Hearthstone 23: The Evil League of EVIL

[Geno9999]

Going 3-2 in the Brawliseum with the Hooktusk variant of Quest Rogue I've posted earlier (just swapped out the Eviscerates for Blade Flurries after watching Kibler's streaming Tess Rogue) and already I am having second thoughts about the Sahket Sapper in the deck. Most of the time it backfires horribly by punting back Omega Devastator, Militia Commanders, Rush Minions in general, which my opponent immediately plays again to smash my other minions.

Still, respectable results so far, I still love Hooktusk's Tempo Swing of Drawing 1-2 Combo Cards and 4 additional cards.

Already run into some pretty sketchy decks tho, namely Quest Warriors that have just put the Quest in what I assume to be an otherwise normal Bomb Warrior deck. One I even saw play Mad Genius Boom... while they still had the Quest in progress, which shortly replaced the Boom power a few turns later. I mean, on one hand, Weapons Project and Wrench-caliber can reliably finish the quest, on the other hand I don't think it's better than Hero Boom.

[Zevox]

Wound up going 6-3 in Brawliseum with that Control Warrior deck. I did face off against that Murloc Paladin once, but I beat it. Admittedly, it looked sketchy there for a minute, but that was actually because he just got off to the kind of good start that Murloc decks just get to do sometimes, not because of the gimmick. He didn't draw his Lens to get Tip the Scales until I'd already stabilized from that start and had Doctor Boom out, so by then it was already not looking that bad. His second Tip the Scales was pathetic, just pulling a couple of Murlocs, and I managed to handle Nomi pretty well with a combination of stuff I had on the board when it came down, an Omega Devastator, and a Reckless Mummy, leaving him with only two 6/6s left when he decided it was hopeless and conceded. Zephrys didn't do anything for him either, he just took a cleave off it to remove a couple of low-hp things I had at the time. And even he'd drawn his Lens on curve, I did have a Brawl ready for it at that time. So, sample size of 1, but seemed like a deck Control Warrior can handle.

The decks that beat me were a Quest Druid, a Quest Paladin, and a Secret Hunter. Quest Druid was at least partially because I had a Brawl leave his buffed Oasis Surger on the board when there were five other minions it could have left, but I must admit the amount of power that deck can throw onto the board quickly after it completes the quest is just frightening, I feel like even Control Warrior could struggle with it unless they draw well. Quest Paladin was mostly a predictable affair - Control Warrior versus a deck that's spamming Mechanical Whelps, and I don't even have any silence teched in at the moment, so not a good matchup. The Secret Hunter I feel like I could have won, but I played around the wrong secrets on the last couple of turns, resulting in him getting a board that was just strong enough to close things out before I could stabilize.

Still, 75 gold, 50 dust, and a pack is better than the usual Brawl rewards, so that's nice I guess. Sucks that now I'll have that 5 gold dangling uselessly off my gold count until the next Brawliseum (or until I break and play an arena run just to get rid of it), though.

Already run into some pretty sketchy decks tho, namely Quest Warriors that have just put the Quest in what I assume to be an otherwise normal Bomb Warrior deck. One I even saw play Mad Genius Boom... while they still had the Quest in progress, which shortly replaced the Boom power a few turns later. I mean, on one hand, Weapons Project and Wrench-caliber can reliably finish the quest, on the other hand I don't think it's better than Hero Boom.

Yeah, I think it might be worth testing that quest in a more aggressive variant of Bomb Warrior, but it shouldn't be one that runs Mad Genius Boom. Or probably Weapons Project, for that matter, I don't think such a deck wants to give its opponent armor. Livewire Lance, Sul'thraze, and/or Woodcutter's Axe seem like better weapons to be putting in alongside Wrenchcalibur for a deck like that.

[Tvtyrant]

I did moderately well until this happened.

Spoiler

Show

At least the first one got resurrected seven times, I wiped four of them three times and all of them at least once. I eventually just ran out of threats and fatigued out the same turn he killed me.

[Seerow]

Still, 75 gold, 50 dust, and a pack is better than the usual Brawl rewards, so that's nice I guess. Sucks that now I'll have that 5 gold dangling uselessly off my gold count until the next Brawliseum (or until I break and play an arena run just to get rid of it), though.

Just a friendly reminder that everyone who does not actively play arena should have an arena run active and sitting at 2 losses at all times (ie keep playing your run until you lose twice, then quit before the third loss).

With the new rotation system in arena, every 2 months when they rotate out the sets available in arena, they forcibly retire all runs that are not complete, and give a free arena ticket to anyone who lost a run due to this. So you pay 150g once, and you get a pack plus whatever other rewards you win from your wins every 2 months without ever having to pay again.

[Spore]

Good to know, but I fear its significane should be emboldened somewhat.

With the new rotation system in arena, every 2 months when they rotate out the sets available in arena, they forcibly retire all runs that are not complete, and give a free arena ticket to anyone who lost a run due to this. So you pay 150g once, and you get a pack plus whatever other rewards you win from your wins every 2 months without ever having to pay again.

[Seerow]

Thank you.



In other news, I tried out brawliseum this morning. I was doing really well with quest Paladin last night so decided to try it here. Wound up going 4-3. Apparently when there's real stakes, people stop playing the jank and come out in force with aggro decks. I played 4 consecutive hunters (2 quest, 1 highlander, 1 secret. Crushed the first 3, lost to secret Hunter with a god tier start on turn 5), followed by a burgle rogue (who I won against despite him completing quest on turn 4), that murloc paladin people have been talking about (again crushed on turn 5), then on my last game I lost to a token druid who was playing 0 new cards.

That last one I was literally one health off from winning, I had run him totally out of resources, and had 10 health left with quest complete and 3 Wrapped Golems on the board generating taunt tokens. He had 3 minions left on board that I could easily clear next turn and had already survived the first savage roar. He then top decked the twin spell buff for exact lethal.

[Spore]

In other news, I tried out brawliseum this morning. I was doing really well with quest Paladin last night so decided to try it here. Wound up going 4-3. Apparently when there's real stakes, people stop playing the jank and come out in force with aggro decks.

I mean most decks require legendaries. Hunter does not, so of course we play hunter. That said, nothing, and I say NOTHING beats Taunt Warrior currently.

Shaggy's Frightened Flunky's power is just too overwhelming. In my final match (4-3 like you) I faced a Warrior. With Omega Assembly and Frightened Flunkies, the guy played FIVE Zilliax. And somehow I assume that wasn't even all he got. Never played Boom (no time I assume), and he always had his hand full.

I did everything my deck could do against a Control Warrior. I had him at 9, at 7 and at 5 life. He ended the game with 23 life and 7 armor. Honestly, I do not miss the days of beta face hunter but that is ENTIRELY too much ability to control the board.

[Tvtyrant]

Thank you.



In other news, I tried out brawliseum this morning. I was doing really well with quest Paladin last night so decided to try it here. Wound up going 4-3. Apparently when there's real stakes, people stop playing the jank and come out in force with aggro decks. I played 4 consecutive hunters (2 quest, 1 highlander, 1 secret. Crushed the first 3, lost to secret Hunter with a god tier start on turn 5), followed by a burgle rogue (who I won against despite him completing quest on turn 4), that murloc paladin people have been talking about (again crushed on turn 5), then on my last game I lost to a token druid who was playing 0 new cards.

That last one I was literally one health off from winning, I had run him totally out of resources, and had 10 health left with quest complete and 3 Wrapped Golems on the board generating taunt tokens. He had 3 minions left on board that I could easily clear next turn and had already survived the first savage roar. He then top decked the twin spell buff for exact lethal.

I'm almost certain that was me. Was this last night at 1030-1130pm pacific time?

[Seerow]

I'm almost certain that was me. Was this last night at 1030-1130pm pacific time?

Nope this morning around 9-10am Eastern, just a bit before the post.

[Tvtyrant]

Nope this morning around 9-10am Eastern, just a bit before the post.

Weird. I had an identical experience last night as the token druid.

[heronbpv]

I agree, I think this may be the tempo warrior I've been looking for. Sadly for my card ratings, the quest doesn't seem too great, but while testing it I ran into someone doing enrage warrior and it seemed really solid. I'm keeping an eye out for any refined decklists from this archetype to try out.

Courtesy of Vicious Syndicate. Can combo double Leeroy with Inner Rage and Bloodsworn Mercenary for 16 from hand on turn 8, or just pressure you on the early game with multiple Rush minions. Gonna try this up.

Also, this is the suggested Murloc Paladin list. The deck is very high rolley, so take that into consideration.

I only got the Octodaddy and the Hunter's quest out of my packages as far as legendaries go (only 22 packs total, no pre-order this time around), and I'll be saving my dust for later this month. So for me, it's the low cost to build and update decks. Will be testing only the following suggested decks:
The Bloodsworn Warrior mentioned above.
Cold Sandwich Mage. My first attempt at a Mage since I started playing the game. I used to dust all Mage and Warlock cards until last expansion...
Hyena Alpha Secret Hunter, and later a more up-to-date midrange version, once I find a suggestion. (Share it here if you find one!)
Stealth Ninja Priest. It's an aggro deck in disguise because... ninja! xD
Aggro Pirate Rogue. The updated version of Lackey Rogue, which I was already playing.
An updated Aggro Secret Paladin, that I plan to refactor atop the old Secret Paladin of last expansion (still the deck that brought me more victories in total, but Bomb Warrior and Lackey Rogue got pretty close score wise).

Also, the original article, if you want to see their other suggestions.

[zlefin]

went 4-3 in brawliseum with a generic murloc shaman, it's not a highly tuned version or anything, just easy to put together and fast to play. Haven't opened the packs I bought with gold yet.
It feels like a lot of stuff in the new expansion is overtuned; or at least a number of the cards are. I worry about power creep;

[Psionic Dog]

The brawliseum was amazing relaxing fun. Going 5-3 with a self built Quest-Mech'Thun-Shaman was so much more fun and satisfying that being stuck at the Rank-5 floor with a 45% win rate while trying to find a meta net deck that tops the other meta net decks all your fellow tryhards are playing.

Also agree with power creep. The new mid-game value generation is a little crazy.

[Lord Raziere]

After that censorship update, I lost interest and only logged in to get the free legendary quest and got the rogue one, think its worth me getting back into this game?

[CarpeGuitarrem]

So here's a glorious Kibler video...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iCC0XX48Qs

This? This is why I think the Priest quest is good.

[zlefin]

After that censorship update, I lost interest and only logged in to get the free legendary quest and got the rogue one, think its worth me getting back into this game?

imho it's not a good time to get back in as balance is a bit off atm, and there's some really annoying oppressive decks (Admittedly that occurs often).

[Spore]

After that censorship update, I lost interest and only logged in to get the free legendary quest and got the rogue one, think its worth me getting back into this game?

It is a nice bonus if you already have a Thief rogue lying aronud (aha Tess, one Academic Espionage and the basic stealy stuff).

Thief Rogue is never Tier 1 due to its inconsistency but it is mad fun.

[Seerow]

So, according to VS Aggro Combo Cleric is currently a top meta deck, with good matchups against both Warrior and Mage, and doing well against the rest of the field.

A little disappointed that the deck is good enough it just doesn't want to waste turn 1 on the quest, but man I have been having some fun with it anyway. Nothing feels quite as good as smacking a control Warrior in the face with a 17/6 light warden on turn 4 before he can find an answer to it. Or getting Ahmet to stick for a turn and suddenly having a board full of 7-18 health minions. This morning I played for about an hour and climbed from rank 9 to rank 6 on a winning streak.

Biggest sticking point is hunters. Between Deadly Shot, Frost Trap, Venomizer (which can be magnetized onto something else for the rush), and spider bomb, it's just nearly impossible to get anything to actually stick. I snuck out a couple wins vs Reno Hunter, but the first time I ran into a secret hunter I just felt like there was nothing I could do.

[Spore]

I always felt Divine Spirit Inner Fire to be the jankiest most boring combo of priest ever. It feels like the class has not evolved since 2013 if that happens.

(And my second golden hero after Shaman was Priest, so I quite liked it)

[Zevox]

I always felt Divine Spirit Inner Fire to be the jankiest most boring combo of priest ever. It feels like the class has not evolved since 2013 if that happens.

Sure it has - in that Divine Spirit + Inner Fire sometimes doesn't suck anymore.

Personally, I just find it sad that we haven't seen a legit non-combo Priest since the last time Dragon Priest was a real thing, which I think is a couple of years back now, from before Drakonid Operative rotated out.

[heronbpv]

Should we consider Raza Priest combo, or Control/Burn? Because this came after Dragon, and is probably the most successful Priest has ever been.
I think the latter, but I'm bad at deck classification. My forte seems meta-game prediction, lul! Go, Highlander Hunter and Reno Mage!.

[Zevox]

Should we consider Raza Priest combo, or Control/Burn? Because this came after Dragon, and is probably the most successful Priest has ever been.
I think the latter, but I'm bad at deck classification. My forte seems meta-game prediction, lul! Go, Highlander Hunter and Reno Mage!.

Raza Priest was a combo deck, definitely. Though I find it strange that you put "Burn" beside Control, since I'd call that just a term that can be applied to either aggro or combo decks that focus on killing with direct damage spells, not something that fits with any Control decks at all. Burn is an applicable label for Raza Priest too, since the kill came from hero powers + mind blasts, but that's still a combo.

[heronbpv]

But Raza pretty much just played an inevitable (somewhat) game, where he tries to keep the boarboard under control while it machine guns your face for the win. In that regard, I find it very much like current Control Warrior, only the latter has better, consistent controlling tools and an out-value/fatigue plan. That's why I called him Control/Burn.
But then again, as I said, classification is not my forte xD

[Zevox]

But Raza pretty much just played an inevitable (somewhat) game, where he tries to keep the boarboard under control while it machine guns your face for the win. In that regard, I find it very much like current Control Warrior, only the latter has better, consistent controlling tools and an out-value/fatigue plan. That's why I called him Control/Burn.
But then again, as I said, classification is not my forte xD

Combo decks still need to control the board enough to not die before their combo goes off. Doesn't make them Control decks, just makes them slower than aggro and midrange decks (barring a godly draw that gets their combo off super early).

[CarpeGuitarrem]

A control version probably wouldn't use Raza, honestly. You'd just keep enemy minions off the board while getting one or two Shadowreaper pings off on the enemy, winning through slow grind.

The Raza version was combo because you'd gather a bunch of cards for one big burst turn.

[heronbpv]

I do remember seeing plenty of situations where the Raza Priest did exactly that, slowly machine-gunning their opponents to death, but indeed they were the exception, not the rule.
But if that's the case, then what constitutes the win condition of a control deck? Fatigue only?

[Zevox]

I do remember seeing plenty of situations where the Raza Priest did exactly that, slowly machine-gunning their opponents to death, but indeed they were the exception, not the rule.
But if that's the case, then what constitutes the win condition of a control deck? Fatigue only?

Out-valuing the opponent and running them out of resources while generating more yourself, or winning with just big minions, or slowly chipping away at their health with smaller or medium size ones after running the opponent out of answers, generally. Fatigue can be a part of the way they win, though decks that specifically focus on that tend to be different, like old Mill decks.

In a way, you could say that most Control decks don't have a really defined "win condition," they instead play to just counter whatever their opponent does until their opponent can't fight back anymore.

[Spore]

If I may lend a bit of color philosophy from Magic (gameplaywise), I feel Priest currently lacks that black/shadowy personality it had.

Adding cards from your enemy deck. (turn three thoughsteal is too inconsistent due to the small deck sizes requiring every card to fill a job).
Resurrecting random (or discovered) friendly minions. (entirely gone except large clunky Catrina)
Having the best Deathrattle cards. (Naxx' Deathlord might as well have been a priest card)
Better silences (loved Kabal Songstealer, would kill for a Purify that works on enemy minions)
Best cost efficient single target removal and mind control stuff (sure we have the Scheme).

[CarpeGuitarrem]

The lack of a strong or consistent characterization for most of the classes is also a significant issue in HS.

[heronbpv]

@Zevox:
I see, so the core idea for a control deck is simply out value and outlast the opponent, isn't it? And, the moment they got a more defined plan to finish the game off (e.g. machine gunning, C'Thuns, Mill), then they are better understood as combo decks?
The way I'm seeing it, this line is very thin! But I defer to the expertise of the more experienced players in the thread, since my only experience with card games is with Hearthstone (and that one gameboy pokemon trading card game, but that doesn't count, since no human players!).

@CarpeGuitarrem:
But they tried last nerf round, right? At least, as a justification. Not that they've been consistent or anything, and also the lack of a thorough review of the classic and basic sets doesn't help long term.