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  1. - Top - End - #31
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 23: The Evil League of EVIL

    Quote Originally Posted by Gandariel View Post
    Yes, but it's still Blizzard's decision, they stated it more than once (and proved it by printing Witch's brew).
    Nobody is arguing against that, so that's beside the point. The contention is that it is an extremely poor, nonsensical decision. It is more confusing to refer to the exact same mechanic in different ways on different cards, and keywords are not difficult to learn considering the game will explain them to you just by highlighting the card they're on.

    Quote Originally Posted by PraetorDragoon View Post
    the twenty-second thread, Hearthstone 23. Hmmmm.
    D'oh, forgot to edit that when I posted the new thread. Fixed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Requizen View Post
    I for one am ready for the rotation.

    I think my last ~12 games have been about 8 Odd Mages for some godforsaken reason. Please get rid of Baku sooner.
    I am as well, though Baku is on the short list of things I'll miss (with Gen, Frost Lich Jaina, Bloodreaver Gul'dan, and a handful of Un'goro cards like Stonehill Defender). I am very ready for all of the OTK decks to die one thousand deaths and for Deathstalker Rexxar to never trouble me again, though.

    Speaking of, general thoughts on the expansion/coming meta period, anyone?

    Personally, I'm split between hope and fear. With all of the value cards the set is adding I'm hoping that we might finally get a midrange-to-control dominated, value-oriented meta, unsullied by crazy OTK decks that just auto-win against control decks. But I fear that the very strong cards they revealed for Secret Paladin and Murloc Shaman in that last batch of cards, coupled with Beast Hunter still being mostly intact, will lead to a more aggressive, midrange-at-slowest meta, and most or all of those beautiful value cards will fall by the wayside.

    I'm most looking forward to seeing a new Control Warrior take shape, and hoping Control Shaman and a Plot Twist-using Control Warlock work out. I'd also really love it if Dragon Paladin could be a real thing, but I think the support they gave that was too tepid, and it'll be tier 3 tops - very disappointed they chose to push so many Secret Paladin cards instead of giving that more help.

    I sadly think Mage got the shaft in the end here. Kalecgos is great, and maybe the small spell cards will work out for a tempo Mage, but their value cards just don't look good enough without Khadgar (particularly since they did not get a new 6-drop class card for Power of Creation to discover, so it's stuck discovering 3/3s and 5/5s more often than it should), and one legendary won't make that work I think. Plus they got nothing to help with the survivability issues they're sure to have with the loss of Frost Lich Jaina and Arcane Artificer. We'll be waiting for future expansions to see Kalecgos actually doing anything, I fear.

    Druid I think is Token or bust. Maybe the healing synergy stuff will work out, but I think that's a long shot, I really don't think they've got quite enough good ways to heal for it. And Rogue's in a weird spot where the support they got for the Thief archetype looks quite good, but it's not clear what kind of deck that makes, and the other stuff they got is value-oriented, but they've never actually been able to support a value/control deck before, and the weaknesses that have prevented that from happening haven't really changed, so I'm not sure how things work out for them.

    And Priest, I have zero faith in Silence Priest, but Control Priest with the new Resurrection cards may have potential, particularly since if Catrina Muerte dies and is then brought back via Mass Resurrection, she could start resurrecting herself, which would be crazy. Definitely an iffy deck, but if it can avoid running small minions, it might work out.
    Last edited by Zevox; 2019-04-04 at 04:59 PM.
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  2. - Top - End - #32
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 23: The Evil League of EVIL

    I rather like having matches that are quick, it makes laddering easier...

    Isn't baku one of the things that slows down aggro? It rotating strikes me as a problem for wanting a midrange format.
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  3. - Top - End - #33
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 23: The Evil League of EVIL

    Quote Originally Posted by Tvtyrant View Post
    I rather like having matches that are quick, it makes laddering easier...

    Isn't baku one of the things that slows down aggro? It rotating strikes me as a problem for wanting a midrange format.
    Only in Warrior. In every other class that uses him, Baku is enabling a powerful aggro deck: Odd Paladin, Odd Rogue, and Odd Secret Mage are all the most aggressive decks in the meta right now.
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  4. - Top - End - #34
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 23: The Evil League of EVIL

    One of the things that makes me hesitant about Control Priest is the loss of Spirit Lash and Psychic Scream, along with Shadow Visions making the AoE that remains harder to use in time to counter Aggro. That said, Convincing Infiltrator and Tunnel Blaster just might act as good enough cards both as a speed bump against Aggro and as good Resurrect targets.
    Last edited by Geno9999; 2019-04-04 at 08:02 PM.
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  5. - Top - End - #35
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 23: The Evil League of EVIL

    Speaking of Priest, and the new meta, just came across this Firebat's video:
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    Seems like we're back at goofy Priest shenanigans. Don't think it's gonna be this obtuse post rotation, but it's the sort of play I enjoy doing with the class. The wackier, the better :D
    Last edited by heronbpv; 2019-04-04 at 08:39 PM.
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  6. - Top - End - #36
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 23: The Evil League of EVIL

    So, regarding our quiz (which everyone's invited to join! 8 answers so far!)...

    Here are my votes and reasoning!

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    Keeper Stalladris: 5 stars
    Just too good, even with just one activation, and the baseline 2/2/3 is not even bad. I think Token druid might be tier 1 or 2, and this will be a key card in the deck, which means five stars.

    Lucenbark: 1 star.
    I don't expect heal druid to be a serious deck

    Oblivitron and Vereesa Windrunner: 1 star
    The tradition of bad hunter legends continues. I don't see either of these working. Both too slow.

    Kalegos: 4 stars
    I think it'll definitely be used in Control Mage, i'm not sure how good the deck will be.

    Khadgar: 3 stars
    Archmage Arugal seemed insane, and he never saw any play. This looks even more insane... I don't know. I really don't know.
    Hedging my bets by saying 3 stars, but I feel this one could be either a 1 or a 5.


    Commander Rhyssa: 5 stars
    Bellringer sentry isn't rotating, and they printed a great new secret. I feel it's gonna be a tier 1/2 deck, and Rhyssa is definitely good in that deck

    Nozari: 1 star
    Playable in Control Paladin, but i have *serious* doubts about Control Paladin being a deck

    Madame Lazul: 2 stars
    Pretty decent in every matchup, i don't see why I wouldn't add it to most priest decks (except Rez Priest, of course).
    Thing is, I feel this card is really good, but on the other hand, I feel that if my decklist had 31 cards and i'd have to remove one, this is the one i'd remove, because it's not central to anything, doesn't serve any purpose, it's just there.

    Catrina Muerte: 4 stars
    This should be the star of Rez priest.


