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Thread: Pact of the Blade
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2019-04-14, 03:33 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2016
Re: Pact of the Blade
This thread if effin’ painful to read...
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2019-04-14, 03:43 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2016
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2019-04-14, 03:47 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2015
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- In a dungeon somewhere
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Re: Pact of the Blade
I would like to point out that on D&D Beyond (the official digital toolset for 5e, coded under the guidance of the 5e design team), when you mark that a magic weapon - say a Flame Tongue, for the sake of example - is your pact weapon, you begin adding your proficiency bonus to your attack rolls, regardless of which patron you have and whether or not you're proficient with the weapon outside it being your pact weapon.
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2019-04-14, 03:48 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2016
Re: Pact of the Blade
asked and answered.
transformed from a magic weapon without any pact weapon abilities to a magic weapon with [some] pact weapon abilities.
it doesn't get all of the abilities because the specific rule (this weapon appears when it is created) overrides the general pact weapon abilities.
interesting, i assumed you would have to do that manually.
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2019-04-14, 03:58 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2018
Re: Pact of the Blade
Who knew when I started this lol.
1. Confirmed. Sweet.
3. Answered for now. To discuss more with players and dm.
2. Contentious...a question for the sages perhaps, but I submit that the wording of the magical weapon may determine how this works in practice, despite the pact weapon raw.
The other topic being addressed here is proficiency. As a hex blade its not so relevant to me but certainly its generating some interesting discussion.
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2019-04-14, 04:17 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2015
- Location
- In a dungeon somewhere
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Re: Pact of the Blade
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2019-04-14, 04:22 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2009
- Location
- Euphonistan
- Gender
Re: Pact of the Blade
Personally I would be hesitant on using a character builder as evidence. It could be because that is how the designers told them it should work or it could be an unintentional interaction of how they designed the builder to work.
A vestige for me "Pyro火gnus Friend of Meepo" by Zaydos.
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/shows...5&postcount=26
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2019-04-14, 04:33 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2015
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- In a dungeon somewhere
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Re: Pact of the Blade
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2019-04-14, 04:41 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2016
- Location
- The Lakes
Re: Pact of the Blade
What would be the downside, the horrible outcome, of "erring" on the side of the player getting a bit of extra utility and cool out of the combination of "powers" in question here?
It is one thing to suspend your disbelief. It is another thing entirely to hang it by the neck until dead.
Verisimilitude -- n, the appearance or semblance of truth, likelihood, or probability.
The concern is not realism in speculative fiction, but rather the sense that a setting or story could be real, fostered by internal consistency and coherence.
The Worldbuilding Forum -- where realities are born.
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2019-04-14, 05:12 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2015
- Location
- where South is East
Re: Pact of the Blade
Whenever the GM makes a ruling in favor of a player, that's more fun for him.
Whenever you state that RAW is ambivalent, and the GM can interpret how he sees fit, you empower him.
When you try to weasel out with weak wisdom to force feed your fantasy, you put your GM in a weak spot.
There's nothing worse than munchkins going forum-shopping until they get the answer they want and pressure their GM. I'm sure most of you have seen that happen. Dishonesty should always be stumped out.
Even if most players agree with SA that your pact weapon is locked out in a single shape, you can still ask you GM to give you a little freebie. He'll judge if there's a downside or not.Trust but verify. There's usually a reason why I believe you can't do something.
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2019-04-14, 05:33 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2016
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2019-04-14, 06:30 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2013
- Location
- Somewhere
- Gender
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2019-04-14, 06:42 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2015
- Location
- In a dungeon somewhere
- Gender
Re: Pact of the Blade
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2019-04-14, 06:46 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2013
- Location
- Somewhere
- Gender
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2019-04-14, 08:21 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2015
- Location
- The Summer Court
- Gender
Re: Pact of the Blade
You get to read a bunch of JC fanboys' forum posts copying & pasting his tweets to prove that you're playing D&D BADLY.
It happened to me, and it totally ruined my whole day. Took me like, 25 whole seconds to ignore list all of them, and it was a serious inconvenience. Be afraid. Be very afraid.HEY, WTF HAPPENED TO MY AVATAR?
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2019-04-14, 10:01 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2016
Re: Pact of the Blade
You cannot create a ranged weapon without an invocation from XGE, but you can bond to ranged weapon
So let's pretend the magic weapon could change form every time you summon it.
if you bonded with an Oathbow, you would need improved Pact weapon just to summon it as a bow.
if you bonded with your +1 hand crossbow, you can't actually summon it as a +1 hand crossbow.
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2019-04-15, 06:31 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2018
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2019-04-15, 07:54 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2016
Re: Pact of the Blade
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2019-04-15, 09:57 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2016
Re: Pact of the Blade
So the sword doesn’t actually change at all then. So not really a “transformation” per the definition of the word, as you describe the process.
“You can use your action to create a pact weapon in your empty hand. You can choose the form that this melee weapon takes each time you create it (see the Weapons section for weapon options). You are proficient with it while you wield it. This weapon counts as magical for the purpose of overcoming resistance and immunity to nonmagical attacks and damage.
Your pact weapon disappears if it is more than 5 feet away from you for 1 minute or more. It also disappears if you use this feature again, if you dismiss the weapon (no action required), or if you die.”
So here, we learn all about what a pact weapon can do. It can be summoned, the Warlock can choose the form it takes, the Warlock is proficient with it while wielding it, the pact weapon counts as magical, and will disappear if it’s more than 5’ for a minute.
These are the abilities a pact weapon has.
Now we move on to the part about bonding a weapon:
“You can transform one magic weapon into your pact weapon by performing a special ritual while you hold the weapon.”
Here’s that line again. The magic weapon transforms into a pact weapon. So whatever weapon you bond, it transforms into your pact weapon. Now we can go reread the prior two paragraphs to see what abilities a pact weapon has, which this weapon has transformed to be.
Again, the weapon transforms into a pact weapon, and therefore, has the abilities of a pact weapon.
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2019-04-15, 09:59 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2016
- Location
- The Lakes
It is one thing to suspend your disbelief. It is another thing entirely to hang it by the neck until dead.
Verisimilitude -- n, the appearance or semblance of truth, likelihood, or probability.
The concern is not realism in speculative fiction, but rather the sense that a setting or story could be real, fostered by internal consistency and coherence.
The Worldbuilding Forum -- where realities are born.
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2019-04-15, 10:09 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2016
Re: Pact of the Blade
i do like how you don't quote the whole text of the transformation, leaving out the specific rule that limits the general pact weapon ability and then claiming there is no rule. very tricksy.
i will use your technique, ask questions instead of answering them:
- summon my Oathbow as a club, does it use longbow base damage (1d8) or club base damage (1d4)?
- how is adding the ability to summon and be proficient with a specific magic weapon is NOT a transformation?
- how is a dagger with the properties of an Oathbow is still an Oathbow?
- how is a +1 hand crossbow a +1 hand crossbow if you can't summon it as a hand crossbow?
- since base pact weapon doesn't transform into anything, how does transforming a magic weapon into a pact weapon mean it has to transform into different shapes?
why is it painful to read?
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2019-04-15, 11:36 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2018
Re: Pact of the Blade
I have read it many times.
It does not say at all that you can re-forge a magical weapon into anything you want.
It clearly states that you can make a magical weapon your pact weapon. It does not say that you can then change that weapon into anything you want.
If so you could make that weapon a whip and give it to your whip user to use because magic whips are way rare.
It's a good try though. Power gaming at its best.
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2019-04-15, 11:43 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2016
Re: Pact of the Blade
you said 100% false.
Chronos said:
that specific weapon is your pact weapon - true
if that specific weapon:
had a +1, you still get the +1 - true
did extra fire damage you still get the extra fire damage -true
so you're changing the kind of weapon of that specific magic weapon that is your pact weapon. - false
so 3 true statements and 1 false statement. that is closer to 25% false.
you didn't actually explain your view, so either i take you literally or assume you are just being confrontational.... i now see you were just confrontational.
of course, if you had actually read the thread you would notice that for once, you and i have the same interpretation (now that you have actually stated your view)
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2019-04-15, 12:11 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2018
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2019-04-15, 12:17 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2013
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2019-04-15, 12:37 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2018
Re: Pact of the Blade
I agree with you, but here is my question: a warlock has the Blade Pact but not IPW. He cannot summon a longbow and is not proficient in it.
He finds an Oathbow and designates it his pact weapon. Ok, now when he summons it he is proficient with the Oathbow (since it is his pact weapon) even though he would not be able to create one and he doesn’t have IPW.
Seems wrong, and as a DM I would probably rule that he can only bond with a weapon he could otherwise summon.
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2019-04-15, 12:48 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2016
Re: Pact of the Blade
JC originally said the RAI was that you could only bond with summonable weapons, but relented that RAW you could bond with a ranged weapon.
so your ruling would be legit
I contend that he can summon (and be proficient in) the magic weapon and only that weapon in that form. So he can summon that Oathbow and only as a longbow. he isn't creating the bow from pure magic, just summoning it (i am using inconsistent language vs the PHB).
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2019-04-15, 02:17 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2015
- Location
- The Summer Court
- Gender
Re: Pact of the Blade
Rules lawyering is bad; inept rules lawyering is even worse, and deliberately inept rules lawyering for powergaming purposes is... oh, just see my sig. I'm not about to try explaining Pact of the Blade RAW to anyone who doesn't actually want to understand it. That's a non-starter.
This isn't directed at you specifically, NaughtyTiger. But others participating in this "discussion" are doing so in bad faith and I consider engaging with them a waste of time.Last edited by JakOfAllTirades; 2019-04-15 at 02:20 PM.
HEY, WTF HAPPENED TO MY AVATAR?
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2019-04-15, 03:40 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2018
Re: Pact of the Blade
I think I will concede that a pact weapon that takes the traits but not the form of a magical weapon is probably not the intended design note necessarily practical. Unless I settle on a weapon style I'm inclined to keep any magical weapon found as a sheathed option and continue to get flexibility from the pact weapon. Ill also try to get the dm to rule the pact weapon summoning as the same as drawing a weapon not an action once per combat.
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2019-04-15, 03:55 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2016
- Location
- The Lakes
Re: Pact of the Blade
Funny thought... add to IPW the ability to bind and "carry" extra enchanted weapons equal to your Ability modifier (CHA by default, other if DM allows INTlocks or whatever).
Last edited by Max_Killjoy; 2019-04-15 at 03:56 PM.
It is one thing to suspend your disbelief. It is another thing entirely to hang it by the neck until dead.
Verisimilitude -- n, the appearance or semblance of truth, likelihood, or probability.
The concern is not realism in speculative fiction, but rather the sense that a setting or story could be real, fostered by internal consistency and coherence.
The Worldbuilding Forum -- where realities are born.