Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 74

Thread: Holy Symbols

  1. - Top - End - #1
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Goblin_Priest's Avatar

    Join Date
    Sep 2015

    Default Holy Symbols

    Just occurred to me that none of these vampire clerics should be able to cast their spells, because they don't have holy symbols of Hel!

    Guess we'll just be handwaving that away, now, though. :P
    Attention LotR fans
    Spoiler: LotR
    Show
    The scouring of the Shire never happened. That's right. After reading books I, II, and III, I stopped reading when the One Ring was thrown into Mount Doom. The story ends there. Nothing worthwhile happened afterwards. Middle-Earth was saved.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Fyraltari's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    France
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Holy Symbols

    The Church of Hel seems holy the first thing a Cleric wears around their neck.
    Prove otherwise.
    "Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced."
    Gehm's corollary to Clarke's Third Law



    Forum Wisdom

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Titan in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Manchester, UK
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Holy Symbols

    I just read the Cleric description on the SRD and it didn't specify clerics need their holy symbol to cast spells, just to turn/rebuke undead?

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    SwashbucklerGuy

    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Valencia, Spain
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Holy Symbols

    The Holy Symbol is only really needed to turn/rebuke undead.
    Hel is an evil deity and thus grats rebuke undead to her clerics.
    All clerics of Hel are undead, as Hel can't make clerics among the living.

    Therefore, Hel doesn't gives a Holy Symbol to her clerics, to prevent them from going blind for bolstering themselves.
    Last edited by The Pilgrim; 2019-03-22 at 07:43 AM.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Mad Humanist's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Disunited Kingdom
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Holy Symbols

    Quote Originally Posted by The Pilgrim View Post
    The Holy Symbol is only really needed to turn/rebuke undead.
    Hel is an evil deity and thus grats rebuke undead to her clerics.
    All clerics of Hel are undead, as Hel can't make clerics among the living.

    Therefore, Hel doesn't gives a Holy Symbol to her clerics, to prevent them from going blind for bolstering themselves.
    Who would have guessed that Tarquin had such a dirty mind?
    Ever wondered how many games are mentioned in the comic? I have listed them all in a geeklist: https://boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/2...es-order-stick


  6. - Top - End - #6
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Goblin_Priest's Avatar

    Join Date
    Sep 2015

    Default Re: Holy Symbols

    Quote Originally Posted by factotum View Post
    I just read the Cleric description on the SRD and it didn't specify clerics need their holy symbol to cast spells, just to turn/rebuke undead?
    Most cleric spells require the "divine focus".

    Divine Focus (DF)

    A divine focus component is an item of spiritual significance. The divine focus for a cleric or a paladin is a holy symbol appropriate to the characterís faith.

    If the Components line includes F/DF or M/DF, the arcane version of the spell has a focus component or a material component (the abbreviation before the slash) and the divine version has a divine focus component (the abbreviation after the slash).
    Last edited by Goblin_Priest; 2019-03-22 at 08:04 AM.
    Attention LotR fans
    Spoiler: LotR
    Show
    The scouring of the Shire never happened. That's right. After reading books I, II, and III, I stopped reading when the One Ring was thrown into Mount Doom. The story ends there. Nothing worthwhile happened afterwards. Middle-Earth was saved.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Grey_Wolf_c's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2007

    Default Re: Holy Symbols

    Quote Originally Posted by Goblin_Priest View Post
    Most cleric spells require the "divine focus".
    Indeed. On the other hand, it is usually easy to desecrate a holy symbol of another religion to make it acceptable to your own. Usually, by breaking it or defiling it or both - say, take Thor's symbol, brake off half the hammer head, drop a few vampire blood drops, now it is a holy symbol that Hel I'm sure will find acceptable.

    Grey Wolf
    Interested in MitD? Join us in MitD's thread.
    There is a world of imagination
    Deep in the corners of your mind
    Where reality is an intruder
    And myth and legend thrive
    Quote Originally Posted by woweedd View Post
    I would say that's the dumbest theory Grey Wolf's heard, but, let's be honest: It's Grey Wolf. They've probably heard dumber theories today. Point is, neat idea, but it's a real stretch.
    Ceterum autem censeo Hilgya malefica est

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jan 2015

    Default Re: Holy Symbols

    Quote Originally Posted by Mad Humanist View Post
    Who would have guessed that Tarquin had such a dirty mind?
    ...Please tell me thatís sarcasm.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Titan in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Manchester, UK
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Holy Symbols

    Quote Originally Posted by Goblin_Priest View Post
    Most cleric spells require the "divine focus".
    Ah, OK, I missed that bit.

    Having said that--all the vampires we're currently seeing are ex-members of the Cult of Stone, right? Since they didn't have a deity, would they have had a holy symbol to start with? And I guess it's up to Hel what makes a valid divine symbol for her worship--maybe she considers the vampiric body itself to be a sign of faith!
    Last edited by factotum; 2019-03-22 at 10:11 AM.

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Fyraltari's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    France
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Holy Symbols

    Blue robed Vampireís host served Thor. And if the Creed of the Stone did not require a holy symbol I wonder why each of its member carries a lump of rock as a necklace.
    "Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced."
    Gehm's corollary to Clarke's Third Law



    Forum Wisdom

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Colossus in the Playground
     
    Kish's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2004

    Default Re: Holy Symbols

    Regardless of deity or lack thereof, no one can cast a spell that requires a divine focus without a divine focus.

    (Note that some spells require a divine focus for one class but not for another--notably when they're on both the cleric and wizard/sorcerer lists--but no spell requires a divine focus for one cleric but not another.)
    Spoiler
    Show
    "The really unforgivable acts are committed by calm men in beautiful green silk rooms, who deal death wholesale, by the shipload, without lust, or anger, or desire, or any redeeming emotion to excuse them but cold fear of some pretended future. But the crimes they hope to prevent in the future are imaginary. The ones they commit in the present--they are real." --Aral Vorkosigan

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    This, in a nutshell.
    Yes, exactly.

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Colossus in the Playground
     
    hamishspence's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2007

    Default Re: Holy Symbols

    Complete Champion had a cantrip (orison) that allows a cleric to summon up a divine focus- presumably for these sorts of situations.
    Marut-2 Avatar by Serpentine
    New Marut Avatar by Linkele

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    BlueWizardGirl

    Join Date
    Aug 2018

    Default Re: Holy Symbols

    For me as a non-player, this clarifies why Redcloak took the time to go get his backup holy symbol in the obviously-urgent situation of O-Chul and Darth V in the tower.
    This signature was written by me, Aveline, to indicate that this message was written by me, Aveline.

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Mad Humanist's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Disunited Kingdom
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Holy Symbols

    Quote Originally Posted by woweedd View Post
    ...Please tell me thatís sarcasm.
    Actually I am not surprised that Tarquin thinks about sex a lot. However I did think he was too clever and sophisticated to make such a crude joke. I really should put this in the things I didn't notice but it sort of feels like I did not legitimately discover it.

    Also if this digression from the OP's original question continues, then "Holy Symbol" will start to become a euphemism.
    Last edited by Mad Humanist; 2019-03-22 at 11:39 AM.
    Ever wondered how many games are mentioned in the comic? I have listed them all in a geeklist: https://boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/2...es-order-stick


  15. - Top - End - #15
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    BlueWizardGirl

    Join Date
    Aug 2018

    Default Re: Holy Symbols

    Elan's interpretation of a holy symbol: (image link)
    This signature was written by me, Aveline, to indicate that this message was written by me, Aveline.

  16. - Top - End - #16
    Colossus in the Playground
     
    Kish's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2004

    Default Re: Holy Symbols

    Quote Originally Posted by Mad Humanist View Post
    However I did think he was too clever and sophisticated to make such a crude joke.
    He had to be interrupted to stop him from commenting directly on his son's girlfriend's breasts immediately after he was introduced.
    Spoiler
    Show
    "The really unforgivable acts are committed by calm men in beautiful green silk rooms, who deal death wholesale, by the shipload, without lust, or anger, or desire, or any redeeming emotion to excuse them but cold fear of some pretended future. But the crimes they hope to prevent in the future are imaginary. The ones they commit in the present--they are real." --Aral Vorkosigan

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    This, in a nutshell.
    Yes, exactly.

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Grey_Wolf_c's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2007

    Default Re: Holy Symbols

    Quote Originally Posted by Kish View Post
    He had to be interrupted to stop him from commenting directly on his son's girlfriend's breasts immediately after he was introduced.
    Not to mention the alacrity with which he adopts "wash the gorilla" or something along those lines as an euphemism for sex.

    Grey Wolf
    Interested in MitD? Join us in MitD's thread.
    There is a world of imagination
    Deep in the corners of your mind
    Where reality is an intruder
    And myth and legend thrive
    Quote Originally Posted by woweedd View Post
    I would say that's the dumbest theory Grey Wolf's heard, but, let's be honest: It's Grey Wolf. They've probably heard dumber theories today. Point is, neat idea, but it's a real stretch.
    Ceterum autem censeo Hilgya malefica est

  18. - Top - End - #18
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    RedWizardGuy

    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Brazil
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Holy Symbols

    Since Hel can only have undead clerics, her holy symbol will always be an undead (i.e. a darkened, desecrated) version of the symbol its cleric used in life.
    Each one of us, alone, is but a drop in the sea
    Our powers pale compared with the great heroes
    Our battles donít hit theheadlines or shake the earth
    But they are few, canít be everywhere, and we, many
    So, when the world or universe needs saving, they come
    But when people needs saving, we are the ones to appear
    We're underdogs, but we rise up to the challenge to be heroes.
    (Wishing Joe, a low-powered superhero)

    "I really like the Geek Math'ology we do here"

  19. - Top - End - #19
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Goblin_Priest's Avatar

    Join Date
    Sep 2015

    Default Re: Holy Symbols

    On second though, countering myself, I'm now not convinced that they have actually cast any spells that do require a divine focus. Symbol of Death doesn't. Dispel Magic doesn't. I can't recall off the top of my head all of the spells the vampire clerics used.

    Oh wait, Durkon used Righteous Might, right? That needs a DF.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    Indeed. On the other hand, it is usually easy to desecrate a holy symbol of another religion to make it acceptable to your own. Usually, by breaking it or defiling it or both - say, take Thor's symbol, brake off half the hammer head, drop a few vampire blood drops, now it is a holy symbol that Hel I'm sure will find acceptable.

    Grey Wolf
    Hard to say how things are ruled in the OotS-verse, but personally I'd rule against that in my games. A holy symbol, to me, should be specific to the god granting the powers, and not just a desecration of an opponent's symbol. It's more about representing the god specifically than pleasing him, and there's nothing about a descecrated rock that screams "Hel".
    Attention LotR fans
    Spoiler: LotR
    Show
    The scouring of the Shire never happened. That's right. After reading books I, II, and III, I stopped reading when the One Ring was thrown into Mount Doom. The story ends there. Nothing worthwhile happened afterwards. Middle-Earth was saved.

  20. - Top - End - #20
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jan 2015

    Default Re: Holy Symbols

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    Not to mention the alacrity with which he adopts "wash the gorilla" or something along those lines as an euphemism for sex.

    Grey Wolf
    Also, heís a rapist.

  21. - Top - End - #21
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Gluteus_Maximus's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    Portland, OR
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Holy Symbols

    Quote Originally Posted by Goblin_Priest View Post
    Hard to say how things are ruled in the OotS-verse, but personally I'd rule against that in my games. A holy symbol, to me, should be specific to the god granting the powers, and not just a desecration of an opponent's symbol. It's more about representing the god specifically than pleasing him, and there's nothing about a descecrated rock that screams "Hel".
    Note that all clerics of thor-turned-vampire-thralls have a black gem in their holy symbol, as opposed to the blue ones that Minrah, Tinna, Rogo, High Priestess Rubyrock, and Brother Sandstone use.

