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  1. - Top - End - #1141
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    Default Re: MitD XIII: Learning is happening

    Quote Originally Posted by Ruck View Post
    I think of all the FBS monsters, the Protean best fits the storytelling themes by far.
    Hang on, which Protean do you mean? This Protean? Or... help me out, what book is it in?

  2. - Top - End - #1142
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    Default Re: MitD XIII: Learning is happening

    Quote Originally Posted by HorizonWalker View Post
    Hang on, which Protean do you mean? This Protean?
    Yes, that Protean:

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    Section 3: Proposed Ideas

    Section 3a: Suggestions that Fit the Big Scenes (FBS)
    Spoiler
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    This category groups ideas that fit the clues in the major scenes of MitD, with the following characteristics (as per thread consensus):
    1) Has a plausible explanation for the Escape
    2) Has a plausible explanation for the Tower (both his attack and his defence)
    3) Has a plausible explanation for the Circus (both his act, and the reactions)
    4) Isn't one of the impossible categories (unless it is an exception)
    5) Existed before strip #100 in a form accessible to Rich.
    6) Size no bigger than Huge ("fits in the box")
    7) Is vulnerable to mind-affecting effects (SoD)

    The proposals may still have other objections (such as that the above explanations require stretching the rules of D&D).

    Hagunemnon (Protean) (SRD or ELH 196)
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    Pros:
    • Great strength (53)
    • Access to Planar Travel through convenient partial shapeshift into e.g. Umbral Blot, which includes greater teleport
    • As a psionic creature, it may have been converted by the means described in the Expanded Psionics handbook, which would give him psionic teleport
    • adequate size
    • his shapeshifting sounds disturbing, but has 34 CHA.
    • Normally speak only ever-evolving language impossible for any non-protean to understand, thus being surprising it talks in common.
    • Its psionic ability to detect thoughts would explain his knowledge of the ritual, probably having heard RC's thoughts on the subject.
    • Fluff implies there are protean newborns, so presumably they have some form of parentage ("Even newborns are tides of flesh, ever changing")

    Cons:
    • Plane shift doesn't fit well with the escape as shown (see 1b: The Escape), and while greater teleport fits slightly better, it requires a timely shapeshift into the exact appropriate creature. There is no evidence that psionic-class creatures have been converted as per EP handbook.
    • Its constant shapeshifting has not been reflected in a change of MitD (mouth and eyes stay roughly the same)
    Last edited by hamishspence; 2019-10-06 at 02:24 AM.
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  3. - Top - End - #1143
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    Default Re: MitD XIII: Learning is happening

    So Iíve missed some stuff in this thread. I seem to remember a proposal about something called a Grey Linnorm. What is that, why is it not in the first posts, and is it a contender for MitD?
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  4. - Top - End - #1144
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    Default Re: MitD XIII: Learning is happening

    Quote Originally Posted by Sniccups View Post
    So Iíve missed some stuff in this thread. I seem to remember a proposal about something called a Grey Linnorm. What is that, why is it not in the first posts, and is it a contender for MitD?
    The Dread & corpse tearer are listed. I can't find the stats for the Gray one (note spelling), but in general, linnorms are too big, lack the strength, and tend to have bad explanation for the teleport or, when they do, no explanation to why MitD couldn't have helped raise undead without gaining levels.

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    Quote Originally Posted by woweedd View Post
    I would say that's the dumbest theory Grey Wolf's heard, but, let's be honest: It's Grey Wolf. They've probably heard dumber theories today. Point is, neat idea, but it's a real stretch.
    Ceterum autem censeo Hilgya malefica est

  5. - Top - End - #1145
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    Default Re: MitD XIII: Learning is happening

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    The Dread & corpse tearer are listed. I can't find the stats for the Gray one (note spelling), but in general, linnorms are too big, lack the strength, and tend to have bad explanation for the teleport or, when they do, no explanation to why MitD couldn't have helped raise undead without gaining levels.

