armored feat, or being a race that provides medium armor.
3. I could see this as being feat heavy while also wanting ASIs too. (if you want Shield Master + Moderately Armored for example)


The three easiest ways to pull this off is be Vhuman with Moderately Armored to start and just stay pure Rogue, go Mountain Dwarf and stay pure Rogue, or take one level of Fighter/Paladin and then go Rogue. I think a single Fighter level is superior to a single Paladin level. I'd start Fighter for Heavy Armor IMO.

The rest is pretty simple. Get Str maxed, maybe add some Cha. Take Shield Master if you like that route. Menacing is a fun feat idea for this.

3-5 levels of Battlerager Barbarian and then go Rogue would be a lot of fun for a build like this.

[Man_Over_Game]

1. Str will be used as the main stat with Cha the second best stat.

2. Dex max of 14 to multiclass.

3. No Dex based skills taken.

4. Any race and you can use S.A. or PB for stats.

I'm looking for a Thug character. Intimidation is the name of the game and being able to use Str to push them around.

The closest you'll honestly get is probably using some kind of Dwarven Mafia Thug, with Battlerager Barbarian levels. This means you'll have decent survivability without relying on Dex, and you'll have Reckless Attack to grant yourself your own Sneak Attacks as needed. You can grapple targets with your high Athletics ability with Advantage, and deal damage as you do so. Reckless Attack will also heal you with the Battlerager features. Go Rogue Scout for some awesome mobility that'll activate constantly, due to the fact that you'll always have an enemy adjacent to you (due to grappling them).

If your DM doesn't care about the racial requirement for Battlerager, a Half-Orc would suit you perfectly, and comes with Intimidate already with the Race.

[Edit]Ninja'd by Turbo.

[Quoz]

Works great as a grappler with expertise. Any race with high Str is good, large build helps a lot depending on GM interpretation on size and grappling/carrying. Take tavern brawler and use a shiv (improvised weapon w/dagger stats) to grab as bonus action. A 1-2 level dip in barbarian adds a lot later on with medium armor, Rage and Reckless Attack.

[NaughtyTiger]

I got the perfect build for you:

Race: Dragonborn, Black
Class: Rogue
Background: City Watch

S 16, D 13, C 12, I 8, W 10, Ch 16
Init +1, A.C. 12

Athletics ×2 = 7, Insight = 2, Persuasion = 5, Intimidation ×2 = 7.

You will also know locations if thieves dens and constables.

2nd level take Fighter with Defensive Fighting Style.

Buy a Shield and Chain Mail and your A.C. jumps to 19.

Take the remaining levels in rogue taking Swashbuckler to add Cha mod to init. Init now +4.

You can also solo people with your 19 A.C. and still get sneak attack.

Very strong build.

[CheddarChampion]

Variant Human for moderately armored, use a finesse weapon with strength, expertise in athletics and intimidation, take shield master at Lvl 4 to knock prone -> attack at advantage -> sneak attack.

Alternatively a Human barbarian 5 rogue 15 with reckless attack: 16/14/14/10/11/14.

Edit: Shadowmonked

[stoutstien]

1. Str will be used as the main stat with Cha the second best stat.

2. Dex max of 14 to multiclass.

3. No Dex based skills taken.

4. Any race and you can use S.A. or PB for stats.

I'm looking for a Thug character. Intimidation is the name of the game and being able to use Str to push them around.

So human variant fighter (pirate background) with the prodigy feat? With shield Master that is up 5 shove a turn before action surge.
Bonus points for wearing a purple tabard

[MThurston]

I got the perfect build for you:

LOL. I really want to see what people come up with for a none Dex bases rogue thug.

[stoutstien]

LOL. I really want to see what people come up with for a none Dex bases rogue thug.

You probably need to change original post to reflect that you are looking for a rogue based character.

[JNAProductions]

You probably need to change original post to reflect that you are looking for a rogue based character.

To be fair, it is in the title.

[MThurston]

I think a Goliath would be cool. I have never seen anyone make them a rogue.

[MThurston]

First level Fighter, 2nd Level and beyond Rogue.

Race: Goliath
Style: Defensive
S 16, D 13, C 14, I 9, W 10, Ch 14
A.C. 19, Init 1

Athletics 7, Stealth 3, Animal Handling 2, Insight 2, Deception 4, Intimidation 6

Criminal Background
Animal Handling for dogs. Big ones.

Rogue subclass Swashbuckler to get bonus init and stand alone Sneak Attack.


At 4th level Rogue add 1 to Dex and Int.
At 8th level Rogue would it be a bad idea to take Magic Initiate to get Guidance to help with disadvantage stealth rolls with plate or just take a +1 Str?

With sneak attack the Str bonus doesn't do much for damage but would help to hit.

