OOTS #1161 - The Discussion Thread

[Rrmcklin]

Nah, Roy's broken way too many rules for that.

Being Lawful isn't about whether or not someone follows rules. Not that I would peg Roy as LN either way.

[Riftwolf]

Mind Blank's name, AFAICRC, may have been inspired by and old psionic power/defense mode of the same name that was explained as "emptying one's mind" in order for defending oneself against mental attacks. This draws from mystic/martial arts tales of masters whose minds can be so peaceful and empty of thought that they can't be affected by mental powers.

It's not "make someone's Mind Blank", but instead "keep your Mind Blank".

Regarding poor naming choices, the first game i was in someone won a Ring of Mind Shielding. The DM didn't check what it actually did, just went by the name, so one character got a free permanent Mind Blank until someone checked the DMG.

[Scauting]

Are humens though?

[Mightymosy]

I am, yes. That's why I think the more logical use is to make a mind blank - i.e., unable to think or remember. Not the tortured justification that it makes it seem like you're mindless, but not really be.

I can see what they were going for, but it isn't really intuitive IMO. Mind Blank brings to mind a paralytic absence of any thought more so than clarity of thought.

Yep. Until it was explained, I thought Mind Blank was an attack spell. I still don't like the name and flavour, and would prefer something like "Mind Shield".

He could also be again projecting his general attitude of "Lawful is strong, Chaotic is weak", which was one of the pillars of his characterization until this book. If we didn't have WoG that he's LG, I suspect much of the Playground would peg Durkon as LN.

Yes again. For a very long time I thought Durkon was LN, especially after he chastised Roy's sister.

Actually, I have the OotS board game, and I think he is called Lawful Bland there. Which is the best description of Durkon up until recently anyway, if you ask me =)

[5crownik007]

Astatine Elemental. Biggest you can summon.

There's no material safety data sheet for astatine. If there were, it would just be the word "NO" scrawled over and over in charred blood.

I mean, the caster would also die, so uh, maybe not?

[Riftwolf]

I mean, the caster would also die, so uh, maybe not?

I remember an XKCD What if saying if you had a shoebox full of plutonium, it'd be enough for a critical mass.
Summon Monster III/Nature's Ally II allows a small elemental. I guess getting a tiny elemental earlier would lead to too many 1st level nukes.

[Keltest]

I'd expect the super-feeblemind spell you're describing to be called something more like "blank mind". And even then, I'd wonder why it wasn't called "erase mind" or "suppress mind" or something.

And I would expect the "absolute mental self control" spell to be called something like "clear minded". A clear mind is one that has no distractions. A blank mind is one that is void of all thought (ie a moron). Heck, Elan even makes that joke.

[D.One]

Yep. Until it was explained, I thought Mind Blank was an attack spell. I still don't like the name and flavour, and would prefer something like "Mind Shield".

Old AD&D 2nd Edition Psionics had 5 "defense modes", a special kind of power used in mind battles:

Thought Shield, Mind Blank, Mental Barrier, Intellect Fortress and (the "over-the-toply" named) Tower of Iron Will.

Each one of them had advantages and disadvantages against the different kinds of telepathic attack modes: Mind Thrust, Ego Whip, Id Insinuation, Psychic Crush and Psionic Blast.

[Doug Lampert]

Old AD&D 2nd Edition Psionics had 5 "defense modes", a special kind of power used in mind battles:

Thought Shield, Mind Blank, Mental Barrier, Intellect Fortress and (the "over-the-toply" named) Tower of Iron Will.

Each one of them had advantages and disadvantages against the different kinds of telepathic attack modes: Mind Thrust, Ego Whip, Id Insinuation, Psychic Crush and Psionic Blast.

The attack and defense modes and names go back to Eldritch Wizardry, published in 1976, back when it was just D&D, before there was such a thing as AD&D or Basic D&D.

[hamishspence]

Yup. They survived as late as 3.0, but 3.5 did away with them.

[mjasghar]

And I would expect the "absolute mental self control" spell to be called something like "clear minded". A clear mind is one that has no distractions. A blank mind is one that is void of all thought (ie a moron). Heck, Elan even makes that joke.

The principle of no mind is part of Zen Buddhism and many martial arts - so I don’t get where you are coming from with this argument
No offence intended but is English not your first language as maybe it’s a translation issue?

[Keltest]

The principle of no mind is part of Zen Buddhism and many martial arts - so I don’t get where you are coming from with this argument
No offence intended but is English not your first language as maybe it’s a translation issue?

No, English is my first language, and it isn't a translation issue. Have you never heard of somebody being called "mindless" to represent them literally having no thought at all? Like, a mindless zombie? Its not an uncommon turn of phrase, I assure you. Mindless, Brainless, His mind is a blank... Heck, frequently when people are prompted for something they don't know, they'll say "im drawing a blank."

[Jasdoif]

Heck, frequently when people are prompted for something they don't know, they'll say "im drawing a blank."

Yeah. If you use divination on someone with mind blank, or try to influence their mind to get them to tell you something firsthand....you'll still draw a blank.

It probably sounded far more clever when no one was actually saying it.

[D.One]

Yeah. If you use divination on someone with mind blank, or try to influence their mind to get them to tell you something firsthand....you'll still draw a blank.

It probably sounded far more clever when no one was actually saying it.

And if you use a white pencil to draw in white paper, you will also draw a blank.



The hands of a spellcaster aren't burning when he casts Burning Hands, they are shooting fire.

Cloak of Chaos doesn't really create a cloak.

Cloudkill is not a spell to kill clouds, but one that creates a killer cloud.

Contact Other Plane doesn't contact the plane itself (because that would be dumb: "Hello, place, how are you?"), but a creature in another plane.

We can go on and on about names that doesn't describe precisely what the spell does, and many of them are way less intuitive than Mind Blank.

Edit: That said, I understand that some people won't like this or that spell name, and that's fine, we don't have to wage war about that...

[Resileaf]

[COLOR="#FFFFFF"]
Contact Other Plane doesn't contact the plane itself (because that would be dumb: "Hello, place, how are you?"), but a creature in another plane.

If you are flying on a plane, can it contact other planes?

[Jasdoif]

Contact Other Plane doesn't contact the plane itself (because that would be dumb: "Hello, place, how are you?"), but a creature in another plane.

I think it could actually work that way with sentient demiplanes.

[mjasghar]

So bigby’s hand doesn’t actually summon the actual bibgy’s hand? 🤔

[DavidSh]

If you are flying on a plane, can it contact other planes?

Airplanes, you mean?

Transponder-based collision avoidance systems can be viewed as planes contacting other planes.

"Hey! Anybody out there? Where are you, and what is your velocity?"

"I'm here, and I going this way this fast!"

"It looks like we may come very close to each other. I'd better wake up my pilot!"

[Resileaf]

Airplanes, you mean?

Transponder-based collision avoidance systems can be viewed as planes contacting other planes.

"Hey! Anybody out there? Where are you, and what is your velocity?"

"I'm here, and I going this way this fast!"

"It looks like we may come very close to each other. I'd better wake up my pilot!"

Which means that airplanes are magic.

[Fyraltari]

Which means that airplanes are magic.

Of course they are : they fly without even flapping their wings, it doesn’t make sense!

[gatemansgc]

i'm so used to redcloak's periodic elementals that it's funny seeing old fashioned classic elementals tbh

[KorvinStarmast]

If you are flying on a plane, can it contact other planes?

We have radios for that. And yes, airplanes are magic. But helicopters? They are supernatural.

[Riftwolf]

So bigby’s hand doesn’t actually summon the actual bibgy’s hand? 🤔

Or does it?
...
No, no it probably doesn't. Still, the idea of an infinitely handed wizard made of pure force *should* be part of some campaign. Its not my fault if everyone else dropped that ball.

[Rogar Demonblud]

It will be a sad day for geekdom when they clean up these language issues as part of D&D6. We'll have to find something else to mock.

[Peelee]

It will be a sad day for geekdom when they clean up these language issues as part of D&D6. We'll have to find something else to mock.

That's mighty optimistic.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Nah, my sarcasm color tags got stripped off. Anyone know why that happens sometimes when posting from mobile?

[F.Harr]

Thank goodness someone remembers.

[Ruck]

Pepperidge Farm remembers.

[Rinazina]

Looking at the [nightcrawler stat](https://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/mo.../nightcrawler/), and considering there are few vampire clerics, one of them at least 13th level, protected by a mono-directional anti magic barrier... is this the hardest challenge ever fought by the order?

I can't really see how they can win, I'll expect some surprises. One can't be enough to deal with all this necropower.

... ?

[Peelee]

Looking at the [nightcrawler stat](https://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/mo.../nightcrawler/), and considering there are few vampire clerics, one of them at least 13th level, protected by a mono-directional anti magic barrier... is this the hardest challenge ever fought by the order?

No, Xykon was the hardest challenge they faced. Twice. The second time broke the party for a while.

Also, that's a Pathfinder Nightcrawler. Not really different, but the comic isn't Pathfinder based