    Heistbaron Togwaggle: 4 stars
    Insanely strong and reliable. Not 5 stars because lategame Rogue Legendaries always sucked so far

    Tak Nozwhisker: 1 star
    No immediate value, hard to combo... and it's a lategame Rogue legendary


    Swampqueen Hagatha: 5 stars
    Super strong. If Shaman is a thing this should be a thing as well

    Scargil: 2 stars
    They printed some insane Murloc support, so I expect the deck to be at least decent.. but I'm honestly not sure this card is good enough to be in it. I mean yeah, turn 7 you can fill your board with Murlocs.. but you can already do that.

    Arch-Villain Rafaam: 5 stars
    Great in control Warlock, which will always exist as a deck.

    Fel Lord Betrug: 1 star
    Too gimmicky. I'm not feeling him

    Blastmaster Boom: 1 star
    Statistically, one of these new archetypes is gonna bomb, and it's fitting that it would be Bomb Warrior :P

    The Boom Reaver: 2 stars
    Feels really good for Control Warrior, in a Varian kind of way. And Varian ended up being bad.
    Yes this only creates a copy, but I don't know, I don't think the effect is broken enough to be a 10 mana card.

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  7. - Top - End - #37
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 23: The Evil League of EVIL

    Took the survey, here are my ratings

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    Stalladris: Easy 5 star rating, it's a huge value generator and cheap efficient stats. Good in all situations as long as your deck isn't so tight that you can't make room for him.

    Lucentbark: 4 stars. I think the druid healing deck has enough cards to at least be solidly tier 2 and he'll feature.

    Oblivitron: Also 4 stars. I think there's a mech deathrattle deck of some sort, this will feature. It might or might not be taht good but will at least be competent.

    Vereesa: 3 stars. I think she's too expensive and there's too much weapon destruction always floating around to realize what she's offering, but she might still feature as a top end finisher in a niche deck to do 14 damage in one turn with a beast in play.

    Kalecgos: 5 stars. Free spell, likely to be fairly appropriate to the situation, useful body, huge value if he stays in play. If there's a viable mage deck, he'll be in it, even if it's aggressive.

    Khadgar: 2 stars. Bad stats, same as archmage arugal, requires other cards to support and there aren't very many of them and they're not that great. Holding him for the 8 mana combo is kinda blargh.

    Rhyssa: 4 stars. She's efficient and her ability is cool, but she's not that great with some of the secrets and we're losing some support cards. Her deck is probably good, but I'm not willing to commit to tier 1 yet.

    Nozari: 3 stars. control paladin loses it's death knight, unclear if the banker/Shirvallah win condition is adequate.

    Lazul: 5 stars. Effect is very efficient, offers meta knowledge. Will be run, I'm just betting that there's a priest deck that's good enough to count.

    Catrina: 5 stars. high value, will be in priest if it's good

    Togwaggle: 4 stars. Expensive to use, effect might be worth it.

    Tak: 1 star. I think he's bad and slow. I might be wildly wrong though.

    Hagatha: 4 stars. Not fully confident Shaman will be good, but she's strong.

    Scargill: 3 stars. Murlocs are cheap anyway

    Rafaam: 2 stars. Too expensive and random.

    Betrug: 4 stars. Expensive on turn 10, but immediate value with the right deck.

    Boom: 5 stars. Is Boom

    Reaver: 4 stars. This guy puts a lot limits on deck construction. Might be worth it, but he sucks if you get a cheap minion.
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  8. - Top - End - #38
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 23: The Evil League of EVIL

    So now that we know all the cards, what decks are people thinking of trying for this expansion?

    My first thing will definitely be to try and tune my Espionage Rogue to fit in with the new cards. It's just too much fun and Tak looks like he'll allow some of the crazy stuff I play that deck for. I'm also hoping for a reduction in aggro (along with an actually good 2-drop) to mean that I don't fall as far behind as I often do in this meta.

    The other one that's really taken my fancy is Bomb Warrior. It's been a while since I've played Warrior since the idea of Odd Warrior bores me to tears, so I'm hoping that a Midrange Rush/Bomb deck with Boom as the finisher will do well.

    For a tertiary...I dunno, Silence Priest maybe? That's the only other deck that looks really different from the norm. Token Druid is Token Druid, Secret Paladin is Secret Paladin, Hunter looks like they're just going to tune their already existing Midrange decks. Murloc Shaman looks more powerful than previous editions, but I've still done Murlocs enough that I'm doubtful about sticking with that deck for long. I'm not convinced Heal Druid will be a thing.

    Sadly, I think my Elemental/Dragon Shaman deck won't survive the rotation. It just loses too many cards, and no longer having Unstable Evolution removes the big Krag'wa engine that got me through the control matchups.

  9. - Top - End - #39
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 23: The Evil League of EVIL

    I'm gonna tune up this Shuffle Rogue. I first tried it at start of Boomsday and it sucked hardcore. It sucks SLIGHTLY less now, and the addition of cards like the Demons that shuffle 2/2 Rush minions and Tak could make things fun.

    But Bomb Warrior, a hypothetical Burn/Spell Damage Hunter, Smol mage, Mech hunter, Secret Paladin, and Murloc Shaman all look like they could be fun too.

  10. - Top - End - #40
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 23: The Evil League of EVIL

    Quote Originally Posted by Gandariel View Post
    So, regarding our quiz (which everyone's invited to join! 8 answers so far!)...
    Mine:
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    Keeper Stalladris: 4 stars.
    - By all rights this should be 5 stars, but I'm not super confident that Druid will be strong this expansion. My guess is Token Druid being tier 2-3, and this isn't a defining card for it I think, just a generally very strong one for the class, so it only gets 4.

    Lucentbark: 1 star.
    - I do not think heal Druid works out, nor that it takes long for people to determine that.

    Oblivitron: 4 stars.
    - Deathrattle Hunter should see play just off the strength of Nine Lives alone, and this probably goes in it. Might be a star higher or lower depending on how strong the deck ends up being, but I'd be stunned if it's 2 or less stars.

    Vereesa Windrunner: 2 stars.
    - I think there will be enough experimentation with this plus the new 1 mana damage spell as a big burst damage combo for it to get the second star, before it falls off as just inferior to Beast and Deathrattle Hunter.

    Kalecgos: 1 star.
    - A great card that deserves 5 stars held down by the rest of the class around him. It's like I've been saying the whole preview season: Jaina and lots of the other strong Control Mage cards are leaving, and before the Year of the Mammoth Control Mage really wasn't a thing. I do not believe that either the Year of the Raven or this set provided what Mage needs for it to continue to be a thing, so I think Control Mage is dead this expansion period. I'd love to believe otherwise, but I don't.

    Khadgar: 2 stars.
    - Again, the card could have been great, but the deck for it just isn't there. Will see more experimentation than Kalecgos though I think, and just maybe it'll somehow find a niche in a more tempo-oriented Mage alongside Vex Crow or the like, but the big value plays they tried to set it up for demand a better Control deck than the class will have to capitalize on, I think.

