Page 3 of 10 FirstFirst 12345678910 LastLast
Results 61 to 90 of 280
  1. - Top - End - #61
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Fyraltari's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    France
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: What does the Crimson Mantle’s aging block do?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rrmcklin View Post
    Why do you have that impression? If it's because of what Right-Eye said, it should be pointed out it's not like Right-Eye is an expert on how the Crimson Mantle actually functions.
    He is however an expert on how Redcloak actually functions having known him his entire life and all.

    People mature and change because the passing of time forces them to. Right-Eye gave up on the plan because he wanted a family and realized he couldn’t do both. Redcloak being eternally young looses all reminders that his body would give him of the limited time he has. He won’t change until forced to by something he cannot ignore, like the ending of SoD.

    Redcloak doesn’t want to change, very few people do as changing is hard and often painful but unlike real people and (most OOTS people) he can (mostly) afford not to.
    Last edited by Fyraltari; 2019-04-03 at 04:58 PM.

  2. - Top - End - #62
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Peelee's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Birmingham, AL
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: What does the Crimson Mantle’s aging block do?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    He is however an expert on how Redcloak actually functions having known him his entire life and all.

    People mature and change because the passing of time forces them to. Right-Eye gave up on the plan because he wanted a family and realized he couldn’t do both. Redcloak being eternally young looses all reminders that his body would give him of the limited time he has. He won’t change until forced to by something he cannot ignore, like the ending of SoD.

    Redcloak doesn’t want to change, very few people do as changing is hard and often painful but unlike real people and (most OOTS people) he can (mostly) afford not to.
    Except all the other times Redcloak changed.
    Last edited by Peelee; 2019-04-03 at 05:10 PM.
    Cuthalion's avatars rock. Like this very fine dragon he made me.

  3. - Top - End - #63
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Fyraltari's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    France
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: What does the Crimson Mantle’s aging block do?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Spoiler: Start of Darkness
    Show
    Except all the other times Redcloak changed.
    He does not change within SoD.
    "Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced."
    Gehm's corollary to Clarke's Third Law



    Forum Wisdom

  4. - Top - End - #64
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Peelee's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Birmingham, AL
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: What does the Crimson Mantle’s aging block do?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    He does not change within SoD.
    Yeah, I started to write a lot more and then truncated it severely.
    Cuthalion's avatars rock. Like this very fine dragon he made me.

  5. - Top - End - #65
    Orc in the Playground
     
    WolfInSheepsClothing

    Join Date
    Dec 2018

    Default Re: What does the Crimson Mantle’s aging block do?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    He is however an expert on how Redcloak actually functions having known him his entire life and all.

    People mature and change because the passing of time forces them to. Right-Eye gave up on the plan because he wanted a family and realized he couldn’t do both. Redcloak being eternally young looses all reminders that his body would give him of the limited time he has. He won’t change until forced to by something he cannot ignore, like the ending of SoD.

    Redcloak doesn’t want to change, very few people do as changing is hard and often painful but unlike real people and (most OOTS people) he can (mostly) afford not to.
    I think he’s right about Redcloak not maturing and not gaining the perspective you get by aging, but idk if he’s that much of an expert on how Redcloak actually functions. I think it was obvious to him his brother hadn’t matured in the years they’d been apart, but when it comes to other topics he maybe has less insight.

    For one thing, that conversation was the first time he realized that Redcloak has the sunk cost fallacy thing due to his hang-ups with taking responsibility for the plan, apparently.

    Spoiler
    Show
    additionally the fact that he never mentioned what he was planning to do to Xykon until the last minute, and the understandable but strategically poorly-conceived choice to push Redcloak away after being drafted by Xykon, as shown when he calls Redcloak “Xykon’s pet goblin.”

    I say this was strategically a poor choice because Right-Eye saw Redcloak change his mind when he was shown what he was missing out on and presented a viable alternative. While it completely makes sense for Right-Eye to no longer want anything to do with Redcloak after what happened, in order to get him on board with striking against Xykon when the time was right I think he needed to get him to be able to see an alternative to pursuing the plan, and further isolating him worked directly against that.

    Redcloak also repeatedly demonstrates a better understanding of Xykon than Right-Eye and if he had told his brother sooner it would’ve pre-empted the excuses about what Xykon would do and he could’ve taken advantage of Redcloak’s better understanding of Xykon to improve his plan.

    Basically I think strategically things would’ve worked out better if he’d either brought Redcloak in on things earlier or not told him about it at all and just done it.
    Last edited by CriticalFailure; 2019-04-03 at 07:08 PM.

  6. - Top - End - #66
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Fyraltari's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    France
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: What does the Crimson Mantle’s aging block do?

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalFailure View Post
    I think he’s right about Redcloak not maturing and not gaining the perspective you get by aging, but idk if he’s that much of an expert on how Redcloak actually functions. I think it was obvious to him his brother hadn’t matured in the years they’d been apart, but when it comes to other topics he maybe has less insight.

    For one thing, that conversation was the first time he realized that Redcloak has the sunk cost fallacy thing due to his hang-ups with taking responsibility for the plan, apparently.
    So?

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalFailure View Post
    Spoiler
    Show
    additionally the fact that he never mentioned what he was planning to do to Xykon until the last minute, and the understandable but strategically poorly-conceived choice to push Redcloak away after being drafted by Xykon, as shown when he calls Redcloak “Xykon’s pet goblin.”

    I say this was strategically a poor choice because Right-Eye saw Redcloak change his mind when he was shown what he was missing out on and presented a viable alternative. While it completely makes sense for Right-Eye to no longer want anything to do with Redcloak after what happened, in order to get him on board with striking against Xykon when the time was right I think he needed to get him to be able to see an alternative to pursuing the plan, and further isolating him worked directly against that.

    Redcloak also repeatedly demonstrates a better understanding of Xykon than Right-Eye and if he had told his brother sooner it would’ve pre-empted the excuses about what Xykon would do and he could’ve taken advantage of Redcloak’s better understanding of Xykon to improve his plan.

    Basically I think strategically things would’ve worked out better if he’d either brought Redcloak in on things earlier or not told him about it at all and just done it.
    You need to close your spoiler tags.
    Right-Eye did not isolate himself from Redcloak, Red isolated himself from the other goblins, that is why he calls him Xykon's pet goblin.

    "Now this is a surprise. Xykon's pet goblin is slumming down here with the rest of us."
    Last edited by Fyraltari; 2019-04-03 at 07:07 PM.
    "Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced."
    Gehm's corollary to Clarke's Third Law



    Forum Wisdom

  7. - Top - End - #67
    Orc in the Playground
     
    WolfInSheepsClothing

    Join Date
    Dec 2018

    Default Re: What does the Crimson Mantle’s aging block do?

    My point with both of those things is that he overlooked things he could’ve done to get his brother to do what he wanted, and he might not have if he understood him better.

  8. - Top - End - #68
    Troll in the Playground
     
    martianmister's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Turkey
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: What does the Crimson Mantle’s aging block do?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Wouldn't that equally apply to Xykon, and say that he's also being stuck in teenager mode, despite getting to what looks like venerable age? If anything, that should go to show that such a mentality is completely decoupled from aging.
    In hindsight, "stuck in teenager mode" describes Xykon better than Redcloak.
    Spoiler
    Show

  9. - Top - End - #69
    Bugbear in the Playground
    Join Date
    Apr 2018

    Default Re: What does the Crimson Mantle’s aging block do?

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalFailure View Post
    My point with both of those things is that he overlooked things he could’ve done to get his brother to do what he wanted, and he might not have if he understood him better.
    What things did Right-Eye overlook that could have changed Redcloak? That's a very big claim that very much flies in the face of the entire point of the story, so I'm going to need some specifics.

  10. - Top - End - #70
    Orc in the Playground
     
    WolfInSheepsClothing

    Join Date
    Dec 2018

    Default Re: What does the Crimson Mantle’s aging block do?

    I was more arguing that I think he could probably have manipulated Redcloak into it based on him being able to convince him to give it up and stay before Xykon showed back up. Just speculation.

  11. - Top - End - #71
    Colossus in the Playground
     
    Kish's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2004

    Default Re: What does the Crimson Mantle’s aging block do?

    Spoiler: Start of Darkness
    Show
    I think if he had understood his brother better--or, more properly, had understood before he got suddenly Disintegrated that his brother was dead and Redcloak, Xykon's lackey, was the entity he needed to worry about now--he would either have conducted his attack on Xykon without giving Redcloak warning, or have struck at Redcloak first.
    Spoiler
    Show
    "The really unforgivable acts are committed by calm men in beautiful green silk rooms, who deal death wholesale, by the shipload, without lust, or anger, or desire, or any redeeming emotion to excuse them but cold fear of some pretended future. But the crimes they hope to prevent in the future are imaginary. The ones they commit in the present--they are real." --Aral Vorkosigan

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    This, in a nutshell.
    Yes, exactly.

