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  1. - Top - End - #571
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 23: The Evil League of EVIL

    I see Plague of Murlocs being useful particularly against heavily buffed enemy minions, or magnetized mechs. I'm thinking mech hunter or buff paladin, stuff like that. You don't end up with a lot of enemies on the board (usually), and they lose their buffs and their synergies. I see it more as a kind of silence, if you will.

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    Default Re: Hearthstone 23: The Evil League of EVIL

    Quote Originally Posted by Zevox View Post
    Sahlet's Pride: Paladin 3 mana 3/1. Deathrattle: draw two one-health minions from your deck.
    There's some interesting stuff this can draw. Like Twilight Drake and Faceless Rager, neither of which really end up as 1 health minions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Resileaf View Post
    I see Plague of Murlocs being useful particularly against heavily buffed enemy minions, or magnetized mechs. I'm thinking mech hunter or buff paladin, stuff like that. You don't end up with a lot of enemies on the board (usually), and they lose their buffs and their synergies. I see it more as a kind of silence, if you will.
    True, those are definitely particular matchups where it could be quite strong, just because those decks like to build a couple of extremely dangerous minions via magnetic cards.

    Quote Originally Posted by AmberVael View Post
    There's some interesting stuff this can draw. Like Twilight Drake and Faceless Rager, neither of which really end up as 1 health minions.
    Hm, very good point actually, that hadn't occurred to me. Just those two and Sahlet's Pride could be a package of sorts - drop Sahlet's Pride on 3, the opponent kills it or you trade it into something, and suddenly you have a bigger hand a Twilight Drake to drop on four. Not bad at all. I might have to try that in my Dragon Paladin.

    Edit: running a quick search, a few other potentially interesting cards it can pull for non-aggro decks: Giggling Inventor, Replicating Menace, Ironbeak Owl, Voodoo Doll. Not sure if any of those make it in a Paladin deck - Inventors really only seem to work in Shaman now, Paladin doesn't have easy ways to activate Voodoo Doll, and Replicating Menace is a bit questionable outside of specific mech decks - but things to keep in mind.
    Last edited by Zevox; 2019-07-15 at 07:55 PM.
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  4. - Top - End - #574
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 23: The Evil League of EVIL

    Quote Originally Posted by Zevox View Post
    I see another card has been added to the gallery:

    Plague of Murlocs: Shaman 3 mana spell. Transform all minions into random Murlocs.
    - Huh, now that's a tough one to call. Trying to think it through, there's two situations where this effect seems good: first, if you have a board that's mostly or entirely tokens, like totems and Lackeys, and the opponent has either nothing or just one or two big things. Then on average your board is getting upgraded and theirs is getting downgraded. Second, it could be used as a quasi-Equality, to set up a board wipe, since most Murlocs don't have a lot of health, and Warleader no longer buffs health. That might be a bit tricky though, since your options there are Lightning Storm (might be rolling 50/50s against some Murlocs, especially Warleader, which is important to kill), Earthquake (which is overkill and a 10 mana combo), or Hagatha's Scheme (probably the most practical of the bunch, but still needs to have been in your hand for a couple of turns, and it's an 8 mana combo - and the combo becomes unnecessary if it's been in your hand long enough to wipe the board anyway). So the latter seems dicey, but the former might be practical for some kind of aggro or midrange Shaman deck. Not sure if an actual Murloc deck wants this or not, though, seems like a weird one for that, since they're already playing Murlocs. One limitation compared to other transform effects though is that it won't get you lethal past taunt unless you luck out and pull a Bluegill Warrior when they're low enough for it to kill though, since transformed minions can't attack. I don't know, hard to say how good this spell is at this point.
    Honestly think that pairing this with Lighting Storm is the most practical, since few Murlocs have 3+ health, and Warleader is only as scary as the number of Murlocs that survive. In fact, I'd put Plague of Murlocs in Murloc Shaman BECAUSE I'm already playing Murlocs: random Scargils, Underbelly Anglers, and Tastyfins aren't particularly powerful if you're not already running Murlocs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Resileaf View Post
    I see Plague of Murlocs being useful particularly against heavily buffed enemy minions, or magnetized mechs. I'm thinking mech hunter or buff paladin, stuff like that. You don't end up with a lot of enemies on the board (usually), and they lose their buffs and their synergies. I see it more as a kind of silence, if you will.
    It's also effective against Conjuror's Calling Mage, effectively being a Mass Hex against Giants. I'd hesitate against Mech Hunter though, since they could go wide with Goblin Bombs and Micro Bots, and trying to avoid getting Goblin Bombed to death could backfire spectacularly if you do give them a board full of Warleaders instead.
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  5. - Top - End - #575
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 23: The Evil League of EVIL

    Quote Originally Posted by Geno9999 View Post
    It's also effective against Conjuror's Calling Mage, effectively being a Mass Hex against Giants. I'd hesitate against Mech Hunter though, since they could go wide with Goblin Bombs and Micro Bots, and trying to avoid getting Goblin Bombed to death could backfire spectacularly if you do give them a board full of Warleaders instead.
    Well technically the micro bots only appear if you've already killed his magnetized minions, so I was more thinking of doing the plague first. XD

    True for the goblin bombs, though.

