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Thread: Shazam! (2019)

  1. - Top - End - #31
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    Default Re: Shazam! (2019)

    Saw it tonight. When I liked it, I thought it managed to combine adolescent jocularity with genuine heart. When I didn't like it, I thought it was merely adolescent. Enough of the former for me to think it was a good movie overall, enough of the latter that I didn't like it very much. I'm a prematurely grumpy old man, what can I say.

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    Default Re: Shazam! (2019)

    Quote Originally Posted by OutOfThyme View Post
    Saw it, and really enjoyed it. It's a movie about family in all the right ways, and I loved how it took the grounded and realistic approach that the DCCU has been trying for, and executed a solid film without being unnecessarily edgy.

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    I'm a little curious, though, as to who's going to fill up the 7th seat. There's only 6 of them thus far, and with the staff broken, there's no way that Billy can pass the power on - at least, not that we've seen - to a seventh individual. My guess is that it'll somehow involve Black Adam in the sequel, but beyond that, I'm stumped.
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    Black Adam 100%. He has often hovered in the Anti Hero range and it looks like the Mr Mind thing is setting up an ensemble villain group for the next movie. My bet is that he stars out on that team, but he has always been a bit fond of Billy in the comics and Billy will talk him off the Monster Society is Evil so The Rock can go make a trillion dollar soli film.
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    Default Re: Shazam! (2019)

    This is my thoughts on the movie:

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    Shazam! is the best DC movie in 2019. I saw it on Saturday it was awesome. There was a lot of action and also a lot of adult humor and content for a PG-13 movie there was a few easter eggs in the movie if people may or may not noticed. I'll give this movie 5 out of 5 stars for a perfectly good movie.

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    Default Re: Shazam! (2019)

    Quote Originally Posted by Zalabim View Post
    [SPOILER=Family]Mary: The only one who didn't get any special focus as Mary Marvel in the finale, but she is the one who engaged the risky divide-and-conquer plan, and she also tried to shoot the villain in the face with no powers. I think the point was already made that she was a superhero. It's also just a costume change for her, not an actress swap, I think.
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    I honestly wonder why they didn't just do a costume swap for Mary. While everyone else's alter ego is signficantly older and / or more muscular, her heroic form is basically boils down to getting a magical nose job.

    This series is going to run into some very awkward casting issues if they keep making sequels as the child actors start to grow up.
    Last edited by Talakeal; 2019-04-08 at 12:39 PM.
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    Default Re: Shazam! (2019)

    Quote Originally Posted by Talakeal View Post
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    I honestly wonder why they didn't just do a costume swap for Mary. While everyone else's alter ego is signficantly older and / or more muscular, her heroic form is basically boils down to getting a magical nose job.

    This series is going to run into some very awkward casting issues if they keep making sequels as the child actors start to grow up.
    DC should probably try to make decent films first before planning out some epic like the MCU. You can worry about cast problems when DC is swimming in too much money first.

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    Default Re: Shazam! (2019)

    Ok, my quick thoughts on Shazam:

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    I'll go on the negatives first.

    Maybe in this day and age we've become too attuned to CGI, because the special effects in the film were not too...special. The Sins moved and looked like video game creatures. The flying effects were definitely awkward to watch. The action's fine, really, but it could use a nice, massive improvement.

    Villain's motives were on the weaker side of the Freudian Excuse spectrum.

    The third act -- the carnival and the city battle -- could've been plotted more tightly; I think it solidly dragged on for probably ten more minutes than it should've been.

    Positives were that it was very funny and charming. The main actors of the titular character were decent in their roles. I am ignorant of comic lore, but I'll just put that each of the foster family members could've been way more developed -- and also, entrusting a what -- five year-old? -- with crazy powers really doesn't resonate too well.

    If I had to compare it to an MCU film, I'll say I derived the same amount of enjoyment as from Thor: Ragnorak or the first GOTG. A good step for DCEU, and maybe they'll handle their future films with a little more finesse.


    Sorry, I can't articulate my thoughts onto keyboard too well.

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    Default Re: Shazam! (2019)

    Overall I liked it, I'd give it a solid 7.5, maybe 8 out of 10.

    Zachary Levi was great, he did a great job of portraying the character of a teenager suddenly transformed into an adult superhero, and his interactions with the other kid (whose actor name escapes me) were great. I look forward to seeing more Shazam in the future.

