I have 5 Int. Help me.

[Alistaroc]

I've been the perma-DM for our group, but my friend decided to give it a try, and to make things easier for him, I built a character with 5 Int.
It forcibly restricts me from using my game knowledge (I don't wanna accidentally metagame).

My trouble is I can't quite figure out how to flesh it out.
With 5 Int, I'm clearly an idiot. I can't count above two, and I don't quite understand the concept of haggling money.
But I took the steps to tie shut the trapdoor and barricade the door in the ruined tower we're overnighting in.
I attribute that to my 10 Wisdom, but I can't quite figure out how much common sense like that I have.
Would it be reasonable to say things like that could be attributed to a soldiering background?

I'm honestly having a blast, I just don't know how to play such a low Int character with depth to him, DMing my villains have never been this dumb

[Sordahon]

With 5 int you cannot even speak at all if I'm not mistaken. 8 was like problems with speaking.

[hamishspence]

Int 3 is the minimum for a PC. And at least some sources suggest that an Int 3 adventurer is still bright enough to take care of themselves.

In D&D terms, anyone who has an Intelligence of 3 or higher is capable of determining right from wrong (because they have an alignment); speak, read, and write a language fluently; and generally looking after themselves on a daily basis while adventuring in a dangerous dungeon. This does not describe most real-world people with mental handicaps (to my knowledge). Which means the bulk of the spectrum of mental handicaps probably sits somewhere below 3 and above 2, because it's a system designed for action-adventure and it doesn't need more granularity than that.

[The Kool]

In short, you may be going a bit overkill. It's worth remembering that Int represents knowledge, Wis represents ability to put things together. So you might not be able to do math in your head, or grasp really high numbers, but you have as fair a shot as the next guy (remember, 10 is on par with your average human) to tell when someone is screwing you over. My advice is that if the situation calls for a specific piece of knowledge, make it likely your character doesn't know that (most of the time... you can have a few memorable "I know that one!" moments to highlight it). If the situation calls for judgement, just go with the flow and don't handicap yourself.

[KillianHawkeye]

With 5 int you cannot even speak at all if I'm not mistaken. 8 was like problems with speaking.

I hate to be the one to tell you, but you are sorely mistaken.

With a 5 Intelligence, you won't worry too much about having correct grammar, and your vocabulary will pretty much entirely consist of common and basic words, but you can definitely speak and get your point across to anyone who cares to listen to the words of an imbecile. At worst, you'll be at "Me Tarzan, you Jane" levels of conversation skills (if you also have a poor Charisma).

[frogglesmash]

I don't know if this is accurate or helpful, but I tend to imagine 5-6 Int being as dumb, or slightly dumber than Forrest Gump.

[Torpin]

record yourself and then afterwards write down the first 200 distinct words you used and going forth only use those

[The Kool]

I should share, that I too currently play a low-INT character (6 though). The biggest word he knows is 'crusade'.

[wilphe]

I don't think 5 INT is an dysfunctional level of stupid any more than 15 makes you a genius

On flat 3d6 5% of the rolls will be 5INT or less


So maybe the one or two dumbest people in your class.

He might have a limited vocabulary, read slowly and not be much for book learning


To be the village idiot he'd need lower INT and/or lower WIS and maybe CHA as well.

[Alistaroc]

I'm definitely doing the limited vocabulary, but what do you guys think of the knowledge part? Would I be able to know things like how to target a troll? How to fortify a tower? Things like that? I just have a hard time drawing a line between Knowledge and Common Sense. There wouldn't happen to be a "Guide to Playing Idiots" would there?

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Alistaroc
Would I be able to know things like how to target a troll? How to fortify a tower?

Coming up with a detailed plan to reinforce a tower is probably stretching it, as is the sort of specialist information necessary to know a troll’s vulnerability to fire.

If a 3 is the lower edge of human mental capacity, then I’d say a 5 would have the limited grammar and vocabulary of a very young child, probably a few hundred words and the ability to create short sentences.

I’d also say that a 5 would have a very difficult time understanding anything abstract, such as the idea that after enough days it becomes another year. I would expect a person like this to not have much ability to plan ahead, or to recognize that the swirls and loops on a page had any relevance to the landscape all around. Maps, writing, numbers would all be distant mysteries.

