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  1. - Top - End - #271
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    Default Re: The new general "Dominions 5" Thread

    Tell you what, I'll give them the 2 RP cost, but remove the increased costs as well. That way they're at least a budget alternative to a mage.
    Yeah that sounds reasonable.
    Ill give it a try abusing them, to see how it holds up now.

    Still strange. Hydro Pump isn't Aoe and Bubble Beam has #friendlyimmune... Well at least he's not killing himself.
    I can go back to Cerulean and see if i can repeat the bug.

    Oh gods that idea is so awesome that I cannot express myself with simple words, so I've made magnemite riders real.
    (also electric guitar now deals more damage in the first strike a la light lance)
    Yes! thats the kind of stupid crazy awesome stuff the pokemon nations need to set them apart.
    Did also think the electric guitar was to awesome a weapon to not mass produce.

    As you said, just because we can add TMs to everybody doesn't mean we should add TMs to everybody. If Raichus can kick ass on their own, then there's no problem.
    I guess they would rather just put on a hat and become A5.

    Instead im thinking.. magnemite power armor to turn the bard into a heavy thug?
    custom electric guitar that produces a electric shockwave?
    Or one that causes fear?

    edit.
    Another though i forgot.
    I think Gyrados Siege bonus is a touch to high.
    For comparison, a Lastygonian Tyrant has 15, and a con 6 gate cleaver is 50.
    Last edited by lord_khaine; 2019-08-01 at 06:27 AM.
    thnx to Starwoof for the fine avatar

  2. - Top - End - #272
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    Default Re: The new general "Dominions 5" Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by lord_khaine View Post
    Yeah that sounds reasonable.
    Ill give it a try abusing them, to see how it holds up now.



    I can go back to Cerulean and see if i can repeat the bug.
    If you have a bit of extra time, narrowing down the conditions would be nice yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by lord_khaine View Post
    Yes! thats the kind of stupid crazy awesome stuff the pokemon nations need to set them apart.
    Did also think the electric guitar was to awesome a weapon to not mass produce.



    I guess they would rather just put on a hat and become A5.

    Instead im thinking.. magnemite power armor to turn the bard into a heavy thug?
    custom electric guitar that produces a electric shockwave?
    Or one that causes fear?




    At construction 2, 4 and 6 respectively.

    Quote Originally Posted by lord_khaine View Post
    edit.
    Another though i forgot.
    I think Gyrados Siege bonus is a touch to high.
    For comparison, a Lastygonian Tyrant has 15, and a con 6 gate cleaver is 50.
    A master Mason has Siege bonus 30 just being a puny humie.
    But fine, reduced Gyarados siege bonus to 20.

    Pokemon 0.690
    Last edited by deuterio12; 2019-08-02 at 09:10 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Of Mantas View Post
    "You know, Durkon, I built this planet up from nothing. When I started here, all there was was a snarl. All the other gods said we were daft to build a planet over a snarl, but I built it all the same, just to show then. It got eaten by the snarl...

    ...so we built a five millionth, three hundreth, twenty first one. That one burned down, fell over, then got eaten by the snarl, but the five millionth, three hundreth, and twenty second one stayed up! Or at least, it has been until now."

  3. - Top - End - #273
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    Default Re: The new general "Dominions 5" Thread

    If you have a bit of extra time, narrowing down the conditions would be nice yes.
    Doh! nm. I took a close look at that battle. The damage came from a group of slingers i had overlooked.

    At construction 2, 4 and 6 respectively.
    Yes! thats the degree of crazy awesomeness thats fitting for someone who uses rock musicians as commanders or infiltrators..
    Ill start a new game to test out the riders and Pichachu Libre.
    What sort of bless were your initial though for them?
    thnx to Starwoof for the fine avatar

  4. - Top - End - #274
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    Default Re: The new general "Dominions 5" Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by lord_khaine View Post
    Yes! thats the degree of crazy awesomeness thats fitting for someone who uses rock musicians as commanders or infiltrators.
    What else would you use rock musicians for?