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    Default Re: Hearthstone 23: The Evil League of EVIL

    Against Mech Hunter you'd probably use it more proactively instead of waiting for them to have a wide board. Hit a couple of minions with it while the board is relatively even to preemptively remove Magnetize targets instead of holding it until they have a large board like you would for Mage.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Geno9999 View Post
    Honestly think that pairing this with Lighting Storm is the most practical, since few Murlocs have 3+ health, and Warleader is only as scary as the number of Murlocs that survive. In fact, I'd put Plague of Murlocs in Murloc Shaman BECAUSE I'm already playing Murlocs: random Scargils, Underbelly Anglers, and Tastyfins aren't particularly powerful if you're not already running Murlocs.
    Hm, maybe. Looking at the exact pool of Murlocs (obviously not counting any new ones we don't know about yet), there's not that many - only thirteen total. However, nearly a quarter (4) have more than 2 health: Underbelly Angler, Warleader, Coldlight Seer, and Scargill. So against any wide board, you've got good odds of turning something into at least one of those, and a low roll could look rather bad for Storm, if they get a Warleader and a Scargill for instance. So while that could often be good, there's a definite risk associated with it.
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  8. - Top - End - #578
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 23: The Evil League of EVIL

    Quote Originally Posted by Zevox View Post
    Hm, maybe. Looking at the exact pool of Murlocs (obviously not counting any new ones we don't know about yet), there's not that many - only thirteen total. However, nearly a quarter (4) have more than 2 health: Underbelly Angler, Warleader, Coldlight Seer, and Scargill. So against any wide board, you've got good odds of turning something into at least one of those, and a low roll could look rather bad for Storm, if they get a Warleader and a Scargill for instance. So while that could often be good, there's a definite risk associated with it.
    From the Plague of Murlocs reveal video, we did get a sneak preview of the new Sir Finley Mrrgglton, and will be a 2/3, so that does at least bump up the number of 3+ health Murlocs to 5 out of 14.

    I do agree that there is a risk with Plague of Murlocs, but overall I do think it's a powerful tech card in the right matches, I just probably end up running one copy anyway.
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  9. - Top - End - #579
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    Lazy brawl is lazy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Red Fel, on quest rewards View Post
    "Is a stack of ten pancakes too many pancakes to give to the party, even if most of them fell on the floor and one or two were stepped on? I wanted to give my party pancakes as a reward but I'm unsure if it's too much. The pancakes are also laced with blowfish poison so the party would have to get an antitoxin before they could eat the ones which weren't pulverized by shoes."

    I don't think anyone would want those pancakes even if you paid them to eat them.

  10. - Top - End - #580
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 23: The Evil League of EVIL

    Quote Originally Posted by The Glyphstone View Post
    Lazy brawl is lazy.
    Eh, they announced this would be the next Brawl last week, when we got the details about the Fire FestEVIL.

    In other news, new card, and our first Warrior card of the expansion:

    Armagedillo: Warrior 6 mana 4/7 Beast. Taunt. At the end of your turn, give all Taunt minions in your hand +2/+2.
    - They're doing the Taunt Warrior theme again, after the old Quest rotated out? Eh. Maybe the new quest will be taunt-themed as well and strong enough to justify it, but barring that, I think a healthy dose of skepticism about the effectiveness of any such cards is warranted, since it was literally only the old Quest that made that archetype ever come together. And hand-buffing doesn't have a great track record either. So yeah, one our less impressive cards to date I think, and sadly it's the Warrior non-quest legendary for the set. Not that Warrior needs help I guess, but still, very disappointing for a legendary. This could easily be an epic or rare.
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  11. - Top - End - #581
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 23: The Evil League of EVIL

    The explorers as legendary minions have been revealed!

    Reno the Relicologist - Legendary Mage Minion; 6 mana 4/6; Battlecry: If your deck has no duplicates, deal 10 damage randomly split among all enemy minions.
    Dinotamer Brann - Legendary Hunter Minion; 7 mana 2/4; Battlecry: If your deck has no duplicates, summon King Krush. (for recap, 8/8 Beast with Charge)
    Elise the Enlightened - Legendary Druid Minion; 5 mana 5/5; Battlecry: If your deck has no duplicates, duplicate your hand.
    Sir Finley of the Sands - Legendary Paladin Minion; 2 mana 2/3 Murloc; Battlecry: If your deck has no duplicates, discover an upgraded Hero Power.

