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  1. - Top - End - #151
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    ElfWarriorGuy

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    Default Re: MitD XIII: Learning is happening

    Quote Originally Posted by Edreyn View Post
    Can he be a creature from a children folklore and fairy tales?

    I tried to use Akinator to try if it finds out who MitD can be. Of course, the first result was Monster in the Dark, so I chose this as "wrong" answer, and kept on guessing.
    So, after about 70 questions, Akinator twice gave the "Boogeyman" answer. At this stage, I stopped, and moved to Wikipedia.
    And, I found out about creature named "Coco".

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coco_(folklore)

    I will copy what I find most relevant:


    This means that there is more then creature. Potentially, they can even have children.



    Remember MitD compaining, that Xykon forces him to eat children? And also Xykon tells to devour Redcloak is he misbehaves.



    Can be an explanation to teleport scene. Which is one of most hard.



    Explains circus scene.


    As for other aspects:
    1) I didn't find information if they can talk or not.
    2) Have Spanish and\or Carribean origin. MitD was found in the jungle, which fits the scene. Though, yes, hunter were surprised to see him. Maybe because those species are from continental Spain climate, and not Carribean?
    3) Expected to be VERY evil
    4) If you follow the link and see the photos, you can see that it can be almost any size - from human shaped, to much larger.
    Spaniard here, and delighted that you are bringing this piece from our childhood to the board :) thank you!


    A few notes to complement:
    1. el Coco is always hidden in the shadows. Let it be the dark basement, behind heavy furniture or under an odd umbrella... waiting for the misbehaving children
    2. el Coco is not supposed to talk... just to come and take you for a late evening snack! Hence quite surprising if it has MITD loquacity

  2. - Top - End - #152
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    Joerg's Avatar

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    Default Re: MitD XIII: Learning is happening

    Quote Originally Posted by Ruck View Post
    1) I don't agree with. Rich has specifically said "It is possible to guess" what the MitD is; all his statements on the subject indicate the clues he gives in strip are consistent with the species of the character. I fully disagree that he will provide inaccurate details of MitD's species then handwave those details away with "It's cartoon logic."
    But he has now lampshaded several times that the MitD is smaller than its species, so there actually are clues that the size shown in the comic should be disregarded. I am pretty convinced that it's larger than medium, and while I personally don't believe it could grow to be gargantuan (or larger), I wouldn't cry foul either if it turned out to have such a species.
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  3. - Top - End - #153
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    BardGuy

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    Default Re: MitD XIII: Learning is happening

    A few notes to complement:
    1. el Coco is always hidden in the shadows. Let it be the dark basement, behind heavy furniture or under an odd umbrella... waiting for the misbehaving children
    2. el Coco is not supposed to talk... just to come and take you for a late evening snack! Hence quite surprising if it has MITD loquacity
    1) That's exactly what MitD is doing all the time
    2) Exactly - MitD is surprising to everyone who sees him for the first time, but is familiar with his species

    So, what remains is to find either a proof or a contradiction to Coco's great strength.
    I didn't find it in the wiki. Maybe you, as someone familiar with original stories, can help here?
    Last edited by Edreyn; 2019-04-02 at 01:46 PM.

  4. - Top - End - #154
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    Default Re: MitD XIII: Learning is happening

    Quote Originally Posted by Joerg View Post
    But he has now lampshaded several times that the MitD is smaller than its species, so there actually are clues that the size shown in the comic should be disregarded. I am pretty convinced that it's larger than medium, and while I personally don't believe it could grow to be gargantuan (or larger), I wouldn't cry foul either if it turned out to have such a species.
    And has been mentioned repeatedly, given the behavior of MitD, he's probably some sort of juvenile/adolescent of his species, as opposed to a small child or newborn, so we should expect the difference between his current size and his full-grown adult size to be roughly proportional to whatever that would be.

  5. - Top - End - #155
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    RedWizardGuy

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    Default Re: MitD XIII: Learning is happening

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    I think we already got the "update on progress" scene for Team Evil for this book. I'd expect the next we meet them would be at the start of the next book, to re-center the narrative on them.