  12. - Top - End - #72
    Orc in the Playground
     
    WolfInSheepsClothing

    Join Date
    Dec 2018

    Default Re: What does the Crimson Mantle’s aging block do?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kish View Post
    Spoiler: Start of Darkness
    Show
    I think if he had understood his brother better--or, more properly, had understood before he got suddenly Disintegrated that his brother was dead and Redcloak, Xykon's lackey, was the entity he needed to worry about now--he would either have conducted his attack on Xykon without giving Redcloak warning, or have struck at Redcloak first.
    Yeah I agree with that, I think that would have been his best bet.

    Spoiler
    Show
    I'm not trying to defend Redcloak's actions in some way by saying I think it would've been possible for Right-Eye to manipulate him into going along with what he wants, if that's how people are interpreting it. I just think that based on Right-Eye eventually convincing him to settle down in his village he likely could've also gotten him to go along with what he wanted if he managed to press his brother's buttons in just the right way. Then again, maybe at that point they were too close to getting a gate for it to be a possibility. After killing Right-Eye I think there's no way Redcloak will give up trying to execute the plan obviously.

    I think this is mostly just an example of how being willing to sacrifice or not enjoying being evil doesn't actually make someone less evil. Redcloak is normal compared to villains like Xykon in that he is not a sadist for whom murder is a fun hobby, he really did love his family, and if he wasn't bearer of the mantle it's not clear that he would be getting up to much evil. The fact that he doesn't enjoy doing evil things like murdering his brother and does them to fulfill his responsibilities as high priest and complete what he has taken on as his god-given purpose in life rather than from selfishness doesn't make those things less evil, it just makes his it even more of a senseless waste than it already was.

  13. - Top - End - #73
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    OldWizardGuy

    Join Date
    May 2013

    Default Re: What does the Crimson Mantle’s aging block do?

    Redcloak can still gain experience and perspective, and have character growth. He can still mature in that sense. But I like the idea that in purely physiological terms, his brain is still a teenage brain and his body is still a teenage body. He has a grown man's experience and wisdom, but a young man's impetuousness and resentment. There is no difference between brain and body (yes, OK, souls exist in OotS, but most non-undead humans still run on wetware: see e.g. Redcloak pointing out that Paladins losing the ability to fear is something unnatural and in violation of biological instinct, Elan's brain damage, and if you really insist on direct in-comic proof, this comic has Qarr directly referencing the influence on behaviour of 100%-mundane good-old-fashioned chemical hormones on behaviour).

    Redcloak has the hormone profile of a much younger, angrier man.
    Last edited by JBiddles; 2019-04-06 at 05:58 PM.

  14. - Top - End - #74
    Orc in the Playground
     
    WolfInSheepsClothing

    Join Date
    Dec 2018

    Default Re: What does the Crimson Mantle’s aging block do?

    Quote Originally Posted by JBiddles View Post
    Redcloak can still gain experience and perspective, and have character growth. He can still mature in that sense. But I like the idea that in purely physiological terms, his brain is still a teenage brain and his body is still a teenage body. He has a grown man's experience and wisdom, but a young man's impetuousness and resentment. There is no difference between brain and body (yes, OK, souls exist in OotS, but most non-undead humans still run on wetware: see e.g. Redcloak pointing out that Paladins losing the ability to fear is something unnatural and in violation of biological instinct, Elan's brain damage, and if you really insist on direct in-comic proof, this comic has Qarr directly referencing the influence on behaviour of 100%-mundane good-old-fashioned chemical hormones on behaviour).

    Redcloak has the hormone profile of a much younger, angrier man.
    That’s a good point, I had forgotten about those mentions.

    Overall I think I find this line of thinking more persuasive. It’s not like teenagers can’t learn and don’t learn from experience. He can change and grow in some ways due to experience (and does do that in the story). There are also some things that are due to physically growing older that don’t change, and when it comes to experience as his brother pointed out he lacks the experience of growing older and facing mortality and so doesn’t gain the perspective that brings.

    With the point about being younger and angrier... once again teenager must be the absolute worst age to be stuck at.

  15. - Top - End - #75
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    DrowGirl

    Join Date
    Jan 2009

    Default Re: What does the Crimson Mantle’s aging block do?

    Quote Originally Posted by tomandtish View Post
    I was looking for clarification in this in 3.5, but can't find it.

    But in earlier versions of the game they distinguished between physical age and actual age. So a change on one didn't automatically affect the other.

    EX: Monk's timeless body - The monk's physical stats would become immune to age changes at the point the ability was required. But they'd still get the mental bonuses.

    EX: A magical attack ages a character two age categories instantly. They suffer the physical penalties but don't get the mental bonuses.

    I assume it works the same way in later versions.
    The phane does the latter, and that's in 3.5 (well, 3.0, but it was updated). And Timeless Body's still around in 3.5 in the core books.

    However, Timeless Body isn't truly immortality, because it doesn't extend lifespan. The things that do extend lifespan do tend to halt the plusses as well as the minuses (the type example being undead).

    Quote Originally Posted by Kish View Post
    Spoiler: Start of Darkness
    Show
    I think if he had understood his brother better--or, more properly, had understood before he got suddenly Disintegrated that his brother was dead and Redcloak, Xykon's lackey, was the entity he needed to worry about now--he would either have conducted his attack on Xykon without giving Redcloak warning, or have struck at Redcloak first.
    I'm pretty sure he'd have acted differently if he had another high-level arcane spellcaster available. For all Right-Eye's (and Xykon's) bluster, Xykon never truly managed to break Redcloak.
    Spoiler
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by Optimystik View Post
    Your Tainted Scholar builds look fun, but I'm lactose intolerant
    Quote Originally Posted by Optimystik View Post
    You're just trying to get more people into your sig, aren't you
    Quote Originally Posted by ShneekeyTheLost View Post
    Seeing TO by Magic9Mushroom is like seeing a movie with Joss Wheaton as director... you know that it's worth watching, even if you do want to strangle the bastard by the time you're done with it.

  16. - Top - End - #76
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    hroţila's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: What does the Crimson Mantle’s aging block do?

    Quote Originally Posted by magic9mushroom View Post
    I'm pretty sure he'd have acted differently if he had another high-level arcane spellcaster available. For all Right-Eye's (and Xykon's) bluster, Xykon never truly managed to break Redcloak.
    That's not completely true. If Redcloak was honestly looking for a chance to ditch Xykon, he could have tried to win Tsukiko over instead of antagonizing her from the get go (it wouldn't have worked because Tsukiko had, let's say, a special interest in Xykon, but nevertheless), for example. He also has a number of browncloaks in Azure City he could be mentoring to help them reach whatever the required level is.
    ungelic is us

  17. - Top - End - #77
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Fyraltari's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    France
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: What does the Crimson Mantle’s aging block do?

    Aren’t Browncloaks priests of the Dark One ?

    Edit: my impression was that the church’s hierarchy went : white < brown < blue < red.

    If that’s the case it’s even possible that the Dark One didn’t create the Crimson Mantle but imbued the uniform of his then-current high priest with magical properties.
    Last edited by Fyraltari; 2019-04-12 at 03:41 AM.

  18. - Top - End - #78
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    B. Dandelion's Avatar

    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Forest Grove, Oregon
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: What does the Crimson Mantle’s aging block do?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    Aren’t Browncloaks priests of the Dark One ?

    Edit: my impression was that the church’s hierarchy went : white < brown < blue < red.

    If that’s the case it’s even possible that the Dark One didn’t create the Crimson Mantle but imbued the uniform of his then-current high priest with magical properties.
    Browncloaks like this one appear to be arcane casters, not clerics. Haley calls him a wizard and Dancing Lights is not a cleric spell. Yeah, even though they look identical to clerics and the different color cloak thing indicating different ranks is established. White's on the bottom and red's at the top, so it makes sense that blue (most common cloak worn by hobgoblin clerics) is somewhere in the middle. But I think brown is its own thing. Maybe the wizards even have their own cloak color-ranking thing going on separate from the clerics.
    Last edited by B. Dandelion; 2019-04-12 at 04:47 AM.

  19. - Top - End - #79
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    SwashbucklerGuy

    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Valencia, Spain
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: What does the Crimson Mantle’s aging block do?

    Regarding the question presented by the OP, I think that the problem is not that the Crimson Mantle by itself makes changes on the Bearer's mind. The problem, pointed by Right-Eye, was how stopping the aging process affects the Character.

    In most fantasy works there are comments on how individuals belonging to races with more life expectancy than humans (mostly, Elves) have their behaviour affected by this fact. Most of those comments are intended to explain why they mature slower, and so a 20-years-old Elf is still a child while a 20-years-old human is an adult.