[Arkhios]

First level Fighter, 2nd Level and beyond Rogue.

Race: Goliath
S 16, D 13, C 14, I 9, W 10, Ch 14
A.C. 19, Init 1

Athletics 7, Stealth 3, Animal Handling 2, Insight 2, Deception 4, Intimidation 6

Criminal Background
Animal Handling for dogs. Big ones.

Rogue subclass Swashbuckler to get bonus init and stand alone Sneak Attack.


At 4th level Rogue add 1 to Dex and Int.
At 8th level Rogue would it be a bad idea to take Magic Initiate to get Guidance to help with disadvantage stealth rolls with plate or just take a +1 Str?

With sneak attack the Str bonus doesn't do much for damage but would help to hit.

Seems pretty good, actually.

Allow me to suggest one more level in fighter and take Cavalier Archetype. Disregarding Born to the Saddle feature, Cavalier seems very flavorful for a thug-like character.
Plus, Swashbuckler is a good match for an up-close-and-personal tactic, which the Cavalier is more than capable of doing. Especially with their Unwavering Mark ability.

[MThurston]

Seems pretty good, actually.

Allow me to suggest one more level in fighter and take Cavalier Archetype. Disregarding Born to the Saddle feature, Cavalier seems very flavorful for a thug-like character.
Plus, Swashbuckler is a good match for an up-close-and-personal tactic, which the Cavalier is more than capable of doing. Especially with their Unwavering Mark ability.

You would have to go 3 levels into fighter, but it would give you action surge.

[NaughtyTiger]

Athletics 7, Stealth 3, Animal Handling 2, Insight 2, Deception 4, Intimidation 6

violated OP's rule #3: "3. No Dex based skills taken."

otherwise, yeah, it's good.

[MThurston]

violated OP's rule #3: "3. No Dex based skills taken."

otherwise, yeah, it's good.

Freaking Criminal made me take it. Bastards!

[Nhorianscum]

1. Str will be used as the main stat with Cha the second best stat.

2. Dex max of 14 to multiclass.

3. No Dex based skills taken.

4. Any race and you can use S.A. or PB for stats.

I'm looking for a Thug character. Intimidation is the name of the game and being able to use Str to push them around.

Thief 17/Revised ranger 1/Barb2. Pick humanoids as favored enemy, wood elf for pwot or goliath for suplexing.

[Arkhios]

You would have to go 3 levels into fighter, but it would give you action surge.

Ah, my mistake. I read you said Fighter 2 and the rest in rogue. But yeah. You'd lose Elusive, 5th ASI, and 10th sneak attack die, but Action Surge is pretty darn good to get too.
But, just one level of fighter would be good as well.

[MThurston]

Thief 17/Revised ranger 1/Barb2. Pick humanoids as favored enemy, wood elf for pwot or goliath for suplexing.

This would take Plate Mail out of the equation.

[Nhorianscum]

This would take Plate Mail out of the equation.

Not really, if for some reason you just really want plate, grab the heavily armored feat.

[Arkhios]

Not really, if for some reason you just really want plate, grab the heavily armored feat.

That would be unwise. Barbarian doesn't get any of the benefits of rage when using heavy armor, only the hindrances.

[MThurston]

That would be unwise. Barbarian doesn't get any of the benefits of rage when using heavy armor, only the hindrances.

Also would lose the Defense Fighting style.

[Arkhios]

Also would lose the Defense Fighting style.

True. Fighter is the only class that gets fighting style at first level.

[Nhorianscum]

That would be unwise. Barbarian doesn't get any of the benefits of rage when using heavy armor, only the hindrances.

To be fair, we also can't really sneak efficently in plate either.

[Arkhios]

To be fair, we also can't really sneak efficently in plate either.

Indeed. Luckily, to be able to deal sneak attack damage doesn't require being sneaky.

[MThurston]

Indeed. Luckily, to be able to deal sneak attack damage doesn't require being sneaky.

Which, thank the Gods, isn't required.

[strangebloke]

So, you're going to go Swashbuckler, because its good and gives you bonuses for that high charisma. You're going to want medium armor at least, which means mountain dwarf or the moderately armored feat. This constrains your options a lot.

Overall, you'll be quite effective.


Mountain Dwarf Swashbuckler
16/14/14/8/10/14
AC 17 at level 1 (half plate)
Expertise: athletics and intimidation, then deception later on.
feats:N/A
weapons: two short swords, darts.

Just walk up to people and deck them. Simple and to the point.


Dragonborn Swashbuckler
17/14/14/8/8/14 (actually one point over point buy. Ask if you can buy down int one more. Otherwise drop DEX by two points)
AC: 14 at level 1, 19 (half-plate + shield) at level 4
Expertise:athletics and intimidation, then deception later on.
feats: Moderately armored. In the future, consider Dragon Fear and Shield Master as well.
weapons: short swords, or a short sword and a shield. Darts.

More resilient than the dwarf if you start at level 4 or higher, and has more interesting feat options at higher levels, IMO.

vhuman Swashbuckler
16/14/14/8/9/14
AC: 19 at level 1 (half-plate + shield)
Expertise:athletics and intimidation, then deception later on.
feats: Moderately armored at level 1, shield master at level 4.
weapons: short swords, or a short sword and a shield. Darts.

This is the master pusher and mover. If your DM doesn't care about errata, push em prone before attacking for free advantage. Gets to be really resilient at level 1, which is a big deal. Probably the best all-rounder here, and lets you push people around the most.

[MThurston]

So, you're going to go Swashbuckler, because its good and gives you bonuses for that high charisma. You're going to want medium armor at least, which means mountain dwarf or the moderately armored feat. This constrains your options a lot.

Overall, you'll be quite effective.


Mountain Dwarf Swashbuckler
16/14/14/8/10/14
AC 17 at level 1 (half plate)
Expertise: athletics and intimidation, then deception later on.
feats:N/A
weapons: two short swords, darts.

Just walk up to people and deck them. Simple and to the point.


Dragonborn Swashbuckler
17/14/14/8/8/14 (actually one point over point buy. Ask if you can buy down int one more. Otherwise drop DEX by two points)
AC: 14 at level 1, 19 (half-plate + shield) at level 4
Expertise:athletics and intimidation, then deception later on.
feats: Moderately armored. In the future, consider Dragon Fear and Shield Master as well.
weapons: short swords, or a short sword and a shield. Darts.

More resilient than the dwarf if you start at level 4 or higher, and has more interesting feat options at higher levels, IMO.

vhuman Swashbuckler
16/14/14/8/9/14
AC: 19 at level 1 (half-plate + shield)
Expertise:athletics and intimidation, then deception later on.
feats: Moderately armored at level 1, shield master at level 4.
weapons: short swords, or a short sword and a shield. Darts.

This is the master pusher and mover. If your DM doesn't care about errata, push em prone before attacking for free advantage. Gets to be really resilient at level 1, which is a big deal. Probably the best all-rounder here, and lets you push people around the most.

All good choices but I want to use Plate and I want a +1 to A.C. from the Defense Fighting style.

[Meichrob7]

I gotcha something old buddy old pal. Its actually the character Im currently running in waterdeep but won't really take off till the second 5-20 book.

Berserker 3 and Rogue whatever for the rest. Swashbuckler is good with maybe something like dragonborn that has some cha or even perhaps the str Aasimar. Swashbuckler is really really good because it basically means that the only time you won't get to make a sneak attack is when you're alone against 2+ enemies. Iv1 and with an ally you get to do sneak attack damage. If you dont need as much Charisma then the longtooth shifter is +1dex+2str and gets intimidation. Bugbears have the same stat buffs and get some more free damage when surprising enemies and get some added reach. Bugbears especially work well with classes besides Swashbuckler because their arms mean you don't need to disengage as often, but thats wasted on Swash because that class already has a free disengage if an attack hits.

The oh so amazing part of this build lies in the simple fact that the rules of sneak attack restrict you to once per turn. The most reliable way to abuse this is to ready an attack as an action and take an attack with a bonus action. Berserker barbarian is the most reliable way to do this, arcane tricksters can really late via haste, if you have a scimitar of speed and get proficiency for it then thats another way, and sorcerers can by quickening one of the melee weapon attack cantrips. Note that Two weapon fighting won't work because you're taking the ready action not the attack action. Berserker's bonus action attack is unique here in that you get it early, it doesn't need you to make an attack action, and you don't use up a ton of resources (spellslots/sorcery points to quicken) every time you use the combo.

Some bonus fun is thrown in because you can reckless attack to gain advantage if you can't get your sneak attacks working otherwise, and whenever you aren't burning your reaction to do extra damage you can cut the damage of the strongest attack against you in half, and then its cut in half again if it was doing the basic weapon damage types. Thief is great if you wanna grapple someone and drag them up to a roof top and intimidate them batman style by holding them out in the air and saying you'll drop them. I personally played a half orc and it's worked well for me but that was because I had a fun halforc backstory written up and not for a mechanical reason.

The really fun thing about this build is that its pretty flexible in terms of being either a bit glass cannon-ish or being full on defensive. Also you can play the build with only PHB races/subclasses and no feats, or you can pick up pretty much any race with some increase to str/dex/con/(maybe)cha and itll benefit you in some way, and all of the rogue subclasses will work out for you, although Rogue is a personal favorite of mine because climbing and massive leaps are just super fun to play with during combat, especially if you combine them and the dm says that since you can move at full speed on a wall you could technically get a running start on it and jump off.