    Overall its a pretty standard origin story, but done very well. Unwitting hero gets powers, experiments with powers, starts to misuse powers, comes back and defeats villain.

    The weak part was the villain. Mark Strong is a great actor, but this could not have BEEN a more generic evil villain.

    The villain had a major problem with him, which was almost the same as the Iron Man 3 villain problems - namely, a total lack of an actual PLAN. He just generically wants power, but we have no idea what he actually plans to DO with it, other than vague Very Evil Acts.

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    Like OK, he's powered by the 7 Deadly Sins, and he wants the Hero's Power.

    But.... then what? We are given basically zero indication of what exactly he plans to DO with it. There's vague indications that the 7 are going to go commit Evil Acts, but no actual plan takes shape for us to really gauge how bad a thing that would be, especially since we are given explicit information that Superman and the others already exist in the world, and its pretty doubtful even with Shazam's power any of them would be a threat to him.

    So we're left with a very Underpants Gnome villain plot:

    Step 1: Steal Shazam's Power!
    Step 2: ????
    Step 3: PROFIT!


    I also hope this is an indication that this was the semi-introduction of 2 other heros as well:

    Spoiler: HERO SPOILERS
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    It wasn't spelled out in the movie but Mary Bromfield is the actual name of Mary Marvel, and Freddy Freeman is Captain Marvel Jr (though I guess they'll have to give him a new name). So it's highly likely they will continue to be in future videos.

    It'll be interesting to see where this goes, as Mary was ACTUALLY Billy's real sister in the comics.


    Overall as I said, 7.5 or 8 out of 10, could have been a 9 out of 10 with a better villain.
    Last edited by Olinser; 2019-04-08 at 03:53 PM.

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    Default Re: Shazam! (2019)

    Just saw it, so everything might be a bit of a hot take but...

    I liked it, overall. It was fine, dumb 'popcorn cinema'. At times it felt a little bit too dumb but assuming it was kind of for kids I'll be forgiving. I haven't seen Aquaman or JL (yes, I'll get to it.. Sometime) but I think WW was better, merely on the merit of being for an older audience (I think)

    The acting was good as far as I can tell, especially some stuff came from pretty young kids.
    The beginning was pretty dark, considering the rest of the movie... And some of the drama felt very tagged on and unnecessary..
    And I wish they had done a bit more with the sins.
    And I did have a hard time taking anything serious. I'm sorry Mr Levi, I'm sure it's in part the costume but... I think I'd laugh at you while you were trying to kill me.
    Okay, I should stop picking everything apart, I'm not writing for a certain infamous Youtube channel (but come on, Sivana senior didn't age a day in 45 years? Screw your casting director)

    The final fight was... I was hoping for it but I didn't quite expect it. I was glad it happened. Though it made it a bit hard to make it work well as a fight, giving everything enough time.

    Re other DC: I should maybe watch the movie before saying this (instead of a tenth or so review) but I really hate the fact they exclude GL from the DCCU because he is like a huge part of the league (isn't he? ) I don't care if they decide not to bring back RR even though I love the man, but just... Jeez, come on, don't be such *******. BvsS didn't stop you either.
    (also, @Peelee, I hope RR is going to be in every future movie you want to see, if only for a second. You know, just to make you happy )

    Also re gay heroes: I also took that line to mean that, even though it's not definitive. But if we talk about gay heroes in general, I'm pretty sure NTW and Yukio are not BFFs, unless this is an occasion where you English speakers mean gay gay and not just any gay. (German doesn't use it gender neutral)

    Also also, I'll have to Google that after credit scene now....
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    Default Re: Shazam! (2019)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kato View Post
    Just saw it, so everything might be a bit of a hot take but...

    I liked it, overall. It was fine, dumb 'popcorn cinema'. At times it felt a little bit too dumb but assuming it was kind of for kids I'll be forgiving. I haven't seen Aquaman or JL (yes, I'll get to it.. Sometime) but I think WW was better, merely on the merit of being for an older audience (I think)

    The acting was good as far as I can tell, especially some stuff came from pretty young kids.
    The beginning was pretty dark, considering the rest of the movie... And some of the drama felt very tagged on and unnecessary..
    And I wish they had done a bit more with the sins.
    And I did have a hard time taking anything serious. I'm sorry Mr Levi, I'm sure it's in part the costume but... I think I'd laugh at you while you were trying to kill me.
    Okay, I should stop picking everything apart, I'm not writing for a certain infamous Youtube channel (but come on, Sivana senior didn't age a day in 45 years? Screw your casting director)

    The final fight was... I was hoping for it but I didn't quite expect it. I was glad it happened. Though it made it a bit hard to make it work well as a fight, giving everything enough time.

    Re other DC: I should maybe watch the movie before saying this (instead of a tenth or so review) but I really hate the fact they exclude GL from the DCCU because he is like a huge part of the league (isn't he? ) I don't care if they decide not to bring back RR even though I love the man, but just... Jeez, come on, don't be such *******. BvsS didn't stop you either.
    (also, @Peelee, I hope RR is going to be in every future movie you want to see, if only for a second. You know, just to make you happy )

    Also re gay heroes: I also took that line to mean that, even though it's not definitive. But if we talk about gay heroes in general, I'm pretty sure NTW and Yukio are not BFFs, unless this is an occasion where you English speakers mean gay gay and not just any gay. (German doesn't use it gender neutral)

    Also also, I'll have to Google that after credit scene now....
    Green Lantern is definitely still in the universe. There's a flashback scene in Justice League that has an alien Green Lantern fighting in a big world-saving conflict. No way Ryan Reynolds is coming back though, especially now that he's Deadpool.

    I'd agree Wonder Woman was a better movie, but then again I think Wonder Woman is the best DC movie they've made post-Nolan Batman.

    I think Aquaman was right in the same ballpark as Shazam, they were both good, watchable movies but not OMG MUST SEE AWESOME.

    Justice League is worth watching, IMO, but it was definitely disappointing. The problem was they tried to do way too much in the movie so probably 2/3 of the movie is introducing new characters and villains, and some of them like Steppenwolf and Cyborg just come off completely flat because there's simply not enough time to actually develop them within the movie.

    Overall this gives me hope for DC moving forward though, they've made 3 good solo movies in a row now.

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  10. - Top - End - #40
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    Default Re: Shazam! (2019)

    Quote Originally Posted by understatement View Post
    Ok, my quick thoughts on Shazam:

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    I'll go on the negatives first.

    Maybe in this day and age we've become too attuned to CGI, because the special effects in the film were not too...special. The Sins moved and looked like video game creatures. The flying effects were definitely awkward to watch. The action's fine, really, but it could use a nice, massive improvement.

    Villain's motives were on the weaker side of the Freudian Excuse spectrum.

    The third act -- the carnival and the city battle -- could've been plotted more tightly; I think it solidly dragged on for probably ten more minutes than it should've been.

    Positives were that it was very funny and charming. The main actors of the titular character were decent in their roles. I am ignorant of comic lore, but I'll just put that each of the foster family members could've been way more developed -- and also, entrusting a what -- five year-old? -- with crazy powers really doesn't resonate too well.

    If I had to compare it to an MCU film, I'll say I derived the same amount of enjoyment as from Thor: Ragnorak or the first GOTG. A good step for DCEU, and maybe they'll handle their future films with a little more finesse.


    Sorry, I can't articulate my thoughts onto keyboard too well.
    100% on the effects with you. There's some shots that kind of reminded me of old movies where characters have a conversation in a car, and you know it's green screen because it's easy enough to tell that it is (there's contrast between the prop car and the background). I'm not sure if there's a technical term for it, but that's how I'd describe it.

    Now, it's not as obvious as older films about it, but there's definite moments that I saw and said "Oh, yeah, that's definitely a green screen."

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    Default Re: Shazam! (2019)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kato View Post
    Okay, I should stop picking everything apart, I'm not writing for a certain infamous Youtube channel (but come on, Sivana senior didn't age a day in 45 years? Screw your casting director)
    I didn't notice that at the time, but now that you'd said it I can't not remember it. Fridge logic indeed.
    Also re gay heroes: I also took that line to mean that, even though it's not definitive. But if we talk about gay heroes in general, I'm pretty sure NTW and Yukio are not BFFs, unless this is an occasion where you English speakers mean gay gay and not just any gay. (German doesn't use it gender neutral)
    ...how did I forget them? Yeah, they do get the win then, even though it is immediately used for a joke in typical Deadpool irreverance.

    Quote Originally Posted by Olinser View Post
    Overall I liked it, I'd give it a solid 7.5, maybe 8 out of 10.

    The weak part was the villain. Mark Strong is a great actor, but this could not have BEEN a more generic evil villain.

    The villain had a major problem with him, which was almost the same as the Iron Man 3 villain problems - namely, a total lack of an actual PLAN. He just generically wants power, but we have no idea what he actually plans to DO with it, other than vague Very Evil Acts.

    Spoiler: Villain Spoilers
    Show
    Like OK, he's powered by the 7 Deadly Sins, and he wants the Hero's Power.

    But.... then what? We are given basically zero indication of what exactly he plans to DO with it. There's vague indications that the 7 are going to go commit Evil Acts, but no actual plan takes shape for us to really gauge how bad a thing that would be, especially since we are given explicit information that Superman and the others already exist in the world, and its pretty doubtful even with Shazam's power any of them would be a threat to him.

    So we're left with a very Underpants Gnome villain plot:

    Step 1: Steal Shazam's Power!
    Step 2: ????
    Step 3: PROFIT!
    While I absolutely agree the villain was super generic, I had no trouble understanding his motivation - particularly when 'his' sin was revealed.
    Spoiler: Villain Spoilers
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    Sivana didn't really have a plan, or any goals for his power - his goal was simply gaining that power because people said he didn't deserve it. His greatest sin was Envy. He had been told all his life that he wasn't worthy of power or respect, from his father to his brother to the Wizard (who was kind of a jerk about it, TBH). He wanted Shazam's power so he could Show Them All, with a side order of making them Rue The Day They Opposed Him. Anything beyond that was the Sins themselves plotting their Generically Evil Mayhem, Sivana himself was driven by nothing more than jealousy and spite at the universe for not giving him what other people had. He's not considering the odds of overcoming opponents like Superman because they weren't relevant to what he really wanted.
    Last edited by The Glyphstone; 2019-04-08 at 11:35 PM.
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    Default Re: Shazam! (2019)

    Quote Originally Posted by The Glyphstone View Post
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    He's not considering the odds of overcoming opponents like Superman because they weren't relevant to what he really wanted.
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    To be fair, his odds against Superman are actually better than his odds against Shazam, since supes has no more protection against magic than an average human. It's probably legitimately true that if he had Shazam out of the way, not much in the DCEU could have stopped him. The best other heroes to so would largely be ones not introduced in the DC movieverse yet, like Doctor Fate or Zatanna.
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    Default Re: Shazam! (2019)

    Quote Originally Posted by The Glyphstone View Post
    While I absolutely agree the villain was super generic, I had no trouble understanding his motivation - particularly when 'his' sin was revealed.
    I agree, there really is no need to explain Sivana any further
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    We are told that, not so much Sivana, but the 7 deadly sins wish to bring ruin to the world. Sivana, however, wants the power of Shazam, the power he always coveted, and has no need for an end goal after.


    Quote Originally Posted by Zevox View Post
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    To be fair, his odds against Superman are actually better than his odds against Shazam, since supes has no more protection against magic than an average human. It's probably legitimately true that if he had Shazam out of the way, not much in the DCEU could have stopped him. The best other heroes to so would largely be ones not introduced in the DC movieverse yet, like Doctor Fate or Zatanna.
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    In the comics, Superman does just fine against Shazam or Shazam’s rogues. Superman’s vulnerability to magic is not instant kryptonite weakness and is relative to the author, story, wielded, and type of magic. Shazam-style magic-powered fists and lightning can hurt him but is never overwhelming.

    The fact of the matter is that Superman just isn’t around when the villain displays his power for whatever reason.


    Quote Originally Posted by Olinser View Post
    Overall this gives me hope for DC moving forward though, they've made 3 good solo movies in a row now.
    Yes DC can make decent solo movies, but I feel without the Justice League and inter-connected plot lines the movies are missing something. Marvel has created a truly unique phenomenon over more than 20(!) movies. DC rushed the Justice League team up in after only three movies (where Wonder Woman is more of an afterthought).

    I feel like DC never really gave the DCU a chance to come together and doesn’t really have a commitment to the connected universe. They’ve now gotten rid of the two biggest stars in the DCU plus the Joker, plus they are recasting Deadshot. Can there really be a connected universe when they make expedient choices for individual movies without a care of how it impacts the DCU?
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    Default Re: Shazam! (2019)

    I also liked Sivana well enough as a villain. He acted strong for what he was given to do and he was intimidating enough. Was his motivation very deep? No. But it didn't have to be. 'I want to show I'm good enough' is a basic enough urge, and everything beyond that is the Sins.

    Speaking of sins (sorry) I have to complain about the bus scene.. Fine, you can't fly but you can jump and you could have pulled it back up. What you did should have done nothing because crashing into you should have been the same as crashing on the ground. I know it's comic book physics but.. Damn could I (again) not feel tension in that scene.

    And I know this isn't totally unrealistic but... Bullies who are so evil they kick a disabled kid on the ground? Come on, movie....

    Also... I wonder how much YouTube paid for that video making montage..

    Okay, another positive thing to balance my complaints: I really liked Sivana's research on mass hysteria plot. I wish they'd given it one or two more scenes, though.
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    Default Re: Shazam! (2019)

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    Default Re: Shazam! (2019)

    Went in not knowing what to expect (heard that it had positive reviews, but no more). As it turned out, you don't need to know anything about the source material at all – I loved it. Enjoyed it more than any of the other New DC movies, and more so than most Marvel ones as well.

    The parental issues for the hero and villain were surprisingly brutal. Given the silly, funny tone of a lot of the movie, I was expecting them to sugar-coat things.

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    Then when Billy finally finds his mother she calls back to the guy inside the apartment telling him "it's no-one important". Followed by "you're doing okay, right?" and not remembering the keychain he's been carrying around his whole life. Ouch.

    I loved the family getting turned into 'Shazam-lettes' or whatever we're supposed to call them. Watching their reactions to their new bodies was hilarious.

    Pacing of the movie was really good. A lot of these origin stories tend to drag, but the filmmakers managed to pack a ton of story and character introduction/development into a pretty short space of time. They spent enough time on the foster family to make the end scenes really work.

    Really good sign for DC overall. After Justice League and Batman Vs Superman ranged from aggressively meh to awful, I was about ready to write the whole DC movieverse off. Instead they're turning it around.
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    Default Re: Shazam! (2019)

    It's a fairly standard film that gets extra points for being nice.

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    Non evil foster parents, no condemnation for his mom, goodheartedness in general.

    Kind of odd that Freddie knows superhero tropes in a world that wouldn't know about them -no one would know whether superheroes have lairs or not, and so on.

    Mark Strong is terrifying on his own, he doesn't need superpowers. Also, nice coat.

    Final battles ran into that of invincible people stakeslessly punching each other, since neother of them can be hurt.


    Funny how every single DC movie people talk about it being a turning point.

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    Default Re: Shazam! (2019)

    I wanted to see it when it was announced. I have fond memory of Shazam as a kid watching the early 1970's show. I know it wasn't the same thing and of no relation, but I'll always have a soft spot for the hero. However, the trailers show that the movie is a stupid kid movie. I don't mean I think it's dumb for a movie to be about or for kids. I mean Shazam is a stupid kid in a grown man's body being an imbecile because he has kool powerz! It's too much immaturity, slapstick for children. I'm going to guess there's a flatulence joke in the movie.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pex View Post
    I wanted to see it when it was announced. I have fond memory of Shazam as a kid watching the early 1970's show. I know it wasn't the same thing and of no relation, but I'll always have a soft spot for the hero. However, the trailers show that the movie is a stupid kid movie. I don't mean I think it's dumb for a movie to be about or for kids. I mean Shazam is a stupid kid in a grown man's body being an imbecile because he has kool powerz! It's too much immaturity, slapstick for children. I'm going to guess there's a flatulence joke in the movie.
    Not a single one that I can remember. The bad guy gets punched in the groin once as a joke, but that's it.

    As people have said, the movie has lots of jokes about being a kid in a man's body, but it also manages to be surprisingly mature and even dark at times with all the subthemes about abandonment, loss, inadequacy, and overcoming that stuff. Don't judge it by the trailer at all, that is mostly a supercut of all the mid-range jokes...IIRC it doesn't even show the villain, who is very, very sternly intimidating.
    Last edited by The Glyphstone; 2019-04-09 at 11:51 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Red Fel, on quest rewards View Post
    "Is a stack of ten pancakes too many pancakes to give to the party, even if most of them fell on the floor and one or two were stepped on? I wanted to give my party pancakes as a reward but I'm unsure if it's too much. The pancakes are also laced with blowfish poison so the party would have to get an antitoxin before they could eat the ones which weren't pulverized by shoes."

    I don't think anyone would want those pancakes even if you paid them to eat them.

  20. - Top - End - #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pex View Post
    I'm going to guess there's a flatulence joke in the movie.
    Hm... I'm probably forgetting something but I can only remember a moment when Levi kind of looks like he's trying to hold one in (or push one out? Depends on interpretation) because he's straining.
    But yes, if you expect a movie about a 15 year old turning into a super hero in a silly costume to be DC dark, you'll be disappointed. It very much is a mostly dumb kids movie.
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    Default Re: Shazam! (2019)

    Toilet humour is still humour.

    just FYI, in case there was a hurdle needed to be jumped

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    Default Re: Shazam! (2019)

    Quote Originally Posted by Reddish Mage View Post
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    In the comics, Superman does just fine against Shazam or Shazam’s rogues. Superman’s vulnerability to magic is not instant kryptonite weakness and is relative to the author, story, wielded, and type of magic. Shazam-style magic-powered fists and lightning can hurt him but is never overwhelming.

    The fact of the matter is that Superman just isn’t around when the villain displays his power for whatever reason.
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    Can't speak to the comics, but I'm aware that it's not like kryptonite - hence why I said he "has no more protection against magic than an average human," not that magic is a weakness of his. The latter tends to imply the sort of effects that kryptonite has on him to most people.

    Nonetheless, the point is that Superman is legitimately less of a threat to Sivanna than Shazam, since Shazam's powers are, if what I've heard is correct, on the same level as Superman's, but being magical they actually grant him more protection against the kind of powers the Sins were giving Sivanna than Superman would have.
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  23. - Top - End - #53
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    Default Re: Shazam! (2019)

    Quote Originally Posted by Zevox View Post
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    Can't speak to the comics, but I'm aware that it's not like kryptonite - hence why I said he "has no more protection against magic than an average human," not that magic is a weakness of his. The latter tends to imply the sort of effects that kryptonite has on him to most people.

    Nonetheless, the point is that Superman is legitimately less of a threat to Sivanna than Shazam, since Shazam's powers are, if what I've heard is correct, on the same level as Superman's, but being magical they actually grant him more protection against the kind of powers the Sins were giving Sivanna than Superman would have.
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    I feel that the best way to look at it is- Sivana was a match for Captain Marvel Shazam i'm just gonna call him Billy. Billy is, in the comics, about on par with Supes- it really is IMO one of those rabbit hole/toss-up questions. So Sivana + the power of Shazam = bye bye Supes.

    Like, if he succeeded in his goal of gaining that power, he would legitimately be the strongest entity currently portrayed in the DC cinematic universe assuming they're all roughly comparable to what they're capable of in the comics. There's no Spectre or anyone like that around in the DCCU yet to fix this.

    That's another reason I dug the movie, the stakes were legitimately quite high but it didn't matter, the family was more important AND that's how they won.

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    Default Re: Shazam! (2019)

    Geez, that's a lot to multiwiote on my phone. Wish me luck on not screwing up the formatting.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Glyphstone View Post
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    When the Family is fleeing from the strip club after escaping Sivana, Pedro's only comment is 'eh, it's not my thing'. There are enough alternate interpretations of the line to not make it definite - plenty of straight guys just don't like the atmosphere of strip clubs - but it's how I took it.
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    Absolutely how I took it too, especially because it's implied they were in there for more than a few seconds; Freddy called a stripper by name (apparently "Sriracha") and has glitter on his face as he's leaving.


    Quote Originally Posted by Talakeal View Post
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    I honestly wonder why they didn't just do a costume swap for Mary. While everyone else's alter ego is signficantly older and / or more muscular, her heroic form is basically boils down to getting a magical nose job.
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    Seconded. She's old enough to do her own thing, and I thought having a different person play her was a poor choice.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kato View Post
    also, @Peelee, I hope RR is going to be in every future movie you want to see, if only for a second. You know, just to make you happy )
    Hey now, there's no need to be cruel.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Glyphstone View Post
    While I absolutely agree the villain was super generic, I had no trouble understanding his motivation - particularly when 'his' sin was revealed.
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    Sivana didn't really have a plan, or any goals for his power - his goal was simply gaining that power because people said he didn't deserve it. His greatest sin was Envy. He had been told all his life that he wasn't worthy of power or respect, from his father to his brother to the Wizard (who was kind of a jerk about it, TBH). He wanted Shazam's power so he could Show Them All, with a side order of making them Rue The Day They Opposed Him. Anything beyond that was the Sins themselves plotting their Generically Evil Mayhem, Sivana himself was driven by nothing more than jealousy and spite at the universe for not giving him what other people had. He's not considering the odds of overcoming opponents like Superman because they weren't relevant to what he really wanted.
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    I mostly agree in a disagree-y way; I thought his biggest aspect was pride. He didn't envy his family, they were terrible, he was proud of how still achieved what he did in spite of them. He was proud of being able to take the Sins, he was proud of being able to cast his family aside. His pride was what made him want Shazam's power because Shazam was a constant reminder that he was deemed not good enough. The whole time it seemed as if pride was the big motivator, and even at the end it seemed like Shazam's tactic to draw out the last sin is something that should have worked best on Pride.
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    I don't see a lot of movies anymore, much less superhero movies, but that was fantastic. Totally worth it. Also the Pokémon trailer was so good I may see it in spite of Ryan Reynolds; at least he's doing a halfway decent job of voice acting, which is more than I can say for most of the A-listers we ho get voice acting work, and I don't have to see him. Godzilla movie also looked delightfully stupid in all the best ways.
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    Default Re: Shazam! (2019)

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Geez, that's a lot to multiwiote on my phone. Wish me luck on not screwing up the formatting.



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    I mostly agree in a disagree-y way; I thought his biggest aspect was pride. He didn't envy his family, they were terrible, he was proud of how still achieved what he did in spite of them. He was proud of being able to take the Sins, he was proud of being able to cast his family aside. His pride was what made him want Shazam's power because Shazam was a constant reminder that he was deemed not good enough. The whole time it seemed as if pride was the big motivator, and even at the end it seemed like Shazam's tactic to draw out the last sin is something that should have worked best on Pride.
    Spoiler: You know it.
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    See, I don't think he was proud at all - that was a superiority complex masking his jealousy. He was bitter and obsessive - he envied his family not because they were better...they were indeed terrible. He envied what they had that he didn't - power and respect - and hated them because they still denied him that respect. He could have killed Shazam if his motivation was pride, but instead he insisted on Shazam forfeiting his power; he was jealous of Shazam having something he didn't, and had been repeatedly told he couldn't get. In a way, Billy is a child who gained an adult's power and matured because of it. Sivana is an adult who gained power but is still emotionally the child who was told he wasn't worthy of that.

    I don't think baiting out Pride by insulting it would have worked, because that's trying to attack the sin with something that is fundamentally its opposite. If Sivana was ridden by Pride, Shazam's best bet would have been to challenge it in a 'you think you're good, show me what you've got' sort of way. Hitting Envy with those insults was targeting its weakest point - the fact that it's basically a walking inferiority complex to begin with.
    Last edited by The Glyphstone; 2019-04-10 at 12:02 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Red Fel, on quest rewards View Post
    "Is a stack of ten pancakes too many pancakes to give to the party, even if most of them fell on the floor and one or two were stepped on? I wanted to give my party pancakes as a reward but I'm unsure if it's too much. The pancakes are also laced with blowfish poison so the party would have to get an antitoxin before they could eat the ones which weren't pulverized by shoes."

    I don't think anyone would want those pancakes even if you paid them to eat them.

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    Default Re: Shazam! (2019)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kato View Post
    Hm... I'm probably forgetting something but I can only remember a moment when Levi kind of looks like he's trying to hold one in (or push one out? Depends on interpretation) because he's straining.
    But yes, if you expect a movie about a 15 year old turning into a super hero in a silly costume to be DC dark, you'll be disappointed. It very much is a mostly dumb kids movie.
    I don't like and don't want DC dark. I wanted a movie that took itself seriously instead of being a series of dumb jokes and oh yeah there's a villain who needs to be stopped.
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  27. - Top - End - #57
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    Default Re: Shazam! (2019)

    Quote Originally Posted by Pex View Post
    I don't like and don't want DC dark. I wanted a movie that took itself seriously instead of being a series of dumb jokes and oh yeah there's a villain who needs to be stopped.
    Well, it's not just a series of dumb jokes. I'm not saying you will get what you want but it's not... uhm... Minions? No idea what would be a good example.
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  28. - Top - End - #58
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    Default Re: Shazam! (2019)

    It's a lighter movie and more of a comedy, but I wouldn't say it ever gets juvenile/crass.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Pex View Post
    I don't like and don't want DC dark. I wanted a movie that took itself seriously instead of being a series of dumb jokes and oh yeah there's a villain who needs to be stopped.
    It's a movie where a kid gets randomly picked to be given super powers, as well as a fully-formed adult body, that he can call on command, in a world where other superheroes exist.

    Given all that, I'd say it takes itself exactly as seriously as it needs to.
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    Default Re: Shazam! (2019)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kato View Post
    Speaking of sins (sorry) I have to complain about the bus scene.. Fine, you can't fly but you can jump and you could have pulled it back up. What you did should have done nothing because crashing into you should have been the same as crashing on the ground. I know it's comic book physics but.. Damn could I (again) not feel tension in that scene.
    So we have a thread going called "Small things that break you suspension of disbelief or immersion." You're welcomed to join.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pex View Post
    I wanted to see it when it was announced. I have fond memory of Shazam as a kid watching the early 1970's show. I know it wasn't the same thing and of no relation, but I'll always have a soft spot for the hero. However, the trailers show that the movie is a stupid kid movie. I don't mean I think it's dumb for a movie to be about or for kids. I mean Shazam is a stupid kid in a grown man's body being an imbecile because he has kool powerz! It's too much immaturity, slapstick for children. I'm going to guess there's a flatulence joke in the movie.
    You say its not dumb for a movie to be for kids, then you criticize it for its childish notions at the center of the character. On that front....you realize that the idea of a human-looking alien who gains superpowers by absorbing "yellow sun radiation" and who fights evil alongside a guy who dresses up as a bat and who doesn't have superpowers but is cool because he's the best at everything and he's really really absurdly rich....none of that is all that serious of a concept either.

    Speaking of the TV Show...I think its a shame that this movie by its success, and potential for a sequel, prevents there being a TV show based on these same concepts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zevox View Post
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    Can't speak to the comics, but I'm aware that it's not like kryptonite - hence why I said he "has no more protection against magic than an average human," not that magic is a weakness of his. The latter tends to imply the sort of effects that kryptonite has on him to most people.

    Nonetheless, the point is that Superman is legitimately less of a threat to Sivanna than Shazam, since Shazam's powers are, if what I've heard is correct, on the same level as Superman's, but being magical they actually grant him more protection against the kind of powers the Sins were giving Sivanna than Superman would have.
    Quote Originally Posted by Otomodachi View Post
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    I feel that the best way to look at it is- Sivana was a match for Captain Marvel Shazam i'm just gonna call him Billy. Billy is, in the comics, about on par with Supes- it really is IMO one of those rabbit hole/toss-up questions. So Sivana + the power of Shazam = bye bye Supes.

    Like, if he succeeded in his goal of gaining that power, he would legitimately be the strongest entity currently portrayed in the DC cinematic universe assuming they're all roughly comparable to what they're capable of in the comics. There's no Spectre or anyone like that around in the DCCU yet to fix this.

    That's another reason I dug the movie, the stakes were legitimately quite high but it didn't matter, the family was more important AND that's how they won.
    The idea that Sivana could or would be stronger than Superman, regardless of how you are arguing your assumptions about how to measure Sivana's, you are also assuming quite a few things about Superman.

    Yes Superman has been suggested to be roughly equal in the comics...but there's a point where Captain America was suggested to be equal to Thor and we know that isn't true. Superman has beat Shazam before and there's plenty of evidence that Superman holds back.

    Sivana's physical performance and feats are roughly equal to Shazam in this movie, although it is said Sivana is actually weaker and as soon as Shazam figures out his true power Sivana will be destroyed. We don't know what combining the power of the two would accomplish....it could be the combination is additive or multiplicative or exponential. A hypothetical Shazam-powered Sivana could be a bit less than twice as strong or he could be nearly god-like.

    Regardless, Superman has defeated villains "stronger" than either himself or Shazam all the time, including Darkseid for whom the powers of Sivana are nothing in comparison.

    We neither have to say Sivana is necessarily stronger than Superman nor do have evidence that it is true. The DCU that evidence from the comics, even if it were clear one way or another, would even settle the question. However, we do have evidence from the DCU that Superman may be stronger. Superman shows himself to be stronger than Steppenwolf in the final fight in Justice League, and Steppenwolf, who is a new god. That puts him on a different scale from Sivana. If it comes down to strength, Superman still has the edge.
    Quote Originally Posted by Morty View Post
    It would have been awesome if the writers had put as much thought into it as you guys do.
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