    Even in our own reality, there are certain debates about how the increased life expectancy of humans has an effect on the "pace" of our lives, waiting more years to settle and all that.

    General speaking, the philosophical position tends to be "the slower you age, the slower you mature". And, in Redcloak's case, he is totally removed from aging, meaning he is put under stasis on his maturity, blocked at the level of maturity of the age at which he donned the Mantle, which was the goblin equivalent to teenager.

    So the question raised by the OP is more related to those philosophical questions about the relationship between life expectancy and maturity, rather than to actual "mind-related magic effects" of the Mantle.
    Last edited by The Pilgrim; 2019-04-12 at 10:12 AM.

  20. - Top - End - #80
    Colossus in the Playground
     
    Kish's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2004

    Default Re: What does the Crimson Mantle’s aging block do?

    Quote Originally Posted by magic9mushroom View Post
    For all Right-Eye's (and Xykon's) bluster, Xykon never truly managed to break Redcloak.
    You say "For all Right-Eye's (and Xykon's) bluster, Xykon never truly managed to break Redcloak." and I hear, "The theme of Start of Darkness was lost on me." Let's call the whole thing off.
    Spoiler
    Show
    "The really unforgivable acts are committed by calm men in beautiful green silk rooms, who deal death wholesale, by the shipload, without lust, or anger, or desire, or any redeeming emotion to excuse them but cold fear of some pretended future. But the crimes they hope to prevent in the future are imaginary. The ones they commit in the present--they are real." --Aral Vorkosigan

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    This, in a nutshell.
    Yes, exactly.

  21. - Top - End - #81
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Jasdoif's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Oregon, USA

    Default Re: What does the Crimson Mantle’s aging block do?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kish View Post
    You say "For all Right-Eye's (and Xykon's) bluster, Xykon never truly managed to break Redcloak." and I hear, "The theme of Start of Darkness was lost on me." Let's call the whole thing off.
    Yeah....I mean, I could buy that Redcloak was already broken by that point, but that would just mean Xykon broke him even further (along the same fracture lines, even).

  22. - Top - End - #82
    Bugbear in the Playground
    Join Date
    Apr 2018

    Default Re: What does the Crimson Mantle’s aging block do?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kish View Post
    You say "For all Right-Eye's (and Xykon's) bluster, Xykon never truly managed to break Redcloak." and I hear, "The theme of Start of Darkness was lost on me." Let's call the whole thing off.
    I imagine they're counting Redcloak still planning to betray Xykon as not breaking him. Fair enough, though I'd point out that Redcloak had to work to get back to that point, and even now he's still pretty clearly (to me) deluding himself about what his actual situation and the power dynamic truly is.
    I'd just like to point out that saying that something unsupported is the case unless someone else can prove that it is not is an utter failure of logic. - Kish

  23. - Top - End - #83
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    BlueKnightGuy

    Join Date
    Nov 2015

    Default Re: What does the Crimson Mantle’s aging block do?

    I think that what Right Eye meant was that, due to never aging, Redcloack was never forced to face the prospect of his own mortality, to think of what it was he would be leaving behind, to realise that it is impossible to get the perfect ending and that he should just settle to doing his best in the brief time he has alive (compared to an soul's actual life span, at least). By never aging, Redcloack believes that he has all the time needed to achieve anything he needs to, no matter how impossible it may seem, which is actually a sentiment often held by teenagers before the realities of adult life hit them in the face like a ton of bricks.

  24. - Top - End - #84
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Peelee's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Birmingham, AL
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: What does the Crimson Mantle’s aging block do?

    Quote Originally Posted by dude123nice View Post
    I think that what Right Eye meant was that, due to never aging, Redcloack was never forced to face the prospect of his own mortality, to think of what it was he would be leaving behind, to realise that it is impossible to get the perfect ending and that he should just settle to doing his best in the brief time he has alive (compared to an soul's actual life span, at least). By never aging, Redcloack believes that he has all the time needed to achieve anything he needs to, no matter how impossible it may seem, which is actually a sentiment often held by teenagers before the realities of adult life hit them in the face like a ton of bricks.
    I like that reading. And not only because of my brick-smashed face.
    Cuthalion's avatars rock. Like this very fine dragon he made me.

  25. - Top - End - #85
    Orc in the Playground
     
    WolfInSheepsClothing

    Join Date
    Dec 2018

    Default Re: What does the Crimson Mantle’s aging block do?

    ^ That makes sense to me.

