New OOTS products from CafePress
New OOTS t-shirts, ornaments, mugs, bags, and more
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 47
  1. - Top - End - #1
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    The Kool's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Behind Blue Eyes
    Gender
    Male

    Default Game-Warper's Optimization #5: E8 Madness!

    Hello, welcome to the the

    Game-Warper's Optimization Challenge!


    Round 5: E8 Madness!

    Have you ever looked over the plentiful E6 contests and felt simply too constrained? Well no more, I say! No more! You get an entire 2 extra levels to work with! What madness is this?!? That's for you to say. What madness IS this? Your build must prominently feature something presented in Lords of Madness, be it a class, race, feat combo, or otherwise. Races that are merely elaborated on in Lords of Madness but with stats given elsewhere count for this purpose.

    This character build will be from levels 1-8 followed by 10 epic feats. There is no hard requirement on what form your Lords of Madness element must take, but the connection must exist. Templates, races, and racial level progressions are explicitly allowed (even those found in Dragon Magazine) IF the following condition is met: The race/template must either be of the type Aberration, or appear in Lords of Madness (either the stat block itself or a segment elaborating on the race/template). The entirety of racial level progression (you can't skip out on levels), racial hit dice, and level adjustment must leave the character no higher than ECL 8, with at least one hit die (it can't be all LA). Progressions must be taken before class levels, inherited templates are applied when choosing your race, and acquired templates may be applied at any point you qualify as long as it doesn't take the build above ECL 8. Be careful going too heavy with this, high LA means few hit dice...

    Know where you came from: This competition is based on the Iron Chef Competition E6 appetizer edition rules. With the exceptions listed above, we use the same rules and same list of allowed content. As a quick recap: No Dragon Magazine (Dragon Compendium is acceptable), 3.0 content is allowed unless it has been updated to 3.5 (Dragon Magazine updates are specifically allowed), no Leadership or equivalent, no third party material, no generic classes. Flaws are frowned upon as usual, and Item Familiars continue to be banned because they are just that bad.



    By entering into this contest, you agree to become a judge. That's right, this is pay to play. Due to our contestants also judging, you are limited to one entry; should you feel compelled to submit more than one, only the last one submitted will count. When submitting an entry, PM it to the chair (me). Should you need to change anything, submit a fully updated version and I'll simply post the last given build. Be careful not to include any references to yourself in the build, I only lightly skim the builds and won't catch something buried in it that identifies you.

    The deadline for builds is two weeks from today: Monday, May 13th. You have until I get around to posting them, which could happen any time during the day.

    Once all the builds have been posted, follow these guidelines for judging:

    1. Entrants will read all of the entries and rate all the other builds. Each build must be given at least a short paragraph of observations, including at least a passing elaboration on each of the following categories: Originality, Power, Elegance, and Theme*. Entrants will not judge their own builds.

    2. The judge will summarize all of their thoughts comparing the entries into a final paragraph, and end with a first place selection and a second place selection. If there are at least 5 entries, a third place will also be chosen. Honorable Mention may also be awarded here (explain your choice if you make one), but is not required.

    3. These judgments, just like the builds, will be PM'd to the chair. Any entrant that does not judge will be disqualified. You have one week from the posting of the builds to submit your judgment. At the end of this one week period, all the judgments will be posted and a final ranking given.

    Scoring: All first place ratings will earn 4 points. All second place ratings will earn 2 points. All third place ratings, should they be needed, will earn 1 point. Ties will be broken by number of 1st place rankings, then by number of 2nd place rankings. If the builds are still tied after that, the medal is shared.

    There is no dispute process! What you see is what you get. You can discuss the judgments given after the fact, but it's too late to change anything, so keep it all in good humor, eh?

    *The four categories are mostly adopted straight from Iron Chef. Originality, Power, and Elegance use their same definitions, but Theme is the rough analogue for Use of the Special Ingredient. Since what form that takes varies from competition to competition, this category encompasses how well the build utilizes whatever element defines this round, or how well they use the given theme. For this round, it would represent how well they made use of those extra 2 levels, and how centered on LoM the build was. Did they manage something that can't be pulled off with only E6? Did they merely have a feat from LoM and barely use it? Let us know.



    Last edited by The Kool; 2019-05-03 at 09:50 PM.
    If you need me for anything, or I forgot about something, PM me and I'll see it.
    Undead- er, undying gratitude to linklele for the avatar.
    Quote Originally Posted by frogglesmash View Post
    I guess I'll amend my original statement and instead say that Pathfinder is close enough to 3.5 to spark an argument about how close it actually is.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Nerdomancer in the Playground Moderator
     
    DruidGuy

    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    Colorado, USA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Game-Warper's Optimization #5: E8 Madness!

    There is no hard requirement on what form your Lords of Madness element must take, but the connection must exist. Templates, races, and racial level progressions are explicitly allowed (even those found in Dragon Magazine)

    As a quick recap: No Dragon Magazine (Dragon Compendium is acceptable), 3.0 content is allowed unless it has been updated to 3.5
    so is or isn't dragon material acceptable? you have both...

    and to clarify, since this is e8, that means BAB +8 is ok, and 4th lvl spells/powers are ok, and skill ranks can be higher, etc... because all of these things break e6 :)
    Last edited by jdizzlean; 2019-04-22 at 01:04 PM.
    Spoiler: Medals & Current Characters
    Show

    Quote Originally Posted by Nifft View Post
    More sources, more choices, more power. Welcome to D&D.
    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee
    I mean, I have been assuming Jdizzlean looks like Nathan Fillion this whole time to start with...
    The Mod Life Crisis If you need me to address a thread as a Moderator, please include a link

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    The Kool's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Behind Blue Eyes
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Game-Warper's Optimization #5: E8 Madness!

    Quote Originally Posted by The Kool View Post
    With the exceptions listed above, we use the same rules and same list of allowed content. As a quick recap: No Dragon Magazine ...
    There's the line you missed.
    If you need me for anything, or I forgot about something, PM me and I'll see it.
    Undead- er, undying gratitude to linklele for the avatar.
    Quote Originally Posted by frogglesmash View Post
    I guess I'll amend my original statement and instead say that Pathfinder is close enough to 3.5 to spark an argument about how close it actually is.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    ElfPirate

    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Location
    Seattle, WA

    Default Re: Game-Warper's Optimization #5: E8 Madness!

    Normally in E6(/8) you can't use anything with LA, IIRC. I assume we're voiding that particular rule?
    Quote Originally Posted by Darths & Droids
    When you combine the two most devious, sneaky, manipulative, underhanded, cunning, and diabolical forces in the known universe, the consequences can be world-shattering. Those forces are, of course, players and GMs.
    Optimization Trophies

    Looking for a finished webcomic to read, or want to recommend one to others? Check out my Completed Webcomics You'd Recommend II thread!

    Or perhaps you want something Halloweeny for the season? Halloween Webcomics II

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    The Kool's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Behind Blue Eyes
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Game-Warper's Optimization #5: E8 Madness!

    Quote Originally Posted by jdizzlean View Post
    since this is e8, that means BAB +8 is ok, and 4th lvl spells/powers are ok, and skill ranks can be higher, etc... because all of these things break e6 :)
    Well yeah, but those kind of come with the territory. The Theme category refers to how well you use it, so doing so simply for an extra +2 BAB when you're not even getting an extra attack out of it seems kind of... sad, doesn't it?

    Quote Originally Posted by PoeticallyPsyco View Post
    Normally in E6(/8) you can't use anything with LA, IIRC. I assume we're voiding that particular rule?
    For the races, progressions, and templates I specifically called out, yes that particular rule is void. Just be careful, it's easy to load up on LA and cripple your actual build from lack of real levels.

