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  1. - Top - End - #331
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    ElfRogueGirl

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    Default Re: Hearthstone 23: The Evil League of EVIL

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    Link? Google turns up nothing for this character.
    Was actually Nici
    https://wow.gamepedia.com/Moon_Priestess_Nici

    She's the magical girl boss in Hearthstone.

  2. - Top - End - #332
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    SamuraiGuy

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    Default Re: Hearthstone 23: The Evil League of EVIL

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    The only one that comes to mind is a silenced Harbinger Celestia (6 health on turn 4), but that never ended up being a big deal in Big Priest either.

    By the way, I was wondering - if you silence her after she transforms, does she change back?
    Henchclan Shadequill has 7 health at 4 mana. You can easily heal it with something like Circle of Healing etc. Topsy Turvy also means you essentially have 4 Inner Fires in your deck, which is nice for consistency.

  3. - Top - End - #333
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    GnomeWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Hearthstone 23: The Evil League of EVIL

    Quote Originally Posted by Requizen View Post
    Henchclan Shadequill has 7 health at 4 mana. You can easily heal it with something like Circle of Healing etc. Topsy Turvy also means you essentially have 4 Inner Fires in your deck, which is nice for consistency.
    It's not stealthed, which is what the original comparison was about. A stealth minion being part of the combo is one of the things that makes Snip-Snap so dangerous. Circle of Healing is also less than ideal, because it only heals for 4 and most decks will be able to deal more than that on turn 4. It also adds an additional card to the combo, which is already a 4-card combo - it requires exactly Shadequill on 4, followed by Divine Spirit/Divine Spirit/Inner Fire(or Topsy). That's difficult to pull off on turn 5, and also does not actually kill an opponent from 30.

    In other words, you need to have sufficient board control that your opponent cannot deal more than 4 damage to the Shadequill, while also reserving 5 out of the 8 cards you will get leading into that turn. And having those 5 cards be exactly the ones drawn.

    As opposed to reserving 2 cards, and simply playing Zoo Priest until your opponent fails to clear a mech. One of which is a 4 health stealth minion, which some classes have literally no way to remove.

    Oh, and it's been pointed out that Priest is able to tutor for Snip-Snap using Dead Ringer. So the "they never draw Snip-Snap" argument doesn't even work.

    ----

    Even if they do fix the OTK, I don't know that I'm pleased about every class getting a Pyroblast. 9-mana for 9 damage to the face isn't the worst thing ever, but it's a global addition that doesn't "cost" deck space. That's more than a little worrying to me - it's like adding another Leeroy to everyone's decks.

  4. - Top - End - #334
    Eldritch Horror in the Playground Moderator
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 23: The Evil League of EVIL

    So what would be the best, least-disruptive way to fix the OTK? My first reaction would be to raise SN1P-SN4P to 4 Mana, but that might require a stat increase as well or it's just Magnetic Harvest Golem.

  5. - Top - End - #335
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 23: The Evil League of EVIL

    Quote Originally Posted by The Glyphstone View Post
    So what would be the best, least-disruptive way to fix the OTK? My first reaction would be to raise SN1P-SN4P to 4 Mana, but that might require a stat increase as well or it's just Magnetic Harvest Golem.
    My opinion would be for the Reckless Experimenter to not reduce echo mana costs.

  6. - Top - End - #336
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 23: The Evil League of EVIL

    Quote Originally Posted by The Glyphstone View Post
    So what would be the best, least-disruptive way to fix the OTK? My first reaction would be to raise SN1P-SN4P to 4 Mana, but that might require a stat increase as well or it's just Magnetic Harvest Golem.
    Raising it to 4 mana makes the Echo keyword kind of pointless, restricting it to only being played 2 times in a turn, unless you play Snip-Snap in a deck that does run mana discounts, such as Reckless Experimenter or Summoning Portal.

    Personally I would remove the Deathrattle in the first place, and just make it a 3 Mana 3/3 with Magnetic and Echo, basically make it a Magnetic Walnut Sprite.
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  7. - Top - End - #337
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 23: The Evil League of EVIL

    Quote Originally Posted by Geno9999 View Post
    Raising it to 4 mana makes the Echo keyword kind of pointless, restricting it to only being played 2 times in a turn, unless you play Snip-Snap in a deck that does run mana discounts, such as Reckless Experimenter or Summoning Portal.

    Personally I would remove the Deathrattle in the first place, and just make it a 3 Mana 3/3 with Magnetic and Echo, basically make it a Magnetic Walnut Sprite.
    Doesn't remove the OTK though. Reckless experimenter will still let it be cast infinitely on a mech.

  8. - Top - End - #338
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 23: The Evil League of EVIL

    Quote Originally Posted by Resileaf View Post
    Doesn't remove the OTK though. Reckless experimenter will still let it be cast infinitely on a mech.
    Reckless Experimenter only reduces costs on Deathrattle Minions.

    Can't reduce the cost of Snip-Snap if Snip-Snap isn't a Deathrattle Minion.
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  9. - Top - End - #339
    Eldritch Horror in the Playground Moderator
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 23: The Evil League of EVIL

    Quote Originally Posted by Resileaf View Post
    Doesn't remove the OTK though. Reckless experimenter will still let it be cast infinitely on a mech.
    RE reduces by 3 IIRC, so that means even the echos will cost 1 Mana. It also slows it down, since RE itself is Turn 5. So instead of T4 mech, T5 OTK, you have to get a mech and RE to both stick for at least a turn before you can drop a giant stack of Magnetics.

    EDIT: I think removing the Deathrattle is more elegant though, I agree.
    Last edited by The Glyphstone; 2019-05-23 at 12:23 PM.

  10. - Top - End - #340
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 23: The Evil League of EVIL

    Quote Originally Posted by Geno9999 View Post
    Reckless Experimenter only reduces costs on Deathrattle Minions.

    Can't reduce the cost of Snip-Snap if Snip-Snap isn't a Deathrattle Minion.
    Yeah, I derped. >_>
    Yay reading comprehension.

  11. - Top - End - #341
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 23: The Evil League of EVIL

    Quote Originally Posted by Geno9999 View Post
    Reckless Experimenter only reduces costs on Deathrattle Minions.

    Can't reduce the cost of Snip-Snap if Snip-Snap isn't a Deathrattle Minion.
    Yeah, removing the deathrattle is probably the best, easiest most efficient solution to that problem before it ever becomes one.

    but knowing they usually handle things, I'm going to pessimistically assume its never going to happen, blizzard will somehow be surprised and nerf reckless experimenter instead.
    I'm also on discord as "raziere".


  12. - Top - End - #342
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    GnomeWizardGuy

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    Quote Originally Posted by Resileaf View Post
    My opinion would be for the Reckless Experimenter to not reduce echo mana costs.
    This seems like the best change, but I question how it would be implemented.

    Reckless Experimenter reduces costs in hand, meaning that they would have to make an exception for this card in particular so that it never gets its cost reduced. Depending on how the cards are coded, this may not be as easy as it appears. You then have to worry about confusing players - where would it be written that Echo cards don't get reduced by Reckless Experimenter? It's the sort of rules clutter that Blizzard has historically taken a strong stand against.

    The other solution of removing the Deathrattle is easier to implement, but it also makes the card kinda boring. 3/3 Magnetic Echo is the sort of thing you get on a common pack filler card, and not a special Legendary. Again, it does the job, but it's not ideal.

    Unfortunately, I don't have any better ideas myself. You can remove Reckless Experimenter, but that just leaves the door open for any other "reduces Deathrattle cost" card ever. I'm thinking specifically of Corpse Widow...which, come to think of it, means that Snip-Snap is also an OTK deck in Wild even if we deal with the Experimenter. Nowhere near as good, mind. The point remains that it would seriously hamper design space.

