The Order of the Stick: Utterly Dwarfed
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  1. - Top - End - #361
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 23: The Evil League of EVIL

    Quote Originally Posted by Resileaf View Post
    That does do it for that version.
    The Wild mechwarper version will still be a OTK, so I suppose we'll be seeing those a lot when SN1P-SN4P is released. Anyone without that combo is pretty much going to not be able to win unless very lucky.
    I honestly wouldn't be surprised if it was neutered to oblivion in the future when either reckless experimenter or SnipSnap rotates, like they did with Patches. But until then, Blizzard doesn't care about broken interactions in wild.

  2. - Top - End - #362
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 23: The Evil League of EVIL

    As far as the adventure go, I genuinely started laughing when Madame Lazul commented on Applebough the treant being a fruit vendor. "Dot's weird, right? It's not just me?"
    Last edited by The Glyphstone; 2019-05-24 at 10:57 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Red Fel, on quest rewards View Post
    "Is a stack of ten pancakes too many pancakes to give to the party, even if most of them fell on the floor and one or two were stepped on? I wanted to give my party pancakes as a reward but I'm unsure if it's too much. The pancakes are also laced with blowfish poison so the party would have to get an antitoxin before they could eat the ones which weren't pulverized by shoes."

    I don't think anyone would want those pancakes even if you paid them to eat them.

  3. - Top - End - #363
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 23: The Evil League of EVIL

    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Cardew View Post
    Nice thing about this change is that it doesn't also kill Mecha'thun Priest in Wild, since the cards used (Coffin Crasher and Ticking Abominations) were all above 3 mana in the first place.

    As for Mechwarper, the interactions it has in Wild with Magnetic and Echo has basically been a thing since Boomsday, since Warlock has Glinda Crowskin to provide the Echo. In theory Glinda + Mechwarper + any Magnetic Mech is much easier to get into hand than 2 copies of Mechwarper + Zola + specifically Snip-Snap. However, looking up on HSreplay, that kind of Warlock deck is not even showing up, and so I'm inclined to think that Blizzard will ultimately do nothing about Mechwarper.
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  4. - Top - End - #364
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 23: The Evil League of EVIL

    Quote Originally Posted by Geno9999 View Post
    As for Mechwarper, the interactions it has in Wild with Magnetic and Echo has basically been a thing since Boomsday, since Warlock has Glinda Crowskin to provide the Echo. In theory Glinda + Mechwarper + any Magnetic Mech is much easier to get into hand than 2 copies of Mechwarper + Zola + specifically Snip-Snap. However, looking up on HSreplay, that kind of Warlock deck is not even showing up, and so I'm inclined to think that Blizzard will ultimately do nothing about Mechwarper.
    Huh, that's an interesting point. Glinda + Mechwarper + Skaterbot on any mech accomplishes the job much easier than the elaborate triple Mechwarper Snip-Snap setup, save only that it takes more mana (8 for Glinda vs 6 for Snip-Snap, thanks to the Mechwarpers discounting each other). But since you're probably unlikely to have all of the cards for the Snip-Snap setup by turn 6, that probably doesn't matter too much. I wonder if that just hasn't been done because Wild is so much less played than Standard, and nobody thought of it as a result?
    Last edited by Zevox; 2019-05-25 at 12:50 AM.
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  5. - Top - End - #365
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 23: The Evil League of EVIL

    I mean. It's not that much easier. Zola + Mechwarper + Snip-Snap is almost as easy as the Reckless Experimenter combo, and of course it's available to every class, which means it's easier to find a class that it fits into. But as mentioned, they don't care about Wild.
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  6. - Top - End - #366
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 23: The Evil League of EVIL

    It is going to be interesting to see if anyone can figure out how to make glinda warlock a thing. People tried before but this is another card with synergy with summoning portal. Maybe have a very mech heavy warlock deck?
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  7. - Top - End - #367
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    Yeah, weirdly-enough, having a minion with Echo already does make sense for a Glinda deck, because it lets you do something with your cost-reducers if you don't draw Glinda.
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    Unless everyone's been lying to me and the next bunch of episodes are The Great Divide II, The Great Divide III, Return to the Great Divide, and Bride of the Great Divide, in which case I hate you all and I'm never touching Avatar again.

  8. - Top - End - #368
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 23: The Evil League of EVIL

    Quote Originally Posted by CarpeGuitarrem View Post
    I mean. It's not that much easier. Zola + Mechwarper + Snip-Snap is almost as easy as the Reckless Experimenter combo,
    What? No it isn't. There's a pretty substantial difference between a five card combo which requires both copies of one card and a three card combo that just needs one of each. Plus the five card combo involves two legendaries while the three card one only involves one.
    Last edited by Zevox; 2019-05-25 at 09:44 AM.
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  9. - Top - End - #369
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 23: The Evil League of EVIL

    I'm convinced the Moragg fight in wing 2 is impossible.

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    Default Re: Hearthstone 23: The Evil League of EVIL

    Isn't it just an easier version of the same boss in Dungeon Run?
    Quote Originally Posted by Red Fel, on quest rewards View Post
    "Is a stack of ten pancakes too many pancakes to give to the party, even if most of them fell on the floor and one or two were stepped on? I wanted to give my party pancakes as a reward but I'm unsure if it's too much. The pancakes are also laced with blowfish poison so the party would have to get an antitoxin before they could eat the ones which weren't pulverized by shoes."

    I don't think anyone would want those pancakes even if you paid them to eat them.

  11. - Top - End - #371
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 23: The Evil League of EVIL

    Hoist on your own petard.

    Definition: Playing Fly By, only for your opponent to "gift" you his deck while you are in fatigue so that you draw the Kadoom Bot the turn you have lethal.

    Well played, AI. Well played.

  12. - Top - End - #372
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 23: The Evil League of EVIL

    Quote Originally Posted by Zevox View Post
    What? No it isn't. There's a pretty substantial difference between a five card combo which requires both copies of one card and a three card combo that just needs one of each. Plus the five card combo involves two legendaries while the three card one only involves one.
    Zola+Snip-Snap+Mechwarper is a three-card combo, not a five-card combo, that requires two copies of Mechwarper.

    All versions of the OTK already require you to have a mech in play.
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  13. - Top - End - #373
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 23: The Evil League of EVIL

    I wish they'd nerfed control warrior. imho it has too many cards with stupidly good synergy bonuses/late game scaling without early game cost.
    I also wish there was less netdecking; kinda lame to have to face them constnatly even in the weaker tiers.
    Last edited by zlefin; 2019-05-26 at 09:18 AM.
    A neat custom class for 3.5 system
    http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=94616

    A good set of benchmarks for PF/3.5
    https://rpgwillikers.wordpress.com/2...y-the-numbers/

    An alternate craft point system I made for 3.5
    http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...t-Point-system

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    Default Re: Hearthstone 23: The Evil League of EVIL

    Quote Originally Posted by CarpeGuitarrem View Post
    Zola+Snip-Snap+Mechwarper is a three-card combo, not a five-card combo, that requires two copies of Mechwarper.

    All versions of the OTK already require you to have a mech in play.
    Zola + Snip-Snap + Mechwarper also isn't the full combo. It doesn't reduce Snip-Snap's cost to 0. You need both Mechwarpers plus Zola to create a third for that. And in addition, you need another Mech that was already on the board and thus can attack face. 2x Mechwarper + Zola + Snip-Snap + another Mech on the board = 5 cards.

    By comparison, Snip-Snap + Reckless Experimenter + another Mech on the board was all that was required for the combo they nerfed. That's 3 cards. Substantially easier.

    Quote Originally Posted by zlefin View Post
    I wish they'd nerfed control warrior. imho it has too many cards with stupidly good synergy bonuses/late game scaling without early game cost.
    I also wish there was less netdecking; kinda lame to have to face them constnatly even in the weaker tiers.
    I really hope they don't. Control Warrior actually being good is a substantial part of why I've been enjoying the game of late, as opposed to finding it miserable last year, when combo decks were so dominant.

    And there's no avoiding netdecking. People want to share what they learn about the game, want to know what wins so they can play that, and the internet allows them to do that quickly and easily. It's human nature and unavoidable for a game like this, you really just have to accept it.
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  15. - Top - End - #375
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 23: The Evil League of EVIL

    Quote Originally Posted by Zevox View Post
    Zola + Snip-Snap + Mechwarper also isn't the full combo. It doesn't reduce Snip-Snap's cost to 0. You need both Mechwarpers plus Zola to create a third for that. And in addition, you need another Mech that was already on the board and thus can attack face. 2x Mechwarper + Zola + Snip-Snap + another Mech on the board = 5 cards.

    By comparison, Snip-Snap + Reckless Experimenter + another Mech on the board was all that was required for the combo they nerfed. That's 3 cards. Substantially easier.


    I really hope they don't. Control Warrior actually being good is a substantial part of why I've been enjoying the game of late, as opposed to finding it miserable last year, when combo decks were so dominant.

    And there's no avoiding netdecking. People want to share what they learn about the game, want to know what wins so they can play that, and the internet allows them to do that quickly and easily. It's human nature and unavoidable for a game like this, you really just have to accept it.

    Yeah, I vastly prefer control being good rather than combo.

    This is way better than say the highlander priests from a while back.

  16. - Top - End - #376
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 23: The Evil League of EVIL

    I don't mind control in general, well not as much; but I dislike when particular decks/cards seem too powerful, or have too many obnoxiously good tools for which there are an inadequate amount of counters.
    I'm also unfond, or at least wary, of uncounterable game-warping legendaries.

    I agree with the dislike of combo.
    Last edited by zlefin; 2019-05-26 at 02:06 PM.
    A neat custom class for 3.5 system
    http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=94616

    A good set of benchmarks for PF/3.5
    https://rpgwillikers.wordpress.com/2...y-the-numbers/

    An alternate craft point system I made for 3.5
    http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...t-Point-system

  17. - Top - End - #377
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 23: The Evil League of EVIL

    Well, since no one else is saying it, i like combo and alternate win conditions.

    I love to occasionally jump into Wild with my awesome Reno Freeze mage, until my opponent plays River crocolisk because this is rank 20, and I feel sad
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    Quote Originally Posted by zlefin View Post
    I don't mind control in general, well not as much; but I dislike when particular decks/cards seem too powerful, or have too many obnoxiously good tools for which there are an inadequate amount of counters.
    Counters to Control Warrior exist. Mages with Conjurer's Calling and Giants fare well against them, as do all versions of Mech/deathrattle Hunter. Plus the sadly-still-extant Mecha'thun decks, though granted it seems that Warrior itself is the main class still capable of pulling that off. Control Shaman teched properly should be able to give them a good fight too, particularly since Shaman can still get double Elysiana (via Shudderwock) where Warrior cannot.
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  19. - Top - End - #379
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 23: The Evil League of EVIL

    Quote Originally Posted by Zevox View Post
    Counters to Control Warrior exist. Mages with Conjurer's Calling and Giants fare well against them, as do all versions of Mech/deathrattle Hunter. Plus the sadly-still-extant Mecha'thun decks, though granted it seems that Warrior itself is the main class still capable of pulling that off. Control Shaman teched properly should be able to give them a good fight too, particularly since Shaman can still get double Elysiana (via Shudderwock) where Warrior cannot.
    I've actually never lost a match vs. control shaman when playing control warrior this entire expansion (sample size ~10-15 matches). Your tools are just better unless the draw is heavily skewed against you. Control warrior loses hard to all the Hunter variants though, it's heavily disfavored against both Mech and Secret hunter.
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    Anarion's right on the money here.
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  20. - Top - End - #380
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gandariel View Post
    Well, since no one else is saying it, i like combo and alternate win conditions.
    Same; Anyfin Paladin, Quest Rogue, Miracle Giants Rogue, Grim Patron, alternate wincons and weird combo decks are my jam.
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 23: The Evil League of EVIL

    Quote Originally Posted by CarpeGuitarrem View Post
    Same; Anyfin Paladin, Quest Rogue, Miracle Giants Rogue, Grim Patron, alternate wincons and weird combo decks are my jam.
    I would generally not call most of those combo. If I'm not dying from close to 30, is often just tempo or control with a weird way to murder me or secure board control.

  22. - Top - End - #382
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manticoran View Post
    I would generally not call most of those combo. If I'm not dying from close to 30, is often just tempo or control with a weird way to murder me or secure board control.
    Anyfin Paladin and Grim Patron in their original versions were both "30 to 0" combo decks where once the setup was complete they would just kill you from hand. Anyfin did it by filling the board with Warleaders and Ole Murkeye, Grim Patron did it with a massive charging Frothing Berserker.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zevox View Post
    Counters to Control Warrior exist. Mages with Conjurer's Calling and Giants fare well against them, as do all versions of Mech/deathrattle Hunter. Plus the sadly-still-extant Mecha'thun decks, though granted it seems that Warrior itself is the main class still capable of pulling that off. Control Shaman teched properly should be able to give them a good fight too, particularly since Shaman can still get double Elysiana (via Shudderwock) where Warrior cannot.
    The other really good way to beat Warrior is Mech Paladin. You carefully summon only really big mechs (by magnetizing stuff together and making use of Galvanizer), then once you've forced out both Brawls you play Kangor's and present them with a board they cannot deal with. Having a Mech on board that can tank a Boom-enabled Omega Devastator without dying is a joyous feeling.

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    Default Re: Hearthstone 23: The Evil League of EVIL

    I was actually having some fun with mech paladin yesterday... Then I ran into a rogue who pulled polymorph off henchclan sneak, followed by another who ran double vanish double sap. I was just done with hearthstone for the day after that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anarion View Post
    I've actually never lost a match vs. control shaman when playing control warrior this entire expansion (sample size ~10-15 matches). Your tools are just better unless the draw is heavily skewed against you.
    The thing about that matchup is that most Control Shamans on ladder tech more against aggro, which leaves them quite vulnerable to Control Warrior. Running Shaman's cheap removal spells, Lightning Storms, Pyromancers, MCTs, Witch's Brews, etc doesn't do much to Warrior, and even weapon removal is a bit less important against them than against Rogue, since many only run Weapons Project. A Control Shaman teched against Warrior would be running less of that and more big minions, powerful battlecries for Shudderwock to copy, Elysiana. Or it would just be more like the Big Shaman deck that was running around for a little bit earlier in the meta, the one with Muckmorphers + Eureka to cheat out a lot of big threats.

    Quote Originally Posted by Manticoran View Post
    I would generally not call most of those combo. If I'm not dying from close to 30, is often just tempo or control with a weird way to murder me or secure board control.
    Anyfin Paladin very much was a combo deck. Grim Patron was originally, and never really shifted too far away from that, it just lost the ability to charge you with its Patrons. Quest Rogue basically was, since it was nearly unstoppable once the quest was finished, and could mount a lot of burst with charging 1-drops like Stonetusk Boar and Southsea Deckhand plus bounce effects.

    Miracle Giants Rogue I'm not familiar with off the top of my head, though, can't speak to that one. Though anything taking the "Miracle" name most likely is some form of combo deck, every incarnation of that I can think of has been.
    Last edited by Zevox; 2019-05-27 at 11:39 AM.
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    "We each decide our own sense of right and wrong. The rest, I leave to my sword." - Yuri Lowell, Tales of Vesperia

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    Default Re: Hearthstone 23: The Evil League of EVIL

    Miracle Giants was a variant of Miracle Rogue that used Valeera and Arcane Giant along with Vanish to play out a 0-mana 8/8, play an echo giant, then do it again next turn and Vanish the board away so that you could keep putting 8/8s on the board turn after turn, or some variant of that. Sort of a more convoluted version of Nomi Priest.

    It wasn't an OTK, and it wound up being pretty grindy, but it felt weird and combo-esque in how it assembled.
    Last edited by CarpeGuitarrem; 2019-05-27 at 04:13 PM.

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    Default Re: Hearthstone 23: The Evil League of EVIL

    I miss Anyfin being playable. It was one of the most fun decks to play; using your murlocs as removal and trying to keep the board clear until turn 10 made the whole game feel high pressure.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tvtyrant View Post
    I miss Anyfin being playable. It was one of the most fun decks to play; using your murlocs as removal and trying to keep the board clear until turn 10 made the whole game feel high pressure.
    You also had some interesting calculations surrounding how to get lethal, sometimes. Either because you didn't have a key murloc, or because there was a taunt to get through.

    It got REALLY interesting with a mirror match, both sides counting dead murlocs and making sure they weren't giving their opponent a winning Anyfin.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarpeGuitarrem View Post
    You also had some interesting calculations surrounding how to get lethal, sometimes. Either because you didn't have a key murloc, or because there was a taunt to get through.

    It got REALLY interesting with a mirror match, both sides counting dead murlocs and making sure they weren't giving their opponent a winning Anyfin.
    Or having murlocs on the field, which gave their creatures boosts. I have some pictures of the insane board states murlocs vs murlocs had back in the day.

    The game was also less built around good stuff 2for1s then, I remember when ivory knight came out and considering it big value.
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 23: The Evil League of EVIL

    Quote Originally Posted by CarpeGuitarrem View Post
    Zola+Snip-Snap+Mechwarper is a three-card combo, not a five-card combo, that requires two copies of Mechwarper.

    All versions of the OTK already require you to have a mech in play.
    You need both Mechwarpers, so it's a 4 card combo in hand. The Reckless Experimenter infinite only required 2 cards in hand, one of which you could tutor on curve with Dead Ringer.

    Wild has a lot more degenerate combos like Thekal + Molten Giants, Big Priest and much stronger aggro, so I'm guessing it won't be overbearing in Wild, given the craziness that goes on there.

    I wonder if the Exodia Mage shell would be the best since you get more chances to copy Mechwarper with things like Molten Reflections or Simulacrum.

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    Jun 2010

    Default Re: Hearthstone 23: The Evil League of EVIL

    Hello again, I haven't posted in a long time because I am not playing Hearthstone at all because I wanted to avoid frustration and save money. But I had a few ideas and there doesn't seem to be a you make the card thread anymore so I felt like sharing. At this point it is pretty clear they wont introduce new classes so I just wanted to share/ask about what would have been possible as Hero Powers for Deathknight, Monk, and Demon Hunter. Demon Slayer. Whatever it is.

    For Deathknight I once saw a mock up which summoned a 1/1 Ghoul with charge that dies at the end of the turn. My own idea would be 2 Mana: Freeze target character. And give Deathknight some of those weak freeze themed cards. As for Monk, the only idea I have is 2 Mana: Return a minion you control to your hand. Maybe with an additional benefit like give it +1/+1. As for the last class. I have no idea.
    DEGENERATION 86: Copy this into your sig and subtract 1 from the degeneration when you first see it. This is an antisocial experiment.

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