Minor fixes for Low Op World - Soulborn and Samurai

[Albions_Angel]

Hi all,

The latest targets on my homebrew fix list are the Soulborn and Samurai. Please read the following before suggesting advice, its important. I will try to keep it short.

I run low op games and have attempted some low op fixes to some classes. I like the fixes to be fairly simple, and preferably either a small change to progression, or based on another class feature of feat. Small numerical things. The fixes are designed to making playing the classes a little more enjoyable, and a little more enticing to new players, or experienced players who play low op characters. I dont want any per encounter abilities. Please, dont suggest them.

By low op, let me give a few examples. Wizards are rare as my players find them complicated (I dont set any limits, this is based on what I see, not a rarity I impose). Those wizards that do exist are generally party buffers, enemy debuffers, or blasters. Even when given gold and downtime, they rarely scribe new spells outside of level up, nor do they scribe scrolls, despite XP cost being 0 in my world. They are often the weakest members of the group. Fighters perform well with just a buff to skill points. Barbarians and Duskblades tend to dominate combat without ubercharger cheese. Druids are probably still at the top of the pile, but mostly because of the Animal Companion giving extra action economy, rather than because they are crazy powerful shape shifting spell casters. Its hard to get the clerics to not be healbots. We dont run Psionics (area specific in the world) or ToB (players find it confusing, weak casters and people who choose not to use it feel upset by the options it gives, have had to break up arguments before. I add it when I think they are ready).

I will also list fixes to 2 classes. Monk, because I think it best encapsulates the power shift I am going for, and Paladin, because its close to both Soulborn and Samurai.

Monk

• Full BAB
• Flurry as standard action
• No flurry penalty
• gauntlets/spiked gauntlets as monk weapons - use unarmed damage dice but retain weapon enchantments

Paladin

• Smite Evil Cha per day, +1 at 5,10,15,20
• Lay On Hands as Dragon Shaman Touch of Vitality
• Cha casting
• Battle Blessing at 6th as bonus feat
• Bonus Feat from Fighter Feats, [Divine] feats, or feats dealing with Smite. Prereques must be met. At level 8, 11, 14, 17, 20

I can provide other examples (Knight, Truenamer, Hexblade) on request.

I am at a loss for how to improve Samurai and Soulborn. I want them both because one is a character a lot of people want to play, and the other is central to Incarnum classes, which form a large part of my world.

Any ideas would be appreciated.

[Gnaeus]

Samurai:
1. Replace all the bonus feats with short bonus feat lists (Not all Samurai fought with Katana, they rode horses, used bows, Spears etc)
2. (Related) remove the dumb feat restrictions, like the katana/wagashashi limits for quick draw, TWF. Just make them the full versions of the feats.
3 review https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/alt...lasses/samurai for a couple extra class features.

[ngilop]

Easy fix for the soulborn: gestalt the Soulborn with the Soulknife.


Easy fix for the Samurai: gestalt the complete warrior version with the oriental adventures version. Then toss in the pathfinder cavalier orders as well.

[The Kool]

Easy fix for the soulborn: gestalt the Soulborn with the Soulknife.

This.... hrm..... *checks both classes* This could work? It feels intuitively like overkill, and I suppose you'd want to refluff the mind blade to be a free soulmeld of sorts and not a psi ability... but it could work.

[Albions_Angel]

Im really not keen on Gestalting. It tends to murder the class you use to gestalt with. The soulknife is an active class in my world (with some very minor revisions). And Oriental Adventures is also active in another region.

I like the bonus feats idea. Add in some 2 handed and some archery feats, maybe some trip feats too, and allow Daisho Prof to apply to the weapon you start with? Ancestral weapons are then Sword and Short Sword (with Ex weap prof if bastard sword, weapon focus on main hand if not), greatsword with weapon focus, glaive with weapon focus, bow with precise shot (point blank isnt a prereq in my world)? Broaden them into categories so people can essentially pick any starting weapon and there will be a feat that supports it. Then Quickdraw applies to everything, and Two swords as One becomes "bonus feat from list", probably fighters feats? Option to ditch the ancestral weapon in favour of horse too, gaining mounted combat? So mounted feats need to be options too.

What class abilities from PF do you think would slot in well?

[Mr Adventurer]

Have Samurai count as Fighters for the purpose of weapon feats for their selected combat style, specifically:

Weapon Focus
Weapon Specialisation
Melee Weapon Mastery
Ranged Weapon Mastery
Greater Weapon Focus
Greater Weapon Specialisation

Grant these as bonus feats when BAB requirements are met.

Replace the Samurai class skills and skill points with the Aristocrat class skills and skill points.

Improve Will saves to good progression.

[Zaq]

Answer this question first: from a design perspective, how do you want the samurai to be distinct from the fighter? Right now they’re basically crappy fighters on rails with some very minor flavor pieces. Give the class a true reason to be chosen over the fighter, and use that as your point of focus.

[ngilop]

Im really not keen on Gestalting. It tends to murder the class you use to gestalt with. The soulknife is an active class in my world (with some very minor revisions). And Oriental Adventures is also active in another region.

I like the bonus feats idea. Add in some 2 handed and some archery feats, maybe some trip feats too, and allow Daisho Prof to apply to the weapon you start with? Ancestral weapons are then Sword and Short Sword (with Ex weap prof if bastard sword, weapon focus on main hand if not), greatsword with weapon focus, glaive with weapon focus, bow with precise shot (point blank isnt a prereq in my world)? Broaden them into categories so people can essentially pick any starting weapon and there will be a feat that supports it. Then Quickdraw applies to everything, and Two swords as One becomes "bonus feat from list", probably fighters feats? Option to ditch the ancestral weapon in favour of horse too, gaining mounted combat? So mounted feats need to be options too.

What class abilities from PF do you think would slot in well?

Why do you have 2 completely different versions of the samurai? That seems, to me at least, to be more confusing and a waste than just combining the two versions to make an actual decent class. I am also not understanding how combining the two different versions of samurai murders one of the versions. If you already have soulknife then I can see why you don't want to combine those.

[ottdmk]

Well, you might find it too complicated, but I made my own Soulborn Homebrew a while back. It's still recognizable as a Soulborn from the actual book, but I think I made it a bit more competitive and a bit more fun.

[illyahr]

Fix for Samurai? Use the original 3.0 version from Oriental Adventures. The 3.5 one from CA sucks.

OA original version: Good Will saves, more skill points per level, better skill list, and bonus feats that fit your fighting style.

Add on to that the fact that there is a Rokugan Campaign Setting book that adds Clan style feats and you can have some fun. For example:
Way of the Crab - Gain Heavy Armor Proficiency and medium or heavy armor doesn't slow you
Bayushi's Technique - Gain +1d6 Sudden Strike (repeatable)
Death Trance - Gain the Paladin's Aura of Courage
The Pincers Hold, The Tail Strikes - If you feint and strike the target while it's denied its Dex, threaten Crit on hit
Togashi's Technique - TWF without the Dex requirement

I could go on, if you'd like

As for Soulborn, the Playground has an answer for that in the Esper Knight

[SLOTHRPG95]

Have Samurai count as Fighters for the purpose of weapon feats for their selected combat style, specifically:

Weapon Focus
Weapon Specialisation
Melee Weapon Mastery
Ranged Weapon Mastery
Greater Weapon Focus
Greater Weapon Specialisation

Grant these as bonus feats when BAB requirements are met.

Replace the Samurai class skills and skill points with the Aristocrat class skills and skill points.

Improve Will saves to good progression.

I like this idea, although I wouldn't grant said feats for free. Instead, I'd just shore up the current number of bonus feats/pseudo-feats to 7 or 8 from 6. Furthermore, I'm in favor of changing them to combat style-type progressions, as a middle ground between the current situation and just free picks from a list. So maybe one combat style lets you pick from TWF/ITWF/GTWF, TWD/ITWD/GTWD, Two-Weapon Pounce, Two-Weapon Rend, Dual Strike, and Double Hit. Another (closer to the Kakita in L5R) could focus on Quick Draw, Improved Initiative, and Dex/Int-based combat feats. A third (think Hida) could have the core Power Attack chain, plus a few other thematic toys like Combat Brute and Three Mountains. Etcetera. This gives the players more selection, without just saying, "eh just pick whatever fighter bonus feats" which'd make Samurai feel less focused.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Samurai:

1. Give them combat styles (clan/school based) instead of the TWF feats, for example:
Tiger: the TWF feats with no restrictions on which weapons.
Lion: Power Attack, Cleave, and Great Cleave.
Bear: Improved Unarmed Strike + Superior Unarmed Strike (ToB), Improved Grapple, Stunning Fist.
Horse: Ride-By Attack, Spirited Charge, Trample.
Sparrow: Rapid Shot, Manyshot, Improved Precise Shot.
You get the idea, you can even give players creative freedom to make up their own path and thematically appropriate bonus feats.

2. Give them a specific bonus feat at each dead level (4, 9, 13, 15, 18, 19) consisting of Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization, Melee or Ranged Weapon Mastery, Greater Weapon Focus, Greater Weapon Specialization, and Weapon Supremacy (or maybe a special ranged feat if they took Ranged Weapon Mastery). Make each of these feats apply to both of their daisho weapons.

3. Four base skill points/level and more class skills, such as Climb, Balance, Jump, Swim, Tumble, Perform, etc.


Soulborn:

1. Improve the meldshaper level to 2/3 the class level or even 3/4 class level, rounded down. This way it's 13 at 20th or 15 at 20th, instead of 10 at 20th. They could get Double Chakra at 15th or 12th instead of 18th level this way.

2. Grant more bonus feats, at least add one at 15 and 19 to continue the current progression. Also find something to put on the dead levels at 4th, 6th, 12th, and 16th, such as Fighter bonus feats.

3. Upgrade the smite uses the same as you did for Paladins.

3. Four base skill points/level, and more class skills. Put all four alignment specific skills on the class skill list regardless of alignment, but the one corresponding to your alignment automatically gets max ranks per Soulborn level for free.

[Psyren]

Why not just make Soulborn Meldshaper level = class level? There's no reason to restrict it.

Or if you insist that there has to be a limit of some kind, make it level -3 or something. A fraction, in addition to being annoying to calculate, is just overkill on a class that already has very limited chakras and chakra binds.