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    Reno seems somewhat eh, 10 random damage seems a little underwhelming compared to the myriad board clears mages have at their disposal. I suppose that it's more useful against a single high-health minion.
    Brann looks extremely good. It's summon King Krush two turns early (good thing it's not on shaman's double battlecry quest reward).
    Elise can probably be used to set up combos, or just fill up your hand.
    Finley needs to be drawn very early, and if he is, he's going to be pretty damn good.

  12. - Top - End - #582
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 23: The Evil League of EVIL

    Quote Originally Posted by Resileaf View Post
    The explorers as legendary minions have been revealed!

    Reno the Relicologist - Legendary Mage Minion; 6 mana 4/6; Battlecry: If your deck has no duplicates, deal 10 damage randomly split among all enemy minions.
    Dinotamer Brann - Legendary Hunter Minion; 7 mana 2/4; Battlecry: If your deck has no duplicates, summon King Krush. (for recap, 8/8 Beast with Charge)
    Elise the Enlightened - Legendary Druid Minion; 5 mana 5/5; Battlecry: If your deck has no duplicates, duplicate your hand.
    Sir Finley of the Sands - Legendary Paladin Minion; 2 mana 2/3 Murloc; Battlecry: If your deck has no duplicates, discover an upgraded Hero Power.

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    Reno seems somewhat eh, 10 random damage seems a little underwhelming compared to the myriad board clears mages have at their disposal. I suppose that it's more useful against a single high-health minion.
    Brann looks extremely good. It's summon King Krush two turns early (good thing it's not on shaman's double battlecry quest reward).
    Elise can probably be used to set up combos, or just fill up your hand.
    Finley needs to be drawn very early, and if he is, he's going to be pretty damn good.
    Well now. I have to say, I like having most of them be callbacks of a sort to their former incarnations. Reno obviously is same mana cost, stats, and activation requirement; Finley discovers a new hero power; Elise gives you cards (which is more in line with her second version from Un'goro, but eh); and Brann... has a battlecry, I guess. Well, he makes a great combo with his original version over in wild, let's go with that.

    Anyway, more specific thoughts on balance... there's some disappointment.
    - Reno: So much weaker than the original it hurts. I'm not sure if it's great or terrible that he only hits minions - makes it so that he's solid for board clearing, but bad for killing the enemy. But Mage already has plenty of good board clear spells, and he's still understatted as much as his original version. Besides which, it's very hard to see a modern Reno Mage competing with Cyclone/Conjurer's Mage, at least given the cards we've seen so far.
    - Brann: Great effect, very reminiscent of Jan'ali. The question is, is it worth making a Reno (Highlander?) Hunter deck just to get it? That I'm not so sure about. It still looks weaker to me than original Reno, or Kazakus, or pre-nerf Raza, and those three were the cards that justified such decks in the past. In Wild where you can run the old Brann with it to double the battlecry, plus have the wider array of strong cards to pick from, it's almost certainly good enough, but in standard, I'm not so confident.
    - Elise: Nice effect, particularly for a deck hampered by lack of duplicates, but I have to ask the same question as Brann: is this worth making a Highlander Druid to get? It's a maximum of 5 extra cards, which are copies of ones that were already in your deck. That's nice value, but probably not game-winning value, unless there's some specific combo you can pull with it - but any combo you could pull with it would necessarily be one you could do by just running two copies of those cards in the first place.
    - Sir Finley: This is probably the best looking of these to me. Nabbing an upgraded hero power on turn 2 is almost Baku levels of power, though it does depend on what you get. Paladin and Warrior are traditionally the two best, but Tank Up probably becomes much worse in Paladin, which doesn't have the strong control cards of Warrior. And from there it becomes a lot more questionable - Odd Rogue was strong, but would that hero power be as strong in Paladin? Odd Mage worked, but in no small part thanks to Jan'ali, which Paladin doesn't have. And the others never really saw use with either Baku or Justicar Trueheart (okay, there was the occasional Priest that ran Justicar back in the day, but very rarely). So I do think it's an open question whether even this effect is worth making a Highlander deck - especially since Paladin is in such bad shape that making a Highlander deck in general might be hard for them.

    So, yeah, consistent theme there. Maybe we'll get more cards that encourage Highlander decks besides just these four, but if it's just them, I am skeptical that any of them will actually make such a deck a serious part of the meta. Finley or Brann might have a shot at it, if I'm underestimating them a bit (and if Paladin gets some particularly good new cards, because they need them) - I certainly don't think Elise or Reno will.
    Last edited by Zevox; 2019-07-18 at 04:41 PM.
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  13. - Top - End - #583
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    Reno: absolutely absurd tempo play. 4.5 mana's worth of stats AND a board clear. It's like the AoE version of Vilespine. Surprised this isn't in Rogue, honestly, because it's a very Rogue feeling. Oh wait, that's right. Board clears "go against Rogue's class identity", womp womp. I don't know what Highlander Mage looks like, or really any Highlander deck now that OG Reno isn't in rotation. Reno decks focused on utilizing his massive healing to support a control playstyle with a lot of tech cards as one-offs. Reno here feels like a strong tempo play for a midrange deck. Good but not broken enough.

    Brann: interesting, great stats, although Hunter also doesn't have good ways to replay this. I doubt it will be played, simply because Dire Frenzy exists, and it's just not good enough/doesn't enable a different enough archetype to justify not running Dire Frenzy.

    Elise: someone pointed out that you can duplicate Chef Nomi + Floop, and you don't even need to run a Highlander deck, just draw all your cards (or enough of them). Congrats, you now have four Chef Nomis in Druid, which has Miracle cycling with Gadgetzan. That's busted enough to be meta.

    Sir Finley: weird class for this effect, especially given how Paladin is built around using its hero power for tokens. There's probably enough good hero powers for Control, though. 2-damage Fireblast, 4 Armor, 4 Healing, 2 Armor plus 2 Attack, a 2/2 weapon, those are all pretty good for sustain or for controlling the board. Double tokens is better Paladin. So if there's a strong Paladin combo out there....

    The biggest problem, as Kibler pointed out on Twitter, is that most of these get deactivated by Bomb Warrior, inherently.
    Last edited by CarpeGuitarrem; 2019-07-18 at 06:10 PM.
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 23: The Evil League of EVIL

    Bomb Warrior futzes with a lot of potentially interesting decks. I had a neato Big Paladin deck early on that used Prismatic Lens and Duel to solid effect...unless I was facing Bomb warrior, in which case it went completely into the trash.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CarpeGuitarrem View Post
    The biggest problem, as Kibler pointed out on Twitter, is that most of these get deactivated by Bomb Warrior, inherently.
    Ooh, yeah, that's true. That probably just kills all four from having any potential meta presence outright, unless the meta that comes about makes Control Warrior so much better than Bomb Warrior that the latter all but drops off the map. Which seems unlikely, both versions are solid enough that they're likely to stick around, even if they get no new help.
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  16. - Top - End - #586
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 23: The Evil League of EVIL

    Quote Originally Posted by Zevox View Post
    Ooh, yeah, that's true. That probably just kills all four from having any potential meta presence outright, unless the meta that comes about makes Control Warrior so much better than Bomb Warrior that the latter all but drops off the map. Which seems unlikely, both versions are solid enough that they're likely to stick around, even if they get no new help.
    Finley's the only one that maybe has a chance, simply because his best-case scenario is coming down on 2 before Warrior spends turns 3 and 4 getting the bomb train rolling. Paladin being in the state that it is means that the deck is probably going to be too inconsistent to beat Bomb Warrior anyway, though.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarpeGuitarrem View Post
    Reno: absolutely absurd tempo play. 4.5 mana's worth of stats AND a board clear. It's like the AoE version of Vilespine. Surprised this isn't in Rogue, honestly, because it's a very Rogue feeling. Oh wait, that's right. Board clears "go against Rogue's class identity", womp womp. I don't know what Highlander Mage looks like, or really any Highlander deck now that OG Reno isn't in rotation. Reno decks focused on utilizing his massive healing to support a control playstyle with a lot of tech cards as one-offs. Reno here feels like a strong tempo play for a midrange deck. Good but not broken enough.
    The comparison I'm immediately drawn to is Meteorologist, which has a similar effect. Meteorologist typically deals between 7-9 damage, and can also go face. So Reno is a 4/6 instead of a 3/3, typically deal a couple extra damage, and can't hit face (which isn't always a good thing). Is that worth going Highlander? I don't think so - you'd be better off not going Highlander and running two Meteorologists.

    I'm not all that impressed with any of them, even before the Bomb Warrior thing. You need a crazy powerful effect to justify running such a card, and none of these comes close.

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    Default Re: Hearthstone 23: The Evil League of EVIL

    I think Druid probably has the best chance, since they have not one, but two absurd Twinspells that take the sting out of only having one of each copy. Plus that downside is negated if you have both in hand when you play Elise.

    I could potentially see a weird hybrid of Token and Lucentbark Druids, depending on a little more support for the latter heal-based archetype in this expansion.

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    Default Re: Hearthstone 23: The Evil League of EVIL

    What are the odds we'll get a neutral 'destroy duplicates in your deck' card of some kind, in the vein of Skulking Geist or Hemet Nesingwary? Would be both an enabler for the new Legendaries and a tech counter for Bomb decks.
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    I don't think anyone would want those pancakes even if you paid them to eat them.

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    Default Re: Hearthstone 23: The Evil League of EVIL

    New card reveal from Firebat, who sounds so very stoked.

    Hidden Oasis (6)
    Druid Spell
    Choose One - Summon a 6/6 Ancient with Taunt, or restore 12 health.

