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  1. - Top - End - #511
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    Default Re: Pokémon Thread XXIX: Sword, Shield, and Spoilers

    It is time to bring a new episode of recycled pokemon content.

    Thanks to Emperor Ing for the awesome avvy.

    Quote Originally Posted by jidasfire View Post
    On a long enough scale, every OOTS forum discussion turns into a debate about alignment, Miko, or Familicide.
    It can also turn into a Star wars debate.

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    Default Re: Pokémon Thread XXIX: Sword, Shield, and Spoilers

    sorry, all I got in response to that is a silphspectre video confirming what I've suspected about Gamefreak since ORAS.

    They literally just change things up to "surprise" people with new gimmicks without any regards for improving and refining the experience. they don't care about making sure anything becomes a staple even though some features are better than others.
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    Default Re: Pokémon Thread XXIX: Sword, Shield, and Spoilers

    Quote Originally Posted by Requizen View Post
    Depends on how heavy it is on Gatcha, being a phone game and all. I want to believe that it'll just be a fun F2P battler game, but I'm not holding my breath.
    Fire Emblem Heroes is pretty decent in the gacha department. Chances to roll 5* aren't too shabby, and the game actually throws you free heroes in a regular basis, some of which are actually pretty top tier (there's even plenty of youtube videos of beating the hardest quests using just said heroes). Also a bunch of heroes that you can't get by gacha, instead you can get a few copies as quest rewards then extra copies with "Holy grails" which are also quest rewards and can be traded directly for the specific hero you want from a selection.

    As pointed out in this video, Nintendo actually holding back quite a lot in the gacha for their mobile games.
    Last edited by deuterio12; 2019-07-10 at 04:43 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Of Mantas View Post
    "You know, Durkon, I built this planet up from nothing. When I started here, all there was was a snarl. All the other gods said we were daft to build a planet over a snarl, but I built it all the same, just to show then. It got eaten by the snarl...

    ...so we built a five millionth, three hundreth, twenty first one. That one burned down, fell over, then got eaten by the snarl, but the five millionth, three hundreth, and twenty second one stayed up! Or at least, it has been until now."

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    Default Re: Pokémon Thread XXIX: Sword, Shield, and Spoilers

    Quote Originally Posted by deuterio12 View Post
    Fire Emblem Heroes is pretty decent in the gacha department. Chances to roll 5* aren't too shabby, and the game actually throws you free heroes in a regular basis, some of which are actually pretty top tier (there's even plenty of youtube videos of beating the hardest quests using just said heroes). Also a bunch of heroes that you can't get by gacha, instead you can get a few copies as quest rewards then extra copies with "Holy grails" which are also quest rewards and can be traded directly for the specific hero you want from a selection.

    As pointed out in this video, Nintendo actually holding back quite a lot in the gacha for their mobile games.
    I'm not writing it off yet, but wasn't there some wacky stuff about the monetization of Dr Mario? Obviously different teams and studios, but still Nintendo-signed.

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    Default Re: Pokémon Thread XXIX: Sword, Shield, and Spoilers

    Quote Originally Posted by deuterio12 View Post
    Fire Emblem Heroes is pretty decent in the gacha department. Chances to roll 5* aren't too shabby, and the game actually throws you free heroes in a regular basis, some of which are actually pretty top tier (there's even plenty of youtube videos of beating the hardest quests using just said heroes). Also a bunch of heroes that you can't get by gacha, instead you can get a few copies as quest rewards then extra copies with "Holy grails" which are also quest rewards and can be traded directly for the specific hero you want from a selection.

    As pointed out in this video, Nintendo actually holding back quite a lot in the gacha for their mobile games.
    That's kind of interesting, cause most of what I hear about FEH now is that the gatcha aspect of it is a complete dumpster fire that is actively antagonistic to unit progression whether you open the wallet or are going the free route.

    That said most of the news I'm hearing is from the Dragalia Lost reddit, which is generally full of people who quite FEH a long time ago in frustration, and more recently people who jumped from FEH when Dragalia did a crossover with FEH. So I'm probably getting to hear only from the people who soured on the game, vs the people who are still happy with it.

    Nintendo is really inconsistent with how it allows its mobiles are run, they specifically asked Cygames (makers of Dragalia) to dial back the monetization aspects, which is probably doubly noticeable since Cygames is well known for spoiling its playebase already. But other mobiles published by Nintendo bounce anywhere from fairly nice, to being wallet busters, to starts out nice enough but becomes a wallet buster later because of mechanic or balance changes, so it's really hard to say what the Pokemon one will be like.

    At the moment there is so little about Pokemon Masters that I'm curious but not terribly excited. It probably will be out before the end of August/beginning of September if it sticks to a release of "Summer 2019" though.

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    Default Re: Pokémon Thread XXIX: Sword, Shield, and Spoilers

    Quote Originally Posted by deuterio12 View Post
    Fire Emblem Heroes is pretty decent in the gacha department. Chances to roll 5* aren't too shabby, and the game actually throws you free heroes in a regular basis, some of which are actually pretty top tier (there's even plenty of youtube videos of beating the hardest quests using just said heroes). Also a bunch of heroes that you can't get by gacha, instead you can get a few copies as quest rewards then extra copies with "Holy grails" which are also quest rewards and can be traded directly for the specific hero you want from a selection.

    As pointed out in this video, Nintendo actually holding back quite a lot in the gacha for their mobile games.
    Quote Originally Posted by cobaltstarfire View Post
    That's kind of interesting, cause most of what I hear about FEH now is that the gatcha aspect of it is a complete dumpster fire that is actively antagonistic to unit progression whether you open the wallet or are going the free route.

    That said most of the news I'm hearing is from the Dragalia Lost reddit, which is generally full of people who quite FEH a long time ago in frustration, and more recently people who jumped from FEH when Dragalia did a crossover with FEH. So I'm probably getting to hear only from the people who soured on the game, vs the people who are still happy with it.
    In my experience, FEH was somewhere in between. On the one hand, the game was pretty liberal with its premium currency. And there were plenty of decent characters to pull from the gacha. On the other hand, it was absolutely easy to get a consistent stream of absolute crap from the gacha. And with so many characters available and rate-up - as it is on every gacha game - being a total lie, good luck when you decide to whale for that one character. Plus, with how significant skill inheritance became, you basically needed to get a bunch of very rare characters in order to power up another very rare character in order to keep up with the meta. PvP in a game like that is a bear.

    To be quite honest, the gacha wasn't the only reason I stopped playing FEH, but it was a contributing factor.

    That's not to say that gacha can't be done right. I think FFRK and FGO are both (very different) examples of that. (But if I start seeing a series of Pikachufaces, it's gone too far.) Nor does it mean that Nintendo can't get it right in a mobile game. But I think we can also look at how PoGo has handled monetization to see some idea how this might work out - and I'm not terribly impressed with PoGo's monetization model. Plus side, no gacha (and no gacha reliance), but minus side, not very forthcoming with premium currency.

    Long story short? I'mma wait before I pass judgment.
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    Default Re: Pokémon Thread XXIX: Sword, Shield, and Spoilers

    Quote Originally Posted by cobaltstarfire View Post
    That's kind of interesting, cause most of what I hear about FEH now is that the gatcha aspect of it is a complete dumpster fire that is actively antagonistic to unit progression whether you open the wallet or are going the free route.

    That said most of the news I'm hearing is from the Dragalia Lost reddit, which is generally full of people who quite FEH a long time ago in frustration, and more recently people who jumped from FEH when Dragalia did a crossover with FEH. So I'm probably getting to hear only from the people who soured on the game, vs the people who are still happy with it.

    Nintendo is really inconsistent with how it allows its mobiles are run, they specifically asked Cygames (makers of Dragalia) to dial back the monetization aspects, which is probably doubly noticeable since Cygames is well known for spoiling its playebase already. But other mobiles published by Nintendo bounce anywhere from fairly nice, to being wallet busters, to starts out nice enough but becomes a wallet buster later because of mechanic or balance changes, so it's really hard to say what the Pokemon one will be like.

    At the moment there is so little about Pokemon Masters that I'm curious but not terribly excited. It probably will be out before the end of August/beginning of September if it sticks to a release of "Summer 2019" though.
    I'll admit that Fire Emblem Heroes made certain decisions that would justify jumping out, but still FEH still has a significantly bigger playerbase than Dragalia Lost. Probably because FEH sometimes does deal back or make decisions that makes things better. In particular the most recent PvP mode, Tempest Trials, has shifted quite a bit since it was launched. If you're ok to take it easy, FEH can be pretty enjoyable, but if you try to go super competitive then it can indeed become pretty frustating.

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Fel View Post
    In my experience, FEH was somewhere in between. On the one hand, the game was pretty liberal with its premium currency. And there were plenty of decent characters to pull from the gacha. On the other hand, it was absolutely easy to get a consistent stream of absolute crap from the gacha. And with so many characters available and rate-up - as it is on every gacha game - being a total lie, good luck when you decide to whale for that one character. Plus, with how significant skill inheritance became, you basically needed to get a bunch of very rare characters in order to power up another very rare character in order to keep up with the meta. PvP in a game like that is a bear.
    They've been making the "uber" skills more available (distant counter comes in 2 two non-Hector heroes now, Legendary Eliwood brings Death Blow 4), plus new units are more likely to come with good synergetic skill kits so they barely need any inheritance (my Surtr still kicks all kinds of ass with his base kit). The original 4* and 3* dragons of Nowi, Adult Tiki and Fae are still perfectly competitive with promotion and the only rare skill they really need is either Distant Counter or an A slot Breath, in which case Legendary Ike will do a fine sacrifice and is relatively easily available from Legendary banners. The 3* and 4* female armors merged to +10 can also go toe to toe with anybody with just a couple rare sacrifices for Distant Counter and the X fighter skill of your preference. I even managed to get to tier 21 in Aether Raids with a couple of unmerged Nagas (-attack to boot!) and other unmerged heroes and barely any skill inheritance (only a few common support skills actually like reposition). Arena's still a bear, but I can still reach tier 20 with a single +10 and one +1 plus a couple unmerged. If I was willing to do a bunch of extra sacrifices from my barracks I could probably reach tier 21 in arena too.


    As for statistics, they're not a complete lie since I always come out of Legendary Banners (8% chance for 5*) with more rare heroes than when I try to go for other Banners (3% chance for 5*). Although granted in the Alm Banner I kept going for colorless orbs and got like four winter Erikas for my trouble and zero Alms. But then this banner I managed to get a +atk/-res Legendary Eliwood along a couple other rares with just some 100 orbs so the RNG gives and takes basically.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Of Mantas View Post
    "You know, Durkon, I built this planet up from nothing. When I started here, all there was was a snarl. All the other gods said we were daft to build a planet over a snarl, but I built it all the same, just to show then. It got eaten by the snarl...

    ...so we built a five millionth, three hundreth, twenty first one. That one burned down, fell over, then got eaten by the snarl, but the five millionth, three hundreth, and twenty second one stayed up! Or at least, it has been until now."

  8. - Top - End - #518
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    Default Re: Pokémon Thread XXIX: Sword, Shield, and Spoilers

    I haven't played a lot of gatchas, so I hope Pokemon Masters makes good choices about the game rather than bad. I like the ability to feel like I can play the game without spending too much money, because these are not the kinds of games I want to spend money on. I've enjoyed that part of FEH at least. I've found that playing as many TCGs as I have, a lot of the problems people have with these games don't really phase me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by deuterio12 View Post
    I'll admit that Fire Emblem Heroes made certain decisions that would justify jumping out, but still FEH still has a significantly bigger playerbase than Dragalia Lost.
    I don't really see how that is relevant to the quality of the gatcha aspect or monetization in general. We know that established IPs can easily crush not so established ones in player #'s regardless of if they are good, bad, or mediocre. My main thought was more about the monetization aspects of mobile games published by Nintendo not being an easy thing to judge since it varies so much from one game to the next, and sometimes changes in a big way. I liked FEH's gatcha on release, but also haven't played it since then, some of the additions to it sound like they're skirting a little close to "complete gatcha" for my comfort.

    It does sound like most of the grievances you listed are the ones most the folks I've seen complain about, PVP comes up a lot, along with whats her face having a billion alts, certain older characters not even being in the games yet, having to pull multiple duplicate SSR's and the grind in general. There were others about story and characterization, but I've never played a mobile game that could boast amazing story telling.


    The real question might end being how painfully grindy will Pokemon Masters be, assuming it is an engaging game for longer than a couple days/weeks to being with. It probably will have PvP by nature of being a pokemon battling game, and it'll suck if you need to do the whole "pay to win" thing, and/or the grind for a gazillion hours to come close to being able have a viable team.

  10. - Top - End - #520
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    Default Re: Pokémon Thread XXIX: Sword, Shield, and Spoilers

    Quote Originally Posted by cobaltstarfire View Post
    It does sound like most of the grievances you listed are the ones most the folks I've seen complain about, PVP comes up a lot,
    This, I think, is the biggest hurdle. The best mobile games I've played have little or no PvP component, which makes a lot of sense - the moment you introduce PvP, "pay to win" becomes a thing, because players are rewarded for beating other players and they want the best tools to help them do that. And you almost can't have a Pokemon game without PvP, because battling is near-intrinsic to the franchise.

    Quote Originally Posted by cobaltstarfire View Post
    along with whats her face having a billion alts,
    *cough* FGO *cough*

    Quote Originally Posted by cobaltstarfire View Post
    certain older characters not even being in the games yet,
    *cough* FGO *cough*

    Quote Originally Posted by cobaltstarfire View Post
    having to pull multiple duplicate SSR's and the grind in general. There were others about story and characterization, but I've never played a mobile game that could boast amazing story telling.
    Okay, seriously, go play FGO. Really good storytelling.

    Quote Originally Posted by cobaltstarfire View Post
    The real question might end being how painfully grindy will Pokemon Masters be, assuming it is an engaging game for longer than a couple days/weeks to being with. It probably will have PvP by nature of being a pokemon battling game, and it'll suck if you need to do the whole "pay to win" thing, and/or the grind for a gazillion hours to come close to being able have a viable team.
    I mean, as a Pokemon game? Pretty grindy. As a Pokemon game with any kind of PvP component? Extremely grindy.

    I mean, Pokemon is the game that branded the phrase "Gotta Catch 'Em All!" Any mobile game will have that as a major component. (See PoGo for more of that.) So there's the farm grind, to collect your monsters. Then there's the level grind, to power them up, assuming combat plays a role. (And again, see PoGo for more of that.) And that's just surface-level mechanics. Maybe there's a gacha to acquire new monsters, or a "collect 50 of these to buy one Pokemon" kind of thing. Either way, you're farming for gacha currency or quest tokens. Or level-up items. Or combat items or powerups. Or...

    I wholly expect it will be a total grind, and have pay-to-win concerns. I also expect it will be highly successful.
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  11. - Top - End - #521
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    Default Re: Pokémon Thread XXIX: Sword, Shield, and Spoilers

    But more importantly will it produce the memes?

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    Quote Originally Posted by cobaltstarfire View Post
    I don't really see how that is relevant to the quality of the gatcha aspect or monetization in general. We know that established IPs can easily crush not so established ones in player #'s regardless of if they are good, bad, or mediocre.
    Quite on the contrary, with Pokémon being a prime example.

    "Capture and collect monsters" games had existed before, actually for a decade. And then Pokémon comes out of nowhere with a completely new IP, and just completely sweeps the competition.

    It's funny since there's a lot of people wanting more "mature" pokémon games with death and deeper storylines, but that's already there. It had already been there before pokémon existed. It was literally the first "capture and collect monsters" game, aka the Shin Megami Tensei franchise.

    A really good game can and will become more popular than what's already there regardless of being a new IP or not.

    Quote Originally Posted by cobaltstarfire View Post
    My main thought was more about the monetization aspects of mobile games published by Nintendo not being an easy thing to judge since it varies so much from one game to the next, and sometimes changes in a big way. I liked FEH's gatcha on release, but also haven't played it since then, some of the additions to it sound like they're skirting a little close to "complete gatcha" for my comfort.

    It does sound like most of the grievances you listed are the ones most the folks I've seen complain about, PVP comes up a lot, along with whats her face having a billion alts, certain older characters not even being in the games yet, having to pull multiple duplicate SSR's and the grind in general. There were others about story and characterization, but I've never played a mobile game that could boast amazing story telling.
    Give enough time and I'll bet Dragalia Lost will also get a billion alts. Although I guess you don't need to worry about old characters when you don't have any in the first place. Not needing duplicates is a boon though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Fel View Post
    The real question might end being how painfully grindy will Pokemon Masters be, assuming it is an engaging game for longer than a couple days/weeks to being with. It probably will have PvP by nature of being a pokemon battling game, and it'll suck if you need to do the whole "pay to win" thing, and/or the grind for a gazillion hours to come close to being able have a viable team.
    You can just ignore any PvP elements or just don't take them too seriously and see how far you can go with minimum investment.

    Eventually every PvP game is pay to win, just sometimes what you need to pay is hundreds of hours of time honing reflexes and learning themechanics to the finest detail, and time is money

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Fel View Post
    This, I think, is the biggest hurdle. The best mobile games I've played have little or no PvP component, which makes a lot of sense - the moment you introduce PvP, "pay to win" becomes a thing, because players are rewarded for beating other players and they want the best tools to help them do that. And you almost can't have a Pokemon game without PvP, because battling is near-intrinsic to the franchise.
    I had plenty of fun with the mainline pokémon games whitout any PvP.

    So again can't you just ignore the PvP elements? Or just be satisfied with a lower rank?

    It would be like saying Starcraft sucks because you can't become grandmaster unless you spend hundreds of hours grinding training time.

    But well kinda by definition not everybody can be the very best.

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Fel View Post
    *cough* FGO *cough*
    The original Saber alone has more alts than any single character in FEH, including Mysterious Heroine X that's a Saber specialized in hunting Sabers alts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Fel View Post
    Okay, seriously, go play FGO. Really good storytelling.
    Well Fate/Stay Night didn't become popular for its gameplay or graphics, that's for sure. It was always about the storytelling.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Of Mantas View Post
    "You know, Durkon, I built this planet up from nothing. When I started here, all there was was a snarl. All the other gods said we were daft to build a planet over a snarl, but I built it all the same, just to show then. It got eaten by the snarl...

    ...so we built a five millionth, three hundreth, twenty first one. That one burned down, fell over, then got eaten by the snarl, but the five millionth, three hundreth, and twenty second one stayed up! Or at least, it has been until now."

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    Default Re: Pokémon Thread XXIX: Sword, Shield, and Spoilers

    Quote Originally Posted by deuterio12 View Post
    ...

    You can just ignore any PvP elements or just don't take them too seriously and see how far you can go with minimum investment.

    Eventually every PvP game is pay to win, just sometimes what you need to pay is hundreds of hours of time honing reflexes and learning themechanics to the finest detail, and time is money


    ...
    Sure you can ignore it. The trouble is the developer will also ignore the bits of the game that dont make them fat stacks so the parts you're trying to enjoy fall farther and farther into disrepair.

    As soon as $ is kn gone line good luck getting devs to look sideways at non menetizable game elements.

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    Default Re: Pokémon Thread XXIX: Sword, Shield, and Spoilers

    Quote Originally Posted by unseenmage View Post
    Sure you can ignore it. The trouble is the developer will also ignore the bits of the game that dont make them fat stacks so the parts you're trying to enjoy fall farther and farther into disrepair.

    As soon as $ is kn gone line good luck getting devs to look sideways at non menetizable game elements.
    Hey, FEH PvE main story has increased significantly in quality! granted that's more because it was horribly bad at start so the only way left to go was up.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Of Mantas View Post
    "You know, Durkon, I built this planet up from nothing. When I started here, all there was was a snarl. All the other gods said we were daft to build a planet over a snarl, but I built it all the same, just to show then. It got eaten by the snarl...

    ...so we built a five millionth, three hundreth, twenty first one. That one burned down, fell over, then got eaten by the snarl, but the five millionth, three hundreth, and twenty second one stayed up! Or at least, it has been until now."

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    Default Re: Pokémon Thread XXIX: Sword, Shield, and Spoilers

    Quote Originally Posted by deuterio12 View Post

    It's funny since there's a lot of people wanting more "mature" pokémon games with death and deeper storylines, but that's already there. It had already been there before pokémon existed. It was literally the first "capture and collect monsters" game, aka the Shin Megami Tensei franchise.
    Or if the gaming part isn't required just read the Pokemon manga, assuming its still the same as everything up through the third gen games. There wasplenty of death and general "darkness". If I was one of those people, I'd have to say that Shin Megami Tensei looks like it lacks the kind of aesthetic/setting that interests me. It might be better to point those folks (if they want an aesthetic more similar pokemon) towards Digimon games, they're reputed to be more story focused while still having the monster collecting and fighting aspect. I do suppose they'd have to get over whatever weird ingrained "ew gross digimon" issue so many pokemon fans have with digimon first though.

    I do find I'm wanting for more from Pokemon games the past couple of generations, they haven't had one that is generally polished all the way through in a while. But I also recognize that I may simply be outgrowing the series, I've been playing it for a little over 20 years now its bound to happen eventually. Sword and Shield grabbed me with its Wild Area specifically, hopefully it will be at least moderately expansive and have interesting little areas/secrets to find.

    I don't think I can speak much on the quality of Dragalia VS FEH, as games especially since I literally haven't played FEH since release, they're both fundamentally different kinds of games, and I was only ever commenting on the quality of the gatcha/progression in game. And even then again I'm only contrasting the two as both being Nintendo published games in relation to what kind of monetization we can expect from pokemon masters (no clue what to expect, but I've never been great at forming concrete expectations). For the folks who still like it that's great, doubly so if you can find some enjoyment without bankrupting yourselves! I personally prefer Dragalia, but that's because I tend to be able to enjoy twitchy games for quite a while even after mastering them. The same can't be said for games like FEH where once I've "solved" a playing field it just feels pointless to go back to it. Twitchy just makes my lizard brain happy, especially once I've gained mastery.

    (also FGO hasn't really grabbed me, but I never really got into the anime now that I realize why I recognized the Fate/ part in the name. I don't really have the attention span for turn based RPG's that aren't pokemon anymore, so it was probably doomed from the get go.)

    It'd be pretty funny if pokemon masters ended up having some kind of immersive story.

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    Default Re: Pokémon Thread XXIX: Sword, Shield, and Spoilers

    Hey, everybody, I have good news and bad news related to Pokemon:

    Spoiler: Bad News
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    Magikarp Is no longer my favourite Pokemon anymore.


    Spoiler: Good News
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    Melmetal is now my favourite Pokemon now.

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    Default Re: Pokémon Thread XXIX: Sword, Shield, and Spoilers

    Quote Originally Posted by cobaltstarfire View Post
    But more importantly will it produce the memes?
    Fate/GO?

    Mother of God, yes.
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    Default Re: Pokémon Thread XXIX: Sword, Shield, and Spoilers

    Quote Originally Posted by cobaltstarfire View Post
    Or if the gaming part isn't required just read the Pokemon manga, assuming its still the same as everything up through the third gen games. There wasplenty of death and general "darkness".
    And even more crazyness. It's Jojo's Bizarre Adventure level of madness, and it's glorious, but I don't see how they could do fit half that stuff in an actual game.

    Quote Originally Posted by cobaltstarfire View Post
    If I was one of those people, I'd have to say that Shin Megami Tensei looks like it lacks the kind of aesthetic/setting that interests me. It might be better to point those folks (if they want an aesthetic more similar pokemon) towards Digimon games, they're reputed to be more story focused while still having the monster collecting and fighting aspect. I do suppose they'd have to get over whatever weird ingrained "ew gross digimon" issue so many pokemon fans have with digimon first though.
    Digimon also came before pokémon. There's even the urban legend that the reason the pokémon just repeat their name for "speech" was precisely to make it stand out from digimon.

    Still I would say that aesthetics wise Digimon does suffer that their evolutions eventually follow either "add artificial bits" or "make it more humanoid" or both, and that can easily go wrong for a lot of people, whereas Pokémon manages to stick to the mon(ster) aspect a lot better. Sometimes less is more, and Digimon's insistence of sticking angelic/demonic wings/swords/guns all over the place probably ended up being a disadvantage.

    Plus Digimon also suffered that by definition they're all artificial while something with Pokémon where they are and were part of the natural ecosystem for most part (cough Porygon cough) allows for a lot more varied storytelling. Pokémon just has that simple charm that pokémon are a part of dailylife and you can run into them in the wilderness and cities themselves are built to take them in account.

    Quote Originally Posted by cobaltstarfire View Post
    I do find I'm wanting for more from Pokemon games the past couple of generations, they haven't had one that is generally polished all the way through in a while. But I also recognize that I may simply be outgrowing the series, I've been playing it for a little over 20 years now its bound to happen eventually. Sword and Shield grabbed me with its Wild Area specifically, hopefully it will be at least moderately expansive and have interesting little areas/secrets to find.

    I don't think I can speak much on the quality of Dragalia VS FEH, as games especially since I literally haven't played FEH since release, they're both fundamentally different kinds of games, and I was only ever commenting on the quality of the gatcha/progression in game. And even then again I'm only contrasting the two as both being Nintendo published games in relation to what kind of monetization we can expect from pokemon masters (no clue what to expect, but I've never been great at forming concrete expectations). For the folks who still like it that's great, doubly so if you can find some enjoyment without bankrupting yourselves! I personally prefer Dragalia, but that's because I tend to be able to enjoy twitchy games for quite a while even after mastering them. The same can't be said for games like FEH where once I've "solved" a playing field it just feels pointless to go back to it. Twitchy just makes my lizard brain happy, especially once I've gained mastery.

    (also FGO hasn't really grabbed me, but I never really got into the anime now that I realize why I recognized the Fate/ part in the name. I don't really have the attention span for turn based RPG's that aren't pokemon anymore, so it was probably doomed from the get go.)

    It'd be pretty funny if pokemon masters ended up having some kind of immersive story.
    Hire the pokémon manga writers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bartmanhomer View Post
    Hey, everybody, I have good news and bad news related to Pokemon:

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    Magikarp Is no longer my favourite Pokemon anymore.


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    Melmetal is now my favourite Pokemon now.
    That sounds like only good news then.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Of Mantas View Post
    "You know, Durkon, I built this planet up from nothing. When I started here, all there was was a snarl. All the other gods said we were daft to build a planet over a snarl, but I built it all the same, just to show then. It got eaten by the snarl...

    ...so we built a five millionth, three hundreth, twenty first one. That one burned down, fell over, then got eaten by the snarl, but the five millionth, three hundreth, and twenty second one stayed up! Or at least, it has been until now."

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    Default Re: Pokémon Thread XXIX: Sword, Shield, and Spoilers

    Quote Originally Posted by deuterio12 View Post
    Digimon also came before pokémon.
    What do you mean, "came before Pokémon"? Pokémon predates it by two years. Both the anime version and just in general.
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    Default Re: Pokémon Thread XXIX: Sword, Shield, and Spoilers

    Recent annoucement of Switch lite has some nominal interest back, given that it's more like an actual hand-held in terms of size, function and price.

    Still I suspect, not gonna do anything until I see the reviews (and this thread) on Sword/Shield when it comes out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Silfir View Post
    What do you mean, "came before Pokémon"? Pokémon predates it by two years. Both the anime version and just in general.
    One year actually, though it's less than a year if you run off Digimon just being Tamagotchi marketed for boys. Pokemon Red/Green Feb 1996, Tamagotchi Nov 1996, Digimon, June 1997. They all have pretty interesting developmental histories, at least if you're interested in art design.

    There is a two year gap between between the anime for Pokemon and the one for Digimon (I watched both...as well as monster rancher, -monster- things are where its at with me lol).

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    Default Re: Pokémon Thread XXIX: Sword, Shield, and Spoilers

    I'll be honest, I would take something like Pokemon Coliseum as a "more mature Pokemon game" if they don't want to go as far as people want. Just give me something with slightly more challenge and something where it feels like people are actually at risk and, I dunno, I could probably go for it. Or even give me a more adult attempt at storytelling, why not? I was going to say they have the resources but apparently they don't actually want to put them towards that so that hope is gone.

    I think the main issue is that selling a Rated T for Teen Pokemon Game would be very difficult for a company that has spent so much time trying to legitimize what is literally a fantasy petfighting simulator.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silfir View Post
    What do you mean, "came before Pokémon"? Pokémon predates it by two years. Both the anime version and just in general.
    Ah, my bad, guess it was just an urban legend after all.

    Quote Originally Posted by tgva8889 View Post
    I'll be honest, I would take something like Pokemon Coliseum as a "more mature Pokemon game" if they don't want to go as far as people want. Just give me something with slightly more challenge and something where it feels like people are actually at risk and, I dunno, I could probably go for it.
    Technically people are at risk in Pokémon world. lt.Surge explicitly was in the military and mentions a recent war where pokémon were used in the frontlines. Gyarados are mentioned as razing down cities. Hypnos kidnap children. Victreebels eat people. Gengar's pokedex entry outright says "Should you feel yourself attacked by a sudden chill, it is evidence of an approaching Gengar. There is no escaping it. Give up. " and "It apparently wishes for a traveling companion. Since it was once human itself, it tries to create one by taking the lives of other humans. ". So yeah. That ghastly/haunter/gengar? They're actually dead people. And they want you to join them.

    And starting with Ruby/Saphire there's also some big scale disaster event that would most certainly cause a lot of collateral damage and deaths before we stop them. Like if you started a massive heat wave or flood, people will suffer and die.

    It's just the lucky protagonist that lucks out in not directly witnessing any of those pokémon related deaths.

    Quote Originally Posted by tgva8889 View Post
    Or even give me a more adult attempt at storytelling, why not? I was going to say they have the resources but apparently they don't actually want to put them towards that so that hope is gone.

    I think the main issue is that selling a Rated T for Teen Pokemon Game would be very difficult for a company that has spent so much time trying to legitimize what is literally a fantasy petfighting simulator.
    Heh, team Plasma's motto was "it's wrong to force pokémon to fight for our amusement", which is quite a mature topic, but then it gets kinda handwaved in that seemingly pokémon do enjoy being enslaved and be thrown into petfights.

    Although there was also that pokémon manga chapter where an Haunter prefers to self-destruct for real that let itself be captured.

    But yeah, at the end of the day hunting down hundreds of living beings and stuffing them into tiny balls with only one allowed to breath air at a time is probably something that shouldn't be explored too deeply if one wants to enjoy the game.

    Speaking of which, more general question, what happens to pokémon after their trainer dies of natural causes? Are they treated like property and passed down as inheritance? Do pokémon even age while inside the balls? Could you go check grandpa's collection after his funeral only to find out most of them only have corpses now? Or if they're kept in perfect stasis (no need to feed/clean them after all), could a pokémon spend decades locked before somebody remembers to check on them?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Of Mantas View Post
    "You know, Durkon, I built this planet up from nothing. When I started here, all there was was a snarl. All the other gods said we were daft to build a planet over a snarl, but I built it all the same, just to show then. It got eaten by the snarl...

    ...so we built a five millionth, three hundreth, twenty first one. That one burned down, fell over, then got eaten by the snarl, but the five millionth, three hundreth, and twenty second one stayed up! Or at least, it has been until now."

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    Default Re: Pokémon Thread XXIX: Sword, Shield, and Spoilers

    Well I'd guess that since Pokemon is such a light-hearted environmentalist place, I'd guess that the pokemon the trainer owned would be evaluated on their abilities to live in the wild, and if they are too domesticated they'll probably end up being cared for professors like Oak to help contribute to the study of pokemon, or contribute to breeding up the next generation of starters

    if they show that they can still live in the wild, they are just released in an environment that would be suited for them or the safari zone.

    though I guess a trainer could designate how they want their pokemon to be distributed in their will. I don't see why that wouldn't be allowed, and I could see the pokemon taking care of family members until that family member finds another trainer to get them back on the competitive scene if they are still raring to go.

    things like that?

    as for the pokedex entries, generally I take things being shown as more reliable than things told, especially if its an electronic poke-wikipedia offering only a short blurb of information versus an actual pokemon in front of me doing this or that.
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    Default Re: Pokémon Thread XXIX: Sword, Shield, and Spoilers

    There's a big difference between talking about bad things happening and me actually feeling like the villains are a threat. Every time I play Ruby and Sapphire, I feel like Team Aqua/Magma are just morons, and I never get over that fact no matter how many times I play. Even though they're also kinda silly, I always found Cipher to be more threatening. It might require more in-depth analysis to figure out why that is, but maybe it's because the evil teams in Orre actually do seem to be succeeding at their goals until you show up and wreck everything, whereas early interactions with Aqua and Magma make it seem like they would have messed it up and they only succeed because the game needs them to for the plot to work.

    My best example for how Pokemon does stuff like this is X and Y. Lysandre has a weapon that threatens to kill everyone and he comes super close to successfully activating it. So we stop it, and that's great, the world is saved, etc. But then we just move on, the threat is passed, there's no consequences really or fallout from someone trying to end the human race, we go back to being a kid on a journey. I wish the games had more of that "there is real consequence to the bad stuff" in it. Like, part of what I liked about Gold/Silver is that Team Rocket in that it felt like their actions had real consequence. The Red Gyarados is a direct result of their actions, the Radio Tower getting taken over really does affect you until you resolve that problem. And that felt really good to me, in a way that I guess other stuff just doesn't seem to be relevant. I guess Ruby and Sapphire did have the torrential rain/constant sun, but I kind of felt those teams to be totally inept so that threat is more annoying than good. I wish there was more aftermath or a more interesting plot, that's what I want out of a "more mature" Pokemon game.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tgva8889 View Post
    I wish there was more aftermath or a more interesting plot, that's what I want out of a "more mature" Pokemon game.
    Never going to happen at this point, unfortunately.

    My version of a more mature pokemon would be something I call "Dread Tamers". The premise is that long ago the spirits and humans lived in harmony with each other and nature....but then a pandoras box event happened which unleashed knowledge of civilization, but also corrupting the spirits in the process so that they rampage out of control and are dangerous and/or evil. and while the religions think its humanities fault, some philosophers think its the gods fault for this and they can't agree.

    but the problem is....you can't really fight spirits by normal means. no amount of conventional weaponry works on them, and they don't age. so instead you have to use a special magic to purify them so that they're friendly spirits again and bind them to your bracer which has six gems and thus six spirits you can bind to yourself at a time. Now you can kill them with a spirit you tamed yourself, but....see, spirits don't die the same ways humans do. they disperse and their spiritual energy eventually reforms as other spirits of their kind, but there is always a good chance that the new spirit or spirits will be corrupted from the trauma of death or reforming with bits of ambient negativity getting attached, starting the problem all over again.

    but, the spirits have become powerful weapons in the worlds militaries and politics as a result of their properties. they're powerful, they do magical things no soldier can do, and not everyone cares about healing the world, unfortunately some people just want money and power, so you get wars and such where people and spirits die a lot, nations remember past transgressions and don't let go of grudges, things like that, and some people perpetuate the cycle of suffering thinking it hopeless. and the tournament, dueling elements are kept on the logic of "survival of the fittest" and be much more like jojo stand battles than pokemon ones.

    the gym leaders and elite four would be replaced with commanders and generals with the king at the top. but common people would still be friends with spirits on the street level and those purified spirits would be helpful, improving peoples lives as well as protect towns from the dangerous spirits, the politics being shady and sucky, but most people would be decent and not like fighting or conflict just like people in real life. the battling tamers would be a social class of their own.

    of course, thats just base setting. generalities and broad strokes. specifics often change things up.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaOldeWolf View Post
    It is time to bring a new episode of recycled pokemon content.

    And here's a counter statement.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Razade View Post
    and here is a counter, counter statement:
    pokemon model remake: the truth
    its misinformation. they didn't make old pokemon models from scratch.
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    Spoiler: Idea for a plot-twist in a fangame
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    The evil team manages to recruit/ally with a Frontier Brain.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    and here is a counter, counter statement:
    pokemon model remake: the truth
    its misinformation. they didn't make old pokemon models from scratch.
    You're right. They made new models from scratch. Because...they'd be new. They made old pokemon from scratch for the new system. Considering your video however, he's remarking on some...reddit post. I linked to a Polygon article that linked directly to Famitsu and the article in question that both Polygon and Reddit were referencing.

    Your video says that the interview never metioned rebuilding things form scratch. Except it did. The redditor said it was from Matsuda, it wasn't. It was Omori who said it. It is sadly passed through Google to translate...but the question was asked about cutting the number down. Matsuda said this.

    -At "Nintendo Tree House" the other day, Mr. Masuda mentioned "Pokemon Home" and "Pokemon Sword Shield" about Pokemon that can go back and forth. As a development side, I think that it is a very big decision, but please give us some remarks on the process and feelings you chose to narrow down the Pokemon brought to the "Pokemon Sword Shield".

    Masuda Hard moved to the Nintendo Switch, and it became possible to draw Pokemons with more beautiful graphics and liveliness, but on the other hand, it took more time to develop than before. On the other hand, the total number of Pokemon has exceeded 1000, including new Pokemon and the form change of existing Pokemon. As a result, it has become extremely difficult to make Pokemon with a new personality play an active part and to balance the compatibility, in addition to making the graphic a quality adapted to changes in the hardware, and also in terms of battle. . That is the reason for this decision, and we have decided that it is difficult to make all Pokemons appear in future works.
    The interviewer than followed up with this

    -Certainly, considering the graphic quality of "Pokemon Sword Shield", it seems that it will take a considerable amount of time to build them for all Pokemon.

    Masuda This decision is personally sad and sad. Of course, I wanted to be able to bring all Pokemon if I could do it, but it was also a decision that I had to make some day. In the end, I had no choice but to choose the quality.

    Omori This time, along with Masuda, we had considerable discussions. Even in the time of " Pokemon Sun Moon ", it was actually quite a difficult situation (to be able to bring all Pokemon), but the hardware became a Nintendo Switch and the model would be rebuilt from scratch If you have to make a choice of something. However, I think that I understand that you can play "Pokemon Swords-Shield" (though there is a limit to Pokémon being taken), the contents of the play such as wild areas and stories are quite voluminous.
    Bold for emphasis.

    The models had to be rebuilt from scratch. The interview doesn't say why, but we do know the frame rate between the 3DS and the Switch are different, one would be reasonable in thinking that might be a part of it. Who knows what else.

    Regardless. Your video is wrong. The guy said there's no credible source...but there is. The interview he even discussed.
    Last edited by Razade; 2019-07-15 at 03:14 AM.

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