Anyone here play Final Fantasy XIV?

[LaZodiac]

What makes you think their numbers are much smaller than yours?

I'll admit I'm just looking at the abilities, but when my basic attack ability chain is 210 > 310 > 530 potency, with an additional 310 every 30 seconds or so, it feels a bit more... I don't know, intensely powerful compared to anything else? And that's not counting the bonuses from Disembowling and Lance Charging first, and not counting the other stuff I'll get once I've got Blood of the Dragon going.

I want to emphasize that I am actually curious how the other classes work and am not trying to diminish them, I'm just not good at this sort of game and can't really picture how it all works unless I play it myself, and I don't really have the time or mental capacity to level five jobs to 80.

[Wookieetank]

I just started (Zalera server, Lancer, just turned Dragoon) so I'll try to follow this thread without spoiling myself, cause I do want to be more active with stuff like this. I've got a question, though.

I have a really hard time mentally understanding how the other classes work, and no real time to play them. How do the other DPS classes even... do anything, when it looks like all their numbers are so small compared to my nonsense near zero-effort combos?

Part of that is gearing, when leveling alt jobs a fair number of people don't bother gearing up till at or near max lvl. You just wear whatever and keep on keeping on. Summoner and Bard both have a lot of damage over time bits, putting out smaller numbers, but more of those numbers. Player skill also is something to consider, but that isn't as noticeable until higher levels when combos and cooldowns get more complicated.

[DeTess]

I'll admit I'm just looking at the abilities, but when my basic attack ability chain is 210 > 310 > 530 potency, with an additional 310 every 30 seconds or so, it feels a bit more... I don't know, intensely powerful compared to anything else? And that's not counting the bonuses from Disembowling and Lance Charging first, and not counting the other stuff I'll get once I've got Blood of the Dragon going.

It depends on what you're comparing it to. I've mostly played ranged classes(scholar, summoner, red mage, bard and dancer in my case), and those tend to have lower potency attacks, but can keep applying dps in more situations. I also get the impression that the dragoon is focussed purely on their own dps, whereas many other classes get some utility effects or ways to increase party-wide dps through buffs or debuffs. That means that, even though dragoons might have the best numbers on paper, the buffs and debuffs handed out by other classes even things out.

But to answer your initial question of 'how can other dps classes keep up', they simply do their thing, and it somehow all works out :P

[LaZodiac]

There is like one or two things the Dragoon can do to help out (just has a party wide crit boost, and can make someone into their right eye so that as long as they stay close enough together they're both powered up) but ultimately yeah, the Dragoon's thing is to do his two combos (or the special third one if dealing with lots of guys since it's AOE) and just kinda let everyone else handle the thinking.

The final fantasy wiki probably sums it up the best. All the other jobs have super complicated and indepth descriptions of what their gauges mean and how to work them. For Dragoon they basically just say "semi-attentive use of your combos ensures the gauge will go on indefinitely". So simple and clear cut; do your combos and stab things to death. End.

Also to be honest that's one of my favorite things about this so far. FFXIV seems actually really well balanced among the classes. Everyone does their thing well enough that you can just roll into a random party and have a good show of it.

[Grif]

I just started (Zalera server, Lancer, just turned Dragoon) so I'll try to follow this thread without spoiling myself, cause I do want to be more active with stuff like this. I've got a question, though.

I have a really hard time mentally understanding how the other classes work, and no real time to play them. How do the other DPS classes even... do anything, when it looks like all their numbers are so small compared to my nonsense near zero-effort combos?

Hm, depending on your levels, it's also possible that you're not seeing the full kit that the other job has. BRD at 50 is very different compared to BRD at 70, for example. Square has done a lot of pruning of the job skills over the years, resulting in a somewhat simplified rotation at 50 now.

Note also that because DRG is a melee class, you cannot apply DPS as consistently as the other ranged DPS class. In particular, you'd need to watch out for AOE attacks far more carefully. There's a reason why DRG players are often regarded as bad: the bad ones tend to focus only on DPS and forget to do mechanics. By contrast, my main, BRD, can apply DPS very consistently regardless of mechanics because of his ability to stand off, insta-cast skills and frankly a plethora of DOTs to apply.

[Rynjin]

I'll admit I'm just looking at the abilities, but when my basic attack ability chain is 210 > 310 > 530 potency, with an additional 310 every 30 seconds or so, it feels a bit more... I don't know, intensely powerful compared to anything else? And that's not counting the bonuses from Disembowling and Lance Charging first, and not counting the other stuff I'll get once I've got Blood of the Dragon going.

I want to emphasize that I am actually curious how the other classes work and am not trying to diminish them, I'm just not good at this sort of game and can't really picture how it all works unless I play it myself, and I don't really have the time or mental capacity to level five jobs to 80.

Take Red Mage as a comparison, which I played to 60 before swapping to Dancer. You start with Jolt (EFFECTIVELY power 234 after the 30% flat boost from your Passive) with a 2 second cast time. After the 2.5 second GCD you then cast Acceleration (Instant) then Verthunder or Veraero (Instant because you cast Jolt, power 390), followed by Fleche (Instant, power 546) followed by Verfire or Verstone (triggered by your Accelerated Verthunder/aero; power 351 with a 2s cast time), followed by Verthunder/aero again (whichever you didn't cast before, Instant because you just cast a spell) for a total of 1911 power worth of damage over the first 10 seconds of the battle (toss in a Contre Sixte for another 390 as an Instant AoE if you're feeling saucy and/or aren't caught in CONSTANTLY OUTLEVELED CONTENT HELL where you never get to use it), rinse and repeat with the only omission being Fleche is only every 25 seconds.

You can do this from a solid range and mix in jumping in with Corps a Corps to dump your Black/White magic meter on a guy for another hunk of Instant cast melee damage.

[Tome]

Each job generally has slightly different ways it gets its damage.

BRD and SMN, for instance, rely on constant uptime of DoTs and a slew of off-global abilities that they can weave in between their global cooldown. They also benefit from able to attack both from range and whilst moving. Any given hit probably isn't very strong, but there's a lot of them and they don't ever have to stop attacking unless the boss turns temporarily invinvible or untargetable. A SMN can be casting a 280 potency Ruin IV whilst Miasma and Bio tick for 80 potency, their pet hits for another 80 and then they can fit a 300 potency Fester and 100 potency egi assault in before their next ruin cast. That's potentially 840 potency in the space of a single action.

BLM on the other hand relies on the damage of Fire IV. The base potency might only read as 300, but that's before it gets multiplied by Astral Fire and Enochian and making it effectively potency 500+. The whole BLM rotation is about getting as many of those in as possible, plus throwing in Despair and Xenoglossy for some even bigger hits every so often. They can't move whilst casting but make up for it by just turreting a continous stream of high damage explosions. (Black Mage, incidentatlly, is currently the highest damage job and has been for a while.)

MNK, and to a lesser extent NIN, have passive speed boosts in Greased Lightning and Huton. Again, look for their hits to come much more frequently than a DRG's.

You've also got more support-oriented jobs like DNC and NIN who have low personal damage but make up for it by buffing their allies. DRG is slightly in this category, thanks to Dragon Sight and Battle Litany.

The actual damage a job deals is pretty hard to figure out just from looking at the abilities. I think the only ones lagging behind right now are Red Mage and Ninja, who are doing about the same DPS as DNC but without the group buffs to make up for it.

[LaZodiac]

Take Red Mage as a comparison, which I played to 60 before swapping to Dancer. You start with Jolt (EFFECTIVELY power 234 after the 30% flat boost from your Passive) with a 2 second cast time. After the 2.5 second GCD you then cast Acceleration (Instant) then Verthunder or Veraero (Instant because you cast Jolt, power 390), followed by Fleche (Instant, power 546) followed by Verfire or Verstone (triggered by your Accelerated Verthunder/aero; power 351 with a 2s cast time), followed by Verthunder/aero again (whichever you didn't cast before, Instant because you just cast a spell) for a total of 1911 power worth of damage over the first 10 seconds of the battle (toss in a Contre Sixte for another 390 as an Instant AoE if you're feeling saucy and/or aren't caught in CONSTANTLY OUTLEVELED CONTENT HELL where you never get to use it), rinse and repeat with the only omission being Fleche is only every 25 seconds.

You can do this from a solid range and mix in jumping in with Corps a Corps to dump your Black/White magic meter on a guy for another hunk of Instant cast melee damage.

Thanks, that really helps actually! I think I was just going off wrong data, and having difficulty organizing how it would all work in game terms. I'm still not even at level 50 for Dragoon (getting there though, I'm 43 now!) and I can already see my own job opening up substantially since the Jumps are all abilities, not weaponskills. I should have realized the other classes do so as well.

Also god I can relate to that outleveled content hell. I accidently cleared out basically all the sidequests in Gridania before starting the story and oops I'm a level 30 doing level 15 story content and skipping all side quests until I reach some kind of parity with what the game assumes I'm supposed to be at. I just really wanted to be a dragoon quickly...

I forgot to quote it, but also yeah having to deal with AOEs and stuff does slow Dragoon down a lot, that's true. I've thankfully avoided being a floor main, only falling twice due to "I swear I was out of the AOE in time ****" and one of those was at Sunken Temple so I probably just got Doomed because it was my first time and I try not to read ahead.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Thanks, that really helps actually! I think I was just going off wrong data, and having difficulty organizing how it would all work in game terms. I'm still not even at level 50 for Dragoon (getting there though, I'm 43 now!) and I can already see my own job opening up substantially since the Jumps are all abilities, not weaponskills. I should have realized the other classes do so as well.

Also god I can relate to that outleveled content hell. I accidently cleared out basically all the sidequests in Gridania before starting the story and oops I'm a level 30 doing level 15 story content and skipping all side quests until I reach some kind of parity with what the game assumes I'm supposed to be at. I just really wanted to be a dragoon quickly...

I forgot to quote it, but also yeah having to deal with AOEs and stuff does slow Dragoon down a lot, that's true. I've thankfully avoided being a floor main, only falling twice due to "I swear I was out of the AOE in time ****" and one of those was at Sunken Temple so I probably just got Doomed because it was my first time and I try not to read ahead.

DRG is actually kinda meh on its own for DPS as far as Melee DPS classes are concerned. Monk and Ninja have higher DPS and of course Samurai (basically 'melee Glass Canon') has the top melee DPS slot. The dragoon's niche is having relevant damage plus the raid-wide bonuses it can provide, and being tankier than the other melee DPS classes. Not enough to confuse it with an actual tank like a Paladin, but enough that it can take hits that would otherwise wipe out other DPS classes.

A properly played Dragoon is an asset to any party, and particularly so for compositions which have Bards and other pierce-damage users. But raw damage numbers aren't why. Learn your class, and everyone will want you around. Fail to learn your class... well, there's a reason 'LOLDRG' is a meme. It's a class which requires knowing your mechanics and how to use them.

[Grif]

particularly so for compositions which have Bards and other pierce-damage users. But raw damage numbers aren't why.

I just want to say this is no longer true. Square has removed all -% X resistance effects from all jobs as of 5.0.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

I just want to say this is no longer true. Square has removed all -% X resistance effects from all jobs as of 5.0.

Ahh, was unaware of that. Thanks for the correction. Did they replace it with anything?

[PhoenixPhyre]

Ahh, was unaware of that. Thanks for the correction. Did they replace it with anything?

They adjusted all dps potencies, basically. So any pre-5.0 comparisons are outdated.

They also added a buff based on diversity of roles: 1% for each of the following present in a raid: Tank/Healer/Melee DPS/Ranged Physical/Magical DPS

[LaZodiac]

Ahh, was unaware of that. Thanks for the correction. Did they replace it with anything?

Near I can tell, just raw damage output. Also making Lifeblood Surge have no cap on healing. I literally only started now so I have no context for pre-Shadows Dragoon. I've got the mechanics down pretty pat, and really I'm just glad I can contribute and help out.

Also, did Haukke Manour for the first time today. Our tank had connection problems and ceased to exist right after we hit the cellar (contrasting our Paladin, who due to lag and general "i've done this before" ended up drawing every enemy at once whenever he could). I suggested we could go as far as we can manage and then get a new tank, and we got to the Yellow Hall. It was honestly really interesting, how we carefully pulled each mob, the Black Mage using sleep on all but the guy I was fighting, our Astrologist keeping us alive.

Then we get a new tank and beat the dungeon. It was neat! I didn't get anything but a commendation because I'm level 45.

[lesser_minion]

Ahh, was unaware of that. Thanks for the correction. Did they replace it with anything?

In most cases the damage increase they would have gotten is now baseline, but they repurposed some of the skills. For dragoon, they deleted heavy thrust and moved its effect over to disembowel; monk's dragon kick is now a self-buff; samurai's yukikaze is mostly unchanged but grants more kenki; ninja's shadow fang appears to be back to how it was in HW.

A lot of interactions that they felt favoured specific combinations of jobs were attacked in some way:

• Tank enmity tools no longer incur a DPS loss, non-tank ones are gone.
• MP management is strictly self-only.
• Bard procs are now a fixed 40% chance.
• Pets and summons can't be attacked, can't be targeted, can't tank, and can't be used in mechanics.
• Astrologian cards cannot reduce incoming damage, replenish resources, or alter attack speed, cooldowns, or crit rate.

There are a few possible synergies left. Some are things the dev team would presumably want, such as the new astrologian cards working best when your DPS are a mix of ranged and melee (each card prefers one or the other, and only works half as well on the wrong target); others, like the interaction between dancers and monks (dancers buff crit, and build a resource when someone lands an attack under one of their buffs; monks attack lots, and build a resource when they crit), have supposedly been fudged behind the scenes.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

In most cases the damage increase they would have gotten is now baseline, but they repurposed some of the skills. For dragoon, they deleted heavy thrust and moved its effect over to disembowel; monk's dragon kick is now a self-buff; samurai's yukikaze is mostly unchanged but grants more kenki; ninja's shadow fang appears to be back to how it was in HW.

A lot of interactions that they felt favoured specific combinations of jobs were attacked in some way:

• Tank enmity tools no longer incur a DPS loss, non-tank ones are gone.
• MP management is strictly self-only.
• Bard procs are now a fixed 40% chance.
• Pets and summons can't be attacked, can't be targeted, can't tank, and can't be used in mechanics.
• Astrologian cards cannot reduce incoming damage, replenish resources, or alter attack speed, cooldowns, or crit rate.

There are a few possible synergies left. Some are things the dev team would presumably want, such as the new astrologian cards working best when your DPS are a mix of ranged and melee (each card prefers one or the other, and only works half as well on the wrong target); others, like the interaction between dancers and monks (dancers buff crit, and build a resource when someone lands an attack under one of their buffs; monks attack lots, and build a resource when they crit), have supposedly been fudged behind the scenes.

Wow. Throwing the baby out with the bathwater much? I guess they don't really like the idea of players working together as a team. Shame, really. Also, I feel sorry for the suckers who used to main any sort of Arcanist class, especially trying to solo grind up an Arcanist in the first place without your pet tank. How did they even rework the Topaz Carbunkle since like most of its abilities assumed that it was tanking?

[lesser_minion]

Wow. Throwing the baby out with the bathwater much? I guess they don't really like the idea of players working together as a team. Shame, really. Also, I feel sorry for the suckers who used to main any sort of Arcanist class, especially trying to solo grind up an Arcanist in the first place without your pet tank. How did they even rework the Topaz Carbunkle since like most of its abilities assumed that it was tanking?

Well, many of the things I listed were not particularly demanding or costly to use. e.g., the bard/machinist refresh was literally just a button you pushed every 2-3 minutes. And the jobs that were picked for piercing/slashing debuffs were chosen in part because they could give those out for free as well.

Every job still has skills that interact with the rest of the group though. Every DPS has some way of reducing damage taken for the whole group; every tank, healer, and melee can disable enemies; bards kept their healing buff, cleanse, and direct hit buff; monks kept mantra; etc.

As for summoner and arcanist, the tank pet doesn't tank, but one of its charged skills gives its owner a barrier worth 20% of max hp. The tank pet was already considered useless past a certain level because the demi-bahamut mechanic they introduced last expansion automatically despawns your pet when used.

The main complaints I've seen people have with pets now are to do with losing track of them since they don't show up in the party list.

[Yuki Akuma]

As a Summoner main I find that solo content is actually easier now with the change to Topaz/Titan. You can begin a fight with your yellow dude summoned and hit Egi Assault I - which gives a 20% max HP shield - then switch to the red guy for high DPS and burn the bad guy down without having to worry about stealing aggro off your tank. If the shield falls off you can switch back to the support pet to cast a new one.

You just have to actively play defense rather than setting Titan on sic and ignoring it.

The pet rework for Summoner is actually pretty great. All three of your pets have a distinct role now.

Garuda-Egi is for AOE. Her auto-attack, Wind Blade, deals 40 potency damage to her target and all enemies around it. Her Egi Assault I, Aerial Slash, deals 60 potency damage to her target and all enemies around it, and her Egi Assault II, Slipstream, deals 20 potency damage to her target and every target around it and drops a 20 potency DoT AoE on the floor for 15 seconds (which totals to 120 potency total over 15 seconds, assuming everything stays in the AoE). Her Enkindle, Aerial Blast, deals 350 potency damage to a target and all targets nearby.

Ifrit-Egi is for single-target. His auto-attack, Burning Strike, deals 80 potency. Egi Assault I, Crimson Cyclone, deals 100 potency, and Egi Assault II, Flaming Crush, also deals 100 potency but also hits everyone around Ifrit-Egi for a bit of AoE damage too. His Enkindle, Inferno, deals 200 potency damage in a cone in front of him and inflicts a 20 potency DoT for 15 seconds, which is a total of 300 potency over 15 seconds.

Titan-Egi is basically a less-powerful Ifrit that can protect you. Its auto-attack, Rock Buster, is 60 potency, and its Egi Assault II, Mountain Buster, is basically the same as Ifrit's Egi Assault II but with only 70 potency. His Enkindle deals 200 potency to all enemies around him, and leaves a DoT AoE on the floor for 15 seconds that deals 20 potency - basically making it the same damage as Ifrit's Enkindle, but requiring targets to stay still. What makes him shine, though, is his Egi Assault I, Earthen Armour, which gives you a 20% max HP barrier for 30 seconds. The downside is that Titan's Egi Assault I doesn't trigger Further Ruin, because it doesn't hit anything.

[Tome]

I honestly haven't used Titan/Topaz for anything since I first started levelling through the game. He just couldn't generate enough enmity, nor take enough damage, to be worth using over Ifrit or Garuda.

The change to pets is welcome, though Titan could use for further reworking to actually be useful. Ifrit and Garuda now each have their places, it'd be nice if there was a reason to use Titan (and no, the once per 30 seconds shield is not enough of a reason).

I am quite liking Summoner in 5.0, though there's a couple of clunky bits that could still use some tweaks. Overall the only complaints I have about ShB are some of the healer changes (the borked scaling of healing potencies and making SCH DPS boring when the entire kit is built around freeing them up to do just that).

[LaZodiac]

Just hit Dragoon 50, and fought Titan (and experienced a bit of what happens after, jeez).

Slowly realizing I'll need a third action bar... also realizing I'm running out of buttons on my keyboard to map them to and might need to do button combos, which honestly frightens me. I might remove Piercing Talon (if that seems wise) just because the Jumps are far better engages/mob drawing abilities, and because it doesn't combo anything.

[Rynjin]

FFXIV is a game that actually benefits from playing with a controller, IMO. It's way easier to set up the subsequent action bars on a controller where all you need to do is hold LT, RT, LT+RT, or RT+LT to access three different action bars mapped to the same 8 easy to reach buttons.

[Tome]

Just hit Dragoon 50, and fought Titan (and experienced a bit of what happens after, jeez).

Slowly realizing I'll need a third action bar... also realizing I'm running out of buttons on my keyboard to map them to and might need to do button combos, which honestly frightens me. I might remove Piercing Talon (if that seems wise) just because the Jumps are far better engages/mob drawing abilities, and because it doesn't combo anything.

Piercing Talon is rarely used, but it's still probably best to keep it around. Mostly for still doing damage to bosses when mechanics keep you out of melee. Might I recommend having it be on the third hotbar?

[Togath]

How high do I need to get my class level in order to start crafting 2-star housing recipes?
I recently unlocked a few... got the materials... and then realized I needed (I think) 375 craftsmanship to make it.

[DeTess]

Just hit Dragoon 50, and fought Titan (and experienced a bit of what happens after, jeez).

Slowly realizing I'll need a third action bar... also realizing I'm running out of buttons on my keyboard to map them to and might need to do button combos, which honestly frightens me. I might remove Piercing Talon (if that seems wise) just because the Jumps are far better engages/mob drawing abilities, and because it doesn't combo anything.

I wouldn't recommend dumping any of your kit as it's almost allways useful somewhere. In my experience, ctrl+1-5 is easily doable, and I use that for my aoe rotation on dancer, with all my long-cooldown stuff mapped to shift+number. If you've got additional buttons on your mouse you could map some stuff to that as well.

[lesser_minion]

I pretty much only play on controller, and I have an MMO mouse, so I don't have too much trouble binding everything at least somewhere. There are at least a few skills that you can probably click on instead of needing a keybind -- mostly long, rarely-used situational cooldowns, and non-combat skills like peloton and astro stances.

How high do I need to get my class level in order to start crafting 2-star housing recipes?
I recently unlocked a few... got the materials... and then realized I needed (I think) 375 craftsmanship to make it.

It sounds like those recipes were intended for geared level 50s. It may be easier to do with higher-level skills, although some of the most important cross-class skills are baseline for all crafters now.

[Togath]

I mean, like, I can't even start the crafting process. And I'm not sure what sort of level 375(or maybe 275? memory's rough right now) craftsmanship is obtainable at.

[Grif]

I mean, like, I can't even start the crafting process. And I'm not sure what sort of level 375(or maybe 275? memory's rough right now) craftsmanship is obtainable at.

Some of the 50/60 recipes are gated behind master recipes. You can get the Master I/II off Mor Dhona (look for Talan), and Master III/IV off Idyllshire.

[DeTess]

Some of the 50/60 recipes are gated behind master recipes. You can get the Master I/II off Mor Dhona (look for Talan), and Master III/IV off Idyllshire.

IIRC, there's also a number of end-game recipes that simply can't be made if you don't have enough craftmanship. Those are generally gated by gear in addition to level (so if these recipes are listed as lvl50 you can make them as level 50, you just need better gear).

[LaZodiac]

Piercing Talon is rarely used, but it's still probably best to keep it around. Mostly for still doing damage to bosses when mechanics keep you out of melee. Might I recommend having it be on the third hotbar?

I'll consider that, though since Piercing Talon is a weaponskill it might actually be beneficial NOT to use it so it doesn't interfer with my combos, which are fairly vital given the Dragoon mechanic is basically just doing your combos in full? I mean if the boss is gonna be super rude about it yeah, Talon will be usefull.

I wouldn't recommend dumping any of your kit as it's almost allways useful somewhere. In my experience, ctrl+1-5 is easily doable, and I use that for my aoe rotation on dancer, with all my long-cooldown stuff mapped to shift+number. If you've got additional buttons on your mouse you could map some stuff to that as well.

Yeah, I'll probably do that as well. Some of my abilities are also super situational or just "passive that you turn on every half a minute or so" so putting it on a third hotbar and reorganizing everything might be a good idea.

Right now I've got 1 through 0 all marked for hotbar one, and F1 to F12 all marked for hotbar two. I'm a dragoon and have exactly one thing that even considers targeting allies so removing my ability to quick-target friends isn't really that important.

[Hunter Noventa]

I'll consider that, though since Piercing Talon is a weaponskill it might actually be beneficial NOT to use it so it doesn't interfer with my combos, which are fairly vital given the Dragoon mechanic is basically just doing your combos in full? I mean if the boss is gonna be super rude about it yeah, Talon will be usefull.



Yeah, I'll probably do that as well. Some of my abilities are also super situational or just "passive that you turn on every half a minute or so" so putting it on a third hotbar and reorganizing everything might be a good idea.

Right now I've got 1 through 0 all marked for hotbar one, and F1 to F12 all marked for hotbar two. I'm a dragoon and have exactly one thing that even considers targeting allies so removing my ability to quick-target friends isn't really that important.

Yeah sometimes bosses just strand you out of range with AoE nonsense so having piercing talon might be of use...but even then I barely use it when I play Dragoon.

And personally I go three hotbars and bind them to control+number and alt+number. You're just going to get more skills to use, so I'd try to get used to it.

[Resileaf]

My own hotbar use is to have three hotbars with my job skills in the middle of the screen, the role skills on the left, and the various buttons and actions I use often (mounts, potions, emotes, etc.) on the right side.