    Like Firebat points out, this is the sort of card that's necessary for Druid to stabilize after the tempo loss of the Quest, which requires you to float mana on turns 2/3/4/5. It does curve out nicely, but I don't know that Choose One cards are powerful enough to be a strong payoff even after you stabilize. Like, this card basically just stops you from losing after you Quest up. We'll have to see about the rest...
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 23: The Evil League of EVIL

    @CarpeGuitarrem:
    Firebat's editor is the best, though. Love his videos!

    Also, I think it's better to wait until the set is revealed in it's entirety before passing a final judgement at the new highlander cards. And don't forget, cards like these tend to get better by the end of the year, after the final expansion, because there'll be more options available, so even if they end up not that enticing initially, somewhere between the next expansion and the next rotation this may change (e.g. what happened to Priest between KotFT and Kobolds and Catacombs).
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 23: The Evil League of EVIL

    Quote Originally Posted by CarpeGuitarrem View Post
    New card reveal from Firebat, who sounds so very stoked.

    Hidden Oasis (6)
    Druid Spell
    Choose One - Summon a 6/6 Ancient with Taunt, or restore 12 health.

    Like Firebat points out, this is the sort of card that's necessary for Druid to stabilize after the tempo loss of the Quest, which requires you to float mana on turns 2/3/4/5. It does curve out nicely, but I don't know that Choose One cards are powerful enough to be a strong payoff even after you stabilize. Like, this card basically just stops you from losing after you Quest up. We'll have to see about the rest...
    That's not the only card revealed today, there's 5 more:

    Murmy: 1 Mana 1/1 Common Neutral Murloc; Reborn

    Expired Merchant: 2 Mana 2/1 Rare Warlock Minion; Battlecry: Discard your highest cost card in your hand. Deathrattle: Add two copies of it to your hand.

    Making Mummies: 1 Mana Legendary Paladin Spell; Quest: Play 5 Reborn minions. Reward: Emperor Wraps (2 Mana Hero Power: Summon a 2/2 copy of a friendly minion.)

    Wild Bloodstinger: 6 Mana 6/9 Epic Hunter Beast; Battlecry: Summon a Minion from your opponent's hand. Attack it.

    Scarlet Webweaver: 6 Mana 5/5 Epic Hunter Beast; Battlecry: Reduce the cost of a random Beast in your hand by 5.

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    Hidden Oasis: I agree with Firebat both on the account that a 6 mana 6/6 Taunt or a 6 mana Heal 12 by themselves are lackluster, and that the combined effect with the Druid Quest is powerful. What I'm not sold on is if Quest Druid will be able to survive the 4 turns necessary to finish the quest.

    Murmy: I'm actually surprised that this is a Murloc, which does open up to tribal synergies such as Murloc Tidecaller.

    Expired Merchant: Hey Tharantar, I think this card was made for you. Seriously, discard Soulwarden, and now Soulwarden will consistently give you itself every time, no need to finagle with random discards to make it work.

    Making Mummies: Well. I don't think anyone was expecting this. Hard to judge this card when we don't have enough Reborn cards revealed to even make this work, so ease of Quest completion will have to wait till expansion release. The Hero power is pretty powerful with the right stuff (Passive effects, Deathrattles, or giant piles of keywords like Zilliax.) Sort of synergizes with Reborn, making an extra sticky board. Deck Theory craft: Quest Paladin with Mechano-Eggs, Mechanical Whelps, and Kangor's Endless Army for post-quest gameplan?

    Wild Bloodstinger: This looks pretty powerful, especially if you have Deadly Shot or even Marked Shot to finish the job, but chances are, this card will survive against anything that gets pull out of your opponent's hand. And if it does survive long enough to get Dire Frenzied... *Zevox's Nightmares voice* Greetings Traveler.

    Scarlet Webweaver: This wants to be some sort of King Krush combo enabler, but I'm not sure if Hunter can pull that off. Doesn't quite fit in my current Midrange Hunter deck with Highmane at the top, but a more late game oriented one with Witchwood Grizzlies and Wild Bloodstingers on top of that just might work.
    Last edited by Geno9999; 2019-07-19 at 12:46 PM. Reason: I can't count
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 23: The Evil League of EVIL

    The thing I like the most about Wild bloodstinger is that it's another 'break an enemy combo' card. Your opponent can't rely on a single strategy if his cornerstone minion (Like Nomi) gets summoned out of his hand and killed. Methinks hunter will remain one of the most powerful classes this next expansion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Glyphstone View Post
    What are the odds we'll get a neutral 'destroy duplicates in your deck' card of some kind, in the vein of Skulking Geist or Hemet Nesingwary? Would be both an enabler for the new Legendaries and a tech counter for Bomb decks.
    That would be great, honestly. Give people a card that helps them against Bomb Warrior but doesn't shut it down entirely, and help enable the new Highlander decks at the same time. Brilliant idea, actually.

    Quote Originally Posted by CarpeGuitarrem View Post
    New card reveal from Firebat, who sounds so very stoked.

    Hidden Oasis (6)
    Druid Spell
    Choose One - Summon a 6/6 Ancient with Taunt, or restore 12 health.

    Like Firebat points out, this is the sort of card that's necessary for Druid to stabilize after the tempo loss of the Quest, which requires you to float mana on turns 2/3/4/5. It does curve out nicely, but I don't know that Choose One cards are powerful enough to be a strong payoff even after you stabilize. Like, this card basically just stops you from losing after you Quest up. We'll have to see about the rest...
    Oo, very nice, a definite boon to the quest deck - and an extremely strong one to play with Keeper Stalladris, get it plus an extra 6/6 taunt for 6 and heal 12 for 6 (which I'd point out is equivalent to what you'd get out of Witch's Brew or Forbidden Healing at the same mana cost, so good enough even on its own). Also shows us where the new quest will probably fit the best I'd say: Lucentbark decks. I'm not sure whether the quest and this will be the push that deck needs to become a real part of the meta just yet, but maybe, and it's quite possible we'll see another card or two for it yet to give it more of a push. Not the most potent card we've seen on its own, but I think there's certainly potential here.

    Quote Originally Posted by heronbpv View Post
    And don't forget, cards like these tend to get better by the end of the year, after the final expansion, because there'll be more options available, so even if they end up not that enticing initially, somewhere between the next expansion and the next rotation this may change (e.g. what happened to Priest between KotFT and Kobolds and Catacombs).
    Sure, but we can't comment on what things will be like two expansions from now. It's hard enough predicting the next one, much less one we know literally nothing about.

    Quote Originally Posted by Geno9999 View Post
    That's not the only card revealed today, there's 5 more:

    Murmy: 1 Mana 1/1 Common Neutral Murloc; Reborn

    Expired Merchant: 2 Mana 2/1 Rare Warlock Minion; Battlecry: Discard your highest cost card in your hand. Deathrattle: Add two copies of it to your hand.

    Making Mummies: 1 Mana Legendary Paladin Spell; Quest: Play 5 Reborn minions. Reward: Emperor Wraps (2 Mana Hero Power: Summon a 2/2 copy of a friendly minion.)

    Wild Bloodstinger: 6 Mana 6/9 Epic Hunter Beast; Battlecry: Summon a Minion from your opponent's hand. Attack it.

    Scarlet Webweaver: 6 Mana 5/5 Epic Hunter Beast; Battlecry: Reduce the cost of a random Beast in your hand by 5.
    Murmy - Basically a Murloc version of Possessed Villager/Mecharoo, therefore automatically a good card. Goes into Murloc Shaman immediately, and Quest Paladin if that's a thing. Maybe Zoolock or something else that likes 1-drops will use it too.

    Expired Merchant: Very interesting card with the Rhastkhan discard package, especially Soul Warden. Might help that see some actual play some day, though whether it'll be in the coming expansion really depends on what else Warlock gets. I think that deck needs more help than just this.

    Making Mummies: Very interesting. That reward can be some massive value with deathrattle minions like Mechanical Egg or Mechanical Whelp - hell, it's basically the Priest card Shadowy Figure from last set, but as a hero power and without the restriction of only copying deathrattle minions. But we haven't even seen enough Reborn minions yet to activate this (just two, one of which is Warrior...), so it's hard to judge its actual viability at this point. I like it, hope it's good, but we need to see those Reborn minions first.

    Wild Bloodstinger: Okay, this card scares me. I legit don't think that effect should be on an over-statted minion. It's only a drawback if it pulls something bigger than it, and not much is bigger than it as it stands. Hell, even if it pulls something like a Blastmaster Boom or a Giant, it survives and takes out most of their health. And for anything smaller than that? It can do things like be a 6/5 for 6 that forced your opponent to discard an Omega Devastator, which is nuts. And if it pulls a small minion, it's a 6/8 or 6/7 for 6 that still made your opponent discard a cheap card, which isn't bad at all. The only real things it has issues with are deathrattles, reborn, and divine shield. I am quite afraid we might be seeing a lot of this.

    Scarlet Webweaver: This might just be good, honestly, no combo shenanigans required. If you think of the mana savings as an effective reduction to its own cost in how much tempo it gains you, this is probably fine even if it hits a 2 mana minion (becomes as if you played a 4 mana 5/5 beast), and gets good if it hits anything more expensive than that. At full power, it's like a 1 mana 5/5, which is nuts. The only issue I see is that the most obvious deck to put this in is Midrange Hunter, and currently since they run all beasts to take advantage of Master's Call, they also have especially cheap beasts like Springpaw, which you definitely don't want to hit with this. But by the same token, those are cards that it shouldn't be too much trouble for them to play out before they drop this guy, specifically because they're cheap. Again, one we might just be seeing a lot of.
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  25. - Top - End - #595
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 23: The Evil League of EVIL

    I like how the HS team used to be like "we don't want to have feel-bad mechanics like discarding opponent cards" and now they're just randomly introducing "pull minions from your opponent's hand" cards.

