Results 1,471 to 1,483 of 1483
-
2019-05-16, 05:19 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2015
-
2019-05-16, 06:07 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2009
- Location
- Valencia, Spain
- Gender
Re: Game of Thrones Season 8 (spoiler tags)
Yes. Neither of those characters has been living in a fantasy world of delusions of grandeur since they got in love with the savage monster who romantically raped her.
Arya *might* had, if they had given her a dragon right after her father was beheaded. But instead of a dragon, she was given a several-seasons-long Heroe's Journey during which she adquired superpowers by working hard and maturing to get them. Therefore she leart the "with great power comes great responsability" principle. Unlike Daenerys, she was not given far more powers than she is emotionally equiped to deal with.
The scriptwriters do not reall need any more chapters of character development to make the point that Daenerys is a child who has bern given absolute power, and behaves accordingly.
-
2019-05-16, 06:16 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2015
Re: Game of Thrones Season 8 (spoiler tags)
-
2019-05-16, 06:19 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2006
- Location
- Raleigh NC
- Gender
Re: Game of Thrones Season 8 (spoiler tags)
I don't think that's fair. I think the showrunners -- and George RR Martin -- have been deliberately trying to paint Daenerys' character as ambigious. To show her capable of great goodness and great cruelty, so you can see hints of both, before finally and decisively causing the coin to irrevocably fall one side face up.
This they did in season 8, episode 5.
So it's not surprising that there were hints of previous darkness and madness which were partly or totally defensible by extenuating circumstances (done to people who had themselves done evil, serious provocation, and so forth). This is a deliberate intended affect: they wanted Dany to be both sympathetic and terrifying right up to the point when that character made her final decision. IMO, they succeeded. The events of episode 5 are directly traceable to the earlier character. If it was rushed, well, yeah. They only had a limited number of episodes to do it in.
Respectfully,
Brian P."Every lie we tell incurs a debt to the truth. Sooner or later, that debt is paid."
-Valery Legasov in Chernobyl
-
2019-05-16, 06:29 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2009
- Location
- Valencia, Spain
- Gender
Re: Game of Thrones Season 8 (spoiler tags)
Because, until now, she had a father figure (Ser Jorah), a moral reference she respected (Varys), and an advisor she regarded as more clever than her (Tyrion).
Now she got the first killed in action, the secord executed for treason, and lose faith on the third.
She was previously a child under supervision of adults, whose validation she seek. But she is now a disgrunted teenager with no attatchment towards any adult reference figure.
-
2019-05-16, 06:34 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2006
- Gender
Re: Game of Thrones Season 8 (spoiler tags)
-
2019-05-16, 06:54 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2015
Re: Game of Thrones Season 8 (spoiler tags)
Maybe you have missed that she exiled Jorah. He only went back the last season.
She never really trusted Varys neither Tyrion, as clearly exposed when they met first time.
She made Tyrion her hand only in season 6.
In the meanwhile she was ruling Meereen alone without burning it.
You have got all these relations wrong. That she seeked Tyrion and Varys validation is such a big error that I just have no words to comment.
-
2019-05-16, 07:02 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2014
Re: Game of Thrones Season 8 (spoiler tags)
Or you could, uh... just not do it at all? Not having time to cram in believable character development is not a particular excuse for going ahead and cramming in that development regardless. The amount of time that the writers had was a variable entirely within the writers' ability to control- it's no-one else's fault if they wrote themselves into a corner.
Give directly to the extreme poor.
-
2019-05-16, 07:07 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2009
- Location
- Valencia, Spain
- Gender
Re: Game of Thrones Season 8 (spoiler tags)
Maybe you have missed how she felt after Ser Jorah was slain in battle. And she had allowed Varys and Tyrion hold her leash since she landed in Westeros. Her initial plan was to make a beeline for King's Landing and schorching it to the ground the very next second after setting foot on the continent.
There are opinions about that. Several people have already pointed some of her less-than-edificant government decissions she made there.
You have no idea how much sleep I am going to lose worring about how wrong I am.
-
2019-05-16, 07:28 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2015
-
2019-05-16, 07:35 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2011
- Location
- ICU, under a cherry tree.
- Gender
Re: Game of Thrones Season 8 (spoiler tags)
I'm behind most of this.
For me, I still don't see Dany destroying King's Landing in a fit of rage just because someone else crowns themselves king. The only way I see Dany killing all of those people is as collateral damage; if her enemies positioned their Scorpions within the crowds of commoners, or if Cersei packs commoners onto the parapets or into the keep, etc. Dany is not beyond this type of thing, which would still be beyond the pale for the "moral" characters in the show and cause actual tension that makes actual sense (I can't defeat Cersei without taking out the Scoprions/walls/keep and to do that I have to kill all these people).
What we get instead is the most unbelievable thing in a show with dragons and evil personifications of Winter.
But she never had to, and she didn't say she would. You said she said she was going to kill everyone and they could barely keep her from doing so. But we see, at least in this scene, that this did not happen. She wants to win. She wants to use her dragons to win quickly and decisively. We see, in episode 5, that this is absolutely possible without a massacre of commoners.
And yet, we never see this conversation happen this way:
Tyrion - If you go in and raze the city and kill the people of King's Landing, it will not serve you in winning over the lords of Westeros. You will be queen of the ashes.
Dany - I will destroy the walls and Cersei's armies, and take the Keep. The people have nothing to fear from my dragons.
Tyrion - Oh... well, then I guess go ahead...
Instead we get melodrama for the sake of it.
Yeah, but clearly everyone was worried she was going to raze the city to the ground. Worried because she threatened to do as much, because she's acting like a total tyrant, because she's already burning people to death for not 'bending the knee', because of her Father, and because she's the sort of person that brings an army of rapist Orcs and jackbooted Stormtroopers to Westeros.
Acting like a total tyrant - Dany suspends her campaign and pledges herself to the North's cause without Jon bending the knee to her. She sits at the table with the Lady of Winterfell and the Warden of the North beside her and listens to their counsel and does what they suggest. She tolerates Sansa's passive aggressive BS the entire time. She negotiates with Cersei. She listens to her advisors to the detriment of her own campaign over and over and over again.
Burning people for not bending the knee - She didn't burn Jon when he refused. She didn't burn Sansa when Sansa outright told her the North wouldn't follow her. Ned executed a deserter of the Nights Watch. Ned would have executed Jorah. Jon executed Janos. Stannis killed his own brother for not bending the knee. This is common in this world for people that don't follow the rules and doesn't mean Dany is capable of murdering an entire city of innocent people. Jon himself doesn't think the action is egregious, because this is normal.
Army of rapists and stormtroopers - They are completely under her control and haven't raped a single person in Westeros or torn down a single stone house. In fact, the only person we see attempting rape is a northerner. In fact, the most violence we've seen from these two armies is defending Winterfell from the Night King, literally dying in service to Dany for the lives of Westerosi people. It would make no sense for Sansa and Tyrion and Varys to see these armies as rapists and stormtroopers.
So here we have every single reason for them to have faith in Dany, and instead they alienate her and undermine her, apparently leading to her becoming the Mad Queen. Unjustified; bad writing.
No, it doesnt necessarily mean that she intends on burning down the city. But Tyrion, Varys and Jon all took it to be a distinct possibility she might.
Turns out they were right.
Yes they do. She said as much.
In what way does Dany "not have the North"? Did the North love Aerys? Did the North love Robert? Come on...
Yes, she *has*.
Right. Or the people saying they knew all along she would go mad would be saying they knew all along she'd take King's Landing without torching it.
Maybe they could have presented Dany as worse at her arc in the Slaver's Bay. But they presented her bad enough for a lot of us to catch the hint. It's not the scripwriters' fault that there are too many people out there projecting on her their own desires. "I wish I had a couple dragons so I could force everyone love me and force the real world bend into my private fantasy world where everything revolves around me and about how awesome I am because I have three dragons and absolutely no personal skills of worth".
So, GRR Martin, and D&D, taugh all those people a lesson: The world doesn't revolves around you. If you had absolute power you wouldn't fix the world. And if you want to become an influential and admired person, work hard to develope the skills for it, do not hope a Blue Prince, or a Dragon, will provide you with the praise you do not deserve. A lesson most people used to learn at puberty, but looks like an alarming number of people make it now past their teens without learning it.Castlevania II: Dracula's Curse
Sabian Skellegue, the Unyielding Wrath
IC OOC
Expedition to Castle Ravenloft
Aelki Ruasha, Void Knight of the Star Ocean
IC OOC MAP
Chult Hex Crawl
Ondros, Mazewalker of Ubtao
IC OOC Slide Deck
Retired Characters
-
2019-05-16, 07:41 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2007
- Gender
Re: Game of Thrones Season 8 (spoiler tags)
Its one of many things that season that make sense if you put it in its intended context- he isn't refusing to betray Cersei, he's a Targaryen loyalist refusing to betray (f)Aegon who the show dropped.
Plenty of people caught the hint but it takes a lot more than a seasons old hint and a few heavy handed foreshadowing statements to justify someone who's been perceived as a fundamentally good person by both the characters and the audience into a maniacal war criminal out to slaughter civilians for absolutely no reason.
-
2019-05-16, 07:59 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2006
- Location
- Raleigh NC
- Gender
Re: Game of Thrones Season 8 (spoiler tags)
Whoops! This thread is over 50 pages. Time for a new thread!
Respectfully,
Brian P."Every lie we tell incurs a debt to the truth. Sooner or later, that debt is paid."
-Valery Legasov in Chernobyl