    Commander Rhyssa: 5 stars.
    - Secret Paladin looks like a front-runner to be a tier 1-2 deck, and this goes into that automatically and helps define it. Easiest 5-star on the list.

    Nozari: 1 star.
    - In a world where Equality costs 4 (and a big F you to Blizzard for that, btw) and the Dragon package they're printing got fairly minimal support, I don't think this lasts long outside of maybe people like me, who will play even bad Control decks if they're fun enough.

    Madame Lazul: 3 stars.
    - A great card that I'm hedging on mainly because the big direction that Control Priest seems to want to go this expansion is the value resurrection route with Catrina and Mass Res, and that obviously doesn't want a small body minion like this. If another form of Control Priest without the resurrection theme works out it'll be good, or maybe if Silence Priest is an actual thing and wants a value card, but I fear it might just be consigned to the fringes by the resurrection stuff.

    Catrina Muerte: 4 stars.
    - I don't think Resurrect Control Priest will be top-tier, but I think it probably will be good enough to be a part of the meta, and obviously Catrina is a defining piece of it.

    Heistbaron Toggwaggle: 4 stars.
    - This thing is so powerful that I can't see it not seeing play, despite being a value-ish card in Rogue. Might be the top end of what is otherwise a tempo-oriented Rogue or something, I don't know, but the sheer potential of playing this guy, grabbing that crown, and then prepping it out for a huge tempo swing seems like it has to find a place in the meta, just perhaps not the top spot.

    Tak Nozwhisker: 2 stars.
    - Value card in Rogue, and unlike Toggwaggle it really needs a Control deck to work, which Rogue has never managed. I think it's like Tess in that people will like it enough for it to see fringe play, but never really be good.

    Swamp Queen Hagatha: 4 stars.
    - I hope I'm underrating this, fear I'm overrating it. Control Shaman got some very nice new toys between this, Living Fountain, Hagatha's Scheme, and maybe Witch's Brew, plus it has a big advantage on many other Control decks just through still having a Hero card that generates massive value, so my hope is it can be at least tier 3, if not better.

    Scargill: 2 stars.
    - While I fear Murloc Shaman may be strong, possibly even tier 1, I think this guy may fall out of it. Will definitely be tried a lot at first, but honestly, I think he does fairly little when you think about it. On any given late-game turn you can probably play about as many other Murlocs without him as with, just because you're saving 4 mana by not playing him, and that 4 mana 4/4 statline is nothing to write home about.

    Arch-Villain Rafaam: 1 star.
    - I think Control Warlock has better options and Zoo doesn't want a card this expensive.

    Fel Lord Betrug: 4 stars.
    - Entirely because I think he will meet the "defines a tier 3 deck" criteria, that deck being Control Warlock with Plot Twist and all of its myriad synergies. This plus Plot Twist is a nutty powerful turn 10 play, it's just that the rest of the deck is more iffy, particularly with the loss of Defile and Spellstone. Might wind up dropping a star or two if the deck is actually sub-tier 3, but I have just enough faith in it to guess it will be tier 3.

    Blastmaster Boom: 4 stars.
    - I think that Control Warrior with some bombs and this Boom can manage to be at least tier 3, though it may or may not be the best version of Control Warrior, that part I'm not sure of. I do think that anyone who tries to go "all-in" on bombs with things like Upgrade for Wrenchcalibur and Augmented Elekk to get extra bombs into the opponent's deck will be doomed to disappointment and failure, as I see that as only viable against combo decks that want to draw their whole deck or slower Control decks, and likely to get run out of the meta by faster decks like Secret Paladin and Beast Hunter. But a normal Control Warrior that runs exactly Wrenchcalibur, Clockwork Goblin, and Blastmaster Boom can have a bomb or two in the opponent's deck before Boom wants to come down often enough to make him good, and the number of bombs from just those cards are just enough to become a way for the deck to turn just dragging the game out into a win condition (besides fatigue). Heck, the deck may even try to drop Clockwork Goblin and run just Wrenchcalibur for bombs, though then I fear it becomes much less consistent in getting a bomb into the enemy deck before it wants to play Boom.

    The Boom Reaver: 1 star.
    - A card you're happy to discover off Omega Assembly or Doctor Boom's hero power when you need more big stuff, but that is definitely not worth putting in your actual deck.

    ...looking at it, that is a lot of 4-star ratings. Just because it's hard to call which of these decks will end up on top and thus earn that 5th star I suppose, aside from Secret Paladin, particularly since Beast Hunter didn't get a legendary (though I think that's a very good thing for the game's health, that deck does not need help). But hey, the point of this is to get as few stars off from reality as possible, so yeah, I think I'll go with this, I'm reasonably confident all those 4-stars are at least between 3 and 5.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rodin View Post
    So now that we know all the cards, what decks are people thinking of trying for this expansion?

    My first thing will definitely be to try and tune my Espionage Rogue to fit in with the new cards. It's just too much fun and Tak looks like he'll allow some of the crazy stuff I play that deck for. I'm also hoping for a reduction in aggro (along with an actually good 2-drop) to mean that I don't fall as far behind as I often do in this meta.

    The other one that's really taken my fancy is Bomb Warrior. It's been a while since I've played Warrior since the idea of Odd Warrior bores me to tears, so I'm hoping that a Midrange Rush/Bomb deck with Boom as the finisher will do well.

    For a tertiary...I dunno, Silence Priest maybe? That's the only other deck that looks really different from the norm. Token Druid is Token Druid, Secret Paladin is Secret Paladin, Hunter looks like they're just going to tune their already existing Midrange decks. Murloc Shaman looks more powerful than previous editions, but I've still done Murlocs enough that I'm doubtful about sticking with that deck for long. I'm not convinced Heal Druid will be a thing.

    Sadly, I think my Elemental/Dragon Shaman deck won't survive the rotation. It just loses too many cards, and no longer having Unstable Evolution removes the big Krag'wa engine that got me through the control matchups.
    Control Warrior, Control Shaman, and Dragon Paladin are my top choices - that last despite thinking it certainly won't be any good. Also want to try out Control Resurrection Priest, Plot Twist Controlock, and maybe some kind of value Rogue using Nozwhisker (either Pogo Hopper oriented or just generally Togwaggle's Scheme/Academic Espionage oriented). And maybe if I get lucky Secret Paladin will be midrangey enough that I'll be able to stand playing it. I think Mage and Druid are probably dead to me this expansion, and of course Hunter always is.
    Last edited by Zevox; 2019-04-05 at 06:53 PM.
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  11. - Top - End - #41
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 23: The Evil League of EVIL

    I actually did ratings the day the poll went up, and forget what I rated at that time. We have a lot of new info since (thanks to the preview streams all day yesterday) so I don't want to try rerating, but I do want to respond to a few things others have said.