    As for the whether Redcloak is broken question, what do you qualify as being broken? I think what happened between him and his brother and Xykon certainly messed him up pretty badly and changed him. He seems to still be functional and determined to follow his own goals.

  26. - Top - End - #86
    Orc in the Playground
     
    GreataxeFighterGirl

    Join Date
    Jan 2019
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: What does the Crimson Mantle’s aging block do?

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalFailure View Post
    ^ That makes sense to me.

    As for the whether Redcloak is broken question, what do you qualify as being broken? I think what happened between him and his brother and Xykon certainly messed him up pretty badly and changed him. He seems to still be functional and determined to follow his own goals.
    He recuperated.

    There's a bit of disjunction between SOD and Redcloak's earlier characterization up to post-Azure City, but I think being in control of thousands of hobgoblins over an official nation-state broadened his perspective considerably. Losing the phylactery makes Xykon open up old wounds -- but I'm guessing that establishing his brother's dream (of a city in peacetime) invoked some sort of change. I mean, look how he crushes the Resistance and straight-up lies (mistruths) to Xykon's skull. That's not the personality of a goblin still stuck in the sunk-cost fallacy of working with X (he possibly still might be stuck in the Plan).

    what the f did i just type

  27. - Top - End - #87
    Orc in the Playground
     
    WolfInSheepsClothing

    Join Date
    Dec 2018

    Default Re: What does the Crimson Mantle’s aging block do?

    I think he's still stuck in the sunk cost fallacy, and he's keeping it together by telling himself "it'll all be worth it."

    Overall he seems to be pretty resilient, but he is also using a massive amount of denial and rationalization to cope with the situation.

  28. - Top - End - #88
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Fyraltari's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    France
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: What does the Crimson Mantle’s aging block do?

    Quote Originally Posted by understatement View Post
    He recuperated.

    There's a bit of disjunction between SOD and Redcloak's earlier characterization up to post-Azure City, but I think being in control of thousands of hobgoblins over an official nation-state broadened his perspective considerably. Losing the phylactery makes Xykon open up old wounds -- but I'm guessing that establishing his brother's dream (of a city in peacetime) invoked some sort of change. I mean, look how he crushes the Resistance and straight-up lies (mistruths) to Xykon's skull. That's not the personality of a goblin still stuck in the sunk-cost fallacy of working with X (he possibly still might be stuck in the Plan).

    what the f did i just type
    He's sunk cost fallacy has never been to treat Xykon as a partner, he was deceiving him from day one. is problem is that bruhes aside the countless murder of gobs perpetrated by the lich and that he has lost control of their association. Stealing the phylactery is at best limited damage control.
    "Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced."
    Gehm's corollary to Clarke's Third Law



    Forum Wisdom

  29. - Top - End - #89
    Colossus in the Playground
     
    Kish's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2004

    Default Re: What does the Crimson Mantle’s aging block do?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    He's sunk cost fallacy has never been to treat Xykon as a partner, he was deceiving him from day one. is problem is that bruhes aside the countless murder of gobs perpetrated by the lich and that he has lost control of their association. Stealing the phylactery is at best limited damage control.
    Indeed. What I believe magic9mushroom and others who have advanced the idea that Redcloak isn't Xykon's slave miss, is that Redcloak asserting "I am in control of Xykon!" even as Xykon merrily slaughters his way through the goblin people Redcloak claims to be acting on the behalf of, isn't a statement of strength or independence, but one of weakness and delusion, and an attitude that Redcloak has had ever since he became Redcloak, with the exception of
    Spoiler: Start of Darkness
    Show
    the one scene where Xykon ripped off the blindfold, and then promised he would never do so again
    .
    Spoiler
    Show
    "The really unforgivable acts are committed by calm men in beautiful green silk rooms, who deal death wholesale, by the shipload, without lust, or anger, or desire, or any redeeming emotion to excuse them but cold fear of some pretended future. But the crimes they hope to prevent in the future are imaginary. The ones they commit in the present--they are real." --Aral Vorkosigan

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    This, in a nutshell.
    Yes, exactly.

  30. - Top - End - #90
    Troll in the Playground
     
    martianmister's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Turkey
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: What does the Crimson Mantle’s aging block do?

    Both Redcloak and Xykon claims to be masters of each other.
    Both can be wrong or right.
    In the end of the day, they both follow the Dark One's plan.
    Redcloak knows that, Xykon do not.
    In the end of the day, Xykon is the bigger fool.
    Spoiler
    Show

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •