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    Default Re: LOTR What if: Boromir's plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Reddish Mage View Post
    What's the point of warping creation if you just get weaker from doing it?
    Good will always triumph, because Evil is dumb.
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    Default Re: LOTR What if: Boromir's plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Reddish Mage View Post
    What's the point of warping creation if you just get weaker from doing it?
    Morgoth is completely insane and terrible at realizing that his power has limits.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vinyadan View Post
    Instead, Sauron had much of the work already done for him. He also put much more effort into seducing others; the corruption of Numenor was probably his greatest feat. I do wonder what he was expecting would happen, though. Maybe he thought that Ar-Pharazon would conquer some territory, like Tol Eressea. Maybe he wanted him to die while fighting the Valar, as a way to spit in their face while cruelly enjoying his defeat. Turning friend against friend was something he is said to be good at by Gandalf. Instead, he was not expecting physical Numenor to be destroyed. This happened because Manwe gave up his power as "Lord of the World" to Eru, and Eru did not pull his punches. Giving up his own power to a higher authority was probably unthinkable to Sauron, which explains why he was caught by surprise when the sea overcame him.
    Yes I think Sauron expected the Valar to be the one to counter-attack, at which point he would flee the Island.
    The temple he designed was a sphere 500 feet in diameter made of pure metal 50 feet wide. Thatís not a temple, thatís a bunker. It would keep the Valar out for long but it would allow him to survive the beginning of the assault.
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    Default Re: LOTR What if: Boromir's plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Reddish Mage View Post
    What's the point of warping creation if you just get weaker from doing it?
    Because Morgoth's whole fixation never was personal power, it was ruling. Control. He wanted to control everything and make the world into his own vision. Show Dad that his vision was best and greatest.

    And being able to punch mountains is all well and good, but you need actual feet on the ground to control places, armies to do the oppressing, forges to churn out industry, etcetera. So he started pouring power into creating things like orcs, and trolls, and dragons, and so on.

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    Default Re: LOTR What if: Boromir's plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Drascin View Post
    Because Morgoth's whole fixation never was personal power, it was ruling. Control. He wanted to control everything and make the world into his own vision. Show Dad that his vision was best and greatest.

    And being able to punch mountains is all well and good, but you need actual feet on the ground to control places, armies to do the oppressing, forges to churn out industry, etcetera. So he started pouring power into creating things like orcs, and trolls, and dragons, and so on.
    Also defences. The Misty Mountains for example were a barrier to stop Orome from visiting the Elves.

    What I have sometimes wondered is: what if the Fellowship had been killed in Moria, and the Balrog had got the Ring? He was a Maia. Maybe he could have claimed it for himself.
    Quote Originally Posted by J.R.R. Tolkien, 1955
    I thought Tom Bombadil dreadful ó but worse still was the announcer's preliminary remarks that Goldberry was his daughter (!), and that Willowman was an ally of Mordor (!!).

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    Default Re: LOTR What if: Boromir's plan

    I think Sauron was expecting the Vala to simply destroy the Numenorian fleet and those on board, which would leave him free to conquer the island himself.

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    Default Re: LOTR What if: Boromir's plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post

    I seem to recall Isildur claiming (in Unfinished Tales ?) to Elrond, who was there and would know the truth of it, that he dealt the killing blow to Sauron.
    The Silmarillion:

    For Isildur would not surrender it to Elrond and CŪrdan who stood by. They counselled him to cast it into the fire of Orodruin nigh at hand... But Isildur refused this counsel, saying: 'This I will have as weregild for my father's death, and my brother's. Was it not I that dealt the Enemy his death-blow?' And the Ring that he held seemed to him exceedingly fair to look on; and he would not suffer it to be destroyed.

    Maybe the point of that is that the Ring is already at work on him, so he's distorting the facts a bit - recasting the removal of the Ring from Sauron's corpse as a deathblow.
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    Default Re: LOTR What if: Boromir's plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Reddish Mage View Post
    What's the point of warping creation if you just get weaker from doing it?
    The same point as spending money when you only get poorer from doing it. If nothing exists except beings with a limited power to create, sooner or later one of them will create stuff they like, maybe a couch, a puppy and a fruit tree. This opens up a second generation strategy where you wait until other people start creating things and then you create an orc with a sword who can stab the others so you can have all the puppies you will ever need. But this strategy only works if most people don't use it, which is why we would think of it as uncooperative and generally not nice.
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    Default Re: LOTR What if: Boromir's plan

    Quote Originally Posted by hamishspence View Post
    The Silmarillion:

    For Isildur would not surrender it to Elrond and CŪrdan who stood by. They counselled him to cast it into the fire of Orodruin nigh at hand... But Isildur refused this counsel, saying: 'This I will have as weregild for my father's death, and my brother's. Was it not I that dealt the Enemy his death-blow?' And the Ring that he held seemed to him exceedingly fair to look on; and he would not suffer it to be destroyed.

    Maybe the point of that is that the Ring is already at work on him, so he's distorting the facts a bit - recasting the removal of the Ring from Sauron's corpse as a deathblow.
    Thatís possible as Gollum and Bilbo both lie as to how the Ring came into their possession but they never lie to people who could know and Frodo and Sam never lie about it either even when Frodo is at his most corrupt. The description are vague enough that it could be either way, so thereís no wrong answer here.
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    Default Re: LOTR What if: Boromir's plan

    Quote Originally Posted by hamishspence View Post
    The Silmarillion:

    For Isildur would not surrender it to Elrond and CŪrdan who stood by. They counselled him to cast it into the fire of Orodruin nigh at hand... But Isildur refused this counsel, saying: 'This I will have as weregild for my father's death, and my brother's. Was it not I that dealt the Enemy his death-blow?' And the Ring that he held seemed to him exceedingly fair to look on; and he would not suffer it to be destroyed.

    Maybe the point of that is that the Ring is already at work on him, so he's distorting the facts a bit - recasting the removal of the Ring from Sauron's corpse as a deathblow.
    It's interesting that he talks of weregild. I wonder if Isildur simply meant that he would take part of the war booty as compensation for his father's and Anarion's death, or if he meant that Sauron was the assassin and that the ring was the expected payment from him, since he was still alive (the point of weregild was not to start a blood feud); this would contrast with the "killing blow" argument, which would appear insincere.

    But there is another example in Tolkien, where the Steward of Gondor sends the King of Rohan a weregild after his sons died fighting for Gondor. So it could have been something as "my father died while he was making you a great service/while fighting as your ally, so I'll take as weregild from you that you let me keep the ring".
    Last edited by Vinyadan; 2019-04-12 at 11:11 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by J.R.R. Tolkien, 1955
    I thought Tom Bombadil dreadful ó but worse still was the announcer's preliminary remarks that Goldberry was his daughter (!), and that Willowman was an ally of Mordor (!!).

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    Default Re: LOTR What if: Boromir's plan

    Until Gandalf broke in Dol Guldur the second time (and I suspect for most people until Sauron officially took residence in Mordor again) everybody and their grandmas assumed Sauron was dead and that the Witch-king of Angmar was the new big thing.
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    Default Re: LOTR What if: Boromir's plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Vinyadan View Post
    Also defences. The Misty Mountains for example were a barrier to stop Orome from visiting the Elves.

    What I have sometimes wondered is: what if the Fellowship had been killed in Moria, and the Balrog had got the Ring? He was a Maia. Maybe he could have claimed it for himself.
    Wow, that's a scary thought as he would also have gotten Gandalf's ring.

    Now that I think of it, the times Frodo put on the One Ring, could he have commanded Gandalf wearing his elven ring?
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    Default Re: LOTR What if: Boromir's plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarlet Knight View Post
    Wow, that's a scary thought as he would also have gotten Gandalf's ring.

    Now that I think of it, the times Frodo put on the One Ring, could he have commanded Gandalf wearing his elven ring?
    Definitely not. The Ring only amplifies what you have in that regard, and (at least until he was very nearly standing on Mount Doom) Frodo hadn't yet refined his will or his desire to rule the will of others. It was in taming and ruling Gollum that he started down the path of tyranny, as the Ring - and having someone else at hand who wanted it - began to get to him.

    If he'd tried to control Gandalf, it would have had much the same result as if he'd tried to command Sauron - he would have been crushed like a child's sand castle trying to hold back the tide. That's a big part of why the Ring tries to influence everyone who has it to wear it - unless your will and might are strong enough to master it, all you're doing is lighting a signal flare for Sauron.
    Last edited by Lapak; 2019-04-13 at 09:26 PM.

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    Default Re: LOTR What if: Boromir's plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarlet Knight View Post
    Wow, that's a scary thought as he would also have gotten Gandalf's ring.

    Now that I think of it, the times Frodo put on the One Ring, could he have commanded Gandalf wearing his elven ring?
    "The Mirror of Galadriel":

    `I would ask one thing before we go,' said Frodo, `a thing which I often meant to ask Gandalf in Rivendell. I am permitted to wear the One Ring: why cannot I see all the others and know the thoughts of those that wear them? '

    `You have not tried,' she said. `Only thrice have you set the Ring upon your finger since you knew what you possessed. Do not try! It would destroy you. Did not Gandalf tell you that the rings give power according to the measure of each possessor? Before you could use that power you would need to become far stronger, and to train your will to the domination of others. Yet even so, as Ring-bearer and as one that has borne it on finger and seen that which is hidden, your sight is grown keener. You have perceived my thought more clearly than many that are accounted wise. You saw the Eye of him that holds the Seven and the Nine. And did you not see and recognize the ring upon my finger? Did you see my ring? ' she asked turning again to Sam.
    Quote Originally Posted by J.R.R. Tolkien, 1955
    I thought Tom Bombadil dreadful ó but worse still was the announcer's preliminary remarks that Goldberry was his daughter (!), and that Willowman was an ally of Mordor (!!).

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    Default Re: LOTR What if: Boromir's plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarlet Knight View Post
    Wow, that's a scary thought as he would also have gotten Gandalf's ring.

    Now that I think of it, the times Frodo put on the One Ring, could he have commanded Gandalf wearing his elven ring?
    Because wearing the Ring and commanding the Ring is not the same thing. Quoth Gandalf : "There is only one Lord of the Rings, and he does not share His power." That was still Sauron.
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    Default Re: LOTR What if: Boromir's plan

    He'd have to match wills with Gandalf, it feels unlikely that he'd come out on top.

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    Default Re: LOTR What if: Boromir's plan

    What if going into mordor was considered way too risky? Could Gandalf with the help of Elrond and the others bend the power of the ring to their will? If so, what could they do in order to facilitate this labor?
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    Default Re: LOTR What if: Boromir's plan

    Quote Originally Posted by zinycor View Post
    What if going into mordor was considered way too risky? Could Gandalf with the help of Elrond and the others bend the power of the ring to their will? If so, what could they do in order to facilitate this labor?
    Gandalf could bend it to his will. Elrond could bend it to his, but doing it together would be impossible. It's not something that could be shared.
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    Default Re: LOTR What if: Boromir's plan

    I first read LOTR in High School, and had already been brought up on a steady diet of 'unlikely hero defies impossible odds to save the world' narratives, and I had already consumed enough fantasy to know that, no matter what, the Magic Thing is NOT the answer, and so when I read LOTR, the whole thing was very 'sure, all of this sounds very reasonable to me.'

    But just imagine how frustrated Boromir would have been, with his failing homeland the final bulwark against a world-annihilating force, and here right in front of him is THE WEAPON. But the Old Elf & Wizard Alliance want to give it to some country-bumpkin farmers! And send them to the enemy's stronghold! To get rid of it! Just because they say it's bad.

    Madness. Just madness. I would have been absolutely apoplectic with rage.

    I think he managed himself pretty well.
    Last edited by truemane; 2019-04-14 at 07:47 PM.
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    Default Re: LOTR What if: Boromir's plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Reddish Mage View Post
    Who the heck could beat Sauron at the height of his strength without the Ring? I seem to recall Sauron only lost the ring because of luck. Sauron has never been overpowered and the only beings higher than Sauron on the scale are the gods that have agreed not to interfere directly in Middle Earth, except for Morgoth .
    Maybe Galadriel. I wouldn't rule out Glorfindel but given that Gil-galad failed, he would have to be having a very good day. In theory, the wizards should have been able to defeat him too, since they are ultimately the same type of supernatural entity and their whole purpose on the planet is to counterbalance him, but it's not clear whether they could do so alone, and the most powerful of the wizards gave up the fight.

    Plus the surviving First Age/pre-First Age weirdness that doesn't count for these purposes for various reasons: Balrogs, Tom Bombadil, surviving dragons, etc.

    It seems a pretty consistent theme in the books in any case that power is bad for you. Morgoth is the most powerful of the Valar, and also the one who goes bad. Ar-Pharazon is the most powerful of the kings of men, and it goes to his head catastrophically. Feanor is probably the most powerful of the Elves and he's a total douche who basically dooms his entire race. Saruman is the most powerful of the wizards and hey, guess what. The Ring is powerful, and inherently corrupting. On even a relatively domestic scale, both Thror and Thorin both go mad with perceived power when they actually attain any. Galadriel probably only manages to remain on the side of the angels because she doesn't actually use the power she possesses unless absolutely necessary.

    So it is not at all surprising that the world is absent good guys who can face Sauron on equal terms. If such individuals did exist, they probably wouldn't be good guys, or at least not for long.
    Last edited by Aedilred; 2019-04-14 at 07:50 PM.
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    Default Re: LOTR What if: Boromir's plan

    Quote Originally Posted by truemane View Post
    I first read LOTR in High School, and had already been brought up on a steady diet of 'unlikely hero defies impossible odds to save the world' narratives, and I had already consumed enough fantasy to know that, no matter what, the Magic Thing is NOT the answer, and so when I read LOTR, the whole thing was very 'sure, all of this sounds very reasonable to me.'

    But just imagine how frustrated Boromir would have been, with his failing homeland the final bulwark against a world-annihilating force, and here right in front of him is THE WEAPON. But the Old Elf & Wizard Alliance want to give it to some country-bumpkin farmers! And send them to the enemy's stronghold! To get rid of it! Just because they say it's bad.

    Madness. Just madness. I would have been absolutely apoplectic with rage.

    I think he managed himself pretty well.
    Boromir was the first son of the ruler of Gondor, most probably trained from birth to one day rule too. That heavily implies he had to know how to control his temper, in particular when in the presence of other powerful people.

    Best to keep your rage concealed and wait for the right moment to unleash it. Like Boromir probably only joined the fellowship to wait for an opening where he could grab the ring and make a run for it, and he does indeed eventually fall to temptation, only to realize it was indeed too dangerous to use.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aedilred View Post
    It seems a pretty consistent theme in the books in any case that power is bad for you. Morgoth is the most powerful of the Valar, and also the one who goes bad. Ar-Pharazon is the most powerful of the kings of men, and it goes to his head catastrophically. Feanor is probably the most powerful of the Elves and he's a total douche who basically dooms his entire race. Saruman is the most powerful of the wizards and hey, guess what. The Ring is powerful, and inherently corrupting. On even a relatively domestic scale, both Thror and Thorin both go mad with perceived power when they actually attain any. Galadriel probably only manages to remain on the side of the angels because she doesn't actually use the power she possesses unless absolutely necessary.

    So it is not at all surprising that the world is absent good guys who can face Sauron on equal terms. If such individuals did exist, they probably wouldn't be good guys, or at least not for long.
    Doesn't that raise the problem that once you take out the big bad, the next strongest in line should become the new big bad? How long until Gandalf or Galadriel become corrupt after Sauron isn't there anymore?

    Also would've be pretty funny if some even bigger bad had shown up before only for Sauron to go all heroic.
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    ...so we built a five millionth, three hundreth, twenty first one. That one burned down, fell over, then got eaten by the snarl, but the five millionth, three hundreth, and twenty second one stayed up! Or at least, it has been until now."

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    Default Re: LOTR What if: Boromir's plan

    Quote Originally Posted by deuterio12 View Post
    Boromir was the first son of the ruler of Gondor, most probably trained from birth to one day rule too. That heavily implies he had to know how to control his temper, in particular when in the presence of other powerful people.

    Best to keep your rage concealed and wait for the right moment to unleash it. Like Boromir probably only joined the fellowship to wait for an opening where he could grab the ring and make a run for it, and he does indeed eventually fall to temptation, only to realize it was indeed too dangerous to use.



    Doesn't that raise the problem that once you take out the big bad, the next strongest in line should become the new big bad? How long until Gandalf or Galadriel become corrupt after Sauron isn't there anymore?

    Also would've be pretty funny if some even bigger bad had shown up before only for Sauron to go all heroic.
    Sauron was, among other things, a loyal toady. Or as the Professor put it (paraphrasing), he retained the facility of recognizing and serving that which was greater than himself.
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    Default Re: LOTR What if: Boromir's plan

    Quote Originally Posted by deuterio12 View Post
    Boromir was the first son of the ruler of Gondor, most probably trained from birth to one day rule too. That heavily implies he had to know how to control his temper, in particular when in the presence of other powerful people.

    Best to keep your rage concealed and wait for the right moment to unleash it. Like Boromir probably only joined the fellowship to wait for an opening where he could grab the ring and make a run for it, and he does indeed eventually fall to temptation, only to realize it was indeed too dangerous to use.
    I think this is uncharitable to Boromir, but it's been a while since I read the books.

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    Default Re: LOTR What if: Boromir's plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Vinyadan View Post
    "The Mirror of Galadriel":

    `I would ask one thing before we go,' said Frodo, `a thing which I often meant to ask Gandalf in Rivendell. I am permitted to wear the One Ring: why cannot I see all the others and know the thoughts of those that wear them? '

    `You have not tried,' she said. `Only thrice have you set the Ring upon your finger since you knew what you possessed. Do not try! It would destroy you. Did not Gandalf tell you that the rings give power according to the measure of each possessor? Before you could use that power you would need to become far stronger, and to train your will to the domination of others. Yet even so, as Ring-bearer and as one that has borne it on finger and seen that which is hidden, your sight is grown keener. You have perceived my thought more clearly than many that are accounted wise. You saw the Eye of him that holds the Seven and the Nine. And did you not see and recognize the ring upon my finger? Did you see my ring? ' she asked turning again to Sam.
    Thanks, guys. Despite reading it multiple times, there is so much I forget.

    Oh well. Time to re-read LOTR.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lethologica View Post
    I think this is uncharitable to Boromir, but it's been a while since I read the books.
    Well as pointed out he had the best of intentions, he just wanted to protect his home and people while the whole plan of handing out the artifact of doom to the country bumpkins and expect them to infiltrate the main enemy stronghold guarded by zillions of orcs and plenty of monsters (one does not simply walk into Mordor) did seem like pure suicidical madness.

    Boromir's role is basically being the good guy who falls in despair/temptation, which is reasonable when he's the one who grew up closer to Mordor and spent a good chunk of his life fighting Sauron's forces head on. None of the other fellowship members ever consider taking the ring for themselves (Gandalf in particular goes to great lenths to avoid even touching it) besides Sam, and that's only after he thinks Frodo is dead, followed by Sam being strongwilled enough to give the ring back when he found out Frodo was alive after all.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Of Mantas View Post
    "You know, Durkon, I built this planet up from nothing. When I started here, all there was was a snarl. All the other gods said we were daft to build a planet over a snarl, but I built it all the same, just to show then. It got eaten by the snarl...

    ...so we built a five millionth, three hundreth, twenty first one. That one burned down, fell over, then got eaten by the snarl, but the five millionth, three hundreth, and twenty second one stayed up! Or at least, it has been until now."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aedilred View Post
    Maybe Galadriel. I wouldn't rule out Glorfindel but given that Gil-galad failed, he would have to be having a very good day. In theory, the wizards should have been able to defeat him too, since they are ultimately the same type of supernatural entity and their whole purpose on the planet is to counterbalance him, but it's not clear whether they could do so alone, and the most powerful of the wizards gave up the fight.

    Plus the surviving First Age/pre-First Age weirdness that doesn't count for these purposes for various reasons: Balrogs, Tom Bombadil, surviving dragons, etc.

    It seems a pretty consistent theme in the books in any case that power is bad for you. Morgoth is the most powerful of the Valar, and also the one who goes bad. Ar-Pharazon is the most powerful of the kings of men, and it goes to his head catastrophically. Feanor is probably the most powerful of the Elves and he's a total douche who basically dooms his entire race. Saruman is the most powerful of the wizards and hey, guess what. The Ring is powerful, and inherently corrupting. On even a relatively domestic scale, both Thror and Thorin both go mad with perceived power when they actually attain any. Galadriel probably only manages to remain on the side of the angels because she doesn't actually use the power she possesses unless absolutely necessary.

    So it is not at all surprising that the world is absent good guys who can face Sauron on equal terms. If such individuals did exist, they probably wouldn't be good guys, or at least not for long.
    According to Gandalf Glorfindel and Aragorn together wouldnít be enough to stop the Nine Black Riders. Sauron still holds the Nine Rings of Power and the last three of the Seven Rings. None of the characters have any chance against him in magical combat (and even in physical since he would probably cheat anyway) even without the Ring. Gandalf explicitly tells Gimli that he is the most dangerous person he will ever meet unless he has the misfortune of meeting Sauron.

    Sauronís defeat to Huan is often brought up as an indicator that he isnít that personally powerful but it is worth remembering that Lýthien (the girl who put Morgoth and his entire court to sleep once) cast her magic sleep hair cloak on him right at the beginning of the fight and he still managed to knock her out by sheer hatred [g]and[/g] give Huan his worst fight of the night.

    Smaug was the last of the Great Dragons and even the fire of the greatest of them all (Ancalgon the Black) wouldnít be enough to melt the Ring so I think he is more powerful than they are (not in a physical fight though).

    Itís implied in the Silmarillion that Gandalf was always more powerful than Saruman.

    I always took the presence of Black Uruks of Mordor within Moria as a sign that Durinís Bane (the Balrog) had submitted to Sauronís authority. I mean they lived almost next to each other for centuries.

    Itís not power that is bad for you, many characters are plenty powerful (Gandalf, Elrond, Aragorn, Dažn, Thingol, Elendil, Ešrendil, etc., etc.) itís the desire for more power.
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  26. - Top - End - #56
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    Default Re: LOTR What if: Boromir's plan

    I've always been too confused about the powers of the One to be certain what anyone else could do with it.

    Sauron- some sort of power amplifier maybe, at least in the movies (book Sauron could easily have been symbollic of evil's watchful eye rather than a physical entity)

    Gollum-invisibility on a creature that in the Hobbit we know hobbit-like beings are good at hiding, so maybe power amplification?

    Galadriel- she claims it would essentially twist her motives while still adhering to them- so... power amplification?

    So, for humans, maybe it'd make them stubborn? I don't really know how it'd amplify Boromir's Boromirness beyond making him more war-hungry?
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  27. - Top - End - #57
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    Default Re: LOTR What if: Boromir's plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Malphegor View Post
    I've always been too confused about the powers of the One to be certain what anyone else could do with it.

    Sauron- some sort of power amplifier maybe, at least in the movies (book Sauron could easily have been symbollic of evil's watchful eye rather than a physical entity)

    Gollum-invisibility on a creature that in the Hobbit we know hobbit-like beings are good at hiding, so maybe power amplification?

    Galadriel- she claims it would essentially twist her motives while still adhering to them- so... power amplification?

    So, for humans, maybe it'd make them stubborn? I don't really know how it'd amplify Boromir's Boromirness beyond making him more war-hungry?
    "So foot by foot, like small grey insects, they crept up the slope. They came to the path and found that it was broad, paved with broken rubble and beaten ash. Frodo clambered on to it, and then moved as if by some compulsion he turned slowly to face the East. Far off the shadows of Sauron hung; but torn by some gust of wind out of the world, or else moved by some great disquiet within, the mantling clouds swirled, and for a moment drew aside; and then he saw, rising black, blacker and darker than the vast shades amid which it stood, the cruel pinnacles and iron crown of the topmost tower of Barad-dŻr. One moment only it stared out, but as from some great window immeasurably high there stabbed northward a flame of red, the flicker of a piercing Eye; and then the shadows were furled again and the terrible vision was removed. The Eye was not turned to them: it was gazing north to where the Captains of the West stood at bay, and thither all its malice was now bent, as the Power moved to strike its deadly blow; but Frodo at that dreadful glimpse fell as one stricken mortally. His hand sought the chain about his neck."

    For Sauron, it might also have been a way to speed up his becoming physical again. Galadriel claimed that she could read the mind of Sauron. Maybe she would have become capable of reading everyone's mind, even from a distance, and intrude in everyone's thoughts. Gollum almost surely became physically stronger and sneakier than he used to be, since he seemed capable of killing Orcs barehanded.

    Boromir wanted to be recognised as King, and he probably would have used the Ring for that. There also is the fact that Tolkien said that Denethor would have been a cruel ruler, if he could conquer the enemies of Gondor. So Boromir could have been his enforcer... but even this isn't clear, because there was bound to be a conflict concerning who was going to own the ring, and I doubt Boromir would have been able to give it to his own father. Denethor would have become immortal, and Boromir would never have been King.
    Quote Originally Posted by J.R.R. Tolkien, 1955
    I thought Tom Bombadil dreadful ó but worse still was the announcer's preliminary remarks that Goldberry was his daughter (!), and that Willowman was an ally of Mordor (!!).

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    Default Re: LOTR What if: Boromir's plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Malphegor View Post
    I've always been too confused about the powers of the One to be certain what anyone else could do with it.

    Sauron- some sort of power amplifier maybe, at least in the movies (book Sauron could easily have been symbollic of evil's watchful eye rather than a physical entity)

    Gollum-invisibility on a creature that in the Hobbit we know hobbit-like beings are good at hiding, so maybe power amplification?

    Galadriel- she claims it would essentially twist her motives while still adhering to them- so... power amplification?

    So, for humans, maybe it'd make them stubborn? I don't really know how it'd amplify Boromir's Boromirness beyond making him more war-hungry?
    The thing is, you are mashing together specific people who could master the ring, with random people who cant. If Galadriel took the ring, she could use it properly, take control of it, and middle earth would eventually be under the slender slipper heel of a continent wide mind reader that cannot be hidden from. If boromir took the ring, it would twist him into cruelty and insanity until it convinced him he could TOTALLY take down sauron, who would show up, the ring would betray boromir, and sauron gets his ring back.
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  29. - Top - End - #59
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    Default Re: LOTR What if: Boromir's plan

    Galadriel couldnít either.
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  30. - Top - End - #60
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    Default Re: LOTR What if: Boromir's plan

    The Ring also shows you what you could do if you master it. For Sam it shows the entire world turned into a garden, beautiful and orderly with him as the ruler.

    The ring is Power pure and simple, it can do basically anything.
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