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    Arch-Villain Rafaam: 1 star.
    - I think Control Warlock has better options and Zoo doesn't want a card this expensive.
    You're right that control Warlock doesn't want this, but you're looking at it wrong. It's a 1-card value engine to instantly supply a late game for Zoo. This will probably be the only card with a cost over 5 in any aggressive Warlock deck. If they fail to get the win early, throw out Rafam and now you've got a heavy late-game to try to close out the game.

    Commander Rhyssa: 5 stars.
    - Secret Paladin looks like a front-runner to be a tier 1-2 deck, and this goes into that automatically and helps define it. Easiest 5-star on the list.
    This one I thought was going to be really good, but several people tried Secret Paladin yesterday and it seemed to really be struggling. They get an explosive start, but then run out of value very quickly. Without the reload that came from Divine Favor, I'm not sure Secret Paladin can reliably close out the game. If they get cleared once or twice, they basically just lose. The new secret and Rhyssa help prevent that from happening, but I am feeling like it may not be enough.

    Lucentbark: 1 star.
    - I do not think heal Druid works out, nor that it takes long for people to determine that.
    Lucenbark: 1 star.
    I don't expect heal druid to be a serious deck

    I agree with Lucentbark as 1-star, but heal synergies are totally going to happen because the 5 mana two rushing 4/4 minions card is -so- good. Lucentbark himself is a meme and people will have fun trying to make boards of 5+ lucentbarks, but the early game heal package is no joke.

    Blastmaster Boom: 4 stars.
    - I think that Control Warrior with some bombs and this Boom can manage to be at least tier 3, though it may or may not be the best version of Control Warrior, that part I'm not sure of. I do think that anyone who tries to go "all-in" on bombs with things like Upgrade for Wrenchcalibur and Augmented Elekk to get extra bombs into the opponent's deck will be doomed to disappointment and failure, as I see that as only viable against combo decks that want to draw their whole deck or slower Control decks, and likely to get run out of the meta by faster decks like Secret Paladin and Beast Hunter. But a normal Control Warrior that runs exactly Wrenchcalibur, Clockwork Goblin, and Blastmaster Boom can have a bomb or two in the opponent's deck before Boom wants to come down often enough to make him good, and the number of bombs from just those cards are just enough to become a way for the deck to turn just dragging the game out into a win condition (besides fatigue). Heck, the deck may even try to drop Clockwork Goblin and run just Wrenchcalibur for bombs, though then I fear it becomes much less consistent in getting a bomb into the enemy deck before it wants to play Boom.
    Boom seems like an easy 5 star card from what we saw yesterday. Basically every time someone dropped a 3-bomb boom, they won the game. But mostly highlighted this because I want to tack onto the Bomb Warrior discussion as a whole.

    I feel like the Clockwork Goblin and Wrenchcaliber package is good for any warrior, and is probably all that Control Warrior runs with. Augmented Elekk works if you are doing bombs in a more tempo based deck, because a 3 mana 3/4 is actually pretty decent tempo, there's not a ton of 3 drops that are really going to do you significantly better. As far as Upgrade, that probably does not work out. But I do want to try it with both Wrench and Sul'Thraze in the deck, since that gets you two weapons that both really like Upgrade. If there's a lot of weapon destruction in the meta though, that idea goes out the window fast.


    Tak Nozwhisker: 1 star
    No immediate value, hard to combo... and it's a lategame Rogue legendary
    Adding cards to your hand is actually the definition of immediate value. But I do agree as a late game rogue legendary in yet another expansion with no defensive tools means it probably doesn't work. The value it provides is so insane though I want to see it work. If nothing else it makes Academic Espionage even more highrolly.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seerow View Post
    I actually did ratings the day the poll went up, and forget what I rated at that time. We have a lot of new info since (thanks to the preview streams all day yesterday) so I don't want to try rerating, but I do want to respond to a few things others have said.

    [Re: Rafaam]
    You're right that control Warlock doesn't want this, but you're looking at it wrong. It's a 1-card value engine to instantly supply a late game for Zoo. This will probably be the only card with a cost over 5 in any aggressive Warlock deck. If they fail to get the win early, throw out Rafam and now you've got a heavy late-game to try to close out the game.
    Eh, the only time Zoo has ever done anything like that before was with Bloodreaver Gul'dan, and I don't think Arch-Villain Rafaam is anywhere near that level of power. In that deck he'd be more of a desperation play than anything else.

    Quote Originally Posted by Seerow View Post
    [Re:Commander Rhyssa]
    This one I thought was going to be really good, but several people tried Secret Paladin yesterday and it seemed to really be struggling. They get an explosive start, but then run out of value very quickly. Without the reload that came from Divine Favor, I'm not sure Secret Paladin can reliably close out the game. If they get cleared once or twice, they basically just lose. The new secret and Rhyssa help prevent that from happening, but I am feeling like it may not be enough.
    "Yesterday?" What happened yesterday that let people try anything from an unreleased set?

    Anyway though, much as I'd like that to be the case, even if people tried it and it wasn't immediately working out as well as expected, I wouldn't assume that one day of testing would yield the best version of the deck, so I won't put much stock in that just yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by Seerow View Post
    I agree with Lucentbark as 1-star, but heal synergies are totally going to happen because the 5 mana two rushing 4/4 minions card is -so- good. Lucentbark himself is a meme and people will have fun trying to make boards of 5+ lucentbarks, but the early game heal package is no joke.
    I think it very much so is. Druid only got the one good way to heal for 5, unless they get lucky enough to set up a multi-heal Potion Vendor, and even then that's 2 good ways tops, which is not enough. I don't think it's realistic for them to expect to drop Crystal Stag early enough of the time for it to see play.

    Quote Originally Posted by Seerow View Post
    Boom seems like an easy 5 star card from what we saw yesterday. Basically every time someone dropped a 3-bomb boom, they won the game. But mostly highlighted this because I want to tack onto the Bomb Warrior discussion as a whole.

    I feel like the Clockwork Goblin and Wrenchcaliber package is good for any warrior, and is probably all that Control Warrior runs with. Augmented Elekk works if you are doing bombs in a more tempo based deck, because a 3 mana 3/4 is actually pretty decent tempo, there's not a ton of 3 drops that are really going to do you significantly better. As far as Upgrade, that probably does not work out. But I do want to try it with both Wrench and Sul'Thraze in the deck, since that gets you two weapons that both really like Upgrade. If there's a lot of weapon destruction in the meta though, that idea goes out the window fast.
    That is again something I would like to believe will be true... well, sort of, I might actually prefer for the bomb package to fail but a more Dragon-centric Control Warrior to be king, despite how much I'd like have Doctor Boom back. But again, not going to jump to conclusions based on what I assume was some pre-release test games or something, those aren't likely enough to be indicative of what we'll see once the full player base gets to try things out to be worth getting my hopes up.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zevox View Post
    "Yesterday?" What happened yesterday that let people try anything from an unreleased set?
    Blizzard had a big pre-release event with a bunch of prominent streamers, where they all were playing on a LAN and had full access to the new set. I'm not sure what the full list is, but the ones I know were Kibler, Trump, DisguisedToast, Alliestrasza, and I think Kripparian. They were all streaming on their personal Twitch channels so you should be able to see the VODs.

