Grappling die out over time?

[Bannan_mantis]

I was considering the idea of making a grappler for storm king's thunder. The area of the story we are starting from has us start at level 11 so I was just loving the idea of a high level grappler build....but I ran into a problem.

After some research, it seems like martial based grapple characters (barbs, barb/rogue, fighter/rogue and etc.) seem to quickly lose power once you introduce them to big creatures. Considering how a lot of enemies will be pretty big at that level how do you work around that? I've already thought of a character idea in my head that I'd rather not compromise on so I want this guy to be just martial for classes so no spellcasters with enlarge/reduce

[hymer]

I don't want to spoiler anything, but grappling won't become obsolete. That said, be sure you have other options, as you can't grapple all the time.

[LudicSavant]

If buying or crafting potions is an option, consider Potion of Growth.

It gives you the benefit of Enlarge for 1d4 hours without Concentration. As opposed to actually casting the Enlarge/Reduce spell, which lasts for just 1 minute of Concentration.

[sulimo0310]

Also you could consider Duregar as a race. Good stats for a grappler (STR and CON) and a racial Enlarge/Reduce to help you once a day without you having to sacrifice being a martial character. And as always, if you have spellcasters in your party they can help you out with an enlarge/reduce once in a while as well. Remember D&D is a team game and the best optimization comes with party cooperation. 😁

[DarkKnightJin]

If buying or crafting potions is an option, consider Potion of Growth.

It gives you the benefit of Enlarge for 1d4 hours without Concentration. As opposed to actually casting the Enlarge/Reduce spell, which lasts for just 1 minute of Concentration.

..And now I'm thinking what'd happen if my 7ft4 Dragonborn Death Cleric, or tue 20-ish ft Naga Paladin had tla potion like that..

With my luck, I'd end up mixing it with another potion, and get stuck in an Enlarged form..

[Bannan_mantis]

If buying or crafting potions is an option, consider Potion of Growth.

It gives you the benefit of Enlarge for 1d4 hours without Concentration. As opposed to actually casting the Enlarge/Reduce spell, which lasts for just 1 minute of Concentration.

Pretty good overall but I think I'd rather have something that is more consistent? It's a very good suggestion but I'd rather have a more consistent way of overcoming sizes. That said I'm still gunna use this as a option.

Also you could consider Duregar as a race. Good stats for a grappler (STR and CON) and a racial Enlarge/Reduce to help you once a day without you having to sacrifice being a martial character. And as always, if you have spellcasters in your party they can help you out with an enlarge/reduce once in a while as well. Remember D&D is a team game and the best optimization comes with party cooperation. 😁

I understand that it's a co-op game, it'll just be nicer to have a way to work around things independently. Besides that the duregar option is nice and it gives a rage like buff so I can conserve my uses of rage more.

[Unoriginal]

I was considering the idea of making a grappler for storm king's thunder. The area of the story we are starting from has us start at level 11 so I was just loving the idea of a high level grappler build....but I ran into a problem.

After some research, it seems like martial based grapple characters (barbs, barb/rogue, fighter/rogue and etc.) seem to quickly lose power once you introduce them to big creatures. Considering how a lot of enemies will be pretty big at that level how do you work around that? I've already thought of a character idea in my head that I'd rather not compromise on so I want this guy to be just martial for classes so no spellcasters with enlarge/reduce

It's not "over time", it's "it doesn't work against bigger-than-Large creatures creatures, regardless of level". There is no "this is the level you only run into big creatures", meaning grappling remains relevant at all level, unless the rogue gallery you face is mostly Huge+ beings.

Problem is, Storm King's Thunder is a campaign about Giants, aka a lot of the opponents from day 1 are Huge and so immune to grappling. It's kinda like playing a Fire sorcerer when the campaign mostly happens in the City of Brass. Most of the other published campaigns wouldn't really have those issues.


It's true that being a Duergar and wrestling Giants would be pretty awesome, though. You could even be a Duergar Battlerager Barbarian, to increase your damage while grappling.

EDIT: Also, caster-grapplers would be just as inefficient, if not more.

[stoutstien]

I was considering the idea of making a grappler for storm king's thunder. The area of the story we are starting from has us start at level 11 so I was just loving the idea of a high level grappler build....but I ran into a problem.

After some research, it seems like martial based grapple characters (barbs, barb/rogue, fighter/rogue and etc.) seem to quickly lose power once you introduce them to big creatures. Considering how a lot of enemies will be pretty big at that level how do you work around that? I've already thought of a character idea in my head that I'd rather not compromise on so I want this guy to be just martial for classes so no spellcasters with enlarge/reduce

Ask the DM if grappling part of a large creatures okay.
A toddler hanging off your arm won't stop you but is very inconvenient to say the least. More so if it is also stabbing you in the side.

[JackPhoenix]

Ask the DM if grappling part of a large creatures okay.
A toddler hanging off your arm won't stop you but is very inconvenient to say the least. More so if it is also stabbing you in the side.

There are optional rules for climbing creatures 2 and more sizes larger than you in the DMG at page 272. It doesn't stop the target from moving, but grant the climbing creature advantage on attacks, and (at GM's discretion) may prevent the target from attacking the climbing creature.

[DarkKnightJin]

There are optional rules for climbing creatures 2 and more sizes larger than you in the DMG at page 272. It doesn't stop the target from moving, but grant the climbing creature advantage on attacks, and (at GM's discretion) may prevent the target from attacking the climbing creature.

Thanks for that tip. I had the idea for a Kobold Rogue (Thief, most likely) that scurries up an opponent, steals a knife/Dagger from them on tue way up, then shanks them with the nicked blade.
But 2 or more sizes larger means it'd only work on Large and bigger for Scaly Rat..

[tieren]

Ask your DM if the "powerful build" feature of goliaths and firbolgs also applies to grappling (being considered one size larger than you are), makes sense to me since it is a kind of "pushing, dragging, or lifting".

[Sigreid]

Talk to your DM. I'm running a mythic earth campaign and if a player asked about it I would allow the grappler feat to let you grapple with large and huge opponents because that's not an unheard of thing for heroes to do in mythology so it would fit.

[GlenSmash!]

It's not "over time", it's "it doesn't work against bigger-than-Large creatures creatures, regardless of level". There is no "this is the level you only run into big creatures", meaning grappling remains relevant at all level, unless the rogue gallery you face is mostly Huge+ beings.

Problem is, Storm King's Thunder is a campaign about Giants, aka a lot of the opponents from day 1 are Huge and so immune to grappling. It's kinda like playing a Fire sorcerer when the campaign mostly happens in the City of Brass. Most of the other published campaigns wouldn't really have those issues.


It's true that being a Duergar and wrestling Giants would be pretty awesome, though. You could even be a Duergar Battlerager Barbarian, to increase your damage while grappling.

EDIT: Also, caster-grapplers would be just as inefficient, if not more.

It's too bad Duergar Battleragers can't maintain concentration on their Enlarge while Raging to enable bonus damage, temp hp and dash as bonus action all while enlarged and grappling a giant.

[JackPhoenix]

It's too bad Duergar Battleragers can't maintain concentration on their Enlarge while Raging to enable bonus damage, temp hp and dash as bonus action all while enlarged and grappling a giant.

They don't need to. They need to be within one size category of the giant to target him with the grapple, but they maintain the grapple even if they shrink back into their original medium size later. They won't be able to grab the giant again if he manages to break the grapple, though.

The Grappled condition lists what can end it. The grappler shrinking in size is not one of those things.

So, Enlarge, grapple the giant, Rage and hope he won't try to shake you off. And even if he does, hey, he wasn't using his action to make an attack.

[GlenSmash!]

They don't need to. They need to be within one size category of the giant to target him with the grapple, but they maintain the grapple even if they shrink back into their original medium size later. They won't be able to grab the giant again if he manages to break the grapple, though.

The Grappled condition lists what can end it. The grappler shrinking in size is not one of those things.

So, Enlarge, grapple the giant, Rage and hope he won't try to shake you off. And even if he does, hey, he wasn't using his action to make an attack.

It's a good way to start combat agreed. I just wish it worked for wanting to grapple somebody else while already raging.

[Citan]

I was considering the idea of making a grappler for storm king's thunder. The area of the story we are starting from has us start at level 11 so I was just loving the idea of a high level grappler build....but I ran into a problem.

After some research, it seems like martial based grapple characters (barbs, barb/rogue, fighter/rogue and etc.) seem to quickly lose power once you introduce them to big creatures. Considering how a lot of enemies will be pretty big at that level how do you work around that? I've already thought of a character idea in my head that I'd rather not compromise on so I want this guy to be just martial for classes so no spellcasters with enlarge/reduce

Hi

If buying or crafting potions is an option, consider Potion of Growth.

It gives you the benefit of Enlarge for 1d4 hours without Concentration. As opposed to actually casting the Enlarge/Reduce spell, which lasts for just 1 minute of Concentration.

This is probably the easiest if your DM agrees to make it work (have an NPC craft for you, award a few as a quest reward, etc).

Another way could be to be a race that counts as twice the size for carrying/dragging, if DM agrees it would also apply to grappling/shoving (very probably a houserule I admit I nevered bothered to check clarifications on that but for me RAW it does not work).

Or, you could have your DM allow you to play a Mystic: Giant Growth Discipline is all that you need (well, that and at least proficiency, possibly Expertise in Athletics. Pair that with Immortal and a race that have natural weapons (so you can grapple two creatures and still make attacks) or with Wu Jen and Grappler feat for single target deadly lockdown.

If none option is on the table, your best bet is Eldricht Knight (to get Enlarge) with Expertise one way or another (and possibly a few levels in Barbarian to get advantage when you don't need to be enlarged / or if you can have someone else cast Enlarge on you, like a Find Familiar with Ring of Spell Storing -although that is DM dependent too-), or possibly Polymorph/Moon Druid but then you're a beast which may be far from what you'd like