    But I cannot discard a "breakthrough" moment at the end of this book either sort of like the "Next stop, Azure City" splash page.

    Grey Wolf
    I could definitely see that sort of thing happening. Could be something along the lines of them actually getting to the last Gate, which sets a clock for the Order to get to them.


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  6. - Top - End - #156
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    Default Re: MitD XIII: Learning is happening

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaxzan Proditor View Post
    I could definitely see that sort of thing happening. Could be something along the lines of them actually getting to the last Gate, which sets a clock for the Order to get to them.
    My personal prediction is that O'Chul and Lien won't make it to the end of the book. Just to remind you how serious Team Evil can be - like the death of Tsukiko or the destruction of the resistance.
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  7. - Top - End - #157
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    Default Re: MitD XIII: Learning is happening

    Quote Originally Posted by Ruck View Post
    And has been mentioned repeatedly, given the behavior of MitD, he's probably some sort of juvenile/adolescent of his species, as opposed to a small child or newborn, so we should expect the difference between his current size and his full-grown adult size to be roughly proportional to whatever that would be.
    Which has already been said that it could easily be one size category based on D&D giants, real snakes and the general opinion that imaginary monsters may work differently, so now the discussion is going in circles and I will stop here. Besides, his small size may be because he's a child, but that needs not be the only reason. He could be a dungeonbred child for example, and already two size categories are possible.

    Regarding Kish's second suggestion, I am still interested in whether there is actually a creature which would enter the FBS category if we change that.
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  8. - Top - End - #158
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    Default Re: MitD XIII: Learning is happening

    Quote Originally Posted by Joerg View Post
    Regarding Kish's second suggestion, I am still interested in whether there is actually a creature which would enter the FBS category if we change that.
    All would involve a judgment call by Grey Wolf, but glancing over the thread-starting posts, cherub, dream larva, and infernal all might.
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    "The really unforgivable acts are committed by calm men in beautiful green silk rooms, who deal death wholesale, by the shipload, without lust, or anger, or desire, or any redeeming emotion to excuse them but cold fear of some pretended future. But the crimes they hope to prevent in the future are imaginary. The ones they commit in the present--they are real." --Aral Vorkosigan

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    This, in a nutshell.
    Yes, exactly.

  9. - Top - End - #159
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    WolfInSheepsClothing

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    Default Re: MitD XIII: Learning is happening

    Quote Originally Posted by LeSwordfish View Post
    My personal prediction is that O'Chul and Lien won't make it to the end of the book. Just to remind you how serious Team Evil can be - like the death of Tsukiko or the destruction of the resistance.

    If O-Chulís in danger I think mitd will save him.

  10. - Top - End - #160
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    NinjaGuy

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    Default Re: MitD XIII: Learning is happening

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalFailure View Post
    If O-Chulís in danger I think mitd will save him.
    Either that, or O-Chulís death will motivate MitD to fully turn against Team Evil
    Last edited by Darc_Vader; 2019-04-02 at 03:05 PM.

  11. - Top - End - #161
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: MitD XIII: Learning is happening

    Quote Originally Posted by Darc_Vader View Post
    Either that, or O-Chulís death will motivate MitD to fully turn against Team Evil
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalFailure View Post
    If O-Chulís in danger I think mitd will save him.
    Both of these are plausible courses of actions, I don't think O-Chul or Lien will die though. Either way, if someone so much as slaps O-Chul, MitD will probably make them dead quite soon. Or Soon, if the case may be.
    (No significance in that last line, just puns)
    An explanation of why MitD being any larger than Huge is implausible.

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    It shall be swift and ruthless. Unless any Ruths intend to join, in which case it shall be ruthful.
    Purple is the color of humorous descriptions made up on the fly
    Green is the color of serious conversation about theoretical ideas, if transitioning from other stuff
    Blue is the color of irony and sarcasm


    In the end, its all in the cards...

  12. - Top - End - #162
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    RedWizardGuy

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    Default Re: MitD XIII: Learning is happening

    Quote Originally Posted by LeSwordfish View Post
    My personal prediction is that O'Chul and Lien won't make it to the end of the book. Just to remind you how serious Team Evil can be - like the death of Tsukiko or the destruction of the resistance.
    Interestingly enough, I had considered putting that in as another example, but I feel like that might be a little too dark for OOTS. Not that itís impossible for major characters to die, of course, but I lean towards it being unlikely.
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalFailure View Post
    If O-Chulís in danger I think mitd will save him.
    That, on the other hand, I could see, and it might give this thread some nice material.


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  13. - Top - End - #163
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    Default Re: MitD XIII: Learning is happening

    I don't think O-Chul or Lien will die, though I can't rule it out. I have long had my money on MitD's reveal being to save O-Chul's life.

  14. - Top - End - #164
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    Default Re: MitD XIII: Learning is happening

    Quote Originally Posted by Brumagris View Post
    Spaniard here, and delighted that you are bringing this piece from our childhood to the board :) thank you!


    A few notes to complement:
    1. el Coco is always hidden in the shadows. Let it be the dark basement, behind heavy furniture or under an odd umbrella... waiting for the misbehaving children
    2. el Coco is not supposed to talk... just to come and take you for a late evening snack! Hence quite surprising if it has MITD loquacity
    Ok, that link to El Coco is pretty awesome. Coconuts might have been named after it! Really a cool suggestion.
    Last edited by Crusher; 2019-04-02 at 04:45 PM.

  15. - Top - End - #165
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    WolfInSheepsClothing

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    Default Re: MitD XIII: Learning is happening

    Quote Originally Posted by Ruck View Post
    I don't think O-Chul or Lien will die, though I can't rule it out. I have long had my money on MitD's reveal being to save O-Chul's life.
    Thatís a cool idea. Also doubt theyíll die.

  16. - Top - End - #166
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    Default Re: MitD XIII: Learning is happening

    Also interesting from the link to El Coco is a link to the Peluda from french folklore, which is also a decent candidate. I need to look into it more (probably next week), but some of its abilities:

    - Immense strength (it makes a river split just by stomping)
    - Near invulnerability (it is impervious to damage except for cutting off its tail which kills it)
    - Weird looking (I forget exactly, but its a bunch of things stuck together. Its also covered with tentacles)
    - Dangerous in a bunch of ways: fire breath, poisonous stingers which it can shoot from its tentacles, and maybe acid breath

    If it had a good Escape answer Iíd be proposing it as an FBS candidate.

    Edit - As a side-note, I think the discussion around MitDís size is actually proving very fruitful. In time, there are a couple other points I hope we can similarly discuss, but I donít want to sidetrack us.
    Last edited by Crusher; 2019-04-02 at 05:13 PM.

  17. - Top - End - #167
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    Default Re: MitD XIII: Learning is happening

    Spoiler: Notes to self before I forget
    Show
    The change in the shape of the eyes is at #109
    ETA: #117: bigger than goblin's eyes
    ETA2: #181: the young black dragon wouldn't fit under the umbrella
    ETA3: #202: Miko, Detect Evil, Blue eyes
    ETA4: #208: Miko, Detect Evil, Black eyes
    [strike]ETA5: #214: Ogre's eyes are wider apart than human's ones[/strike]
    ETA5: #281: Miko, Detect Evil, Blue eyes, failure(lead)
    ETA6: #475: two Haleys barely fit under the umbrella
    ETA7: #477: stomp shape + didn't know he could do something he'd already done once
    Last edited by Jineon; 2019-04-04 at 11:49 AM.
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  18. - Top - End - #168
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    Default Re: MitD XIII: Learning is happening

    The problem with MitD being a creature of folklore is that it will make people go "-Que?" at the time of reveal. I really doubt that was the idea. Of course, Americans have a tendency of assuming the generality of their culture so it could very well be something from American folklore.

    It is most likely MitD is a D&D creature, with a possibility for something from popular culture.
    Darwin made my pretty Avatar.


  19. - Top - End - #169
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    Default Re: MitD XIII: Learning is happening

    Quote Originally Posted by Crusher View Post
    Also interesting from the link to El Coco is a link to the Peluda from french folklore, which is also a decent candidate. I need to look into it more (probably next week), but some of its abilities:

    - Immense strength (it makes a river split just by stomping)
    - Near invulnerability (it is impervious to damage except for cutting off its tail which kills it)
    - Weird looking (I forget exactly, but its a bunch of things stuck together. Its also covered with tentacles)
    - Dangerous in a bunch of ways: fire breath, poisonous stingers which it can shoot from its tentacles, and maybe acid breath

    If it had a good Escape answer Iíd be proposing it as an FBS candidate.

    Edit - As a side-note, I think the discussion around MitDís size is actually proving very fruitful. In time, there are a couple other points I hope we can similarly discuss, but I donít want to sidetrack us.
    having Spanish origin could also explain why "5 de mayo" happened on the battlefield as Xykon bursted out, with all those mexican zombies mariachis? :o

  20. - Top - End - #170
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    Default Re: MitD XIII: Learning is happening

    Quote Originally Posted by Vendanna View Post
    having Spanish origin could also explain why "5 de mayo" happened on the battlefield as Xykon bursted out, with all those mexican zombies mariachis? :o
    ...

    It really isn't. 5 de Mayo is not a pan-Mexican celebration. It is not their independence day, or anything like that.

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    Last edited by Grey_Wolf_c; 2019-04-03 at 02:51 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by woweedd View Post
    I would say that's the dumbest theory Grey Wolf's heard, but, let's be honest: It's Grey Wolf. They've probably heard dumber theories today. Point is, neat idea, but it's a real stretch.
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  21. - Top - End - #171
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    Default Re: MitD XIII: Learning is happening

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    It really isn't. 5 de Mayo is not a pan-Mexican celebration. It is not their independence day, or anything like that.
    Tacos are delicious regardless of the date, in any event. Even if that event is Cinco de Mayo and associated promotional discounts.

  22. - Top - End - #172
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    Default Re: MitD XIII: Learning is happening

    Quote Originally Posted by Hardcore View Post
    The problem with MitD being a creature of folklore is that it will make people go "-Que?" at the time of reveal. I really doubt that was the idea. Of course, Americans have a tendency of assuming the generality of their culture so it could very well be something from American folklore.

    It is most likely MitD is a D&D creature, with a possibility for something from popular culture.
    I can't see how MitD being a recognizable creature means anything, given that there aren't really any recognizable creatures that are a) super strong, b) capable of the escape, and c), as small (and possibly as young) as MitD is indicated to be. Besides, how many people outside of this forum are familiar with the appearances of any of the FBS candidates? The fact that we still don't exactly know what the worm was that Hel provided her priest with on #1158 (and most of us certainly couldn't be able to identify it without the aid of whichever Monster's Manual provided its stablock) should be indication enough that recognizability isn't a factor in the reveal that Rich has in mind.

    Also, I don't feel like the general ignorance Americans possess of other culture's folklore has anything to do with the choice Rich made for who MitD is. I'm inclined to agree that it will be a D&D creature, though that's no more a con for El Coco as it is for the Carbosilicate Amorph.

    On a different note, I feel like O-Chul might survive after MitD reveals himself. It would make sense for him to have an "Aha!" moment, and reveal for the readers (or potentially to the Order and/or Lien) what MitD actually is. At least, it makes sense to me!
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  23. - Top - End - #173
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    Default Re: MitD XIII: Learning is happening

    A D&D monster is more probable simply because of the setting of the work and little more. There are mythological entities so obscure that they would not be probable since not even Rich would have heard of them, but for the most part lots of things are fair game. For all we know, Rich went on an encyclopedia binge a week before deciding on MitD and dug up some relatively unusual lore that contained what he chose MitD to be.
    An explanation of why MitD being any larger than Huge is implausible.

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    It shall be swift and ruthless. Unless any Ruths intend to join, in which case it shall be ruthful.
    Purple is the color of humorous descriptions made up on the fly
    Green is the color of serious conversation about theoretical ideas, if transitioning from other stuff
    Blue is the color of irony and sarcasm


    In the end, its all in the cards...

  24. - Top - End - #174
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    ElfWarriorGuy

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    Default Re: MitD XIII: Learning is happening

    Quote Originally Posted by Edreyn View Post
    1) That's exactly what MitD is doing all the time
    2) Exactly - MitD is surprising to everyone who sees him for the first time, but is familiar with his species

    So, what remains is to find either a proof or a contradiction to Coco's great strength.
    I didn't find it in the wiki. Maybe you, as someone familiar with original stories, can help here?
    Sadly I don't recall much about his strength, just that it is nearly unbeatable (damage reduction? :) ). You can just avoid it by behaving well/eating your veggies/going to bed on time, but there isn't a real chance to defeat it

  25. - Top - End - #175
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    Default Re: MitD XIII: Learning is happening

    Quote Originally Posted by Jasdoif View Post
    Tacos are delicious regardless of the date, in any event.
    Last edited by KrankenWagon; 2019-04-03 at 06:18 PM.
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    Default Re: MitD XIII: Learning is happening

    Quote Originally Posted by Brumagris View Post
    Spaniard here, and delighted that you are bringing this piece from our childhood to the board :) thank you!


    A few notes to complement:
    1. el Coco is always hidden in the shadows. Let it be the dark basement, behind heavy furniture or under an odd umbrella... waiting for the misbehaving children
    2. el Coco is not supposed to talk... just to come and take you for a late evening snack! Hence quite surprising if it has MITD loquacity
    Wait...MITD HATES being in the shadows. He wants nothing more then to leave them.

  27. - Top - End - #177
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    Default Re: MitD XIII: Learning is happening

    Quote Originally Posted by woweedd View Post
    Wait...MITD HATES being in the shadows. He wants nothing more then to leave them.
    Yes, but that may well be unusual for his kind. It's a character trait, not a species trait. Wanting light in particular (as opposed to just leaving the shadows) is also a character trait but does rule out photophobic candidates such as Grues.
    An explanation of why MitD being any larger than Huge is implausible.

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    It shall be swift and ruthless. Unless any Ruths intend to join, in which case it shall be ruthful.
    Purple is the color of humorous descriptions made up on the fly
    Green is the color of serious conversation about theoretical ideas, if transitioning from other stuff
    Blue is the color of irony and sarcasm


    In the end, its all in the cards...

  28. - Top - End - #178
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    Default Re: MitD XIII: Learning is happening

    Wait...MITD HATES being in the shadows. He wants nothing more then to leave them.
    Many people hate what parents forced upon them. If MitD is a son of male el Coco and female la Coca, it's possible that they forced him to love darkness, and in result he now hates it.
    Last edited by Edreyn; 2019-04-05 at 04:01 PM.

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    Default Re: MitD XIII: Learning is happening

    Quote Originally Posted by Edreyn View Post
    If MitD is a son of male el Coco and female el Coca,
    If you want to gender the words, remember that every word in Spanish has a gender, including the articles. It should be "female la Coca."
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    "The really unforgivable acts are committed by calm men in beautiful green silk rooms, who deal death wholesale, by the shipload, without lust, or anger, or desire, or any redeeming emotion to excuse them but cold fear of some pretended future. But the crimes they hope to prevent in the future are imaginary. The ones they commit in the present--they are real." --Aral Vorkosigan

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    This, in a nutshell.
    Yes, exactly.

  30. - Top - End - #180
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    Default Re: MitD XIII: Learning is happening

    If you want to gender the words, remember that every word in Spanish has a gender, including the articles. It should be "female la Coca."
    Thank you, fixed.

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