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    I'm excited to try Vex Crow Mage, and try out what Rogue has to offer this rotation. Odd Rogue and Odd Paladin is what carried me to having a half-decent collection, but with Baku being out, I think the closest I can make post-rotation would be a Thief Rogue (just need to craft the Cutlasses. Not sure about going all out and making Tess Greymane though.) Probably will also end up with a Token Zoolock, though probably not the all Demon version that Blizzard is trying to push with their Deck Recipes (which, by the way have been shown with the new Patch. Whizbang will only give you the Rastakhan Rumble recipes this time though.) Jumbo Imp seems a bit too restrictive be the pre-nerf Corridor Creeper of the deck, still weighing if Imp-ferno is still worth running with Knife Jugglers and Scarab Eggs.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geno9999 View Post
    I'm excited to try Vex Crow Mage, and try out what Rogue has to offer this rotation. Odd Rogue and Odd Paladin is what carried me to having a half-decent collection, but with Baku being out, I think the closest I can make post-rotation would be a Thief Rogue (just need to craft the Cutlasses. Not sure about going all out and making Tess Greymane though.)
    Tess is one of the weaker cards in the deck, and she's really only in there for meme-ing. I think she's a lot of fun and provides a lategame push to help you beat out the infinite-value decks like Jaina and Rexxar, but she's not essential for the deck by any means. The best thing you can do with her is swap heroes and then replay all your Rogue cards in order to get a full board and draw a million cards. Oh, and she allows swapping back and forth between heroes too - like getting a Zul'jin and playing him for the Battlecry, then playing Tess to go back to Valeera. With the Death Knights rotating out, Tess's power goes down significantly.

    The Cutlasses, on the other hand, are critical. Many of my games are decided by whether I get Cutlass + Deadly Poison + fuel to keep the durability up. I think Kibler even runs a Greenskin solely for the Cutlasses.

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    Default Re: Hearthstone 23: The Evil League of EVIL

    Quote Originally Posted by Rodin View Post
    The Cutlasses, on the other hand, are critical. Many of my games are decided by whether I get Cutlass + Deadly Poison + fuel to keep the durability up. I think Kibler even runs a Greenskin solely for the Cutlasses.
    Oh I know, I've run into a few Thief Rogues. My Zoolock and Odd Paladin decks are not equipped to outlast an active Cutlass, much less one that has 2+ Deadly Poisons.

    Which makes me think about something: with the Legendary weapons rotating out, would weapon destruction really be commonplace? Obviously if Secret Paladin gets off the ground they'll run Mysterious Blade, breaking Warrior's Supercollider or denying a bomb from Wrenchcaliber is always nice, and of course crippling Thief Rogue's recovery can win you the game. But on the other hand Acidic Ooze is a tribeless Razormaw against half of the classes; Mage, Priest, and Warlock (with the exception of Jaraxxus but I doubt he'll see serious play post-rotation) have no weapons period, Shaman might not run Likkim or any weapon at all in their decks. Hunter just might be the fourth class that pushes Ooze into being a one-of tech option though, with Headhunter's Hatchet taking over Eaglehorn Bow's spot in Midrange Hunter (though Eaglehorn has shown up in Hunter regardless if the deck uses Secrets.)
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 23: The Evil League of EVIL

    I feel more and more like the card ratings are just varying by how we each rate the different classes and their archetypes. Almost all the legends they've printed this time fit into at least one archetype clearly (except you, late game Rogue legendaries ) and would be run if that archetype is a viable competitive deck. We're just taking our best guess on things like the fact that secret paladin looks a lot stronger than control paladin right now.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodin View Post
    Blizzard had a big pre-release event with a bunch of prominent streamers, where they all were playing on a LAN and had full access to the new set. I'm not sure what the full list is, but the ones I know were Kibler, Trump, DisguisedToast, Alliestrasza, and I think Kripparian. They were all streaming on their personal Twitch channels so you should be able to see the VODs.
    There were 6 total. Those 5 are all right, I know there was one more female streamer, but it is not one I am familiar with and I only saw her once popping in on someone else's stream. But yeah I spent most of yesterday watching the stream VODs from Krip/Trump/Kibler.

    Eh, the only time Zoo has ever done anything like that before was with Bloodreaver Gul'dan, and I don't think Arch-Villain Rafaam is anywhere near that level of power. In that deck he'd be more of a desperation play than anything else.
    It is much weaker than Gul'Dan, but it is strong enough to potential turn a 100% loss into a having a chance to win. That is probably enough to warrant a card slot. I could end up being wrong on this, but if Rafaam fits anywhere, it will be there. I see almost no chance Control wants it.

    I think it very much so is. Druid only got the one good way to heal for 5, unless they get lucky enough to set up a multi-heal Potion Vendor, and even then that's 2 good ways tops, which is not enough. I don't think it's realistic for them to expect to drop Crystal Stag early enough of the time for it to see play.
    Maybe not, but there's also Lifesteal and other neutral healing options. I think some of the early lists going around running Ancient of Lore or Healing Touch will ultimately fall through, but I don't think you need more than 2 or 3 ways to heal for it to be pretty reliable.


    Edit: So I created a personal fireside gathering to get a head start on cracking packs from my preorder (sadly nobody near me is interested enough in hearthstone to get to play around with the brawls that are offered), but man it was a bit of a roller coaster of a pack opening. Started with legendary on Pack 1. Then went almost all the way to pity timer, then a few packs later got a double legendary pack, before going most of the way to pity timer again.

    In the end, over the course of 131 packs, I cracked 7 legendaries, all of the commons, most of the rares, and a big chunk of the epics. 7 legendaries is basically exactly average for what you'd expect in 130 packs, so not upset, but I am hoping for some better luck from the packs I get from gold next week.

    I'd have better stats, but since the set isn't officially released, the filter and DE buttons don't work quite right with the new set, so it's hard to see things like "which epics do I only have one of?" at a glance.

    My legendary pulls:
    Khadgar (1st pack)
    Nozari (39th pack)
    Heistbaron Togwaggle (52nd Pack)
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    Last edited by Seerow; 2019-04-06 at 10:28 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodin View Post
    Blizzard had a big pre-release event with a bunch of prominent streamers, where they all were playing on a LAN and had full access to the new set. I'm not sure what the full list is, but the ones I know were Kibler, Trump, DisguisedToast, Alliestrasza, and I think Kripparian. They were all streaming on their personal Twitch channels so you should be able to see the VODs.
    Ah, that must be where Trump's most recent videos came from. Makes sense. Still, I really don't think it's wise to take that as indicative of the power level of these cards/decks on its own, it's doubful that they happened to throw together the best version of them on the first try - and some of the decks they were running were clearly just not good, like Pogo Hopper Rogue or Kripp trying a much more difficult to pull off new Mecha'thun Warlock.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anarion View Post
    I feel more and more like the card ratings are just varying by how we each rate the different classes and their archetypes. Almost all the legends they've printed this time fit into at least one archetype clearly (except you, late game Rogue legendaries ) and would be run if that archetype is a viable competitive deck. We're just taking our best guess on things like the fact that secret paladin looks a lot stronger than control paladin right now.
    Yep, that's basically how this works. Trump's star ratings are an attempt to predict how strong the cards will actually be in the overall new meta. Because rating the cards in a vacuum gives silly results that don't reflect reality at all - for instance, Nozwhisker is obviously a powerful card, and in another class could be totally busted, but we've been rating him low because we all know how things go when Blizzard tries to push value/control Rogue despite them having little healing, no non-neutral taunt, and few and bad AoE options.

    Quote Originally Posted by Geno9999 View Post
    Which makes me think about something: with the Legendary weapons rotating out, would weapon destruction really be commonplace? Obviously if Secret Paladin gets off the ground they'll run Mysterious Blade, breaking Warrior's Supercollider or denying a bomb from Wrenchcaliber is always nice, and of course crippling Thief Rogue's recovery can win you the game. But on the other hand Acidic Ooze is a tribeless Razormaw against half of the classes; Mage, Priest, and Warlock (with the exception of Jaraxxus but I doubt he'll see serious play post-rotation) have no weapons period, Shaman might not run Likkim or any weapon at all in their decks. Hunter just might be the fourth class that pushes Ooze into being a one-of tech option though, with Headhunter's Hatchet taking over Eaglehorn Bow's spot in Midrange Hunter (though Eaglehorn has shown up in Hunter regardless if the deck uses Secrets.)
    Eh, most of the legendary weapons haven't seen much play in a while anyway. Occasionally you ran into a non-Even Control Warlock who had theirs, or a Spell Hunter who had Rhok'delar (which is hardly the most important one to destroy), but I think that's the most I've seen of them in quite some time. Valy'nyr up until Even Paladin got hit hard by he Equality nerf, but the answer to that was always silencing the buffed minion, not destroying the weapon. Yet despite that, weapon destruction has remained a fairly common tech. I think that as long as we've got weapons-using classes like Hunter and Warrior being generally common, it'll be worth running some weapon destruction. Definitely if Secret Paladin is common, breaking a Mysterious Blade and getting a body out at the same time would be a big deal.

    Pity that Gluttonous Ooze is rotating, it's so much better than Acidic Ooze for anti-aggro weapon destruction. That's a card I'd happily add to the Classic set if we could.

    Quote Originally Posted by Seerow View Post
    Maybe not, but there's also Lifesteal and other neutral healing options. I think some of the early lists going around running Ancient of Lore or Healing Touch will ultimately fall through, but I don't think you need more than 2 or 3 ways to heal for it to be pretty reliable.
    The only strong lifesteal card available to them is Zilliax, which is a legendary, so they get one of those in their entire deck. And if the enemy removes it via a spell it doesn't hit that magic "5" healing number, and it comes down on turn 5 anyway, so except when you have the coin you're not getting it out there to heal before Crystal Stag's on-curve turn.

    And other neutral healing options are basically Earthen Ring Farseer, who is fine but only heals for 3, which isn't enough.
    Last edited by Zevox; 2019-04-06 at 10:58 AM.
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    In other news, I've finally won a Rumble.

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    Default Re: Hearthstone 23: The Evil League of EVIL

    Quote Originally Posted by Rodin View Post
    Blizzard had a big pre-release event with a bunch of prominent streamers, where they all were playing on a LAN and had full access to the new set. I'm not sure what the full list is, but the ones I know were Kibler, Trump, DisguisedToast, Alliestrasza, and I think Kripparian. They were all streaming on their personal Twitch channels so you should be able to see the VODs.
    The Trump vs. Disguised Toast matchup was all kinds of insane.

    Kripp meanwhile had yet another Mecha'thun OTK to watch out for

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    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    The Trump vs. Disguised Toast matchup was all kinds of insane.

    Kripp meanwhile had yet another Mecha'thun OTK to watch out for
    Meh, previous editions of Warlock Mecha'thun were nothing special, and Warlock has lost a ton of the control tools they were using to get to that point (most notably Spellstone and Defile). I reckon it will lose out to all but the hardest of control decks and will thus not be seen all that much. Even prior to the expansion I can't recall the last time I ran into a bona-fide Mecha'thun deck - the combo decks I run into have mostly been either Malygos or Togwaggle.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    The Trump vs. Disguised Toast matchup was all kinds of insane.

    Kripp meanwhile had yet another Mecha'thun OTK to watch out for
    The mechathun deck was interesting but honestly terrible. The only win he got with the combo required walking over to Trump and asking him to skip lethal and kill a minion for him
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seerow View Post
    The mechathun deck was interesting but honestly terrible. The only win he got with the combo required walking over to Trump and asking him to skip lethal and kill a minion for him
    Eh, that's more a weakness of the deck he surrounded the combo with. It's a three-card combo (well, 4 if you can't use your opponent to get rid of Dorian), so you can do just about any control chassis to pull it off.

    With that said, controlock as a whole is weaker due to losing cards like spellstone, vulguar homunculus, voidlord etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rodin View Post
    Meh, previous editions of Warlock Mecha'thun were nothing special, and Warlock has lost a ton of the control tools they were using to get to that point (most notably Spellstone and Defile). I reckon it will lose out to all but the hardest of control decks and will thus not be seen all that much. Even prior to the expansion I can't recall the last time I ran into a bona-fide Mecha'thun deck - the combo decks I run into have mostly been either Malygos or Togwaggle.
    I'll be giving Warrior Mecha'thun a go once the set is live.
    Last edited by Psyren; 2019-04-07 at 11:48 AM.

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    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 23: The Evil League of EVIL

    The other notable thing for Mech'a'thun decks is that Combo Hate is absolutely a thing with this expansion, with two different Neutral cards being around to target it. If combo decks gain a serious foothold, expect to see Unseen Saboteur and Hecklebot around to counter them. In Kripp's video that he posted, he only won the second game because on the final turn he dodged a Saboteur which had a 75% to win the game then and there.

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    Default Re: Hearthstone 23: The Evil League of EVIL

    Quote Originally Posted by Rodin View Post
    The other notable thing for Mech'a'thun decks is that Combo Hate is absolutely a thing with this expansion, with two different Neutral cards being around to target it. If combo decks gain a serious foothold, expect to see Unseen Saboteur and Hecklebot around to counter them. In Kripp's video that he posted, he only won the second game because on the final turn he dodged a Saboteur which had a 75% to win the game then and there.
    Indeed. Between that and the drastic weakening of combo decks with the rotation stealing so many of their tools, hopefully they'll be relegated to the fringes of play now.

    Plus, if Warrior decks with bombs are a thing, Mecha'thun decks in particular will hate those, even if they are Control decks.
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    Yeah, I have little hope for otk combos, what I'm thinking of trying is something like Vargoth + Malygos +Kalecgos + Antonidas. I won't get all the combo pieces together probably, but that wouldn't be the point. instead these four cards are good because each one has some kind of synergy with each other already and whatever I get together will be something I exploit:

    Vargoth + Malygos +whatever spell I have: twin casted powered up spell
    Malygos + Kalecgos: 0 cost powered up spell
    Kalecgos + Antonidas: 0 cost spell that gives me a fireball
    Antonidas + Vargoth: twin cast fireballs
    ...and so on!

    also probably add my Ysera, because that gives you free spells therefore Ysera + Vargoth, things like that. the dream of getting a twin-casted, powered up zero cost fireball is not in the cards, but when you got this much potential ridiculousness, why limit yourself?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    Yeah, I have little hope for otk combos, what I'm thinking of trying is something like Vargoth + Malygos +Kalecgos + Antonidas. I won't get all the combo pieces together probably, but that wouldn't be the point. instead these four cards are good because each one has some kind of synergy with each other already and whatever I get together will be something I exploit:

    Vargoth + Malygos +whatever spell I have: twin casted powered up spell
    Malygos + Kalecgos: 0 cost powered up spell
    Kalecgos + Antonidas: 0 cost spell that gives me a fireball
    Antonidas + Vargoth: twin cast fireballs
    ...and so on!

    also probably add my Ysera, because that gives you free spells therefore Ysera + Vargoth, things like that. the dream of getting a twin-casted, powered up zero cost fireball is not in the cards, but when you got this much potential ridiculousness, why limit yourself?
    The thing to remember there is that Vargoth is not at his best with targetted spells like Fireball, since he casts them at random targets. If the opponent's board is larger than yours he may have good enough odds to hit something beneficial, but if the opponent's board is larger than yours, is Vargoth copying a Fireball, Frostbolt, etc even that good for you?

    On another note, I went and pre-made shells for the three decks I want to play post-launch: Control Warrior, Control Shaman, and Dragon Paladin. Rise of Shadows cards in purple, because shadows.
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    2x Eternium Rover (1)
    1x Omega Assembly (1)
    2x Execute (2)
    2x Warpath (2)
    2x Weapons Project (2)
    2x Shield Block (3)
    2x Smolderthorn Lancer (3)
    2x Clockwork Goblin (3)
    Archmage Vargoth (4)
    2x Omega Devastator (4)
    2x Wrenchcalibur (4)

    2x Brawl (5)
    1x Dragonmaw Scorcher (5)
    2x Emberscale Drake (5)
    Zilliax (5)
    Blastmaster Boom (7)
    2x Crowd Roaster (7)
    Doctor Boom, Mad Genius (7)

    This is definitely the one I'm most confident in, just due to how hard it was to narrow down what to include and what to cut for all of the good cards I realized were options. I like the thought of trying Vargoth here: goes well with Weapons Project and Shield Block for big armor gain, Omega Assembly for value, and Execute if the enemy is the only one with damaged minions. Can even be an emergency combo with Brawl, if I cast that on turn 9+ and get a terrible result, giving me at least a 50/50 to turn that around if I have no better options.

    Alternative cards for it: the 2nd Omega Assembly and Dragonmaw Scorcher (both of which I really want to get back in if I can, probably replacing Eternium Rover if there's not enough aggro to warrant running that), Devastate, Shield Slam, Vicious Scraphound (surprised he didn't make the cut, I do like him), Dyn-o-Matic, Supercollider, Gorehowl, Harrison Jones and/or Acidic Ooze (to go with Weapons Project). Could go heavier in the Dragon direction with things like Alexstraza, Dragon Roar, Scaleworm, and Firetree Witchdoctor, though then you probably cut the bomb package; could also remove the Dragon package for some of the other alternatives, almost certainly a more mech-focused direction with Dyn-o-Matics.

    Spoiler: Control Shaman
    Show
    2x Lightning Bolt (1)
    2x Sludge Slurper (1)
    2x Earthen Might (2)
    2x Likkim (2)
    2x Menacing Nimbus (2)
    2x Lightning Storm (3)
    2x Spirit of the Frog (3)
    Archmage Vargoth (4)
    2x Hex (4)
    2x Proud Defender (4)
    2x Hagatha's Scheme (5)
    1x Sunreaver Warmage (5)

    Zilliax (5)
    2x Rain of Toads (6)
    Swamp Queen Hagatha (7)
    Hagatha the Witch (8)
    2x Walking Fountain (8)
    Shudderwock (9)

    I'm sadly less confident in this one than I was before trying to make it due to the difficulty I had deciding what goes in it. Part of the problem is there's two different directions that Shaman's cards push in right now: a minion- and battlecry-heavy direction (Hagatha and Shudderwock reward those, but they're losing a lot of good battlecry minions in rotation), and a spell-heavy direction (Spirit of the Frog, Vargoth, Krag'wa, Electra, and Zentimo reward those - but so far that has been the weaker direction, and also I don't have some of those legendaries). And in either direction, finding good early-game cards is tough. Likkim feels like the class standout there, so it plus some cheap overload cards feels mandatory, hence the Lightning Bolts and Sludge Slurpers. I even thought about Feral Spirit, just for another overload for Likkim. But then that also pushes you towards other overload synergy cards like Thunderhead (which I also presently don't have), but then that pushes you towards a more midrange deck... yeah, feels hard to figure out how to make this one work, but I want to try. Hagatha's Scheme, the new Hagatha, and Walking Fountain basically demand that it be tried.

    Thought about trying the Dragon package here too - Crowd Roaster, Dragonmaw Scorcher, Firetree Witchdoctor, maybe Twilight Drake. Might wind up amending it to that direction, particularly since it provides more battlecry support.

