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    Default Re: Episode IX - The Rise of Skywalker

    Quote Originally Posted by Frozen_Feet View Post
    Re: "Thousand generations live in you"

    I talked about this after TLJ came out and people were calling Yoda a horrible person for not caring about burning books:

    Ghosts of Jedi Masters from countless generations live as one with the Force. None of the information would've been lost with those books, as you could gather from Luke himself having a casual chat with a long-dead master.

    It's been my theory for a time now that Rey is a conduit of the Force and is being instructed by knowledge of all those Force ghosts. That's why, in TLJ, she showcases sudden knowledge of several lightsaber styles.

    Of course, this leaves the door open for Sith ghosts influencing Rey... because as also showcased in TLJ, she is quick to give in to the dark side if she thinks it will give her the answers she wants. So... "no-one is truly gone" indeed.
    I still don't get why people think the books were destroyed. The entire scene with Yoda telling Luke that she has everything she needs, is a hint to what's going on. And later in the movie they show the books on the Falcon.

    Yoda's not sad about the Jedi text being destroyed. " BECAUSE THEY WEREN'T DESTROYED "
    Rey's most likely read and studied the books between movies which is how she's built a new lightsaber.
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    Default Re: Episode IX - The Rise of Skywalker

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackhawk748 View Post
    The Resurgent Class Star Destroyer takes about 74k crew to man, which is double that of an Imperial II Star Destroyer. Except a Resurgent has something like triple (or more) the firepower and nearly double the Fighter Support, they can manage to build these things as well as the Supremacy (which is a giant floating Factory ship, not a Warship)in the middle of flipping nowhere so ya, I don't think that TLJ was that much of a setback for them materialistically. Morale wise? Sure, maybe. But actually loses? No.

    It's not even a Pyrric victory for them. They blasted apart the one thing that was fighting them, the Resistance. The New Republic was a joke for not having a fleet, not even one to un-mothball as far as I'm aware, so they're no threat, and a single Resurgent can roll over any system that isn't called Kuat Drive Yards or in Hutt Space.

    Also, personnel are never stated to be their limiting factory. It's constantly stated that resources are their problem, and guess what? They can recycle those 20 destroyed/crippled Resurgent's from TLJ into at least 10 functional ships, probabl more. Seriously, they walked out of TLJ smelling like roses.
    Why do you think the Republic didn't have a fleet? The Republic was stated as the only thing the First Order was afraid of.
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  3. - Top - End - #93
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    Default Re: Episode IX - The Rise of Skywalker

    Quote Originally Posted by Devonix View Post
    I still don't get why people think the books were destroyed. The entire scene with Yoda telling Luke that she has everything she needs, is a hint to what's going on. And later in the movie they show the books on the Falcon.

    Yoda's not sad about the Jedi text being destroyed. " BECAUSE THEY WEREN'T DESTROYED "
    Rey's most likely read and studied the books between movies which is how she's built a new lightsaber.
    Oh, I know that Rey took the books and hence they were not burned. However, that was:

    1) a cop-out
    2) an unnecessary cop-out, for aforementioned reasons
    3) not the theme of that conversation

    Yoda's point would've stood even if the books HAD burned. What's a bunch of letters on dead trees when there is the Force?
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  4. - Top - End - #94
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    Default Re: Episode IX - The Rise of Skywalker

    Quote Originally Posted by Devonix View Post
    Why do you think the Republic didn't have a fleet? The Republic was stated as the only thing the First Order was afraid of.
    Because of this idiocy. The New Republic gutted their military (and I mean gutted, they reduced it by 90%) and refused to build new ships, meaning that, in the 30 years since the Civil War, the only new ships they added to the military were snubfighters and some small craft. No new Capital Ships were allowed to be built, so they were using MC80 Mon Calamari Cruisers which would be dangerously outdated by that point. Combine this with the blast from Starkiller Base destroying most of the Republic's standing fleet and you have the current situation. Namely, the FO being able to run roughshod over absolutely everything that isn't The Hutts or The Hapes Consortium

    What's even dumber here is that Mon Mothma is the one who proposed this, which makes no sense
    Last edited by Blackhawk748; 2019-04-13 at 10:17 AM.
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  5. - Top - End - #95
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    Default Re: Episode IX - The Rise of Skywalker

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    You're reading literally a pretty straigthforward metonymy. The legacy of a thousand generations lives within her
    I don't mean Rey is literally the reincarnation of them,or that she's gonna go into Avatar State or whatever. But between that line and "we've passed on all we know," (which we?), I'm left wondering just how much force ghost communion is involved and what actually got passed on. If it's just Luke's grandiose characterization of him and Yoda being sage in her general direction, that's fine.

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    Default Re: Episode IX - The Rise of Skywalker

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackhawk748 View Post
    Because of this idiocy. The New Republic gutted their military (and I mean gutted, they reduced it by 90%) and refused to build new ships, meaning that, in the 30 years since the Civil War, the only new ships they added to the military were snubfighters and some small craft. No new Capital Ships were allowed to be built, so they were using MC80 Mon Calamari Cruisers which would be dangerously outdated by that point. Combine this with the blast from Starkiller Base destroying most of the Republic's standing fleet and you have the current situation. Namely, the FO being able to run roughshod over absolutely everything that isn't The Hutts or The Hapes Consortium

    What's even dumber here is that Mon Mothma is the one who proposed this, which makes no sense
    Wow not only is that incredibly stupid for in universe reasons, it's stupid for story telling reasons. And goes against what the characters say on screen.

    If this was the case then there is absolutely no reason for them to build Starkiller base. They could just attack them with their ships and win.
    Last edited by Devonix; 2019-04-13 at 11:40 AM.
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    I could buy that the FO is deliberately under crewing its ships to appear bigger than they are, which would also help explain why they seem relatively ineffective in combat.

    The new republic disarming to that extent is very strange. Even discounting the FO, there's enough pirates in the galaxy that you need some kind of fleet just to protect shipping. In Last Shot, an NR blockade literally is outgunned by pirates.

    Prequel Naboo, with volunteer security forces and 1000 years of peace, still had its own starfighters, NR member states should have something.

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    Default Re: Episode IX - The Rise of Skywalker

    Quote Originally Posted by Sapphire Guard View Post
    I could buy that the FO is deliberately under crewing its ships to appear bigger than they are, which would also help explain why they seem relatively ineffective in combat.
    The only capital ship combat we've seen so far has been a ridiculously overpowered Poe and a very boring chase. I'd say we don't really know how effective they are in combat.
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    Default Re: Episode IX - Rise of the Skywalker

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Uhhh... Eps IV-VI kind of don't really have a Republic. to face a grave thread or be back on top.
    I-III is the republic on top part. Followed by the huge threat, and then rise of the empire. The prequels were bad, but you didn't forget about that, did you?

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    Default Re: Episode IX - The Rise of Skywalker

    Quote Originally Posted by Sapphire Guard View Post
    I could buy that the FO is deliberately under crewing its ships to appear bigger than they are, which would also help explain why they seem relatively ineffective in combat.

    The new republic disarming to that extent is very strange. Even discounting the FO, there's enough pirates in the galaxy that you need some kind of fleet just to protect shipping. In Last Shot, an NR blockade literally is outgunned by pirates.

    Prequel Naboo, with volunteer security forces and 1000 years of peace, still had its own starfighters, NR member states should have something.
    I thought this was a major reason for the disarmament, so that member states would each have enough of an army to not be potentially bullied by the central government in case of Palpatine 2.0. I also thought that was why they were anxious to get a signal out at the end of TLJ, so they could summon the individual navies and combine them into a respectable force. Of course, we saw how that turned out.
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    Default Re: Episode IX - Rise of the Skywalker

    Quote Originally Posted by HMS Invincible View Post
    I-III is the republic on top part. Followed by the huge threat, and then rise of the empire. The prequels were bad, but you didn't forget about that, did you?
    So Star Wars has always done this, except the first movie, the second movie, the third movie, the original trilogy as a single unit, the fourth movie, the fifth movie, the sixth movie, and the prequel trilogy as a single unit. Only the first six movies as a single unit end up with the "Republic faces grave threat, empire like evil faces heroes, republic is back on top" formula, and that's with an incredibly generous interpretation of "Republic is back on top."
    Last edited by Peelee; 2019-04-13 at 04:05 PM.
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    Default Re: Episode IX - Rise of the Skywalker

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Really? Y'all leaving all the optimism up to me? I will shoulder this burden, then. Ep 9, y'all ! WOOOOOOOOOO!
    You have my bow. Seeing this opening weekend.

    Quote Originally Posted by Douglas View Post
    Yeah, the title fits what I was expecting and hoping for from TLJ, but... every known Skywalker is dead now, so how could it be "The Rise of Skywalker" without being a prequel?
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    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    Luke doesn't say he passed on thousand years of Jedi Lore and Yoda never said they weren't useful in any way, he said the very opposite.
    He says they gave her all they know and that a thousand generations now live in her, which is a pretty good hint that she's received the accumulated Jedi knowledge. And she has it, but Luke didn't give it to her. As for Yoda, he chided Luke for thinking that Rey actually needed the books which is why he and Luke were supposed to be so sanguine about them seemingly being destroyed, so not the opposite at all.

    Starting with her breathing over a black screen is a direct call-back to the teasers of TLJ so I doubt that.
    I don't think that's enough to demonstrate that it isn't a retcon attempt, given how often that sort of thing is used ironically, and given how the tone does shift back towards TFA rather than what you'd expect from TLJ.

    What, you expect the movie not to focus on the protagonist?
    In TLJ, Finn and Poe had arcs that took up about as much screentime and were arguably more important to the plot than Rey's, or at least most of Rey's. In the trailer, they are reduced to about as many scenes as Lando gets, and less prominent ones. This, then, shifts it -- back, likely -- to having a tight focus on Rey. But Rey is not an interesting enough character at this point to make that appealing except to die-hard Rey fans.

    The FO lost the majority of their fleet as well as their two humonguous ships and two of their leaders with the supporting two despising each other. They left TLJ in terrible shape. Meanwhile the Allinace went from thirty fighters to a fully-fledged fleet in-between ANH and TSB.
    Well, there's no evidence that they lost the majority of their fleet in the actual movie, and it even implies that they are still a threat because no one will help the Resistance even after that happens.

    As for the Alliance, they had at least some means of creating a fleet -- I dislike Rogue One's semi-retcon that they lost all their ships in that space battle they one -- AND there were three years between ANH and TESB AND it was clear that the Alliance had political and financial resources that the Resistance doesn't seem to have access to. So not the same thing at all. In fact, any attempt to say that they DID have that again retcons and kills the tone of TLJ, which is that it's mostly hopeless and that that's all they have left.
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    Default Re: Episode IX - The Rise of Skywalker

    Quote Originally Posted by Daimbert View Post
    Well, there's no evidence that they lost the majority of their fleet in the actual movie, and it even implies that they are still a threat because no one will help the Resistance even after that happens.

    As for the Alliance, they had at least some means of creating a fleet -- I dislike Rogue One's semi-retcon that they lost all their ships in that space battle they one -- AND there were three years between ANH and TESB AND it was clear that the Alliance had political and financial resources that the Resistance doesn't seem to have access to. So not the same thing at all. In fact, any attempt to say that they DID have that again retcons and kills the tone of TLJ, which is that it's mostly hopeless and that that's all they have left.
    Maybe some of those people who wouldn't help the Resistance on Crait changed their minds since then. Maybe some of those people were inspired by the legend of Luke Skywalker's last stand, which we saw spreading across the galaxy at the end of TLJ, to take a stand themselves. Doesn't seem like a retcon is necessary.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lethologica View Post
    Maybe some of those people who wouldn't help the Resistance on Crait changed their minds since then. Maybe some of those people were inspired by the legend of Luke Skywalker's last stand, which we saw spreading across the galaxy at the end of TLJ, to take a stand themselves. Doesn't seem like a retcon is necessary.
    Retcon might not be the right word, but it definitely contradicts the tone at the end of TLJ. At a minimum, this movie should be about rebuilding the Resistance, not having it spring back quickly enough to settle things.
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    Default Re: Episode IX - The Rise of Skywalker

    I liked the symetric war of the pt. Either returning to that, or playing a 'Imperials as terrorists' game (the inverse of ot/st) wouldve been good.

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    Default Re: Episode IX - The Rise of Skywalker

    Quote Originally Posted by The Jack View Post
    I liked the symetric war of the pt. Either returning to that, or playing a 'Imperials as terrorists' game (the inverse of ot/st) wouldve been good.
    It's what I had thought they were setting up in TFA until they revealed the Giant Death Pokeball. Needless to say, I was disappointed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daimbert View Post
    Retcon might not be the right word, but it definitely contradicts the tone at the end of TLJ. At a minimum, this movie should be about rebuilding the Resistance, not having it spring back quickly enough to settle things.
    Some degree of overriding of TLJ was inevitable, because the position in which TLJ left the story was wholly incompatible to finishing the overall story in a single movie. Whatever the merits of TLJ (it's not worth re-litigating that now) the status quo provided in its final scenes absolutely requires a substantial amount of modification in order to set up a culmination to just this trilogy, never mind the entire nine movie story, in one film. Possibly some measure of timeskip is being deployed, it's not clear. This trailer shows they haven't deliberately aged up Rey, but that's all, there could easily be as much as five years in between the two films.

    Unfortunately, whatever solution is utilized to get the Resistance and Empire in a position to have some kind of decisive battle, it's going to require some significant exposition, and the current experience of the ST has been one of a great gaping void where essential exposition should be. I mean, just in this very thread we have people discussing the Republic's post-Endor demilitarization, a plot point that is drawn entirely from the supplementary materials and is never presented in the films at all.
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    Default Re: Episode IX - The Rise of Skywalker

    Quote Originally Posted by Daimbert View Post
    He says they gave her all they know and that a thousand generations now live in her, which is a pretty good hint that she's received the accumulated Jedi knowledge. And she has it, but Luke didn't give it to her. As for Yoda, he chided Luke for thinking that Rey actually needed the books which is why he and Luke were supposed to be so sanguine about them seemingly being destroyed, so not the opposite at all.
    Yoda was trolling Luke. His words were "that library contained nothing that Rey does not already possess". He meant that she had already stolen the books, while Luke took it that she didn't need them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daimbert View Post
    Retcon might not be the right word, but it definitely contradicts the tone at the end of TLJ. At a minimum, this movie should be about rebuilding the Resistance, not having it spring back quickly enough to settle things.
    Except the First Order/nascent Empire could easily turn in on itself too. They just had a rather messy coup thanks to Young Hitler that not everyone might be on board with.

    Quote Originally Posted by Narkis View Post
    Yoda was trolling Luke. His words were "that library contained nothing that Rey does not already possess". He meant that she had already stolen the books, while Luke took it that she didn't need them.
    It could easily be both. She has what she needs inside already, but just in case she doesn't or is feeling doubtful, she's got the books.

    Quote Originally Posted by Daimbert View Post
    But Rey is not an interesting enough character at this point to make that appealing except to die-hard Rey fans.
    Or - and bear with me on this wild theory - you're wrong/in the minority on how the audiences see Rey.
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    Default Re: Episode IX - Rise of the Skywalker

    Quote Originally Posted by Wraith View Post
    Either way, I think I'm looking forward to Episode IX. I liked TLJ - it had a lot of stupid bits in it and I wish it was better, but I enjoyed it and I'm glad that i have watched it. Now, I want to know how the saga concludes and I like what little has been suggested so far.
    This basically sums up my feelings, so I'm just going to steal it. :-)

    ETA: Wait, it's J. J. Abrams directing again? Never mind, my hopes for the movie have been dashed.
    Last edited by The Troubadour; 2019-04-13 at 10:53 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Devonix View Post
    Wow not only is that incredibly stupid for in universe reasons, it's stupid for story telling reasons. And goes against what the characters say on screen.
    This happens for a few reasons:

    1. J.J. Abrams wanted to essentially reboot the first movie and isn't a details guy. He put up a setup and told Pablo Hidalgo and the Story Group to worry about the details. Keep in mind no details for the rest of the trilogy were set in stone at that point, no details for any substantial tie-ins were made, and everything was working back from the assumption the republic could be wiped out in one go.

    2. J.J. Abrams doesn't play nice with others. Even after all of that he made a lot of edits to TFA without actually telling Lucasfilm he was doing it. Hidalgo said that he didn't even know about the opening crawl and how the republic was involved until he saw the film in the theaters because Abrams changed it all at the last minute, long after all the surrounding material had gone to print.

    3. Rian Johnson also doesn't play nice with others. He more or less scrapped the notes both Abrams and Lucas had for 8 and 9 and did his own thing. Meaning even when a plan was in place it really wasn't and he refused to leave any real room to develop or co-ordinate with the existing plan.

    4. The design team at Lucasfilm is very simple and straightforward. They insisted that every new design be bigger than the old ones. So new Star Destroyers are twice the size of old ones and the ones above that are several times bigger and the biggest ship is just casually in spitting range of the Death Stars size. By contrast even the smaller resistance ships are each individually bigger than their rebel equivalents to the point where the Raddus could probably solo any Imperial ship besides an SSD. The relative scale as a result hasn't really changed but it makes writing about it a headache to say the least.

    5. The guys that should be looped in to every meeting really aren't. Dave Filoni is probably the most important director Lucasfilm has, above even Abrams just by raw volume of crap he's attached to, and he's in a lot of meetings but he very obviously is working off old concepts and piecing together stuff he shouldn't have to. At one point he was running four different animated series at once while also having to individually animate and storyboard segments by hand. There needs to be a much larger team of directors and talent at the top tier who can co-ordinate but Lucasfilm has notoriously been hemmoraging that kind of personnel since the buyout and been unable to attract a lot of new ones.
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    Default Re: Episode IX - The Rise of Skywalker

    Quote Originally Posted by Mechalich View Post
    Some degree of overriding of TLJ was inevitable, because the position in which TLJ left the story was wholly incompatible to finishing the overall story in a single movie. Whatever the merits of TLJ (it's not worth re-litigating that now) the status quo provided in its final scenes absolutely requires a substantial amount of modification in order to set up a culmination to just this trilogy, never mind the entire nine movie story, in one film. Possibly some measure of timeskip is being deployed, it's not clear. This trailer shows they haven't deliberately aged up Rey, but that's all, there could easily be as much as five years in between the two films.

    Unfortunately, whatever solution is utilized to get the Resistance and Empire in a position to have some kind of decisive battle, it's going to require some significant exposition, and the current experience of the ST has been one of a great gaping void where essential exposition should be. I mean, just in this very thread we have people discussing the Republic's post-Endor demilitarization, a plot point that is drawn entirely from the supplementary materials and is never presented in the films at all.
    Yeah, that's one of my complaints about TLJ. It left things so that there's no sensible way the last movie can tie things up in one movie. Given, though, how successful as a franchise Star Wars is, I would have simply ditched that idea and promised another trilogy following up on where this one ends to tie things up, leaving this trilogy ending at the point where Star Wars began: the Resistance has managed to rebuild enough to win a battle, and now the fight for the galaxy is heating up.

    Instead, they seem to be trying to finish that off regardless. You can't do that sensibly without undoing TLJ or at least adding things that TLJ didn't mention or highlight, none of which will work if the trilogy is taken as one story. Even adding years in-between will only make us wonder why we weren't shown all the interesting things that went into the rebuilding of the Resistance.

    Quote Originally Posted by Narkis
    Yoda was trolling Luke. His words were "that library contained nothing that Rey does not already possess". He meant that she had already stolen the books, while Luke took it that she didn't need them.
    Since we didn't know that at the time, this also meant he was trolling THE AUDIENCE, and Yoda himself never reveals that that is what he meant there. In-universe, this makes Yoda a jerk who deliberately allowed Luke to take the wrong message from what he said and, in fact, even deliberately phrased it that way to cause that, as he knew what Luke was thinking there. From the audience's perspective, it's the movie directly lying to us to indirectly contradict a message that it directly states. Plus, her having the books is indeed consistent with Yoda saying that she doesn't really need them.

    And, on top of that, it still makes the line that they gave her all they could wrong, because they didn't actually give it to her. She stole it.

    Anyway, the implication from TLJ is that the books and lore aren't as important as Luke thought they were, which is consistent with how Yoda acted in TESB. The voiceover in the trailer ignores that completely.

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren
    Except the First Order/nascent Empire could easily turn in on itself too. They just had a rather messy coup thanks to Young Hitler that not everyone might be on board with.
    This wouldn't help. We'd still have TLJ ending with a dire situation only to have a semi-random circumstance reset the balance of power. After all, there's no one in the FO who could spawn a Resistance-friendly coup on the basis of rejecting the old-style Imperial/Sith treachery, and so it would just be an internal power struggle, which wouldn't be that interesting in and of itself, and you'd need more time than one movie to develop in an interesting way (the Resistance cultivating it, for example). In my view of how TFA should have been done, I would have made Thrawn be responsible for their success and then defect due to disdain for the system-killing device, which then would have left him as a character that could have rallied some of the FO to the side of the Resistance without having to introduce a new character, and it STILL would have seemed a bit too easy given how we left TLJ.

    As I said above, there's no good way to end it to the level of RotJ in this last movie given where they started from. The end of TESB, for example, left them with a viable fleet. Here, they don't even have that. Building that up definitely will require work on their part, but there's no time to do that in one movie AND have them use it successfully without it coming across as contrived in order to end it in this trilogy.

    Or - and bear with me on this wild theory - you're wrong/in the minority on how the audiences see Rey.
    So the majority of the audience are die-hard Rey fans? Because that IS a wild theory [grin].

    Unless you're a die-hard Rey fan, you aren't going to look at a trailer as focused on Rey as this one is and think "Oooh, there's lots of Rey in this movie, I've gotta go see it!" You're going to want to know things about the plot and the other characters, because Rey, on her own, just isn't that interesting a character so that you just want to see her do stuff on screen. The trailer isn't even advertising her story, but is just advertising HER. Again, other than die-hard Rey fans, seeing Rey in that prominent a position isn't going to get them that excited for the movie.

    So what does your theory say that I'm wrong or in the minority about?
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    Default Re: Episode IX - The Rise of Skywalker

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    Or - and bear with me on this wild theory - you're wrong/in the minority on how the audiences see Rey.
    Doubtful. I think it's only a minority that hate her but the overhelming majority of people Ive met, casual and hardcore both , seem to not care for her.

    There's room to do things with her, but they havent done anything.

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    Default Re: Episode IX - The Rise of Skywalker

    And who the heck is Major Vonreg? I did a search for "First Order Tie Interceptor" and his name came up with a tie interceptor painted similarly to the one in the trailer.

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    Default Re: Episode IX - The Rise of Skywalker

    Quote Originally Posted by Daimbert View Post
    So the majority of the audience are die-hard Rey fans? Because that IS a wild theory [grin].
    That is one dumb strawman

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    Default Re: Episode IX - The Rise of Skywalker

    Quote Originally Posted by Cikomyr View Post
    That is one dumb strawman
    Go read what I said and what he replied. The only mention I made of fans directly was die-hard Rey fans, and said that Rey is not an interesting enough character to get anyone other than die-hard Rey fans excited. If he wanted to rebut my argument, he should have focused on Rey being more interesting a character. Instead, he focused on my somehow being wrong about how the majority of fans see Rey, which suggests that interpretation: more fans like Rey a lot more than I think they do, but since I was talking about how it would appeal to die-hard Rey fans, that would suggest that more of them are those sorts of fans.

    And I was in fact BEING a bit specious to point out the lack of any kind of actual argument there, or to be precise hinting that he was attacking a strawman without doing the impolite thing of simply saying that and providing no evidence or argumentation to support it.

    Which is why I ALSO went on in detail about what I meant in my original comment, which has NOTHING to do with my claiming that he thinks that most fans are Rey fans and in fact assumes it isn't, making that original specious line utterly irrelevant unless that really WAS Psyren's argument. Thus, that first line was the irrelevant part and the second paragraph was the important part and my actual argument. Guess which of those you addressed and which you ignored.
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    Default Re: Episode IX - The Rise of Skywalker

    Quote Originally Posted by Daimbert View Post
    Since we didn't know that at the time, this also meant he was trolling THE AUDIENCE, and Yoda himself never reveals that that is what he meant there. In-universe, this makes Yoda a jerk who deliberately allowed Luke to take the wrong message from what he said and, in fact, even deliberately phrased it that way to cause that, as he knew what Luke was thinking there. From the audience's perspective, it's the movie directly lying to us to indirectly contradict a message that it directly states. Plus, her having the books is indeed consistent with Yoda saying that she doesn't really need them.

    And, on top of that, it still makes the line that they gave her all they could wrong, because they didn't actually give it to her. She stole it.

    Anyway, the implication from TLJ is that the books and lore aren't as important as Luke thought they were, which is consistent with how Yoda acted in TESB. The voiceover in the trailer ignores that completely.
    Yes, Yoda (and by extension Rian Johnson) was trolling the audience as well. Are you really surprised? That's all the movie did, set up expectations (Rey doesn't need anything from the burning tree) only to subvert them (Psyke! You thought I meant she didn't need these dusty old books, when I actually meant she had stolen them and they didn't burn along with the tree. Gotcha!)

    I agree that the line that they gave her all they could is wrong. It was inevitable though, TLJ didn't leave much to work with it and retconning it is pretty much the only choice.

    Quote Originally Posted by napoleon_in_rag View Post
    And who the heck is Major Vonreg? I did a search for "First Order Tie Interceptor" and his name came up with a tie interceptor painted similarly to the one in the trailer.
    Wookiepedia tells me he's Star Wars Resistance's replacement of Baron Soontir Fel as an Imperial Red Baron. A shame they created an expy instead of bringing him into canon. He was a pretty big character in the old EU.
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    Default Re: Episode IX - The Rise of Skywalker

    Rey was actually the only part of TFA I actually liked. Not enough to watch any of the more recent films, mind.



    One of the things that drove SW into A Thing for me (beyond just being "the movies with starfighter combat in them") was the early EU (especially Zhan and TIE Fighter, but also Stackpole and the TTRPG), where everyone was drawing from everyone else and creating a consistent piece of world-building. The nucanon basically lost me whe they decided they weren't interested in doing that (either in continuing with what was before, nor building a new one), and if they weren't interested, I wasn't.
    Last edited by Aotrs Commander; 2019-04-14 at 08:07 AM.

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