That said, the distinction between intelligence and wisdom is worth keeping in mind. I’ve traveled in some fairly remote areas, and I’ve seen adult men unable to manage even simple math problems because they never had a formal education. But they were consummate hunters and fully able to operate in a challenging environment, and you could call them “streetwise” in the context of their own culture.

So you might think of your character as being a competent survivor within an extremely narrow envelope, but not able or even interested in trying to understand anything outside that envelope. Your character might not be naturally trusting, but he might end up being extremely dependent on another character, which could make him angry without fully understanding why.

[Rynjin]

So maybe the one or two dumbest people in your class.

This is a good way to put it.

5 Int is ****ing stupid, but not "too stupid to function". They're the kind of person you need to talk to for a bit before you realize they're a moron. But with 10 Wis, you still have basic common sense. "If I lock a door it's harder to get ambushed" is well within your capability.

[Zaq]

5 INT is a -3 mod.

Relative to the average human (read: INT 10), you will succeed at the same INT-based task 85% of the time. 15% of the time, you will fail where an average human would succeed. And that’s only on explicitly INT-based tasks that require a check. It’s pretty possible for most folks to get through a day without actually rolling an INT-based check.

You’re slow to learn new things with a high level of mastery (read: fewer skill points), and the absolute cap on how difficult an INT-based task you can do while trying over and over without help is lower than average (read: your result when rolling a 20 is lower than the result of an INT 10 person when rolling a 20). But it’s hard for a character to recognize exactly what their own hard limits are in that way, and with help, you can surpass your own limits (like everyone).

It’s not that big a deal. If you find it fun to play an exaggeratedly stupid person, then do it, but don’t feel like you have to be THAT stupid just because of your stats. Might not be great to portray your character as a serious genius with that INT, but it’s not like you’ve gotta be nonfunctional.

[Jack_Simth]

I'm definitely doing the limited vocabulary, but what do you guys think of the knowledge part? Would I be able to know things like how to target a troll? How to fortify a tower? Things like that? I just have a hard time drawing a line between Knowledge and Common Sense. There wouldn't happen to be a "Guide to Playing Idiots" would there?

Ever watched "Friends"? You're "Joey" with a basic common sense.

[Biggus]

Wilphe's "one or two dumbest people in your class" is probably a pretty good benchmark. Another way of looking at this is in terms of child IQ, which is (or at least used to be) calculated by comparing mental age to actual age. Most types of intelligence stop increasing at around age 16, so if we say someone with the low-average of INT 10 is equivalent to an average 15-16 year old, INT 5 would be equivalent to an average 7-8 year old. For a reference point, the lower-end tabloids are typically aimed at a roughly 8-year old reading level.

[frogglesmash]

It's worth noting that low int doesn't just mean you don't know a lot of things, it also mean that a lot of the things you think you know are incorrect.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by frogglesmash
It's worth noting that low int doesn't just mean you don't know a lot of things, it also mean that a lot of the things you think you know are incorrect.

And to build on this, frequent misunderstandings of what you see and hear would also be likely.

[Thedez]

Last I played, I actually went the opposite route. 4 Wis, 16 Int.
The rough idea of the character was, 'Knew lots of things and had an academic interest in a lot of subjects. Even came up with brilliant plans! But those plans oftentimes didn't account for massive, deadly problems and oftentimes weren't working towards goals that were exactly relevant to the situation at hand.'
So I think you'd probably be the opposite. You're fairly inexperienced with higher-level academia. I wouldn't say you're an imbecile--Because an imbecile, I feel, would have low Wisdom as well--But you're not academically inclined. You don't care to memorize facts or spend lots of time reading books. You know what you should be working toward--generally--But you have a hard time composing a plan of action to do it. Or at least an effective one.
In essence, your forward planning can use a lot of work, but your ability to tell what you need to be doing is on par with the rest of the group.

[Segev]

Int represents memory, logic, and reasoning skills. Wisdom represents intuition and empathy. You can understand other people just fine with a 10 Wis and 5 Int; you get the gist of what they mean to say, what they want you to believe or understand, even if you can't actually understand the complicated concepts. "So you want me to punch him 'cause he's bad? Okay," might be your reply to a complicated plea for help from a man explaining that the villain has swindeled him and lured away his children with promises of wealth and cult-like personality.

You can disarm traps because you've practiced it. It might have been a LOT of practice, or it might be something you have an unusual knack for - this is an RP choice. Either way, you "get" them, even though you couldn't explain it logically.

I have a brother who's probably at an 8, maybe 6-7 Int, due to brain damage as an infant. For the most part, you wouldn't know he's mentally handicapped; he's quite functional and converses just fine. He has some childish traits that didn't go away with age, and a little bit of a speech impediment (mostly overly-saliva'd sounds when his tongue has to act at the front of his mouth) that probably has more to do with cerebral palsy than intellect, but the big things are that he's not able to hold onto abstract concepts well. Concrete things, he can do. IF you have him counting or even figuring change, he's good, but don't ask him to do the same math with pure numbers. He gets frustrated easily with it.

A few other aspects are more Cha-related (though it goes to show how, IRL, Cha can be tied to intellect), such as his tendency not to read a room well and to get "stuck" on things even when he really should drop the subject. But he's a sweetheart when he's not being grumbly about being taken away from his videogames.

You're dumber than an ogre, but not by much. At Int 5, you come across as stupid, but you're not so stupid as to be played by anybody (not with Wis 10 making you as savvy as the next guy wrt being lied to). You can't necessarily articulate why you know he's up to something, but he OBVIOUSLY is, so you don't trust him. While Bob's your good friend, so you know you can trust him.

One up side of low Int is that you're not persuaded by logical evidence over your feelings. You'll loyally defend Bob's good name as a good person because you know Bob would never do bad things like he's accused of, no matter how compelling and logical the evidence is. There's no being torn, for you, between reason and emotion: you're emotionally driven because reason eludes you.

Still, you get that big numbers are better than small ones, and can generally tell that a pile has more coins in it than the other. You're able to appreciate that gold is better than silver is better than copper (though you could be fooled by somebody saying two gold coins are better than that chest full of silver ones, or conversely by somebody claiming that THAT MANY copper coins in a bag the size of your head is obviously worth more than that handful of gold coins - the exact conversion of 100 cp to 1 gp, or 1 gp to 10 sp will likely elude you).

You can hold your own in small talk, especially on subjects you're very familiar with. But I can't emphasize enough the importance of focusing on concrete concepts and avoiding abstract ones. With low Int, you're in and of the world. If you can see it, touch it, and manipulate it, you probably are okay. But if you have to try to think about it in a way that you've not directly experienced, or change the context from what is presented, you're going to be lost. Go with your gut, and if you have logical reasons presented after the fact why you should change your mind, don't. You're too dumb to grasp the logic and reason, but your gut told you how to feel. You should be persuaded more by emotional arguments that change your gut feeling.

The pretty girl being harassed by ugly men needs to be defended. Learning that she actually owes them money because of complicated reasons, and that they make their living off of the complicated reasons, even that she could afford to pay them, doesn't change things: you see a pretty girl being harrassed by scary men, and that's bad. On the other hand, learning that the scary men were swindeled by her and have families to feed, and that she's a rich bitch who tricks people to make herself richer, and that she tricks nice men into protecting her from her victims will be much more persuasive.

[AnimeTheCat]

When I think of Low-Int characters, I usually think of a character *like* Forrest Gump. He isn't smart, but that doesn't mean he's incompetent. He has a more difficult time grasping concepts and his vocabulary may not be particularly expansive, but he's a solid judge of character most times and takes care of himself reasonably well.

[liquidformat]

Int 3 is the minimum for a PC. And at least some sources suggest that an Int 3 adventurer is still bright enough to take care of themselves.

In D&D terms, anyone who has an Intelligence of 3 or higher is capable of determining right from wrong (because they have an alignment); speak, read, and write a language fluently; and generally looking after themselves on a daily basis while adventuring in a dangerous dungeon. This does not describe most real-world people with mental handicaps (to my knowledge). Which means the bulk of the spectrum of mental handicaps probably sits somewhere below 3 and above 2, because it's a system designed for action-adventure and it doesn't need more granularity than that.

I would argue the fluent part for someone below 10 int much less at 5. Sure you can read and write some basic words but you aren't going to be able to crack open most news papers and know every word.

Int represents memory, logic, and reasoning skills. Wisdom represents intuition and empathy....

I think this is mostly what I go with for int wis and cha but I would add one more comment. Wisdom being the modifier for your will saves is directly related to your ability to control yourself, so the typical person with a 'short fuse' should have below 10 wisdom and someone who is say bipolar is probably sitting around 3-5 wisdom.

I'm definitely doing the limited vocabulary, but what do you guys think of the knowledge part? Would I be able to know things like how to target a troll? How to fortify a tower? Things like that? I just have a hard time drawing a line between Knowledge and Common Sense. There wouldn't happen to be a "Guide to Playing Idiots" would there?

For this situation look at it this way, you have the wisdom to know this door should be blocked or else something bad will happen. However, you don't have the fore thought or spacial skills to block it in such a way to make it easily fixed or reopened again... You empathize with just fine and have normal intuition so you tend to go with your gut feeling about things and are very reactive doing things by the seat of your pants without much to any forethought planning or worry about what the results of your actions might be.

[Yogibear41]

I would say your alignment also has a big impact on how you play your character.

I had a goblinoid character once who had a similar Int to yours (I think it was 5, but it might have been as high as 7) but my Wisdom was around 15. So while he wasn't the brightest guy in the bunch, he could fall back on his common sense and intuition to help him out in certain situations.

Animals have an Int of 2 or 1, and they can keep themselves alive and for the most part not do suicidially stupid things.


For a good reference: Griffons and Displacer Beasts have an Int of 5. Ogres have an Int of 6.

[heavyfuel]

I don't think 5 INT is an dysfunctional level of stupid any more than 15 makes you a genius

On flat 3d6 5% of the rolls will be 5INT or less


So maybe the one or two dumbest people in your class.

He might have a limited vocabulary, read slowly and not be much for book learning


To be the village idiot he'd need lower INT and/or lower WIS and maybe CHA as well.

I'm third-ing this.

5 Int you definitely have trouble remembering things (Knowledge skills) and understanding complex language, but you're definitely a perfectly functional exemple of a human being.

Play your character a bit slow, but if your Wis is somewhat decent, you can still offer some insight and it won't be at all out of character.

[AnimeTheCat]

something else to look at, you can also just take a look at what skills Int is tied to vs what Wis and Cha ar tied to. A high Wis/Low Int character should probably be book dumb (even to the point where you roll for what should be considered "common" knowledge, that DC 10 stuff that you may actually not meet) but would likely have a keen sense of whether someone is hoodwinking them (sense motive), actions to take as a professional in some field (Profession), sharp eyes/ears (spot/listen), but maybe not be so good at thorough searching (search - you don't have a rigorous methodology of making sure you cover every inch of something in a search), and definitely not as educated (knowledge skills), and probably also not taught in a trade craft (craft skills).

You could even just make regular int checks for yourself with a DC 10 for common knowledge things and if you make it, you know it, if you don't you have to ask questions and educate yourself (or, more fun, you think you know something but it's false information).

[D+1]

Low wisdom or intelligence are IME not that complicated to play. Come up with some clearly dumb or not well-considered ideas - but don't subvert yourself or the party by uninhibited rash action. Present ideas or arguments that contain ONE element of truth or something for others to build on, just have your own character reach the wrong conclusions or be unable to work the idea into a complicated plan. ASSUME your PC will NOT be part of the planning except on a simple level. Your challenge is to only ASSIST the other PC's in the deep thinking in small ways, not LEAD them directly. Suggestions that you're so dumb you can't even speak or your brain can't generate enough power to move your legs are amusing jokes, but are not worthy of much real consideration in guiding your roleplaying.

Look at the MECHANICAL things in the game that your low intelligence affects. AVOID those things. Knowledge of any kind and search are the two big ones. Those are the things your PC is expected, by the game rules, to be bad at. But anything else is NOT inherently bad roleplaying. Just find some alternative ways to make it SEEM like your character is not the mental giant in the group. But low intelligence/wisdom is also not by any viable interpretation supposed to stop YOU, the PLAYER, from participating in the game to the fullest extent that other players do. If you have ideas, get them out there... just endeavor to present them in a way that better fits your character. If you're not sure how to do that - participate anyway. Nothing about a low mental score dictates that you, the PLAYER, must not state ideas that you have or suggest something better than another player has done. Worst case scenario don't speak in character - write notes to other players with your suggestions (especially the ones playing the high intelligence PC's). State openly to other players as often as necessary that it is your CHARACTER with the low intelligence and not YOU, so they should simply be more aware that your ideas WILL occasionally be framed in easily dismissed ways but that THEY, as players, should look for the seeds of other ideas and suggestions of different tactics in what you say.

It is impossible to provide a stand-up measuring sign which says, "If a PC's intelligence is this height or below the player may not think of this, or do that." At least, not beyond what the mechanics of the game already have laid out. And the mechanics of the game are not that hard to deal with if a PC has a low intelligence. It presents difficulties and uncertainties to be sure, but so does a crippling low constitution - but having a 5 constitution would not lead you to suggest that maybe your PC is too weak to even walk and maybe shouldn't be allowed outside without being cocooned in bubble-wrap. Don't assume you must do that with a low intelligence or any other low score. You still get to play the game - and play it to the best of YOUR mental ability as a PLAYER. Again the challenge is framing your PC's thoughts and actions as much as PRACTICAL in such a way as will fit the numbers on that character sheet.

[liquidformat]

Low wisdom or intelligence are IME not that complicated to play....

While I agree with you on a whole I don't think you should lump wisdom and intelligence together; having a low int is role played distinctly different than having a low wisdom. Low intelligence means you don't have much knowledge about things, don't think to in-depth about them preferring to go with your gut than thinking them over, and having issues with more abstract concepts (like magic or 'science'). This would probably also affect the size of your vocabulary and the extent of your 'literacy', sure you can read but you aren't about to be able to crack a novel open and read it cover to cover and hope to know all the words much less understand everything written there in. And according to the rules, you are oblivious to the little things (search). I also don't think the whole bad ideas thing is necessarily true, you simply have a gut feeling that x is correct and would rather proceed with x than sit around talking about w, y, and z. That isn't to say x is the correct course of action much less the best it is simply what you think when first presented with the situation, furthermore, you are most likely going to be very hard to dissuade from x.

On the other hand someone with low wisdom would most likely have issues with impulse control, this is mechanically represented by your hit to will saves. Would have issues with relating to others, represented by sense motives. I would throw being gullible and easily persuadable into having a low wisdom by virtue of the sense motive skill. Would be very oblivious to the world around you, seen in a number of skills listen, spot, survival, and interestingly you could argue unmotivated which is demonstrated in the hit you take to profession... All and all these two are very different concepts and would create very different characters.

[Albions_Angel]

You arnt super stupid with 5 int. 10 is average, but you can hold a decent conversation with lots of below average intelligence people. Constraining yourself to very small words, or coming up with very stupid ideas seems like a dead end to me.

Lets start at the bottom and work up. Animals have very low scores. Less than 3 Int, I think? Yet animals are smart. Sure, they have the wis to make up for it, but theres more than that. They can learn things. Tricks and such. And, if given the right tools, they can talk. How they do that might depend on your DM. In fact, it will. When I DM, speak with animals, or some form of giving them voices, leaves them with stilted, staccato conversation:

PC: Hey, bear. Why are you here near the city? Shouldn't you live in the mountains?
Bear: Bear look for food. Much food near city.
PC: But there was lots of food in the mountains before. Why now?
Bear: Big green 2-legs came, eat goat. Now, no goat. Bear hungry.

See, the bear can understand the questions, and the implications they have. But he cant make the leap first off to go "why is the PC asking? Maybe they want to know more than how hungry I am?" and come out about the trolls right off the bat.

You are better than that. You CAN make that leap. If a guard asks you if you have seen anything unusual, you will understand he isnt asking if you noticed its not raining, which is odd for this time of year. You will understand that he is, in fact, asking you if you saw anything you think is important to the guard's current or near-future situation. Brigands on the road, abandoned house carts, someone following you or someone important. You understand what he is asking. But you might not be able to connect all the dots of what you have seen. Your intelligence might mean that you dont know whats usual for this area. Sure, a band of brigands is obviously something to mention, but maybe the abandoned house isnt? Or maybe you think it is, but you failed to notice just how abandoned it was - ie that its been a feature in this landscape for years.

You can also be aware of how lacking you are. People keep saying "come up with stupid plans". Well if you have a comedy group, go ahead. But if its a serious game, that bit gets old QUICK. And then you are just sucking up session time talking when you will just be ignored. Your character might, instead, ask for clarification. "Ok, go over it once more, whats MY part in the plan?", or might write things down so they dont forget. A person lacking in intelligence could end up being the group loremaster, just because they KNOW they struggle, so they keep records of EVERYTHING. Which could be a plot point when your diary is stolen, containing the plans for getting the McGuffin, or detailing all the evidence you have on the corrupt mayor. Maybe you are very quiet, and when asked, you are up front about your score. "I'm not good with words and books. Im better with knives and axes. Tell me where to go and who to kill, and Ill get the job done. Dont you worry."

Also, your Int score is a crude, single figure for a variety of potential abilities. You wont be writing the next treaties on thaumic resonance, but maybe you are a really good camp cook, or surprisingly adept at finding fire wood. Talk to the DM about it, and maybe develop little roleplay enhancements around that:

DM: You settle down to camp. Its Alistaroc's turn to cook. While the party is at first hesitant, they are all surprised when Alistaroc turns 2 stringy looking hares and a few mouldering turnips into a hearty stew, bulked out by oats. Although no replacement for a leg of venison, it heartens you all. Conversation is light and spirits are lifted.

Then the next time its Alistaroc's turn

DM: Alistaroc pulls it out once more. His simple nature hides a surprising talent. Tonight, especially, he excels. Player2, you thought you just missed the mark in your survival check to feed everyone, but thanks to Alistaroc, and a bit of luck, the food stretches just far enough.

So long as you make up for it in other ways, sticking to the trope of not being a good planner, not putting together all the dots, going for the simplest solution (you rarely initiate the flanking, taking the most direct route to the closest or most obviously-in-need-of-killing-first enemy, not always giving thought to others line of fire), perhaps you arnt so "dumb" after all.

I would STRONGLY advise you stay WELL AWAY from playing the character as handicapped in any form. For a start, those conditions are better handled by flaws, curses, other riders, not attribute scores. Second, look, just dont. If you arnt disabled, dont play someone disabled. At best, it adds nothing. At worst, its just bad.

[denthor]

The way I look at this is. He knows he has to eat 10 wisdom.

Where do I get food? The bar has food. I am adult I can drink. 5 intelligence says he does know when to quit drinking. Why at the bar someone approaches with a free beer or four.
Ask questions he blabs and tells every one his business and flashes his coin. The girls "love" he buys them free drink and food. Gets drunk they leave without giving any up. People sell him worthless stuff for cheap prices he buys.

Unless someone watches out for him he ends drunk,broke and maybe bleeding from a bar fight.

[farothel]

INT 5 is probably on par with Baldrick from Blackadder (especially in series 3). You can come up with 'cunning plans', although on mature reflection (by others) they might not be all that cunning.

You should be able to read slowly, but if someone cuts of your index finger, it's going to be real tough.
And you can know things, depending on what you do and where you're from. If you come from a village where there are often troll incursions, you probably know quite a lot about trolls, as it's common knowledge in your village.

I would limit myself to one or maximum two knowledge skills, based upon your background, and keep them at one or two ranks. Also with the low number of skill points it's going to be difficult to get more anyway.

[martixy]

Int 3 is the minimum for a PC. And at least some sources suggest that an Int 3 adventurer is still bright enough to take care of themselves.

Animals can take care of themselves too, doesn't mean you can unironically apply the word "bright" to them without perpetrating a savage mockery of the English language.

Me, I'd play the character very close to animalistic. Instinct based.
Fire bad, food good. Protect pack. Get mate. A lot of grunts, at best monosyllabic speech.

Think of all the individual really smart things that animals are known to do.

In general a lot of animals have select cognitive abilities that surpass even older human children. E.g. theory of mind, tool use, communication, mirror self-recognition, ability to plan(i.e. extrapolate the future from the present), pattern recognition, object persistence.

No animal however has all of them quite at the level a fully adult human brain can achieve.

Just start reducing or chopping off high level cognitive abilities until you arrive at the desired result.