    Spoiler: Dragon Paladin
    Show
    2x Cathedral Gargoyle (2)
    2x Faerie Dragon (2)
    2x Flash of Light (2)
    2x Wild Pyromancer (2)
    2x Aldor Peacekeeper (3)
    2x Bronze Herald (3)
    2x Consecration (4)
    2x Equality (4)
    2x Proud Defender (4)
    2x Truesilver Champion (4)
    2x Twilight Drake (4)
    2x Dragonmaw Scorcher (5)
    2x Dragonspeaker (5)
    Zilliax (5)
    2x Crowd Roaster (7)
    Tirion Fordring (8)
    Alexstraza (9)
    Nozari (10)

    Not expecting too much out of this, but hoping it'll be fun, and not get run over too bad by the rest of the meta. Fun fact, I don't have those Cathedral Gargoyles, so that'll be 800 dust out of my pocket once it comes time to make this. Really hoping I pull Nozari and those Dragonspeakers in my packs so that the cost is minimized. Firetree Witchdoctor is a bit iffy here too, Paladin spells aren't generally great, but I figure it's worth trying.
    Edit: Actually, realized I forgot to put in Pyromancers, which go with all of the spells I'm running, so cut the Firetree Witchdoctors for those.

    Other cards I thought about: Scaleworm (almost included, but there's so many 4s already...), Shrink Ray (but I don't have it, so I'll just use Equality), Lightforged Blessing (as a one-of to try), Glow-Tron, Time Out, Lay on Hands. The only one of these where I didn't consider Vargoth, he doesn't work so hot with most Paladin spells, only really good with Consecration.
    Last edited by Zevox; 2019-04-07 at 11:16 PM.
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  29. - Top - End - #59
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 23: The Evil League of EVIL

    Spoiler: Belated Thoughts on Legendaries
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    Keeper Stalladris - 4 stars: Goes in every Druid deck. Problem is that it will be hard to judge how good Druid will be post-rotation without Naturalize, their Mana ramp nerfed, and losing the powerful Armor cards from K&C. Stalladris himself is fantastic, but I don't think he'll be able to propel a Druid deck to tier 1.

    Lucentbark - 3 stars: Heal Druid just might be a deck, though I'm thinking it will be from how powerful Crystal Stag is, and comboing with Flobbidinous Floop. A midrange variant of Token Druid if you will. While Lucentbark might provide late-game defense and sticky minion, I don't think he'll be a consistent card in Heal Druid's decklists.

    Oblivitron - 2 stars: I was tempted to just give this a one star, but I'll give it two stars just because it might have a Mech Hunter deck starring this, Mechanical Whelp, and Nine Lives. So, just barely meeting the requirements of "defines a deck."

    Vereesa Windrunner - 2 stars: Will see play in a Malygos-combo style deck. The problem is, this will be in Hunter, a class not known for pulling off combos consistently due to their limited draw options.

    Kalecgos - 3 stars: Provides a LOT of value to Control Mage... if Control Mage is even a thing post-rotation. Mage just might have enough tools in theory with their Frost Novas, Doomsayers, Blizzards, Flamestrikes to burn out Aggro deck's resources, but beyond that, I can't quite picture an endgame plan for Mage against other control decks beyond "I have free Pyroblasts now."

    Khadgar - 2 stars: Generating extra minions is a rather powerful effect, the thing is that much of what you want to use with Khadgar are either very expensive (Power of Creation, Jan'alai) or conditional (Conjurer's Calling, Unexpected Results, Vex Crow) or both. That either means getting him to survive a turn (with 2 health, good luck with that,) or playing him together with the cards you want him to combo with. Fun, but not consistent.

    Commander Rhyssa - 4 stars: Terrifying in Secret Paladin, but I'm not sure she'll define Secret Paladin. Really, that would go to Sunreaver Spy and Mysterious Blade.

    Nozari - 4 stars: Thinking about it, this has a lot to do with most aggro decks being slowed down by Blizzard, both through rotation and what cards are given to Aggro decks. Don't need to Equality a board if they're all 1/1 Imps, so just play with fire, put some Lifesteal on him and rest easy. What does this have to do with Nozari? Well, Nozari is less of an Aggro counter, and more of a Midrange and value counter, especially more grindy matchups. Blastmaster Boom burst you down? Just Nozari and relax.

    Madame Lazul - 5 stars: Goes in any priest deck that isn't rolling out the Mass Resurrection package. Especially valuable in a Control/anti-combo deck just for the info provided.

    Catrina Muerte - 3 stars: Goes in Resurrection Priest, but I think the deck wins because of Archmage Vargoth. She also seems more fitting in a Wall Priest deck, with the timing of her effect, making it difficult to combo with her.

    Heistbaron Togwaggle - 4 stars: Marin Fox's treasures quite powerful, the problem being that you had to divert resources to breaking the chest, and it was completely random. Togwaggle solves this, both by being a discover effect, and with the ease of getting Lackeys and activating Togwaggle in the first place.

    Tak Nozwhisker - 4 stars: Pretty much doubles the value of Togwaggle's Scheme, Lab Recruiter, and Academic Espionage, and then draws for you. Rogue is looking to be a terrifying late-game value class.

    Swampqueen Hagatha - 4 stars: Powerful in Control Shaman, especially with Shudderwock.

    Scargil - 4 stars: Might be over estimating the impact of this card, but Scargil does offer some late-game board refill for Murloc Shaman with Ghost Light Angler.

    Arch-Villain Rafaam - 3 stars: Having a hard time seeing him in a deck, but the idea of him acting as Plan B just might make him work in Control. Not so sure about being in Zoo though.

    Fel Lord Betrug - 2 stars: Powerful effect, but minions won't stick around, so even if you do combo with Plot Twist, Control decks can simply remove him next turn. Lack of Voidlords and Blood Reaver Gul'dan is what hurts this card the most.

    Blastmaster Boom - 4 stars: Worst Case scenario he is a War Golem. Next best is good old Dr. 7. Anymore than that and he is a nightmarish burst of damage. However, this Boom lives breathes and dies on if the Bomb cards are integrated into Warrior decks. However, I do think Blastmaster Boom + Bombs complement Midrange/Control Warrior decks strategies fantastically, especially now that most Control decks have lost a lot of recovery with the rotation (Death Knights in general had given survivability to most classes, Jaina, Rexxar, and Gul'dan where IMO the most powerful in this regard.) Also given that Clockwork Goblin is a relatively cheap card to run and can be found though Dr. Boom's Hero Power or through Omega Assembly, I dare say Blastmaster Boom is worth running even if all you have for bombs is 2 Clockwork Goblins.

    The Boom Reaver - 2 stars: I'm thinking there might be a fringe Control Warrior that focuses on cards like Boom Reaver, Big Bad Archmage, and big minions in general and... have a below 50% winrate.
    you know that I'm more than just a doll do you?-Geno
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    by Thecrimsonmage and By Shades of Gray by Akrim.elf

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  30. - Top - End - #60
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    SamuraiGuy

    Join Date
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 23: The Evil League of EVIL

    Curious to see how Midrange Spell Hunter does with losing Spellstone and Deathstalker. They still keep Zul'jin, and Vargoth is a solid addition already. The new cards seem to push a spell style or at least partial spell style.

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