    Paladin quest seems absurd if they can line up enough Reborn minions. Until you run out of minions, it's roughly as powerful as the Paladin Death Knight hero power (not counting OTK shenanigans), and there's some nasty synergies you can line up by copying minions.
    Last edited by CarpeGuitarrem; 2019-07-19 at 07:53 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarpeGuitarrem View Post
    I like how the HS team used to be like "we don't want to have feel-bad mechanics like discarding opponent cards" and now they're just randomly introducing "pull minions from your opponent's hand" cards.
    To be fair, we had Dirty Rat before, so that part's not unprecedented. "Pull a minion from your opponent's hand and hit them with a 6/9" is the problem. It's a little like Swamp King Dread I suppose, except that the opponent had control over what he hit and could answer him with a spell to prevent him from hitting anything, which made him a lot more okay.

    Quote Originally Posted by CarpeGuitarrem View Post
    Paladin quest seems absurd if they can line up enough Reborn minions. Until you run out of minions, it's roughly as powerful as the Paladin Death Knight hero power (not counting OTK shenanigans), and there's some nasty synergies you can line up by copying minions.
    Oh, it's much more powerful than the Uther hero power minus OTK shenanigans. Uther hero power without OTK shenanigans wasn't anything special, sadly - but this hero power can get card text from anything you can play onto its 2/2s, which is a massive upgrade. The cost is that it can't be used to just make a minion on an empty board, but you'll just have to build your deck around that. Which shouldn't be too hard, hopefully, most Paladin decks historically are low on spells and high on minions compared to other classes.
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  27. - Top - End - #597
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zevox View Post
    Oh, it's much more powerful than the Uther hero power minus OTK shenanigans. Uther hero power without OTK shenanigans wasn't anything special, sadly - but this hero power can get card text from anything you can play onto its 2/2s, which is a massive upgrade. The cost is that it can't be used to just make a minion on an empty board, but you'll just have to build your deck around that. Which shouldn't be too hard, hopefully, most Paladin decks historically are low on spells and high on minions compared to other classes.
    The other cost is that you have to run Reborn minions. Will Blizzard release any in the following four expansions, or will Making Mummies be another one-off parasitic Paladin package that sees sporadic support at best?

    Also, what cost would be appropriate for a 1/1 Divine Shield/Reborn/Taunt minion? I feel like that's the kind of thing that they might have to put in Paladin for the quest to be an attractive build-around.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mando Knight View Post
    The other cost is that you have to run Reborn minions. Will Blizzard release any in the following four expansions, or will Making Mummies be another one-off parasitic Paladin package that sees sporadic support at best?

    Also, what cost would be appropriate for a 1/1 Divine Shield/Reborn/Taunt minion? I feel like that's the kind of thing that they might have to put in Paladin for the quest to be an attractive build-around.
    Probably the latter, but if the reborn minions this expansion are good and any that they throw in later are as well, that can be fine. So far both reborn minions that we've seen are quite good.

    And probably 2 mana for that last. It's Righteous Protector plus Reborn, or Annoy-o-Tron minus one health to gain Reborn, so that seems about right.
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 23: The Evil League of EVIL

    It's been a while, and several new cards have been announced:

    Bazaar Mugger: 5 mana 3/5 Rare Rogue minion, Rush, Battlecry: Add a random minion from another class to your hand.

    Desert Obelisk: 5 mana 0/5 Epic Neutral minion, If you control 3 of these at the end of your turn, deal 5 damage to a random enemy.

    EVIL Recruiter: 3 mana 3/3 Common Warlock minion, Battlecry: Destroy a friendly Lackey to summon a 5/5 demon.

    Riftcleaver: 6 mana 7/5 Epic Warlock minion, Battlecry: Destroy a minion. Your hero takes damage equal to its health.

    Hunter's Pack: 3 mana Common Hunter spell, Add a random Hunter Beast, Secret, and Weapon to your hand.

    Bloodsworn Mercenary: 3 mana 3/3 Epic Warrior minion, Battlecry: Choose a damaged friendly minion. Summon a copy of it.

    Fishflinger: 2 mana 3/2 Common Neutral Murloc, Battlecry: Add a random Murloc to each player's hand.

    Tip the Scales: 8 mana Epic Paladin spell, Summon 7 Murlocs from your deck.

    Anka, the Buried: 5 mana 5/5 Legendary Rogue minion, Battlecry: Change each Deathrattle minion in your hand into a 1/1 that costs (1).

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    Okay, a bunch of new cards today - nine all at once. Seems the reveal pace is picking up.

    Bazaar Mugger: Rogue 5 mana 3/5. Rush. Battlecry: add a random minion to your hand from another class.
    - Seems reasonably good, but nothing crazy, which means it probably won't push Thief Rogue's power level up much. And I don't think any other type of Rogue will want to bother with it.
    Desert Obelisk: Neutral 5 mana 0/5. If you control 3 of these at the end of your turn, deal 5 damage to a random enemy.
    - If this is not the worst card in the entire set, I will be stunned. A 5 mana 0/5 (bad), which you need to somehow get three copies of (much worse) on the board simultaneously to benefit from at all (utterly horrible), and to cap it all off, the payoff isn't even that good. 5 damage, randomly targetted. For all those hoops you have to jump through I'd expect this thing to be casting a one-sided Twisting Nether on my enemy's board every turn to even look like it might be worth it, and even then it'd probably suck. And the only synergy we've seen so far is maybe the Paladin quest's hero power, and even if you only needed two copies to turn it on that wouldn't look that good for the mana cost. Just wow. Who is this even for? With a bigger payoff I could see people who like weird deck-building challenges wanting it, like Star Aligner or something, but with that measly payoff, who will even bother? This is legitimately worse than Angry Chicken levels of bad.
    EVIL Recruiter: Warlock 3 mana 3/3. Battlecry: Destroy a friendly Lackey to summon a 5/5 demon.
    - I think we found where all of the power that Desert Obelisk doesn't have went. Holy moly, I can't believe they're printing this, because that is utterly insane. It's not even understatted or anything, and that effect is bonkers. Zoolock is going to be a pretty serious threat again, it seems.
    Riftcleaver: Warlock 6 mana 7/5 Demon. Battlecry: Destroy an enemy minion. Your hero takes damage equal to its health.
    - It's a Lich King card attached to a decent body. Wow, but that is strong. The only problem is that it's the kind of card that most wants to be in a Control deck, but Control Warlock currently has a problem with lack of healing, and this would only exacerbate that. If Warlock gets something to shore that up, this will be great in that kind of deck. Otherwise... eh, maybe Zoo will even consider it, despite it being more expensive than that deck typically wants, because the card's power level is just that high.
    Hunter's Pack: Hunter 3 mana spell. Add a random Hunter Beast, Secret, and Weapon to your hand.
    - Eh, this basically exists as something to throw into Highlander Hunter, I think. Doesn't seem great, but helps give that kind of deck some extra gas, if it becomes a thing.
    Bloodsworn Mercenary: Warrior 3 mana 3/3. Battlecry: Choose a damaged friendly minion. Summon a copy of it.
    - That is a very powerful effect on a decent body for the cost, but probably doesn't fit into Control or Bomb Warrior as its stands. It more so wants some kind of midrange or tempo Warrior to exist, I think. I don't know, maybe it'll push that kind of archetype enough to make it happen, but I'm presently skeptical I'd say. Or maybe somebody comes up with some specific combo it enables that surprises everyone - but even if they did, the anti-combo cards from Rise of Shadows are around to keep such decks in check.
    Fishflinger: Neutral 2 mana 3/2 Murloc. Battlecry: Add a random Murloc to each player's hand.
    - I could totally see Murloc decks playing this, since a random Murloc is generally much better for them than for their opponents. Nobody else though, of course. And it's another 2 health Murloc for the Plague's RNG pool, helping that card out a bit.
    Tip the Scales: Paladin 8 mana spell. Summon 7 Murlocs from your deck.
    - ...what? We're on Murloc Paladin again? Why? Because of Finley? But you actively don't want to get him with this, because then you don't get his battlecry. Just... do they have any idea what they want to do with Paladin? Because we saw that package of 1-health minions, but then the Quest was based on Reborn, and now we've got this, so that's three different directions we've seen already, and none of them are previously-established ones that could use some help hitting viability like the Secret or Dragon decks they pushed last time. Seems very disjointed.
    Anka, the Buried: Rogue 5 mana 5/5 (Legendary). Battlecry: Change each Deathrattle minion in your hand into a 1/1 that costs (1).
    - Oh, that is a big effect that you might be able to do some crazy things with. Now, Rogue can't really do the value deck with things like Mechanical Whelp most likely, but just glancing at the options, the one that scares me is Mecha'thun. Structure the deck as a Miracle Rogue, get this effect on him, throw out Myra's to empty your deck, empty the rest of your hand, and then win with 1/1 Mecha'thun into backstab/eviscerate/shiv/whatever. It might be a very good thing that we've got those anti-combo cards from Rise of Shadows, because I could very much see that being a real deck with this girl around.

    Edit: Bah, beaten to the punch while I was typing all that. Curse you ranagrande! *shakes fist dramatically*
    Last edited by Zevox; 2019-07-22 at 05:42 PM.
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