    Grey Wolf
    Right, that makes sense. MitD can teleport people somehow, but explicitly canít Animate Dead.
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  6. - Top - End - #1146
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    Default Re: MitD XIII: Learning is happening

    Oh, btw, I finally added the last few MitD predicts folks have made.
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  7. - Top - End - #1147
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    Default Re: MitD XIII: Learning is happening

    Quote Originally Posted by Elves View Post
    I'm sure this has been mentioned, for time's sake I'm just saying it without checking: in #1041 the monster paints a door on the upper left that's like 20 feet up from the ground.
    Yes, this is noted in section 2c: Tracks, although the focus is not so much "how he got to the high doors" (which is easy with sufficient strength) and more "how is it the snow is undisturbed, when he did".

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    Quote Originally Posted by woweedd View Post
    I would say that's the dumbest theory Grey Wolf's heard, but, let's be honest: It's Grey Wolf. They've probably heard dumber theories today. Point is, neat idea, but it's a real stretch.
    Ceterum autem censeo Hilgya malefica est

  8. - Top - End - #1148
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    Default Re: MitD XIII: Learning is happening

    Feels like weíve got a Team Evil update coming soon. I can smell it.
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  9. - Top - End - #1149
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    Default Re: MitD XIII: Learning is happening

    A small point about the Confusion aura of the Uvuudaum: it's limited to 30 feet, which is quite small. It can easily be 30 feet across the circus ring to the audience. And a young uvuudaum's aura might well be smaller or weaker or both.

  10. - Top - End - #1150
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    Default Re: MitD XIII: Learning is happening

    Quote Originally Posted by Crusher View Post
    Feels like weíve got a Team Evil update coming soon. I can smell it.
    You mean Tarquin? I doubt it. He is too smart to be manipulated, and his old team is not likely stick their heads out after all the losses they have taken already.
    I expect new fresh blood on the scene.
    Last edited by Hardcore; 2019-10-23 at 01:02 PM.
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  11. - Top - End - #1151
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    Default Re: MitD XIII: Learning is happening

    Quote Originally Posted by Hardcore View Post
    You mean Tarquin? I doubt it. He is too smart to be manipulated, and his old team is not likely stick their heads out after all the losses they have taken already.
    I expect new fresh blood on the scene.
    No, Tarquin's part of the Vector Legion. Team Evil is Xykon, Redcloak, and the Monster in the Darkness.

  12. - Top - End - #1152
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    Default Re: MitD XIII: Learning is happening

    If it was Tarquin that would be even more off-topic than your average comic thread.
    Spoiler: Read this if I've posted a theory in the post above
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schroeswald View Post
    I recognize that Conservation of Detail is Overrated, but I find the event that I am using as evidence for my theory above important enough/given enough focus to qualify for what I call Elanís Exception, ďWho wastes perfectly good foreshadowing like that?Ē. Also I have never correctly predicted any event in any piece of media so take this theory with a grain of salt (I call this Peeleeís Ye Old Reminder).

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  13. - Top - End - #1153
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    Default Re: MitD XIII: Learning is happening

    Quote Originally Posted by Schroeswald View Post
    If it was Tarquin that would be even more off-topic than your average comic thread.
    If Tarquin was a Star War, where would he live on Discworld?

  14. - Top - End - #1154
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    Default Re: MitD XIII: Learning is happening

    Quote Originally Posted by Ruck View Post
    If Tarquin was a Star War, where would he live on Discworld?
    I'm gonna guess Middle Hogwarts.
    Spoiler: Read this if I've posted a theory in the post above
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schroeswald View Post
    I recognize that Conservation of Detail is Overrated, but I find the event that I am using as evidence for my theory above important enough/given enough focus to qualify for what I call Elanís Exception, ďWho wastes perfectly good foreshadowing like that?Ē. Also I have never correctly predicted any event in any piece of media so take this theory with a grain of salt (I call this Peeleeís Ye Old Reminder).

    Quote Originally Posted by Squire Doodad View Post
    "A sufficiently big wedge of cheese is indistinguishable from an aircraft."

  15. - Top - End - #1155
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    Default Re: MitD XIII: Learning is happening

    Quote Originally Posted by Schroeswald View Post
    I'm gonna guess Middle Hogwarts.
    Which would probably involve a long Trek and Logan running.
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  16. - Top - End - #1156
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    Default Re: MitD XIII: Learning is happening

    Quote Originally Posted by Sniccups View Post
    So Iíve missed some stuff in this thread. I seem to remember a proposal about something called a Grey Linnorm. What is that, why is it not in the first posts, and is it a contender for MitD?
    Yes, see post 9. It's CR 20, "usually" CE, normally Huge, has DR, can fling people 70 feet, fly SLA at-will, and casts as a cleric 17 which gives it access to miracle, earthquake, plane shift, etc. It's definitely a contender.

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  17. - Top - End - #1157
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    Default Re: MitD XIII: Learning is happening

    Quote Originally Posted by Elves View Post
    Yes, see post 9. It's CR 20, "usually" CE, normally Huge, has DR, can fling people 70 feet, fly SLA at-will, and casts as a cleric 17 which gives it access to miracle, earthquake, plane shift, etc. It's definitely a contender.
    (emphasis mine)

    It's a contender in the sense that it has been suggested, but the clerical abilities do not match the available evidence of Redcloak asserting that MitD cannot raise dead without gaining 5 cleric levels.

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    Quote Originally Posted by woweedd View Post
    I would say that's the dumbest theory Grey Wolf's heard, but, let's be honest: It's Grey Wolf. They've probably heard dumber theories today. Point is, neat idea, but it's a real stretch.
    Ceterum autem censeo Hilgya malefica est

  18. - Top - End - #1158
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    smile Re: MitD XIII: Learning is happening

    Quote Originally Posted by Crusher View Post
    Oh, btw, I finally added the last few MitD predicts folks have made.
    Still covering up that we all know it is a vorlon I see....
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  19. - Top - End - #1159
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    Default Re: MitD XIII: Learning is happening

    Quote Originally Posted by mitth'raw'nuruo View Post
    still covering up that we all know it is a vorlon i see....
    SHHHHHHHHH!

    (They'll hear you.)
    Last edited by Crusher; 2019-10-28 at 10:37 AM.
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    Default Re: MitD XIII: Learning is happening

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    (emphasis mine)

    It's a contender in the sense that it has been suggested, but the clerical abilities do not match the available evidence of Redcloak asserting that MitD cannot raise dead without gaining 5 cleric levels.

    Grey Wolf
    Hmm, an adult of the species would have those levels, but MitD is still young, right?
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  21. - Top - End - #1161
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    Default Re: MitD XIII: Learning is happening

    Quote Originally Posted by Hardcore View Post
    Hmm, an adult of the species would have those levels, but MitD is still young, right?
    No. The linnorms cast as if they had those levels, but they don't actually have levels in cleric (i.e. they can't also banish undead like a 17th level cleric, or do any of the other things an NPC with class levels would be able to do due to being a level 17 cleric). If MitD was X birthdays away from being able to cast because he was, say, a linnorm, RC would say something along the lines of "did you celebrate your birthday while I wasn't looking and now can raise dead?"

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    Last edited by Grey_Wolf_c; 2019-10-29 at 10:32 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by woweedd View Post
    I would say that's the dumbest theory Grey Wolf's heard, but, let's be honest: It's Grey Wolf. They've probably heard dumber theories today. Point is, neat idea, but it's a real stretch.
    Ceterum autem censeo Hilgya malefica est

  22. - Top - End - #1162
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    Default Re: MitD XIII: Learning is happening

    Quote Originally Posted by Crusher View Post
    Which would probably involve a long Trek and Logan running.
    He is the best at what he does, after all.

  23. - Top - End - #1163
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    Default Re: MitD XIII: Learning is happening

    Quote Originally Posted by Hardcore View Post
    You mean Tarquin? I doubt it. He is too smart to be manipulated, and his old team is not likely stick their heads out after all the losses they have taken already.
    I expect new fresh blood on the scene.
    Quote Originally Posted by HorizonWalker View Post
    No, Tarquin's part of the Vector Legion. Team Evil is Xykon, Redcloak, and the Monster in the Darkness.
    Quote Originally Posted by Schroeswald View Post
    If it was Tarquin that would be even more off-topic than your average comic thread.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ruck View Post
    If Tarquin was a Star War, where would he live on Discworld?
    Who's this Tarquin you ocasionally talk about? I seem to remember some unimportant bad guy with grandeur issues, but no one worthy of appearing on a panel again. (and that's how he's defeated)
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    Default Re: MitD XIII: Learning is happening

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    No. The linnorms cast as if they had those levels, but they don't actually have levels in cleric (i.e. they can't also banish undead like a 17th level cleric, or do any of the other things an NPC with class levels would be able to do due to being a level 17 cleric).
    Heck, gray linnorms don't even have 17 "levels" period; they only have 13 hit dice.
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    Default Re: MitD XIII: Learning is happening

    Sorry if I missed this, I DID read through the first few pages of this thread.

    Start of Darkness Prequel book question: When Xykon saw MITD for the first time, Xykon's eyes were large. Was he scared of MITD? As in lower level that MITD? or....

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    Default Re: MitD XIII: Learning is happening

    Quote Originally Posted by Syncrogti View Post
    Start of Darkness Prequel book question: When Xykon saw MITD for the first time, Xykon's eyes were large.
    It was to better see him with them...
    Each one of us, alone, is but a drop in the sea
    Our powers pale compared with the great heroes
    Our battles donít hit theheadlines or shake the earth
    But they are few, canít be everywhere, and we, many
    So, when the world or universe needs saving, they come
    But when people needs saving, we are the ones to appear
    We're underdogs, but we rise up to the challenge to be heroes.
    (Wishing Joe, a low-powered superhero)

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  27. - Top - End - #1167
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    Default Re: MitD XIII: Learning is happening

    Quote Originally Posted by Syncrogti View Post
    Sorry if I missed this, I DID read through the first few pages of this thread.

    Start of Darkness Prequel book question: When Xykon saw MITD for the first time, Xykon's eyes were large. Was he scared of MITD? As in lower level that MITD? or....
    The accompanying speech seems to suggest he was astonished at how ugly MitD is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by woweedd View Post
    I would say that's the dumbest theory Grey Wolf's heard, but, let's be honest: It's Grey Wolf. They've probably heard dumber theories today. Point is, neat idea, but it's a real stretch.
    Ceterum autem censeo Hilgya malefica est

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    Default Re: MitD XIII: Learning is happening

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    The accompanying speech seems to suggest he was astonished at how ugly MitD is.

    Grey Wolf
    Did it appear that the humans had a different reaction/thought he was uglier than the goblins did?

  29. - Top - End - #1169
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    Default Re: MitD XIII: Learning is happening

    Quote Originally Posted by Syncrogti View Post
    Did it appear that the humans had a different reaction/thought he was uglier than the goblins did?
    Yes, but a big part of it might be that the goblins are return customers, so the shock value would be significantly diminished. One of the humans, too, thought he was beautiful without disagreeing that he was horrible, so it is not entirely along species lines.

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    Last edited by Grey_Wolf_c; 2019-11-04 at 03:38 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by woweedd View Post
    I would say that's the dumbest theory Grey Wolf's heard, but, let's be honest: It's Grey Wolf. They've probably heard dumber theories today. Point is, neat idea, but it's a real stretch.
    Ceterum autem censeo Hilgya malefica est

  30. - Top - End - #1170
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    Default Re: MitD XIII: Learning is happening

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    The accompanying speech seems to suggest he was astonished at how ugly MitD is.
    If you were in the process of growing out of your giant carp stage into a lion with wings, you wouldn't look so great either.

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