  13. - Top - End - #343
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 23: The Evil League of EVIL

    Quote Originally Posted by Rodin View Post
    Unfortunately, I don't have any better ideas myself. You can remove Reckless Experimenter, but that just leaves the door open for any other "reduces Deathrattle cost" card ever. I'm thinking specifically of Corpse Widow...which, come to think of it, means that Snip-Snap is also an OTK deck in Wild even if we deal with the Experimenter. Nowhere near as good, mind. The point remains that it would seriously hamper design space.
    Eh, I wouldn't worry about Corpse Widow, there's a much better way in Wild, and it's neutral:

    "Powering up, Portal online!" "Powering up, Portal online!" "Ssssuch a perfect ssspecimen..." "Powering up, Portal online!" *Infinite Robot Crab noises.*
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  14. - Top - End - #344
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 23: The Evil League of EVIL

    Given that there are no other Magnetic Echos, I think that even removing the deathrattle would still leave SN1P-SN4P pretty unique.

    With that said, removing the Deathrattle does nothing about the Wild OTK above.
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 23: The Evil League of EVIL

    Quote Originally Posted by Geno9999 View Post
    Oh wild, your so broken!

    *canned laughter*

    I have a zola, so don't expect me to not use that if I get the chance.
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  16. - Top - End - #346
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    GnomeWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Hearthstone 23: The Evil League of EVIL

    So, Chapter 3 of Dalaran Heist has hit. I immediately went in and tried to do Heroic, only to be informed that I have to beat Story/Normal mode. Given how stupidly easy that was for the first two chapters, I wasn't best pleased.

    ...I proceeded to wipe out on 5 bosses, and then again on 3 bosses. Yikes.

    There definitely appears to be a power spike based on chapter. The unique bosses to chapter 3 have been pretty damn scary so far, even on Normal. I don't want to think about what they're going to look like on Heroic.

    Also, I want a Captain Eudora plushie. She is just adorable.

  17. - Top - End - #347
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 23: The Evil League of EVIL

    I beat it first try as Priest...but it was a close run thing. Joybuzz is brutal, and only my First Aid Kit pick as the first treasure kept me alive. I was down to 3 HP before I could wipe his board and keep it clean long enough to start doing damage.

  18. - Top - End - #348
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 23: The Evil League of EVIL

    Quote Originally Posted by Rodin View Post
    Even if they do fix the OTK, I don't know that I'm pleased about every class getting a Pyroblast. 9-mana for 9 damage to the face isn't the worst thing ever, but it's a global addition that doesn't "cost" deck space. That's more than a little worrying to me - it's like adding another Leeroy to everyone's decks.
    It's attack is only 2, so played three times it's only giving +6 attack, not +9, which is more reasonable considering the mana cost.

    Quote Originally Posted by Resileaf View Post
    My opinion would be for the Reckless Experimenter to not reduce echo mana costs.
    If possible that would be the best option, as it impacts each card as little as possible. As someone else was pointing out though, depending on the coding, that might not be possible, sadly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Geno9999 View Post
    Personally I would remove the Deathrattle in the first place, and just make it a 3 Mana 3/3 with Magnetic and Echo, basically make it a Magnetic Walnut Sprite.
    That would be a rather major nerf to it, dropping it from a very strong looking card even outside the OTK to a much more iffy place. You're effectively removing 1/2 of total stats from it as well as taking away the stickiness of the deathrattle.

    If they do need to remove the deathrattle to make this work, all I can think of is that they could make it a battlecry instead, but I wonder if that might just be too much? Then it's a straight-up unconditional 4/5 for 3. We've only seen that before on the one Paladin minion that required Dragon synergy to work, which never worked out mostly because Dragon Paladin has never come together as a deck.

    Quote Originally Posted by Geno9999 View Post
    Eh, nobody cares about Wild anyway .

    Though seriously, I do think they might just shrug and let that pass in Wild, unless it becomes extremely common and what few Wild players as exist start raising a fuss about it. Though it does really make it feel like giving a card both Echo and Magnetic in general is perhaps an inherently problematic combination and they might want to rethink doing so at all.
    Last edited by Zevox; 2019-05-23 at 06:33 PM.
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  19. - Top - End - #349
    Eldritch Horror in the Playground Moderator
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 23: The Evil League of EVIL

    Quote Originally Posted by Rynjin View Post
    I beat it first try as Priest...but it was a close run thing. Joybuzz is brutal, and only my First Aid Kit pick as the first treasure kept me alive. I was down to 3 HP before I could wipe his board and keep it clean long enough to start doing damage.
    Joybuzz was easy for me because i was running Big/Rez Priest with Emerald Goggles. When you draw Yssarj T1 and his 1/1 clone summons Catrina Muertre, who proceeds to reanimate a 10/10 Yssarj on T2, its basically game. The troll pirate who gets infinite treasures was my worst, couldnt fatigue him and he kept stealing or nuking my stuff with treasures.

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    Default Re: Hearthstone 23: The Evil League of EVIL

    Quote Originally Posted by Zevox View Post
    Eh, nobody cares about Wild anyway .

    Though seriously, I do think they might just shrug and let that pass in Wild, unless it becomes extremely common and what few Wild players as exist start raising a fuss about it. Though it does really make it feel like giving a card both Echo and Magnetic in general is perhaps an inherently problematic combination and they might want to rethink doing so at all.
    I think it's less the power level being a problem for Wild and more that it's a completely class-agnostic 4-5 card OTK; meaning you can stick it in any chassis that can stall well enough, or even as an alternate win condition in a deck that's trying to do something else entirely. So it's only going to get better over time unless they do something about the interaction itself. More incentive for them to take another look at it, in other words.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    but knowing they usually handle things, I'm going to pessimistically assume its never going to happen, blizzard will somehow be surprised and nerf reckless experimenter instead.
    However, this seems the most likely outcome to me currently.
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  21. - Top - End - #351
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 23: The Evil League of EVIL

    I care about wild. *kicks dirt clod*

    That seems pretty unlikely a sequence of events. More likely it is just going to be an unfortunately big Mechwarper.
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 23: The Evil League of EVIL

    Quote Originally Posted by Rynjin View Post
    I beat it first try as Priest...but it was a close run thing. Joybuzz is brutal, and only my First Aid Kit pick as the first treasure kept me alive. I was down to 3 HP before I could wipe his board and keep it clean long enough to start doing damage.
    I beat Joybuzz first time once I actually got to him. I had the treasure that gives 2 armor when a friendly minion dies, so my HP pool wasn't a problem. After that I just Togwaggle's Schemed a bazillion Sylvanases into my deck and stole all his deathrattles.

    I've tried doing Heroic a few times now, but I keep running into Bae Chao. That lady is SERIOUSLY scary. You have to gain utter board dominance by about turn 3 or 4 or she just curves you into the ground. God help you if you're running Deathrattle Priest.

    Edit: Also, Joybuzz on Heroic is not at all fun. His hero power becomes one-sided, and you have to really keep the pressure up on him to stand a chance. I lost when he drew into Stormwind Champion and Houndmaster Shaw on the same turn, allowing him to get a 2/2 Rush minion every time he drew. When one of those minions is a Sylvanas....
    Last edited by Rodin; 2019-05-24 at 04:01 AM.

  23. - Top - End - #353
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 23: The Evil League of EVIL

    Joybuzz on normal seemed pretty easy. The chapter 3 twist of only having 4 board slots seems to actively work against him. I was playing a super clunky priest with some mild heal synergy (+2 health to all characters every turn and a few cards like lightwarden that synergized with that), but otherwise just a hodgepodge of stuff, and I pulled through without too much trouble.

    Then again I guess it's probably just one of those RNG things. If he pulls mechanical welp or the legendary shredder in the first 1-3 draws before you can reasonably be set up for it, I can see it going downhill fast. Similar to the Pogo Boss, if he draws crap at the beginning, it's cake. If he draws well, he steamrolls the best deck you've drafted since the mode opened (not bitter at all)

    Haven't had the chance to try heroic yet
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 23: The Evil League of EVIL

    https://www.reddit.com/r/hearthstone...r_card_change/

    I guess that settles that for now.

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    Default Re: Hearthstone 23: The Evil League of EVIL

    That does do it for that version.
    The Wild mechwarper version will still be a OTK, so I suppose we'll be seeing those a lot when SN1P-SN4P is released. Anyone without that combo is pretty much going to not be able to win unless very lucky.

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    Default Re: Hearthstone 23: The Evil League of EVIL

    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Cardew View Post
    Indeed. Not too bad of a change, though definitely a net nerf to Experimenter.

    ...though actually, it may not be enough. Being able to reduce the cost to 1 with Experimenter is still a big deal, you can turn Snip-Snap into +10 damage that way, and more importantly, if they missed that magnetized mechs played with Experimenter aren't dying, it may go through as a way to achieve a permanent +10/+15 buff with five copies of that deathrattle. That could still see play and be a very dangerous thing that they might still need to nerf further.
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 23: The Evil League of EVIL

    Quote Originally Posted by Zevox View Post
    Indeed. Not too bad of a change, though definitely a net nerf to Experimenter.

    ...though actually, it may not be enough. Being able to reduce the cost to 1 with Experimenter is still a big deal, you can turn Snip-Snap into +10 damage that way, and more importantly, if they missed that magnetized mechs played with Experimenter aren't dying, it may go through as a way to achieve a permanent +10/+15 buff with five copies of that deathrattle. That could still see play and be a very dangerous thing that they might still need to nerf further.
    This assumes that Mech Priest is otherwise a thing worth running at that point though, since I don't think as a 2 card combo that's strong enough to carry the entire archtype by itself now.

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    Default Re: Hearthstone 23: The Evil League of EVIL

    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Cardew View Post
    Well, someone better pick up the phone...

    ...cause I called it.
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 23: The Evil League of EVIL

    Quote Originally Posted by Manticoran View Post
    This assumes that Mech Priest is otherwise a thing worth running at that point though, since I don't think as a 2 card combo that's strong enough to carry the entire archtype by itself now.
    Maybe. I think that at the least we can expect such things to be tried though. We know that the Extra Arms buff should make a more minion-focused Priest deck much more appealing on its own, and I would very much think that combo could easily push that deck into a Mech-focused direction. It does remain to be seen how well that works out, but it could end up scary.
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 23: The Evil League of EVIL

    Just had a final boss fight so epic I need to talk about it!

    Against Jepetto on Heroic as Deathrattle Hunter (with the 2x Deathrattle artifact):

    First, I set up lethal for the following turn. With no spells to help, he desperately attacks his Sneed in...and gets Ragnaros Lightlord, who heals face. The board pressure is such that I have to trade away my advantage to prevent the counter-swing.

    I set up a second lethal a few turns later by Carnivorous Cubing a Stranglethorn Tiger to give me 4 stealthed Tigers. He top-decks Crushing Walls to prevent it, then plays Crushing Walls a second time the following turn to take control of the board.

    This gives him the tempo to set up lethal himself...except one of the Chameleons I get turns into a Wax Elemental, which allows me to survive the attacks at 1 HP.

    A couple turns of frantic trading later, I draw a card I didn't want in my deck at all - Goblin Prank. It's enough to allow me to play a Swamp Leech (again off the Chameleons) and rush it in to barely survive.

    Then the final twist - the Chameleon gives me, of all cards, Forbidden Ancient. 10 mana 10/10 for the win.

    I am never mocking that Chameleon hero power ever again. It saved my bacon again and again in that fight.

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