    They're desecrated for hel, thanks to their dark energy and servitude to her (Durkon's immediately changed back when he was turned, and as it seems to be, the other clerics' did as well).

    Presumably, the rocks that the Creed Of Stone vampire clerics use are similarly corrupted. This is why there's no question of their former gods/rocks of worship stopping to decide to not give them spells for the day.

    The holy symbol is the link between the cleric and the god- So in lieu of having to go grab half a dozen Hel-specific symbols (uncommon, considering no one really worships her), her vampires instantly change their (gem)stone to be corrupted in her name.

    It's representing her in the way that in corrupting the clerics' holy symbols symbolizes her gaining power over all as she welcomes in all the dwarf souls to power her throughout the next world's tenure.
    Last edited by Gluteus_Maximus; 2019-03-22 at 01:31 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Requilac View Post
    Wow, i canít believe it, WotC actually made the rules compatible for a situation in which an ape demon is leaping into the air to knock a vampire out of a Poylmorphed T-rexís jaws who is flying 120 feet above the ground.
    Avatar by Linkele.

  22. - Top - End - #22
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Grey_Wolf_c's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2007

    Default Re: Holy Symbols

    Quote Originally Posted by woweedd View Post
    Also, heís a rapist.
    Well, yes, but while "classy" and "rapist" are not mutually exclusive categories, they are also not particularly correlated. He is also a murderer, after all. And a massive egomaniacal, self-interested, egotistic, egoistic, selfish, self-seeking, self-regarding, self-absorbed, self-obsessed, self-loving, narcissistic, vain, conceited, proud, self-important a-hole. All of which can include both classy and crude individuals.

    Grey Wolf
    Interested in MitD? Join us in MitD's thread.
    There is a world of imagination
    Deep in the corners of your mind
    Where reality is an intruder
    And myth and legend thrive
    Quote Originally Posted by woweedd View Post
    I would say that's the dumbest theory Grey Wolf's heard, but, let's be honest: It's Grey Wolf. They've probably heard dumber theories today. Point is, neat idea, but it's a real stretch.
    Ceterum autem censeo Hilgya malefica est

  23. - Top - End - #23
    Troll in the Playground
    Join Date
    Feb 2013

    Default Re: Holy Symbols

    I think the phrase you're looking for is "sexist, egotistical, lying, hypocritical bigot".

  24. - Top - End - #24
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Fyraltari's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    France
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Holy Symbols

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    Well, yes, but while "classy" and "rapist" are not mutually exclusive categories, they are also not particularly correlated. He is also a murderer, after all. And a massive egomaniacal, self-interested, egotistic, egoistic, selfish, self-seeking, self-regarding, self-absorbed, self-obsessed, self-loving, narcissistic, vain, conceited, proud, self-important a-hole. All of which can include both classy and crude individuals.

    Grey Wolf
    And he never once reported to the Redudancy Bureau of Redudancy, the fiend!
    Last edited by Fyraltari; 2019-03-22 at 02:05 PM.

  25. - Top - End - #25
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    RedWizardGuy

    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Brazil
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Holy Symbols

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    Well, yes, but while "classy" and "rapist" are not mutually exclusive categories, they are also not particularly correlated. He is also a murderer, after all. And a massive egomaniacal, self-interested, egotistic, egoistic, selfish, self-seeking, self-regarding, self-absorbed, self-obsessed, self-loving, narcissistic, vain, conceited, proud, self-important a-hole. All of which can include both classy and crude individuals.

    Grey Wolf
    And now I'm thinking of some of those RPG systens, like Numenera, where adjectives define some of the character's statistics.
    Last edited by D.One; 2019-03-22 at 03:12 PM.
    Each one of us, alone, is but a drop in the sea
    Our powers pale compared with the great heroes
    Our battles donít hit theheadlines or shake the earth
    But they are few, canít be everywhere, and we, many
    So, when the world or universe needs saving, they come
    But when people needs saving, we are the ones to appear
    We're underdogs, but we rise up to the challenge to be heroes.
    (Wishing Joe, a low-powered superhero)

    "I really like the Geek Math'ology we do here"

  26. - Top - End - #26
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Peelee's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Birmingham, AL
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Holy Symbols

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Kish View Post
    He had to be interrupted to stop him from commenting directly on his son's girlfriend's breasts immediately after he was introduced.
    Not to mention the alacrity with which he adopts "wash the gorilla" or something along those lines as an euphemism for sex.

    Grey Wolf
    And don't forget calling a succubus a booby trap or reminiscing about his sexploits in the middle of a battle.
    Cuthalion's avatars rock. Like this very fine dragon he made me.

  27. - Top - End - #27
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Mordar's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2008

    Default Re: Holy Symbols

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    Well, yes, but while "classy" and "rapist" are not mutually exclusive categories, they are also not particularly correlated. He is also a murderer, after all. And a massive egomaniacal, self-interested, egotistic, egoistic, selfish, self-seeking, self-regarding, self-absorbed, self-obsessed, self-loving, narcissistic, vain, conceited, proud, self-important a-hole. All of which can include both classy and crude individuals.

    Grey Wolf
    You forgot "...with delusions of grandeur" on the list.

    - M
    No matter where you go...there you are!

    Togashi Ishi - Betrayal at the White Temple
    Da Monsters of Da Midden - GitP Blood Bowl Manager Cup Season VI

  28. - Top - End - #28
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    GnomeWizardGuy

    Join Date
    Feb 2019

    Default Re: Holy Symbols

    Quote Originally Posted by Mad Humanist View Post
    Actually I am not surprised that Tarquin thinks about sex a lot.
    Also, given that several of his many wives seemed to have been political nobodies, he probably married them for the sex rather than for politics or money.

  29. - Top - End - #29
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    ClericGirl

    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Texas
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Holy Symbols

    Quote Originally Posted by D.One View Post
    And now I'm thinking of some of those RPG systens, like Numenera, where adjectives define some of the character's statistics.
    Yeah, I did as well.
    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Who could ever forget about giving their pet orangutang a bath?
    Quote Originally Posted by ijuinkun View Post
    Also, given that several of his many wives seemed to have been political nobodies, he probably married them for the sex rather than for politics or money.
    I am bleeding due to how hard I have to bite my tongue to avoid an RL politics observation. Not your fault. *heads off to get alcohol, swabs, and such*
    Last edited by KorvinStarmast; 2019-03-25 at 09:36 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Malifice View Post
    (paraphrased) Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.
    Quote Originally Posted by greenstone View Post
    Player agency doesn't mean they get to roll for everything. Agency means that they control their character's actions; you control the world's reactions to the character's actions.
    Gosh, 2D8HP, you are so very correct (and also quite handsome) or so I am told ... by 2D8HP

  30. - Top - End - #30
    Troll in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

    Join Date
    Jan 2009

    Default Re: Holy Symbols

    On topic: I think a good point about the holy symbols, but probably (as noted) easy to desecrate one. I can also see an evil god accepting other holy symbols as part of their own, when twisted against the original cleric, sorta like a trickster god's cleric might use another god's to deceive about who they really serve. Not sure on the RAW for a given setting for those things, but seems cool and decent for the comic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogar Demonblud View Post
    I think the phrase you're looking for is "sexist, egotistical, lying, hypocritical bigot".
    Has he displayed hypocrisy?

    He seems pretty straight-forward in his exploits, when not actively deceiving the country he's currently serving (well, controlling and pretending to serve) or conquering. While I suppose that is hypocrisy in the sense of pretending to be a servant while actually being the ruler, he's fairly straight about what he's doing to folk who matter narratively (which, to him, is folk who matter.)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •