Predictions on what V's 9th level spells will be?

[Elves]

They learn 2 9th level spells next time they level up, so that will probably happen before the end.

I'll guess Foresight, since it embodies The New Approach and is the opposite of what they'd have picked at the start.

And maybe Shapechange, since it would be nice to see the pink antler dragon again.

Beyond that, Time Stop and Wish of course have cachet. I could also see Disjunction since Xykon's items proved problematic during the splice attempt but that doesn't feel very thematic.

Non-core options:
Hindsight is basically "infodump: the spell"
Effulgent Epuration would be a good plot device to protect people from powerful attacks by R&X
Instant Refuge is a 9th level evocation that also embodies V's new spellcasting ethic, making it a nice synthesis, and it would help make up for their lack of Teleport and Contingency.

[zimmerwald1915]

Technically, wizards can learn 2 spells of any level they can cast upon level-up. Most players have their wizards pick spells of the highest level they can cast, seeing it as a no-brainer, but nothing says they have to.

That said, if Vaarsuvius were to pick 2 9th-level spells upon level-up to 17th level, she might pick:

Bigby'sBugsby's crushing hand, being fond of this line of spells and needing to take one Evocation as a level-up spell; and
Mordenkainen's Disjunction, for the narrative - not intended - purpose of using on the Crimson Mantle and being permanently drained of all spellcasting.

[Peelee]

My guesses:

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[CriticalFailure]

It would make the most sense to pick at least one evocation for that extra specialty spell slot. Unless that's just a Pathfinder thing and I'm being oblivious.

I like the mage's disjunction on the mantle theory.

[Jasdoif]

I'm gonna take the long shot of "Vaarsuvius won't cast a (non-soul-splice) 9th-level spell before the comic ends".

[understatement]

Wish is way too much of a gamebreaker...?

[Aveline]

I'm gonna take the long shot of "Vaarsuvius won't cast a (non-soul-splice) 9th-level spell before the comic ends".

Hmmm... I think I'm with you on that one. Too many 9th level wizard spells seem utterly broken. (Still not a D&D player.) I seem to recall that Rich has talked about specific spells being narrative-breaking... Summon Banana, pretty please?

[Peelee]

Hmmm... I think I'm with you on that one. Too many 9th level wizard spells seem utterly broken. (Still not a D&D player.) I seem to recall that Rich has talked about specific spells being narrative-breaking... Summon Banana, pretty please?

True Resurrection.

From a storytelling point of view, the "Why didn't this person do X?" questions are sort of a waste of time. They didn't do that because something stopped them, obviously. Does it matter what that something was, really? Dragons don't have access to 17th level clerics because they just don't. That's not the way the world works. Assume, if you want, that she asked the Oracle, and the Oracle said there isn't anyone who would be willing to cast it for a black dragon.

And more to the point, True Resurrection is a terrible, narrative-wrecking spell that should not exist, as it has no real purpose for players who die in battle (as they can almost always be returned via simple Resurrection) and only ever comes in to play to undo plot points. I prefer to simply treat it as "not available" to everyone, and I don't want to waste any panel time explaining why.

(Also, with regards to the Gating a Solar thing: The "fair trade" price a Solar would ask for resurrecting an evil dragon would simply be the mother dragon's own life—because that would be a Good act of self-sacrifice, and the Solar would approve of that. There's no reason to think the mother dragon would be willing to pay that price...and even if she was, she would insist on punishing V first, since her son was relatively weak.)

[Aveline]

True Resurrection.

Pretty thank-you.

[Jasdoif]

True Resurrection.

Similarly, teleportation.

Is there any particular part of the D&D 3e rules that "gets in the way" of your story more consistently than others? I mean, it doesn't really get in the way because it's swept aside the moment it becomes inconvenient, but I hope the question makes sense.

True Resurrection, without a doubt. It's literally impossible for a mortal character to ever be completely out of the story because of its existence. Actually, all forms of resurrection are kind of a pain in the ass, though the other versions have roadblocks you can throw in the path. But because True Resurrection exists, every character death is met with, "Well, they could still come back!" forever.

Also, Teleport. Characters who blip right to their end destination do not for an engaging journey make.

I will note that the Order's had access to teleportation effects, but not on their own terms (Shojo's wizard, the soul splice with Ganonron).

[Living Oxymoron]

I am placing my bet on that

Spoiler: On the Origin of the PCs

Show

Distant Inferno spell, that looked like an unfinished work in the book. Wouldn't it be awesome if that spell came back to the story as one of the strongest spells around?

Wish is way too much of a gamebreaker...?

Gamebreaker, maybe. But it would certainly break the narrative with the several possibilities that the spell contains. I'm almost sure that Burlew won't allow his characters (especially the PCs) to use that kind of spell.

[Elves]

Mordenkainen's Disjunction, for the narrative - not intended - purpose of using on the Crimson Mantle and being permanently drained of all spellcasting.

That would be extremely cool.

It would make the most sense to pick at least one evocation for that extra specialty spell slot.

Oh, duh. Going on the assumption that V will avoid blasting spells, that leaves Crushing Hand, Instant Refuge, Chain Contingency, Binding Chain of Fate, Eye of Power, and Invoke Magic.

Chain Contingency would definitely make sense.

Invoke Magic could make sense since the most powerless V has ever felt is in the ABD's antimagic field, and the fact that it only allows a low level spell could be a chance to show the utility of 'weak' spells, which seems to be a theme for V now.

Crushing Hand is likely but seems a bit boring, since we've seen V cast hand spells since the start, so I hope not.

Wish is way too much of a gamebreaker...?

I feel like this is a common misconception. It's got well defined limits and explicitly says asking for more is dangerous; its main use is spell duplication.

Hmmm... I think I'm with you on that one. Too many 9th level wizard spells seem utterly broken. (Still not a D&D player)

So pick ones that aren't broken. Many lower level spells are utterly broken too, Rich's tactic so far has mainly been to not use them.

Since V has always wanted ultimate arcane power and so on, it seems like it would be good to see what they do with it now that their perspective has changed. And 1 level up doesn't seem improbable with 1.25 books left.

[Gluteus_Maximus]

I'm gonna take the long shot of "Vaarsuvius won't cast a (non-soul-splice) 9th-level spell before the comic ends".

V has a CL of 16 according to the class and level geekery thread, meaning that if V gains a level from having fought the vampires and the big undead worm then they'll have a CL of 17 so they can cast 9th level spells. If you think about it, the last couple quests have just been piles and piles of XP due to how many rando soldiers they killed and high PC-class-leveled villains they've stopped. It wouldn't be surprising to me that V could get 9th level spell slots, but it seems that they gain spells through research only (V got Mind Blank in Tinkertown) and unless the dwarves have a library that has notes on 9th level spells, they're out of luck.

[zimmerwald1915]

V has a CL of 16

17. "CL" means "caster level." She has a Wizard level of 16, and an ECL (effective character level) of 16. The extra CL is from an item.

[CriticalFailure]

Is ecl used for both effective caster level and effective character level when there's level adjustment and stuff? why the overloading? or am I just confuse

[Jasdoif]

Is ecl used for both effective caster level and effective character level when there's level adjustment and stuff? why the overloading? or am I just confuse

CL (caster level) and ECL (effective character level) are different terms, with different acronyms.

ECL only matters when dealing with experience, so it needs to be distinguished from a character's actual character level (that you'd use for DC calculations or...just about anything else that involves character level); magical effects will have whatever caster level (including bonuses from items etc.) when they're cast, so there's no need for that distinction. And I don't recall ever seeing an acronym for "character level", although sometimes it's shortened to "level" with assumed context.

[Doug Lampert]

Wish is EASY for Rich to control and a terrible, bad, cripplingly horrible choice for V. Consider the conversation:

V: Great! Now that I have leveled up I gain access to two of the most powerful magics known. I must take an evocation and will take Crushing Hand because it fits better than most evocation both with being party friendly and with my general theme! Now, for my SECOND spell I shall take Wish! Bwahaha, fear my awesome Power, as soon as I gain another 5,000 XP I'll be able to do one thing off a list. Once....

Roy: Wait, you mean you've taken a spell you can't actually cast?

V: Correct Sir Greenhilt, but after another 4 or 5 level appropriate encounters I shall be prepared to perform a mighty feat of magic.

Roy: You do realize that we're rapidly approaching the endgame? We don't HAVE another 4 or 5 level appropriate combat encounters to go before we need to finish this? What are you going to do with those high level slots?

V: Well, I get one bonus slot for evocation, I must use it for Crushing Hand. I get one slot for level 17, I will use it for Crushing Hand. And as I started with 18 Int, increased it to 22 via levels, and to 28 via my headband, I receive a bonus slot for my prodigious intellect, which I shall use for another instance of Crushing Hand.

Roy: .... You're kidding right?

V: No. Everyone on the Internet says Wish is the best spell to take at level 17.

Roy: Not Shapechange?

V: We have no one with the knowledge skills to be aware of good forms to assume.

Roy: Not Disjunction, I mean, it's not like we're fighting a couple of spell-casters with loads of magic items.

V: I might permanently lose my spell-casting ability were I to attempt disjunction with an artifact in the area of effect.

Roy: So, we have Crushing Hand, Crushing Hand, and Crushing Hand.... I guess we've still got all your lower level slots.

V: Indeed Sir Greenhilt.

Edited to add:
Roy: Well, at least we won't confuse the readers with a new spell they are unfamiliar with.

[Doug Lampert]

Just because I have too much time on my hands:

Rich tends to mostly stick to the SRD, V has banned Conj and Necro:
Thus assuming V reaches level 17 one spell must be:
Crushing Hand, Meteor Swarm, or non SRD.

The other spell can be any one of:

Freedom
Imprisonment
Mage’s Disjunction
Prismatic Sphere
Foresight
Shades
Weird
Dominate Monster
Hold Monster, Mass
Power Word Kill
Etherealness
Shapechange
Time Stop
Wish

[Elves]

V: I might permanently lose my spell-casting ability were I to attempt disjunction with an artifact in the area of effect.

You know, I really like this possibility. Great suggestion zimmerwald.

[zimmerwald1915]

You know, I really like this possibility. Great suggestion zimmerwald.

I can't take credit, the theory's been floating around for years, long enough that I don't remember in whose post I first saw it.

[Pyron]

My guess for V's 9th level spell would be...

(•_•) / ( •_•)>⌐■-■ / (⌐■_■),

Shades

[Quellian-dyrae]

What about Freedom? Not necessarily to cast personally, but to scribe a scroll of to give to Haley (who we know has solid UMD since she got a bunch of wands). It's far from guaranteed, there's definitely reasons it couldn't work, but if it offered even the chance to work around the fiends' soul trap thing in a critical situation, it might well be worth the gamble.

[magic9mushroom]

I feel like this is a common misconception. It's got well defined limits and explicitly says asking for more is dangerous; its main use is spell duplication.

This is one of the less worthwhile uses of Wish. In a dire emergency, maybe, but it's hugely expensive and there are usually ways around needing it (on the other hand, Miracle is both better than Wish at this - up to 7th-level off-list - and doesn't charge XP for the privilege, so it's actually quite useful for this purpose). Here are the things for which you actually want Wish:

1) It can give inherent bonuses, and is the least-expensive way to get them if you can't buy tomes.
2) It is the one explicit way to brute-force through anti-teleport protections. Even epic magic needs ad-hoc modifiers to do this.
3) It can create magic items - potentially extremely-powerful magic items - ex nihilo. This is generally not worth it if you have to pay the XP cost (though there are some potential exceptions, like a scroll of six True Resurrections), and it can't be done with item-sourced Wishes, but this is the reason SLA Wish is game-breaking and infinite-loop TO territory.

[Elves]

Limited Wish is totally worth it for replicating divine magic (Death Ward anyone). 300xp is nothing even by 13th.

I'd forgotten about creating scrolls. Are there non-scroll magic items people actually use Wish for, other than cheesy stuff like candles? Money's a lot easier to get than xp.

[BrotherHanson]

You know, I really like this possibility. Great suggestion zimmerwald.

Wouldn't that be perfect, really? V sacrifices spellcasting to save the party (and the world). Bonus if doing so ruins some plan the Fiends have that involves V still being a spellcaster.

[Goblin_Priest]

Well, when V had access to a crap ton of spells, what lvl 9 spells did he use?

Time Stop came first...

And then... Bigsby's Crushing Hand.

And that was all.

[zimmerwald1915]

Well, when V had access to a crap ton of spells, what lvl 9 spells did he use?

Time Stop came first...

And then... Bigsby's Crushing Hand.

And that was all.

And disjunction

[heavyfuel]

Well, when V had access to a crap ton of spells, what lvl 9 spells did he use?

Time Stop came first...

And then... Bigsby's Crushing Hand.

And that was all.

Are we forgetting Shhpshnsh?

Sorry, let me clear my throat. AHEM. Shapechange

[Squire Doodad]

Actually, I find that what V had before the Soul Splice to be far more enticing of an option.
I'm talking about what V offered Z to get in exchange for the Fly spell.
This suggests that V has in his possession Meteor Swarm, Time Stop and Wish.
...okay, fine, V probably won't use Meteor Swarm unless he is out of viable options, and he won't be able to qualify for Wish in time unless they get a convenient last-minute miniboss (Giant Dire Frost Archdaemonic Grandflea from Nowhere?). However, assuming Rich hasn't forgotten this I'd be almost willing to be that V will take Time Stop. Rich didn't plan far enough ahead for those three to be used, but he is the sort of person to consider taking a page from his older books for plot devices.

Anyways, of those three I'd say Time Stop, maaaybe Meteor Swarm. Wish seems unlikely.

Shapechange also sounds good.

Some assortment of Time Stop, Shapechange, Bigsby's Crushing Hand and Disjunction. I doubt they'd use Gate.

[Elves]

The non-evocation one is fairly variable, but evocation has fewer choices. Basically I hope that we get one of the non-core options instead of just plain ol' Crushing Hand.

Wouldn't that be perfect, really? V sacrifices spellcasting to save the party (and the world).

Well, it wouldn't be satisfying if it actually solved everything, but it would be a great end to V's arc and would certainly spice things up near the end.