    I wanted to split the standards wide open and see what you guys can do, but didn't want to give you completely free reign (hence the book restriction).
    If you need me for anything, or I forgot about something, PM me and I'll see it.
    Undead- er, undying gratitude to linklele for the avatar.
    Quote Originally Posted by frogglesmash View Post
    I guess I'll amend my original statement and instead say that Pathfinder is close enough to 3.5 to spark an argument about how close it actually is.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Nerdomancer in the Playground Moderator
     
    DruidGuy

    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    Colorado, USA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Game-Warper's Optimization #5: E8 Madness!

    understood. it's just some things can benefit from [redacted] in this round as opposed to normal e6...

    thats all i'm gonna say about that :p
    Spoiler: Medals & Current Characters
    Show

    Quote Originally Posted by Nifft View Post
    More sources, more choices, more power. Welcome to D&D.
    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee
    I mean, I have been assuming Jdizzlean looks like Nathan Fillion this whole time to start with...
    The Mod Life Crisis If you need me to address a thread as a Moderator, please include a link

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    The Kool's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Behind Blue Eyes
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Game-Warper's Optimization #5: E8 Madness!

    Quote Originally Posted by jdizzlean View Post
    understood. it's just some things can benefit from [redacted] in this round as opposed to normal e6...

    thats all i'm gonna say about that :p
    Oh absolutely. Like I said... it's about how you use it
    If you need me for anything, or I forgot about something, PM me and I'll see it.
    Undead- er, undying gratitude to linklele for the avatar.
    Quote Originally Posted by frogglesmash View Post
    I guess I'll amend my original statement and instead say that Pathfinder is close enough to 3.5 to spark an argument about how close it actually is.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Nerdomancer in the Playground Moderator
     
    DruidGuy

    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    Colorado, USA
    Gender
    Male

    Thumbs down Re: Game-Warper's Optimization #5: E8 Madness!

    i was totally basing my build off the wrong book.... time to start over lol

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    The Kool's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Behind Blue Eyes
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Game-Warper's Optimization #5: E8 Madness!

    Quote Originally Posted by jdizzlean View Post
    i was totally basing my build off the wrong book.... time to start over lol
    Well that's unfortunate!

    I also haven't gotten any builds yet. I would like a minimum of three, so I'll add a week or two if I need to to have enough. Still only a week in though, so I imagine anyone interested is still letting the ideas stew.
    If you need me for anything, or I forgot about something, PM me and I'll see it.
    Undead- er, undying gratitude to linklele for the avatar.
    Quote Originally Posted by frogglesmash View Post
    I guess I'll amend my original statement and instead say that Pathfinder is close enough to 3.5 to spark an argument about how close it actually is.

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Nerdomancer in the Playground Moderator
     
    DruidGuy

    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    Colorado, USA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Game-Warper's Optimization #5: E8 Madness!

    Quote Originally Posted by The Kool View Post
    I would like a minimum of three, so I'll add a week or two if I need to to have enough. Still only a week in though, so I imagine anyone interested is still letting the ideas stew.
    that'd be great, i have two training days this week out of the facility, so won't be able to do anything after today :(
    Spoiler: Medals & Current Characters
    Show

    Quote Originally Posted by Nifft View Post
    More sources, more choices, more power. Welcome to D&D.
    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee
    I mean, I have been assuming Jdizzlean looks like Nathan Fillion this whole time to start with...
    The Mod Life Crisis If you need me to address a thread as a Moderator, please include a link

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    ElfPirate

    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Location
    Seattle, WA

    Default Re: Game-Warper's Optimization #5: E8 Madness!

    Think I'll have to pass on this one. I don't actually have Lords of Madness, and while I've actually got an idea I'm quite fond of, it is simultaneously highly abusive and not sufficiently on-theme.
    Quote Originally Posted by Darths & Droids
    When you combine the two most devious, sneaky, manipulative, underhanded, cunning, and diabolical forces in the known universe, the consequences can be world-shattering. Those forces are, of course, players and GMs.
    Optimization Trophies

    Looking for a finished webcomic to read, or want to recommend one to others? Check out my Completed Webcomics You'd Recommend II thread!

    Or perhaps you want something Halloweeny for the season? Halloween Webcomics II

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    The Kool's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Behind Blue Eyes
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Game-Warper's Optimization #5: E8 Madness!

    Quote Originally Posted by PoeticallyPsyco View Post
    Think I'll have to pass on this one. I don't actually have Lords of Madness, and while I've actually got an idea I'm quite fond of, it is simultaneously highly abusive and not sufficiently on-theme.
    I'm curious to know what it is
    If you need me for anything, or I forgot about something, PM me and I'll see it.
    Undead- er, undying gratitude to linklele for the avatar.
    Quote Originally Posted by frogglesmash View Post
    I guess I'll amend my original statement and instead say that Pathfinder is close enough to 3.5 to spark an argument about how close it actually is.

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    ElfPirate

    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Location
    Seattle, WA

    Default Re: Game-Warper's Optimization #5: E8 Madness!

    Quote Originally Posted by The Kool View Post
    I'm curious to know what it is
    Heh, I think I'll have to wait until after the reveals. The core element is a template that's not from Lords of Madness but does change your type to aberration, so it's a valid ingredient and I'd hate to spoil it if someone else is trying something similar.
    Quote Originally Posted by Darths & Droids
    When you combine the two most devious, sneaky, manipulative, underhanded, cunning, and diabolical forces in the known universe, the consequences can be world-shattering. Those forces are, of course, players and GMs.
    Optimization Trophies

    Looking for a finished webcomic to read, or want to recommend one to others? Check out my Completed Webcomics You'd Recommend II thread!

    Or perhaps you want something Halloweeny for the season? Halloween Webcomics II

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Karrnath
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: Game-Warper's Optimization #5: E8 Madness!

    I'll look into this...
    Quote Originally Posted by Zaq View Post
    I feel like telling the ghost of Gary Gygax to hold your beer is a good way to suddenly stop being the GM, but I have to admit that this would probably be remarkably effective. At what, I dunno, but effective.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zombulian View Post
    I am continually astounded by how new you are here in contrast to how impressive your mind is.

  15. - Top - End - #15
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    The Kool's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Behind Blue Eyes
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Game-Warper's Optimization #5: E8 Madness!

    I will go ahead and confirm that I'm adding a week. New deadline: Monday, May 13.
    If you need me for anything, or I forgot about something, PM me and I'll see it.
    Undead- er, undying gratitude to linklele for the avatar.
    Quote Originally Posted by frogglesmash View Post
    I guess I'll amend my original statement and instead say that Pathfinder is close enough to 3.5 to spark an argument about how close it actually is.

  16. - Top - End - #16
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    ElfPirate

    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Location
    Seattle, WA

    Default Re: Game-Warper's Optimization #5: E8 Madness!

    You know what? I've changed my mind. I can make this work. I'm in.
    Quote Originally Posted by Darths & Droids
    When you combine the two most devious, sneaky, manipulative, underhanded, cunning, and diabolical forces in the known universe, the consequences can be world-shattering. Those forces are, of course, players and GMs.
    Optimization Trophies

    Looking for a finished webcomic to read, or want to recommend one to others? Check out my Completed Webcomics You'd Recommend II thread!

    Or perhaps you want something Halloweeny for the season? Halloween Webcomics II

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Nerdomancer in the Playground Moderator
     
    DruidGuy

    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    Colorado, USA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Game-Warper's Optimization #5: E8 Madness!

    thanks for the extra time, build in!
    Spoiler: Medals & Current Characters
    Show

    Quote Originally Posted by Nifft View Post
    More sources, more choices, more power. Welcome to D&D.
    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee
    I mean, I have been assuming Jdizzlean looks like Nathan Fillion this whole time to start with...
    The Mod Life Crisis If you need me to address a thread as a Moderator, please include a link

  18. - Top - End - #18
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    The Kool's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Behind Blue Eyes
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Game-Warper's Optimization #5: E8 Madness!

    So we've got one in, one working, and one maybe... That would be a decent run.
    If you need me for anything, or I forgot about something, PM me and I'll see it.
    Undead- er, undying gratitude to linklele for the avatar.
    Quote Originally Posted by frogglesmash View Post
    I guess I'll amend my original statement and instead say that Pathfinder is close enough to 3.5 to spark an argument about how close it actually is.

  19. - Top - End - #19
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Karrnath
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: Game-Warper's Optimization #5: E8 Madness!

    Trying to find time. That's my biggest issue
    Quote Originally Posted by Zaq View Post
    I feel like telling the ghost of Gary Gygax to hold your beer is a good way to suddenly stop being the GM, but I have to admit that this would probably be remarkably effective. At what, I dunno, but effective.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zombulian View Post
    I am continually astounded by how new you are here in contrast to how impressive your mind is.

  20. - Top - End - #20
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    ElfPirate

    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Location
    Seattle, WA

    Default Re: Game-Warper's Optimization #5: E8 Madness!

    There we go, mine's in.
    Quote Originally Posted by Darths & Droids
    When you combine the two most devious, sneaky, manipulative, underhanded, cunning, and diabolical forces in the known universe, the consequences can be world-shattering. Those forces are, of course, players and GMs.
    Optimization Trophies

    Looking for a finished webcomic to read, or want to recommend one to others? Check out my Completed Webcomics You'd Recommend II thread!

    Or perhaps you want something Halloweeny for the season? Halloween Webcomics II

  21. - Top - End - #21
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    The Kool's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Behind Blue Eyes
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Game-Warper's Optimization #5: E8 Madness!

    That's two! Plenty of time for more, folks.
    If you need me for anything, or I forgot about something, PM me and I'll see it.
    Undead- er, undying gratitude to linklele for the avatar.
    Quote Originally Posted by frogglesmash View Post
    I guess I'll amend my original statement and instead say that Pathfinder is close enough to 3.5 to spark an argument about how close it actually is.

  22. - Top - End - #22
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2007

    Default Re: Game-Warper's Optimization #5: E8 Madness!

    Quote Originally Posted by PoeticallyPsyco View Post
    Normally in E6(/8) you can't use anything with LA, IIRC. I assume we're voiding that particular rule?

    Quote Originally Posted by E6's Rules, pg10 in v41
    Q: With only 6 levels, how do races with a level adjustment work?
    A: If you use races with a level adjustment, the 6th level cap is a big issue. Use the point buy rules in the DMG as follows:
    LA POINT BUY
    +0 32
    +1 25
    +2 18
    +3 10
    +4 00
    Thus, +LA races should start with zero LA, but use the point buy listed here. Keep in mind the difference between LA and racial hit dice (the two combine to give starting ECL).
    I guess you mean the OP's rules ban them, because E6 has has allowed it for at least the last twelve years. *shrugs*
    Last edited by Mato; 2019-05-09 at 05:26 PM.

  23. - Top - End - #23
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    The Kool's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Behind Blue Eyes
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Game-Warper's Optimization #5: E8 Madness!

    Normally in Iron Chef E6 competitions, LA is banned. I assume that is what was meant.
    If you need me for anything, or I forgot about something, PM me and I'll see it.
    Undead- er, undying gratitude to linklele for the avatar.
    Quote Originally Posted by frogglesmash View Post
    I guess I'll amend my original statement and instead say that Pathfinder is close enough to 3.5 to spark an argument about how close it actually is.

  24. - Top - End - #24
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2007

    Default Re: Game-Warper's Optimization #5: E8 Madness!

    Quote Originally Posted by The Kool View Post
    Normally in Iron Chef E6 competitions, LA is banned. I assume that is what was meant.
    Maybe.

    Kool, the OP, has removed his limit on it and his answer doesn't actually clarify if he is using E6's rule or just calling this deal "E6". So if the OP means E6, and not "level 8 with +10 feats", the LA/PB rule returns and a few well fitting races are adjusted to having a +0 LA modifier. This fits the spirit of the event and Kool's usage of referring to his challenges as E6, but he also said RHD/LA can't take you past ECL8 and has banned all of E6's added content. You could go either way with Kool, but at least I could go with PoeticallyPsyco forgetting some details of E6's rule set.
    Last edited by Mato; 2019-05-09 at 09:10 PM.

  25. - Top - End - #25
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    The Kool's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Behind Blue Eyes
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Game-Warper's Optimization #5: E8 Madness!

    Quote Originally Posted by Mato View Post
    Kool, the OP, has removed his limit on it and his answer doesn't actually clarify if he is using E6's rule or just calling this deal "E6". So if the OP means E6, and not "level 8 with +10 feats", the LA/PB rule returns and a few well fitting races are adjusted to having a +0 LA modifier. This fits the spirit of the event and Kool's usage of referring to his challenges as E6, but he also said RHD/LA can't take you past ECL8 and has banned all of E6's added content. You could go either way with Kool, but at least I could go with PoeticallyPsyco forgetting some details of E6's rule set.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Kool View Post
    Templates, races, and racial level progressions are explicitly allowed (even those found in Dragon Magazine) IF the following condition is met: The race/template must either be of the type Aberration, or appear in Lords of Madness (either the stat block itself or a segment elaborating on the race/template). ...

    This competition is based on the Iron Chef Competition E6 appetizer edition rules. With the exceptions listed above, we use the same rules and same list of allowed content.
    Right you are! The quote above is pretty much all I said on the matter, so I will qualify for our applicants: The point-buy-adjustment rules are intended to buy off your level adjustment at character creation, so that you can still have as many levels as the next guy. I don't feel that's entirely in the spirit of this competition as it isn't exactly a level playing field once you do that, and it's party of the reason I gave you two extra levels to work with. So no, you may not buy off LA with fewer PB. You have to suffer the loss in hit dice like the rest of us. Figure out for yourself whether it's worth it.
    If you need me for anything, or I forgot about something, PM me and I'll see it.
    Undead- er, undying gratitude to linklele for the avatar.
    Quote Originally Posted by frogglesmash View Post
    I guess I'll amend my original statement and instead say that Pathfinder is close enough to 3.5 to spark an argument about how close it actually is.

  26. - Top - End - #26
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    The Kool's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Behind Blue Eyes
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Game-Warper's Optimization #5: E8 Madness!

    That's three in! Just a reminder to anyone else who might be interested and quiet, you still have the weekend to build. Reveal on Monday!
    If you need me for anything, or I forgot about something, PM me and I'll see it.
    Undead- er, undying gratitude to linklele for the avatar.
    Quote Originally Posted by frogglesmash View Post
    I guess I'll amend my original statement and instead say that Pathfinder is close enough to 3.5 to spark an argument about how close it actually is.

  27. - Top - End - #27
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    ElfPirate

    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Location
    Seattle, WA

    Default Re: Game-Warper's Optimization #5: E8 Madness!

    One day left!
    Quote Originally Posted by Darths & Droids
    When you combine the two most devious, sneaky, manipulative, underhanded, cunning, and diabolical forces in the known universe, the consequences can be world-shattering. Those forces are, of course, players and GMs.
    Optimization Trophies

    Looking for a finished webcomic to read, or want to recommend one to others? Check out my Completed Webcomics You'd Recommend II thread!

    Or perhaps you want something Halloweeny for the season? Halloween Webcomics II

  28. - Top - End - #28
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    The Kool's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Behind Blue Eyes
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Game-Warper's Optimization #5: E8 Madness!

    A one day extension due to when my free time is...
    If you need me for anything, or I forgot about something, PM me and I'll see it.
    Undead- er, undying gratitude to linklele for the avatar.
    Quote Originally Posted by frogglesmash View Post
    I guess I'll amend my original statement and instead say that Pathfinder is close enough to 3.5 to spark an argument about how close it actually is.

  29. - Top - End - #29
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    The Kool's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Behind Blue Eyes
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Game-Warper's Optimization #5: E8 Madness!

    I present to you, in no particular order, our three entries!

    Spoiler: Warped One
    Show
    Spoiler: Warped One the Lawful Evil Human Voidmind Fighter 1/Psychic Warrior 4
    Show


    Stat Base Final
    Strength 16 20
    Dexterity 12 14
    Constitution 14 19
    Intelligence 10 12
    Wisdom 14 14
    Charisma 12 10

    Spoiler: Stub
    Show

    Level Class Base Attack Bonus Fort Save Ref Save Will Save Skills Feats Class Features
    1st Fighter +1 +2 +0 +0 Intimidate +4, Spot +2, Psicraft +2 Thrall Bred, Aberrant Dragonmark(F), Improved Unarmed Strike(B), Symbiont Mastery
    2nd Voidmind Template +4 Bluff Alertness(B) +4 Natural Armor, Sentient Tentacle, Cone of Slime
    3rd Voidmind Template +4 Escape Artist Combat Reflexes(B) Improved Grab, Constrict, DR 5/Magic
    4th Voidmind Template +4 Intimidate Great Fortitude(B) Illithid Host, SR 10+HD, +4 Str, +2 Dex, +4 Con, +2 Int, -2 Cha
    5th Psychic Warrior +1 +4 +0 +0 Intimidate +5, Spot +2, Psicraft +3 Illithid Heritage
    6th Psychic Warrior +2 +5 +0 +0 Intimidate +6, Spot +2, Psicraft +4 Illithid Skin, Aberrant Blood (Flexible Limbs)
    7th Psychic Warrior +3 +5 +1 +1 Intimidate +7, Spot +2, Psicraft +5
    8th Psychic Warrior +4 +6 +1 +1 Intimidate +8, Spot +2, Psicraft +6
    1 Epic Illithid Grapple
    2 Epic Inhuman Reach
    3 Epic Extended Reach
    4 Epic Deepspawn
    5 Epic Improved Natural Attack: Tentacle
    6 Epic Mark of Madness
    7 Epic Mark of Xoriat
    8 Epic Warped Mind
    9 Epic Durable Form
    10 Epic Improved Grapple

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonmarked page 158
    A character whose mark is clearly visible must deal with the consequences of carrying it, as determined by the DM. If a character with an aberrant dragonmark can expect to receive a consistently hostile or unfriendly reaction from NPCs, a DM might want to consider treating the aberrant dragonmark as aboth a flaw (as described in
    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonmarked page 158
    Unearthed Arcana) and a feat. This effectively allows a character to take Aberrant Dragonmark as a bonus feat because he suffers a significant social penalty for doing so.

    Spoiler: Warped One Statblock
    Show

    Size/Type: Medium Humanoid (Psionic)
    Hit Dice: 1d10 + 4d8 + 38 (68 hp)
    Initiative: +2
    Speed: 30 ft. (6 squares)
    Armor Class: 25 (+8 armor +2 dex +5 natural), touch 12, flat-footed 23
    Base Attack/Grapple: +4/+15 (+19 witn Sentient Tentacle)
    Attack: Tentacle +8(+9) (1d6+5 plus Improved Grab) or Sentient Tentacle +8(+9) (1d8+5 plus Improved Grab)
    Full Attack: 2 Tentacles +8(+9) (1d6+5), 1 Tentacle +3(+4) (1d6+2 plus Improved Grab), Claw +3(+4) (1d4+2), Unarmed Strike +3(+4) (1d3+2) and Sentient Tentacle +8(+9) (1d8+5 Plus Improved Grab)
    Space/Reach: 5 ft./15 ft. (20 with tentacle)
    Special Attacks: Sentient Tentacle, Improved Grab, Constrict (1d6), Cone of Slime, Dragonmarks, Psionics
    Special Qualities: DR 5/Magic+Byeshk, SR 15, Illithid Host
    Saves: Fort +12(+13), Ref +3(+4), Will +7(+8)
    Abilities: Str 20, Dex 14, Con 18 (normally 19), Int 12, Wis 14, Cha 10
    Skills: Intimidate +12, Spot +6, Psicraft +7, +4 Bluff, +6 Escape Artist
    Feats: Thrall Bred, Aberrant Dragonmark, Improved Unarmed Strike, Symbiont Mastery, Alertness, Combat Reflexes, Great Fortitude, Illithid Heritage, Illithid Skin, Aberrant Blood, Illithid Grapple, Inhuman Reach, Extended Reach, Deepspawn, Improved Natural Attack: Tentacle, Mark of Madness, Mark of Xoriat, Warped Mind, Durable Form, Improved Grapple

    Sentient Tentacle (Ex): A voidmind creature's tentacle attacks of its own accord. The creature can direct it to attack certain targets, but the psionic nature of the tentacle enables it to flex and move in combat without hindering the creature's other combat abilities. A voidmind creature that has successfully grappled a creature with its tentacle can attack another creature at no penalty, as long as that creature is within a distance equal of the tentacle's reach.

    Improved Grab (Ex): To use this ability, a voidmind creature must hit a creature of its size category or smaller with its tentacle attack. It can then attempt to start a grapple as a free action without provoking attacks of opportunity. A voidmind creature has a +4 racial bonus on grapple checks made with its tentacle. If the creature wins the grapple check, it establishes a hold and can constrict.

    Constrict (Ex): A voidmind creature gains the ability to constrict its victim with a successful grapple check. When it constricts, one of its tentacles deals damage based on the creature's size (1d6), plus its strength bonus x 1-1/2.

    Cone of Slime (Su): Once per day as a standard action, a voidmind creature can expel the psionically charged slime in its head in a 30-foot cone. This attack deals 5d6 points of acid damage. A successful reflex save DC 16 halves the damage. In addition any creature that takes damage from the spray takes a -2 penalty on its will save and is stunned for 1d4+1 rounds (fort save DC 16 negates the stun.) The psionic slime replenishes itself automatically in 24 hours.

    Dragonmarks: 3/day Lesser Madness (DC 11 will save) CL 2, 1/day Shield CL 2.

    Psionics: 1st: Grip of Iron, Expansion, Bite of the Wolf, 2nd: Body Adjustment; 17 Power Points

    Illithid Host (Su): Three illithids form a bond with any voidmind creature they create. A different illithid cannot bond itself to a voidmind creature after creation. The creature's masters are instantly aware if the creature takes any damage, wanders out of range of their control, or is the target of any magic.
    Also as a result of this bond, the masters can, as a standard action, see and hear through the eyes and ears of their bonded voidmind creature to a range of five miles. Maintaining this link requires an illithid to concentrate, but the illithid remains aware of its surroundings and can move normally.


    Finally, any one of the three masters can take control of the voidmind creature, at will, as the dominate monster spell (no save). While controlling the voidmind creature in this fashion, an illithid can manifest its own innate psionic abilities through the voidmind creature, as though the creature were manifesting the ability itself. Any of the illithid's psionic powers used in this fashion can target or affect creatures within range, line of sight, and line of effect of the voidmind creature. So, for example, an illithid can use plane shift to send the voidmind creature to another plane, or it could send itself to another plane. Likewise, the illithid could use suggestion on a target it sees through the voidmind creature's eyes.

    Spoiler: Tactics
    Show
    Er.. You have a melee brute with natural attacks. They are rather simple. You have buff powers and a healing power. You will employ your slime attack only if you need to flee. Otherwise your always near at least one of your 3 illithid masters, and they may take direct control over you. However when they take direct control over you, your just dominated, meaning you do what they tell your to do (which you would have done anyways) and now they can manifest through you, which is a scary trick even if they only do this for one round.
    Spoiler: Tactics
    Show



    You have 6-7 natural attacks to run with, and your grapple mod is pretty good. You can manifest Grip of Iron as an immediate to boost your grapple by 2 more, pushing it to +17/+21. You have improved grab with your sentient tentacle (with constriction to boot) and improved grab with one of your 3 normal tentacles. You have a 15’ reach and a 20’ sentient tentacle reach. Use this to your advantage! Lock down one enemy with the sentient tentacle, and if there is only one other target lock it down with your own grapple, if there are more then just beat them up. Since the illithids can see through your eyes, and your their invested physical guardian, they probably don’t want you to die. Make a prearranged sign that they’ll assist you, like a hand movement that you tells the illithid to mind blast. Although they are smart enough to know how to save your pathetic life.


    Spoiler: Sources
    Show
    What you need these?
    Spoiler: Sources
    Show

    Voidmind Template is in MM3
    Feats are in CP, XPH, ECS, Dragonmarked, LoM (obviously), and Savage Species


    [Judge's Note: I apologize to this builder, I had to purge the excessive formatting from yours. I hope I didn't mess anything up.]

    Spoiler: The Siege Tower
    Show
    Our story begins with two kobolds; Yap-Yap the Destroyer and her brother Yip-Yip the Cunning. Both are rangers; Yap-Yap following the path of twin blades and Yip-Yip the straight and arrow path of archery. And both are devout followers of Bahamut, the Platinum Dragon. The two had many adventures, and thwarted the machinations of Tiamat wherever they went. In one such adventure, they happened upon a plot to create more minions of the Dragon Queen by combining humans and reptiles with dark magic. They defeated the cultists, put an end to the experiments, and freed the creatures slated for experimentation and the few survivors of said experiments. One such former experiment was a half-human half-snake by the name of Sassafras, and despite being much weaker than the kobold siblings, she decided to join and support them on their crusade. The three went on many more adventures together, and eventually decided to take their devotion to the Platinum Dragon to the next level, undergoing the Rite of Rebirth together.

    And here, dear listener, is where things become interesting. Because when I say they underwent the rite together, I mean that literally. And when they emerged from the single egg they had shared, by blessing, curse, or simple coincidence, something very strange had happened. The three had fused together into a single being, sharing in mind, body, and skill. At first they were horrified by this transformation, but after experimentation revealed that they were fully capable of separating and rejoining, the trio began to wonder if this wasn’t more gift than hindrance. While joined, they combined Sassafras’ native agility and divine combat prowess, Yip-Yip’s skill with ranged attacks and cunning, and Yap-Yap’s talent of using many weapons at once (even with her tail!). Separate, they were a formidable team, but together… they became an unstoppable mobile weapons platform, hurling a veritable storm of daggers or wading into melee to heal their allies while damaging the foes of Bahamut. Further experiments with their new form yielded even more natural weapons and increased versatility. Eventually the trio became known as The Siege Tower, after that staple of warfare that shelters allied troops while spewing ranged attacks at the enemy.




    Spoiler: Build
    Show
    Yep, this is the Symbiotic Creature template at work. Sassafras qualifies as a host by merit of the Human Heritage feat. While I don’t think the combination gets to keep the kobolds’ class levels, it very clearly keeps their feats (and since they’re bonus feats, The Siege Tower doesn’t even need to meet the prerequisites after the transformation). For clarity’s sake, I’m including tables for Yap-Yap and Yip-Yip (sans skills, which do not carry over) as well as for Sassafras. The transformation occurs when the kobold siblings are level 6 and Sassafras is level 5.


    Spoiler: Yap-Yap the Destroyer
    Show
    Yap-Yap the Destroyer
    LG Small Humanoid (dragonblood, reptilian)
    Kobold Champion of the Wild Ranger 6
    Level Class Base Attack Bonus Fort Save Ref Save Will Save Feats Class Features
    1st Champion of the Wild Ranger 1 +1 +2 +2 +0 Dragon Tail, Track (B) Favored Enemy (dragons +2), Track, Wild Empathy
    2nd Ranger 2 +2 +3 +3 +0 Two Weapon Fighting (B) Combat Style
    3rd Ranger 3 +3 +3 +3 +1 Endurance (B), Weapon Focus (daggers) Endurance
    4th Ranger 4 +4 +4 +4 +1 Weapon Finesse (B) Animal Companion, Bonus Feat
    5th Ranger 5 +5 +4 +4 +1 Favored Enemy (dragons +4, humanoid (reptilian) +2)
    6th Ranger 6 +6 +5 +5 +2 Improved Two Weapon Fighting (B), Prehensile Tail Improved Combat Style
    Rite of Rebirth +6 +5 +5 +2 Draconic Aspect (heart)


    Initial Ability Scores (pre-racial adjustments):
    17 STR, 17 DEX, 12 CON, 8 INT, 10 WIS, 8 CHA


    Final Ability Scores:
    13 STR, 18 DEX, 12 CON, 8 INT, 10 WIS, 8 CHA

    Spoiler: Yip-Yip the Cunning
    Show
    Yip-Yip the Cunning
    CG Small Humanoid (dragonblood, reptilian)
    Kobold Champion of the Wild Ranger 6
    Level Class Base Attack Bonus Fort Save Ref Save Will Save Feats Class Features
    1st Champion of the Wild Urban Ranger 1 +1 +2 +2 +0 Point Blank Shot, Urban Tracking (B) Favored Enemy (humanoids (reptilian) +2), Urban Tracking, Wild Empathy
    2nd Ranger 2 +2 +3 +3 +0 Rapid Shot (B) Combat Style
    3rd Ranger 3 +3 +3 +3 +1 Endurance (B), Precise Shot Endurance
    4th Ranger 4 +4 +4 +4 +1 Combat Reflexes (B) Animal Companion, Bonus Feat
    5th Ranger 5 +5 +4 +4 +1 Favored Enemy (dragons +2, humanoids (reptilian) +4)
    6th Ranger 6 +6 +5 +5 +2 Manyshot (B), Martial Study (cloak of deception) Improved Combat Style
    Rite of Rebirth +6 +5 +5 +2 Endurance → Dragon Tail Draconic Aspect (mind)


    Initial Ability Scores (pre-racial adjustments):
    STR 14, DEX 15, CON 8, INT 14, WIS 14, CHA 14


    Final Ability Scores:
    STR 10, DEX 16, CON 8, INT 14, WIS 14, CHA 14



    Sassafras/The Siege Tower
    NG Large Humanoid (augmented aberration, aug. monstrous humanoid, dragonblood, human)


    Symbiotic Creature Anthropomorphic Huge Viper/Kobold/Kobold 3HD/ Crusader 2/ Master Thrower 1
    ECL Class Base Attack Bonus Fort Save Ref Save Will Save Skills Feats Class Features
    3rd Anthropomorphic Huge Viper 3HD +3 +3 +3 +1 Balance +5, Spot +4 Human Heritage, Aberration Blood (bulging eyes) Bite (1d4 + poison), Poison (1d6 Con damage), 20ft land/climb/swim speed, Scent
    4th Crusader 1 +4 +5 +3 +1 Balance +5, Knowledge (history) +1, Knowledge (religion) +2, Spot +4 Furious Counterstrike, Steely Resolve 5
    5th Crusader 2 +5 +6 +3 +1 Balance +5, Knowledge (history) +1, Knowledge (religion) +3, Spot +5 Indomitable Soul
    Rite of Rebirth +5 +6 +3 +1 Balance +5, Knowledge (history) +1, Knowledge (religion) +3, Spot +5 Draconic Aspect (wings), lose bite and poison, lose Scent
    7th Symbiotic Creature template x2 +5 +6 +3 +1 Balance +5, Knowledge (history) +1, Knowledge (religion) +3, Spot +5 Combat Reflexes (B), Dragon Tail (B), Endurance (B), Improved Two Weapon Fighting (B), Manyshot (B), Martial Study (cloak of deception) (B), Point Blank Shot (B), Precise Shot (B), Prehensile Tail (B), Rapid Shot (B), Track (B), Two Weapon Fighting (B), Urban Tracking (B), Weapon Finesse (B), Weapon Focus (daggers) (B) +4 hands, +2 tails (secondary, 1d4), Draconic Aspect (heart), Draconic Aspect (mind), Detach
    8th Master Thrower 1 +6 +6 +5 +1 Balance +5, Knowledge (history) +1, Knowledge (religion) +3, Spot +8, Tumble +2 Multiweapon Fighting, Quick Draw (B) Quick Draw, Thrown Weapon Trick (palm throw)
    Epic Feats:
    1. Improved Rapid Shot
    2. Martial Stance (assassin’s stance)
    3. Shadow Blade
    4. Inhuman Reach
    5. Deepspawn
    6. Extra Granted Maneuver
    7. Graft Flesh (silthilar)
    8. Starspawn
    9. Waterspawn
    10. Durable Form


    Ability Scores:
    ECL STR DEX CON INT WIS CHA
    0th 17 18 12 8 8 7
    3rd 9 28 10 8 14 3
    4th 10 28 10 8 14 3
    5th 10 26 12 8 14 3
    7th 10 26 12 14 14 14



    Spoiler: Breakdown
    Show
    Woo boy is there a lot to talk about here.


    Yap-Yap and Yip-Yip:
    Fairly standard rangers, foregoing spellcasting in favor of greater martial prowess (bonus feats). I chose this route because since they’re built around attacking and feats they barely lose any class features (just animal companions, Wild Empathy, and Favored Enemies) or even action economy, making it far more reasonable that they would choose to stay together in symbiosis. They are kobolds because they are a small race with 0 LA, and because it works really well with the reptilian/Dragonborn theme.


    Sassafras Race:
    I searched long and hard for a large race with no level adjustment (making it legal for E8). Like the fable of the magic feather, it was of course where I had started all along, in Savage Species. Human Heritage reflects her status as partly human (and sets up the symbiosis later); Aberrant Blood likewise sets up some later feats but also felt appropriate for an abomination of magic/science. If you want to go even cheesier (yes, that’s possible), Anthropomorphic Baleen Whale is also LA +0 and has better stats overall, though worse dexterity. However, it’s far less on-theme.


    Crusader 1-2:
    Sassafras is lower level than her comrades, so Crusader is a natural pick for both thematic reasons and to support Yap-Yap and Yip-Yip with stances and maneuvers; Steely Resolve compensates nicely for her relatively low HP. At first level she knows Crusader’s Strike (healing), Vanguard Strike and Lead the Attack (help allies hit), Douse the Flames (help allies, especially Yip-Yip, escape), Charging Minotaur (out of actually beneficial support maneuvers; this one is at least fun), and Iron Guard’s Glare (stance, penalize enemies for attacking her allies). At 2nd level she grabs Martial Spirit (stance) for more healing options. This and Furious Counterstrike become much more significant later. At Crusader 1 she also boosts her Strength to 10.


    Dragonborn of Bahamut:
    Dragonborn was chosen for the build because it provides a reason for symbiosis to occur. The fluff was then built around this, but I have to say I’m pretty happy with how it all works together. Mechanically, it also lets Yip-Yip retrain the relatively useless Endurance to Dragon Tail, and gives Sassafras/The Siege Tower some extra HP at the expense of Dexterity. Each member of the trio chooses a different Draconic Aspect in accordance with their personality.


    Symbiotic Creature:
    And here we are. The beating heart of the build. This template isn’t from Lords of Madness, but it does change your type to aberration, which makes it both legal and on-theme. However, the Human Heritage feat that makes Sassafras a viable host doesn’t just go away; it promptly resets the combination of her and Yap-Yap to humanoid again, making them a viable host for Yip-Yip (and then they promptly get reset back to Humanoid (human) again, so they still qualify for Aberrant Blood). This combination, henceforth referred to as The Siege Tower, keeps all of Sassafras’ feats and gets all of Yap-Yap’s and Yip-Yip’s feats as bonus feats (meaning The Siege Tower no longer needs to meet the prerequisites for Prehensile Tail to benefit from it). They also keep all their attack forms, special attacks (like Yap-Yap’s dragon breath), special qualities (like Yip-Yip’s immunity to paralysis and sleep effects), and bonuses to skill checks (like Yip-Yip’s bonuses to Spot, Listen, and Search, and arguably the skill bonuses from Favored Enemy). I think that first one makes it pretty clear that The Siege Tower keeps the arms of the guests (bringing the total up to 6 arms), but if you and/or your DM disagree you can drop the Dragonborn from Yap-Yap and Yip-Yip and use the variant kobold with 2 claws (and a bite). This requires some reshuffling of feats (and costs you a feat of your choice from Yip-Yip), but unambiguously gives The Siege Tower 4 extra claws that can be used to wield weapons, as well as two bite attacks (1d3, secondary) that can be used in melee, at the price of the other two Draconic Aspects. Keeping the siblings’ natural weapons means The Siege Tower gets two tails, and getting Dragon Tail as a bonus feat gives them a third. As for ability scores, The Siege Tower keeps Sassafras’ fantastic Dexterity and decent Constitution and replaces her bad Intelligence and abysmal Charisma with Yip-Yip’s strong scores in each. Last but not least, the trio can detach Voltron style if doing so becomes beneficial (e.g. social situations and panicked retreats), though it takes a full day to reattach.


    Master Thrower:
    At this point The Siege Tower has 6 arms, three tails that can be used as arms, an iterative attack from BAB +6, and two more extra attacks from TWF and Rapid Shot. Now that we’ve got Multiweapon Fighting to take advantage of all this, the logical next step is the Palm Throw trick, which lets you throw two daggers with each of those attacks. Yes you read that right, we’re up to twenty four (24!) thrown daggers per round, that can be thrown into melee without penalty. With 12 attack rolls in a typical round, Weapon Focus and especially Furious Counterstrike (which also applies to all 24 damage rolls) really pull their weight. Now, a lot of these daggers are probably small in size, and you don’t get to add your Strength bonus to damage (which is +0, so no tears shed there), but still! The Siege Tower is nearly as formidable in melee; less damage, but with Martial Spirit active they can be healing two damage to themselves or any ally within 30ft with every successful hit, and don’t forget unarmed strikes (sure you’re provoking opportunity attacks if they’re inside your reach, but with that much healing who cares?). I don’t actually know if the kobold daggers benefit from the reach of now being a large creature; RAW I think they do, but it’s not especially significant either way. And don’t forget you can mix thrown and melee daggers.


    Spoiler: Feats (all 27 of them)
    Show
    • Human Heritage makes this whole thing possible, and gives you a few extra skill points to boot.
    • Aberration Blood qualifies you for some lovely feats, is thematic with your backstory, and gives you a +2 bonus to Spot checks.
    • You have both Track and Urban Tracking.
    • Endurance. Eh, it’s okay, especially since it’s several kinds of free.
    • Dragon Tail and Prehensile Tail. Now we’re talking. These two (three if you count Yip-Yip) give us 3 extra attacks, which means up to 6 extra daggers. Yap-Yap qualifies for Prehensile Tail so we don’t have to. You technically get a second copy of Dragon Tail, but arguing that that gives you a fourth tail would be abusive (you know, unlike the rest of this build).
    • Weapon Finesse. Yap-Yap gets this as a Ranger bonus feat, which is nice because it doesn’t fit into Sassafras’ build.
    • TWF and Improved TWF – we can’t qualify for Improved Multiweapon Fighting, but Improved TWF still nets us one extra attack.
    • Weapon Focus is a prerequisite; Yap-Yap takes it because she’s dual-wielding daggers like a boss.
    • Point Blank Shot, Rapid Shot, and Precise Shot are prerequisites for Master Thrower. Yip-Yip takes them because he’s going archery ranger.
    • Manyshot could come in handy; after all we’ve only got so much range with thrown daggers. We have more than enough Dexterity to tank the penalty to hit.
    • Combat Reflexes. It was a bonus feat available to Yip-Yip, when he already had all the good feats he qualified for from the list. It’s much more helpful to The Siege Tower, with their reach and absurd Dexterity.
    • Martial Study (cloak of deception) was a solid pick for Yip-Yip (inspired by Sassafras’ combat maneuvers). The really snazzy thing is that because Sassafras is already a martial initiator, The Siege Tower adds it to maneuvers known rather than getting it as a once-per-encounter ability.
    • Multiweapon Fighting – duh.
    • Improved Rapid Shot. You can look at it as +2 to all attack rolls that turn or as an additional attack for free. Either way, it’s good.
    • Martial Stance (assassin’s stance). Here we once again see Yip-Yip’s influence. Cloak of Deception is a swift action, so every few rounds this is +2d6 damage to 12+ attacks (precision damage, so you don’t get to apply it to both daggers from Palm Throw).
    • Shadow Blade – why yes, stances do count as maneuvers, so we qualify for this. Dexterity added to all melee damage with our daggers.
    • Inhuman Reach. Our second aberration feat, this is really good with Combat Reflexes.
    • Deepspawn – two tentacles, for two free attacks in our routine. For some reason, tentacles aren’t on the list of Shadow Hand weapons, but if we get our hands on some weapons with the Opposable (+1) property, once we pass them to our tentacles we can reap the benefits of Shadow Blade, 30ft reach, and/or more thrown attacks (though for thrown attacks we probably want the weapon to also be Returning).
    • Extra Granted Maneuver is good on any Crusader; here it also means we’re getting Cloak of Deception more reliably and more frequently.
    • Graft Flesh (silthilar) can be used to fill in for magic items we haven’t gotten yet. Bonuses to Strength, Dexterity, Constitution, natural armor, and movement speed, as well as fast healing and an immunity to being flanked, are all on the table with this feat. (We probably don’t need the bonus to Dexterity based skills, but that’s also available).
    • Starspawn synergizes really well with Draconic Aspect (wings), giving you a slower flight speed that doesn’t have a daily limit to use in between gliding for low-stakes aerial movement.
    • Waterspawn likewise improves your versatility, giving you the ability to breathe underwater and some cold resistance 5 as a bonus. In a campaign without water, probably swap this out for something else (maybe Bestial Hide). In a heavily aquatic campaign, take this sooner.
    • Durable Form is our final feat, and gives us a lovely 12 extra HP to make us a bit tankier and make up for losing 2 HD to LA.


    Spoiler: Sources
    Show
    Cityscape – Urban Ranger (web enhancement), Urban Tracking (web enhancement)
    Complete Warrior – Master Thrower, Improved Rapid Shot
    Lords of Madness – Aberrant Blood, Deepspawn, Durable Form, Graft Flesh, Inhuman Reach, Starspawn, Waterspawn, Silthilar grafts
    Races of Destiny – Human Heritage
    Races of the Dragon – Dragonborn, Kobolds, variant Kobolds (web enhancement), Dragon Tail
    Savage Species – Symbiotic Creature, Anthropomorphic Huge Viper Snake
    Serpent Kingdoms – Prehensile Tail
    SRD – Huge Viper Snake, Ranger, Combat Reflexes, Endurance, Improved Two-Weapon Fighting, Manyshot, Multiweapon Fighting, Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Rapid Shot, Track, Two-Weapon Fighting, Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus
    Tome of Battle – Crusader, Extra Granted Maneuver, Martial Study, Martial Stance, Shadow Blade, maneuvers

    Spoiler: Longtusk Two-Moos
    Show
    Longtusk Two-MoosLE Krynn Minotaur Spirit Lion Barbarian 1/half-ilithid 5/Psychic Warrior 2



    Spoiler: Stats
    Show



    Point Buy:
    S 18, D 15, C 12, I 8, W 10, C 10
    Racials:
    S 22, D 13, C 12, I 10, W 14, C 12


    1d8+2d8+3+4

    Krynn Minotaur
    :
    +4 STR, -2 DEX/INT/CHA
    Medium, Speed 30, +2 NA
    Gore Attack (Nat) 1d6+STR as secondary, 2d6+1.5xSTR on charge
    +2 Intim/Swim/Use Rope
    Can take Scent as a feat
    Languages: Common, Kothian


    Half-Illithid (Inherited):
    +4 INT/WIS/CHA, Change to Aberration
    NA +1, gain 4 tentacle attacks (1d4)
    Extract (Ex): if you begin a round w/ 4 tentacles attached and win a grapple check, automatically extract the brain and kill creature.

    Improved Grab
    (Ex): hit a small-Large creature with a tentacle attack. Start a grapple as a free action w/o provoking AoO. If successful, establish a hold and attach to opponents head. Can grab Huge or larger provided it can reach the head. If at the start of a round only 1 tentacle attached, can make a single grapple check to attach the others. Opponent can escape w/ grapple check or Escape Artist, but half-I gets +2 bonus for each tentacle attached.


    Mind Blast (Sp): 1/day 40ft cone, Mind Blast. WILL DC 10+half HD+CHA or stunned 1d4 rounds.


    Psionics (Sp): as CL 8th, DC 10+spell level +CHA
    Detect Thoughts (2nd) 3/day
    Suggestion(3rd) 3/day


    Special Qualities:
    Darkvision 60ft, SR 10+RHD (13)


    Barbarian:
    D12, 4+INT, simple/martial weapons. Light/medium armor, shields (no tower). Illiterate, Whirling Frenzy (+4 STR, +2 dodge to AC/REF, make extra attack at -2 BAB, as well as all attacks this round. Lasts for 3+CON rounds)


    Psychic Warrior:
    2+INT, d8, gain heavy armor proficiency. Powers, Bonus feat from Fighter (PHB), or Psionic feats in EPH chapter 3.

    Spoiler: History
    Show

    Longtusk was born a great warrior. Born into a clan of great warriors, but different than the others. Stronger by far. The Shaman often sent him as battle leader on important missions.


    After one such mission, the Shaman rewarded him with a drought from a special jar he held in reserve. After downing the contents, Longtusk immediately felt stronger, more virulent, and immensely more powerful. Awakened within him he felt another consciousness whom he warred with for control. It was glorious.


    As time went by, his heritage began to show itself more and more. Eventually he even transformed himself and became the new War Chief of his clan. All who stood in his way met death.


    The name of Two-Moos conjured visions of doom.

    Spoiler: table
    Show

    Level Class Base Attack Bonus Fort Save Ref Save Will Save Skills Feats Class Features
    6th Half-Illithid Barbarian +1 +2 +0 +0 Climb 4, Intimidate 4, Jump 4, Survival 4 Aberration Blood Whirling Frenzy, Illiteracy, Spirit Lion Totem
    7th Psychic Warrior +1 +4 +0 +0 Climb 5, Jump 5 (B)Improved Unarmed Strike PP, Powers
    8th Psychic Warrior 2 +2 +5 +0 +0 Climb 6, Jump 6 (B)Improved Grapple, Warped Mind -


    FEATS:
    1-Aberation Blood – Flexible Limbs +2 Grapple
    7-Improved Unarmed Strike
    8-Improved Grapple - +4 to Grapple
    8-Warped Mind – + to WILL (+2 total) = half of aberration feats, gain 1 pp per aberrant feat (+4 total)


    Epics Feats:
    1-Deepspawn – Gain 2 tentacles (secondary attacks) from waist. Gain +2 to Grapple
    2-Starspawn – Gain Fly (avg) at half land speed, flight for consecutive rounds of 1+CON, wait 1 round between uses. Gain Cold Resist 5, Immune to altitude sickness/fatigue.
    3-Multiattack – secondary attacks at -2
    4-Illithid Heritage – half of total Illithid feats as bonus to saves vs spells/psionics (+3 total)
    5-Illithid Skin - +1 to NA
    6-Illithid Grapple – Gain a tentacle attack (1d4)
    7- Illithid Grapple - Gain a tentacle attack (1d4)
    8- Illithid Grapple - Gain a tentacle attack (1d4)
    9- Illithid Grapple - Gain a tentacle attack (1d4) and lower half of face transforms
    10-Symbiot Mastery - +4 to ego check, and +2 HP’s


    Powers:
    1-Expansion, 1 PP: Double height, length, width, and weight (x8). Increase size to Large. +2 STR, -2 DEX, -1 to attack/AC. Increase Reach/space to 10ft. Increase damage of natural weapons 1 step. +2 PP spent = duration is 10 mins/level


    1-Grip of Iron, 1 PP: immediate action +4 to Grapple


    7 PP total available

    Spoiler: Tactics
    Show

    Grappelate your foes for great justice! (woe). Use starspawn to fly if needed to get either tactical advantage, or to reach the head of larger foes. Use suggestion if needed to try and get your foe to let you “hug” them for a few minutes. Your grapple doesn’t need to do damage, you just have to hold on for 1-2 rounds. You have 10 tentacles available, only need 4 attached for a full round to extract their brains and kill them for no save. Alternatively you have Mind Blast to stun, and Pounce if you need to charge. With 2 fists, 10 tentacles, and a gore attack, Multiattack is a must especially since only 1 tentacle needs to hit in order to trigger Improved Grab.


    Whirling Frenzy gives you another attack when you really need to make sure one or more of you tentacles hit. Your BAB isn’t great, but the sheer number of attacks available (and a high STR) means you have probability on your side. Otherwise, you can essentially be in a Rage all day long thanks to your symbiot, granting you higher STR/CON for even greater grappelation and some more HP’s to offset only 3HD.


    Aberrant and Illithid feats combine to pump up your crappy saves to decent levels.

    Spoiler: Sources:
    Show

    Complete Champion: Spirit Totem – Lion p46
    Complete Psionic: Illithid things 61-62
    Dragonlance Campaign Setting: Krynn Minotaur p42
    Expanded Psionic’s Handbook: Psychic Warrior p24
    Fiend Folio: Gutworm p220
    Lords of Madness: Aberration Blood p179, Deepspawn p179, Starspawn p181, Warped Mind p182
    Magic of Eberron: Symbiot Mastery p51
    Monster Manual: Multiattack p304
    PHB: Barbarian, Feats
    Underdark: Half-Illithid p89


    http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/cl...reVariants.htm - Whirling Frenzy ACF
    http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/suggestion.htm
    http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/detectThoughts.htm
    http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/gripofIron.htm
    http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/expansion.htm
    http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/aboleth.htm


    Sword and Fist: page 62 has rules for bonuses to grappling from extra limbs. A +4 bonus for each set of limbs beyond the original 2. 4 limbs = +4, 6 limbs = +8, etc. (+20 total)


    Fun Items:
    Glove of Titan’s Grip (MiC): +8 enchancement to Grapples for 7 rounds, 3/day
    Armor Spikes/Razors (PHB/Und): 1d6 pierce/slash and can enchant separately.
    Magical Location: Sunken City of Pazar: 1min/day act as though Powerful Build


    Fun with Grafts:
    Aboleth Tentacle FF208: +4 STR when using, deal 1d6 +STR and force DC 10+half HD+CON FORT save or begin transform as if struck by an aboleth’s tentacle $50k


    Grappling Tentacle FF211: +4 STR when using AND +4 more to Grapple. $20k
    (getting both of these eventually would also net you another +4 to grapple checks for extra limbs, and a further +4 against your opponent attempting escape)


    Symbiot:
    Gutworm FF220: +2 CON, Rage/Will for 4 rounds as Barbarian (+4 STR/CON +2 WILL, -2 AC), no fatigue after, Neutralize poison 1/day
    (( Magic of Eberron lists the “cost” for some symbionts, it’s the only place that does. However you can obtain them through story arcs or as rewards for things as well. By comparison, best guess on cost is 4-8k, standard WBL at 5th is 9K, so you could have this at “creation”))


    Grapple Bonus’s beyond to hit:


    +8 from (Aberrant Blood 2, Deepspawn 2, Imp Grap 4)
    +4 Grip of Iron
    +20 Extra Limbs
    +18 if all 10 tentacles attached
    + expansion for size bonus
    +4 if Grapple Tentacle (Which adds +2 more to tentacles attached bonus)
    ================
    somewhere around 50ish
    +8 to that if Gloves of Titan’s owned
    Grapple check = BAB+STR+Size+misc

    Due to the timing of the vacation I will be taking next week, you have slightly over a week to submit your judgements. I expect them in my inbox by the time I reach my computer Friday May 24, whenever that may be. Best to have them in Thursday night. If you are uncertain at all about the judging process, please review the OP and ask if you have any questions.
    If you need me for anything, or I forgot about something, PM me and I'll see it.
    Undead- er, undying gratitude to linklele for the avatar.
    Quote Originally Posted by frogglesmash View Post
    I guess I'll amend my original statement and instead say that Pathfinder is close enough to 3.5 to spark an argument about how close it actually is.

  30. - Top - End - #30
    Troll in the Playground
     
    WhamBamSam's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Michigan
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Game-Warper's Optimization #5: E8 Madness!

    I toyed around a little with a Synad Ninja 8 with Hidden Talent (Psionic Minor Creation) for poison making, and snagging some number of uses of Alter Self through feats to turn into an Ethereal Filcher and shoot arrows at people from the ethereal, run through walls, and the like, but I didn't really like the Ethereal Filcher's version of Ethereal Jaunt, couldn't quite hit the ML to qualify for Metamorphic Transfer, didn't have anything to actually do with Synad multitask, and just didn't have the time or wherewithal to hammer it out into something that I really liked.

    Iron Chef Medals
    Spoiler
    Show
    Sir Driscoll Conia - Silver - IC L

    Nick Snarespan - Gold - IC LIII

    Lucy "Legs" Silvertail - Bronze - IC LXVIII

    Bolfarg of Knoss - Gold - IC LXXVII

    Ivarr Deathborn - Bronze - IC LXXVII

    Ahmtel - Silver - IC LXXVIII

    Tocke of Nessus - Gold - IC LXXIX

    The Blessed Third - Silver - IC LXXXI

    Galahad Galapagos - Gold - IC LXXXIV

    Sai-don, Knight of the Tide - Bronze - IC LXXXIV

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •