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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Colossus in the Playground
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    Default Quicksilver Science!

    I was watching the quicksilver scenes in the xmen movies and it made me wonder about how momentum works when you can basically freeze time and move objects already in motion. Like, does grabbing a bullet thats in mid air and putting it somewhere else rob it of its momentum at all? Does it actually increase the momentum because you just dragged it MUCH FASTER than it was previously going? Im picturing bullets shattering like they are fired into a pool of water because they got accelerated so fast they broke against the air itself. Suddenly being introduced to air resistance way in excess of what it would be normally fired at. Like, suddenly the bullet goes from 900 fps to suddenly traveling at 50,000 fps. I mean, its probably hand waved away as whatever quicksilver's equivalent to the speed force is, but I was just curious. Im FAIRLY sure that the bullet would shatter in mid air if it got accelerated that much, but im unsure.
    "Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum"
    Translation: "Sometimes I get this urge to conquer large parts of Europe."

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd-o-rama View Post
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    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: Quicksilver Science!

    I image it working like how you would interact with a paper airplane drifting by you.
    You could swing it and release it with force but in a different direction.
    Or grab it, move it to a new position, let the momentum bleed off and let it fall straight down

    As for the bullets:
    It's kind of in a similar vein to https://what-if.xkcd.com/1/
    Air molecules vibrate back and forth at a few hundred miles per hour.
    The bullet is being sped up to about 35000 milers per hour.
    That should be fast enough for the bullet to disintegrate.
    Last edited by sleepy hedgehog; 2019-03-26 at 01:36 PM.

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    Default Re: Quicksilver Science!

    Quote Originally Posted by sleepy hedgehog View Post
    I image it working like how you would interact with a paper airplane drifting by you.
    You could swing it and release it with force but in a different direction.
    Or grab it, move it to a new position, let the momentum bleed off and let it fall straight down

    As for the bullets:
    It's kind of in a similar vein to https://what-if.xkcd.com/1/
    Air molecules vibrate back and forth at a few hundred miles per hour.
    The bullet is being sped up to about 35000 milers per hour.
    That should be fast enough for the bullet to disintegrate.
    Disintegrating bullets aside, what I meant more originally was, say you take the bullet in mid flight and alter its path to perpendicular. So instead of going north its going east. When time resumes, does its former momentum mean it is going east now? Or would its original momentum mean its now tumbling nominally northward because its sideways now? In the video we see him more moving them a foot or so to the side so they continue moving forward, just as if they were fired a foot to the left instead, but just by interacting with them, it seems like that would have a knock on effect to its momentum either increasing or decreasing it depending on how carefully he altered its path. I realize at this point we are leaving real math and science behind as its not actually possible to do these things but I was curious about the theory behind it. With some bullets he is just pushing it aside, with others he is grabbing them and moving them, and in the same scene we see him poking people in the face so that when time resumes its like he got punched by mike tyson after insulting the mans momma. So it just seems like the results arent matching up to the other actions he takes in that very scene.
    "Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum"
    Translation: "Sometimes I get this urge to conquer large parts of Europe."

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd-o-rama View Post
    Traab is yelling everything that I'm thinking already.
    "If you don't get those cameras out of my face, I'm gonna go 8.6 on the Richter scale with gastric emissions that'll clear this room."

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    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Lord Torath's Avatar

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    Default Re: Quicksilver Science!

    There's no real scientific answer here. The real world doesn't work that way. In Tome Raider, Laura turns a knife around, and that reverses its direction of motion so it strikes the thrower instead of the intended target, which I assume is kind of what you're talking about here. It really comes down to who's writing the story, and how they want things to play out.

    If someone is physically grabbing things and moving them, the acceleration they apply to the object should add to the velocity vector (after converting the acceleration to a velocity), resulting in a "diagonal" final velocity vector. If you want to assume Quicksilver is redirecting bullets in a vacuum, he's going to need to overcome the momentum in the original direction, and impart a similar momentum in his desired trajectory for the object. There's nothing keeping the bullet moving in its direction of travel other than its inertia. Merely rotating the bullet around the vertical axis isn't going to rotate its velocity. It's like how the Star Furies in Babylon 5 could turn to face perpendicular to their direction of motion to shoot targets to the side or even behind them. Unless you're talking about an active rocket, which accelerates itself. Even then, turning it perpendicular to its original trajectory will not result in a velocity vector perpendicular to its original one. It would move off at an angle between the original direction and the final orientation of the nose.

    If Quicksilver is trying to do this in atmosphere, The What If linked above is relevant not just to the bullet, but to the air molecules he's moving through to get into position to move the bullet in the first place. That scene in Over the Hedge where Hammy is casually strolling along faster than the DePelter Turbo IR lasers while weaving between the leaves? Yeah, no. He needs to weave between the air molecules, too. That doesn't stop me from really loving that show, though! One of my favorites!

    If you could magically teleport and reorient the object, you could conceivably reorient its velocity and inertia as well.

    It's like the ending of the How it Should Have Ended: Antman:
    "...How did you carry a 20-ton tank in your pocket?"
    "Oh, you know how it goes. Mass.... Molecules..."
    "Convenience!"
    "Convenience!"
    Last edited by Lord Torath; 2019-03-29 at 01:07 PM.
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    Colossus in the Playground
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    Default Re: Quicksilver Science!

    Yeah that sounds about right. I mean, I forget offhand but someone did some math on the quicksilver scene where he evacuates a building in mid explosion getting dozens of people out while everything is bursting into a giant pressure wave and fireball. I just looked it up and it worked out to something absurd like mach 11,811 or about 1% of light speed. Im not sure if thats still fast enough to cause the reaction from the linked comic, but I am sure that without the speed force he should still totally destroy everything around him as he moved. Not too mention himself. Kinda making bullet moving moot.
    "Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum"
    Translation: "Sometimes I get this urge to conquer large parts of Europe."

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd-o-rama View Post
    Traab is yelling everything that I'm thinking already.
    "If you don't get those cameras out of my face, I'm gonna go 8.6 on the Richter scale with gastric emissions that'll clear this room."

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    Default Re: Quicksilver Science!

    I don't remember where I found it, but when DoFP came out somebody crunched the numbers to figure out how fast Quicksilver needed to be moving for the bullets to be frozen in time. The relevant units wasn't kph---it was a percentage of c. Ergo, as with most supers the answer to 'How?' is 'Magic', and the answer to 'What happens?' is 'Whatever you want'.

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    Colossus in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Quicksilver Science!

    No, he'd just pretty much vaporize everything around him in a wave of Xrays and Plasma.
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    Default Re: Quicksilver Science!

    Okay, not to be that guy but... Quicksilver has no access to the speedforce. Or Flash would sue him.

    Otherwise, as has been said, the big problem is that there is no comparable real world process.
    If he picks the bullet up he negates its momentum. If he places it somewhere else, it should have no momentum and drop straight down. If it magically maintained its momentum it would continue in the direction it went initially (either going sideways or turning because air resistance). If it kept moving forward without him giving it the momentum it would be even more magic.

    I'm a little skeptical if he had to go at relativistic speeds in DoFP but I didn't do the math. It just feels like that's too much.
    I'll buy it for Apocalypse, though.
    And yes, then he should probably cause a bunch of nuclear mishaps.
    "What's done is done."

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    Default Re: Quicksilver Science!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kato View Post
    Okay, not to be that guy but... Quicksilver has no access to the speedforce. Or Flash would sue him.

    Otherwise, as has been said, the big problem is that there is no comparable real world process.
    If he picks the bullet up he negates its momentum. If he places it somewhere else, it should have no momentum and drop straight down. If it magically maintained its momentum it would continue in the direction it went initially (either going sideways or turning because air resistance). If it kept moving forward without him giving it the momentum it would be even more magic.

    I'm a little skeptical if he had to go at relativistic speeds in DoFP but I didn't do the math. It just feels like that's too much.
    I'll buy it for Apocalypse, though.
    And yes, then he should probably cause a bunch of nuclear mishaps.
    Yeah I know he has no access to the speed force, it was just shorthand for the usual "My powers dont hurt me even though physics implies it should and "me" includes things like clothing as well" secondary power most supers get. Like, how, just at a minimum, he should be naked after using his powers because his clothes would have been torn off or burnt off by the friction and wind resistance. It doesnt help that even in the films quicksilver is inconsistent. When rescuing magneto from jail he holds magnetos head still to avoid whiplash, then with the exploding mansion he doesnt even remotely do that, literally HURLING people out windows to a safe distance.
    "Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum"
    Translation: "Sometimes I get this urge to conquer large parts of Europe."

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd-o-rama View Post
    Traab is yelling everything that I'm thinking already.
    "If you don't get those cameras out of my face, I'm gonna go 8.6 on the Richter scale with gastric emissions that'll clear this room."

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    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Griffon

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    Default Re: Quicksilver Science!

    Quote Originally Posted by Traab View Post
    Yeah I know he has no access to the speed force, it was just shorthand for the usual "My powers dont hurt me even though physics implies it should and "me" includes things like clothing as well" secondary power most supers get. Like, how, just at a minimum, he should be naked after using his powers because his clothes would have been torn off or burnt off by the friction and wind resistance. It doesnt help that even in the films quicksilver is inconsistent. When rescuing magneto from jail he holds magnetos head still to avoid whiplash, then with the exploding mansion he doesnt even remotely do that, literally HURLING people out windows to a safe distance.
    Sounds like "A wizard did it" to me.
    The end of what Son? The story? There is no end. There's just the point where the storytellers stop talking.

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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Quicksilver Science!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kato View Post
    If he picks the bullet up he negates its momentum. If he places it somewhere else, it should have no momentum and drop straight down.
    I suppose it depends on how he lets the bullet go, he could let it go with the exact same momentum it had when he interacted with it... or it could go faster or slower (as in stopped or in reverse relative to the target). Not that there is any reason for him to do so apart from a possible cool effect I suppose.

    Also if he interacted with it with a force perpendicular to the trajectory, and doing it so fast he doesn't cause any friction, and somehow the bullet doesn't disintegrate*, then doing the reverse so the bullet doesn't move in any direction perpendicular to its original trajectory then I can't see why the bullet shouldn't continue with its original momentum.

    *In this post I ignored that more obvious stuff like everything disintegrating would happen in stead, as I think that would defeat the purpose of the scene and the OP.

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