    Quote Originally Posted by lord_khaine View Post
    Ill start a new game to test out the riders and Pichachu Libre.
    What sort of bless were your initial though for them?
    Faster movement or extra precision. Airshield may also be interesting in a potential pokémon meta.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Of Mantas View Post
    "You know, Durkon, I built this planet up from nothing. When I started here, all there was was a snarl. All the other gods said we were daft to build a planet over a snarl, but I built it all the same, just to show then. It got eaten by the snarl...

    ...so we built a five millionth, three hundreth, twenty first one. That one burned down, fell over, then got eaten by the snarl, but the five millionth, three hundreth, and twenty second one stayed up! Or at least, it has been until now."

  5. - Top - End - #275
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    Default Re: The new general "Dominions 5" Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by deuterio12 View Post
    Faster movement or extra precision. Airshield may also be interesting in a potential pokémon meta.
    Airshield is an attractive option for pretty much all the Pokenations so far, and would be even more so in pokemon v pokemon where you *know* all of your opponents are going to have tons of ranged attacks. Generically speaking I think you'd be looking at Precision, Farshot, Airshield, toughness blesses (Barkskin/Invuln/Hard Skin/Fortitude/Regen), as at least first-tier pokemon are generally quite fragile. Pika Libre in particular would make really good carriers for a weapon bless. Thunder Weapons obviously would be both thematic and effective, but there's a *lot* of competition for Air bless points pokemon. Generic Rainbow statbless is, well, generic Rainbow statbless.

  6. - Top - End - #276
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    Default Re: The new general "Dominions 5" Thread

    Ahh.. i was actually thinking, that since everything else did lighting damage (your litteraly shooting it out your bum), then your likely more needing something to cover the rest of the cases.
    But perhaps ill just run scales with a minor stat bless.
    Last edited by lord_khaine; 2019-08-01 at 04:22 PM.
    thnx to Starwoof for the fine avatar

  7. - Top - End - #277
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    Default Re: The new general "Dominions 5" Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by lord_khaine View Post
    Ahh.. i was actually thinking, that since everything else did lighting damage (your litteraly shooting it out your bum), then your likely more needing something to cover the rest of the cases.
    But perhaps ill just run scales with a minor stat bless.
    Oh, I was thinking about it in the abstract/mainly sacred army situation. Yeah, if you have enough pikas for backup you can let thundershock spam cover your lightning damage needs, or get some Thunderers in there for heavier artillery support. Swiftness and/or Air Shield would probably be better for specifically wrasslechu in that case, to minimize the amount of time they're going to be exposed to missile fire, combine with Fire/Cold/Poison resistance to cover auras and evocations that might try to abuse their lower HP and Prot. If you want them killier Strength is the best general purpose bonus for that.

    ..you want a bless for Pet Pikachus? Why? Wrestlemouse is where it's at, clearly! ...but if you really have to, Airshield + Strength so they win the archer-off. Also useful for the wrestlers.

  8. - Top - End - #278
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    Default Re: The new general "Dominions 5" Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by tyckspoon View Post
    Oh, I was thinking about it in the abstract/mainly sacred army situation. Yeah, if you have enough pikas for backup you can let thundershock spam cover your lightning damage needs, or get some Thunderers in there for heavier artillery support. Swiftness and/or Air Shield would probably be better for specifically wrasslechu in that case, to minimize the amount of time they're going to be exposed to missile fire, combine with Fire/Cold/Poison resistance to cover auras and evocations that might try to abuse their lower HP and Prot. If you want them killier Strength is the best general purpose bonus for that.

    ..you want a bless for Pet Pikachus? Why? Wrestlemouse is where it's at, clearly! ...but if you really have to, Airshield + Strength so they win the archer-off. Also useful for the wrestlers.
    Pikachu Libres are cap-only and 80 recruitment points each, so Pet Pikachus are a lot more spammable in the long run.

    Also reminder that airshield doesn't protect against Aoe ranged attacks just in case.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Of Mantas View Post
    "You know, Durkon, I built this planet up from nothing. When I started here, all there was was a snarl. All the other gods said we were daft to build a planet over a snarl, but I built it all the same, just to show then. It got eaten by the snarl...

    ...so we built a five millionth, three hundreth, twenty first one. That one burned down, fell over, then got eaten by the snarl, but the five millionth, three hundreth, and twenty second one stayed up! Or at least, it has been until now."

  9. - Top - End - #279
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    Default Re: The new general "Dominions 5" Thread

    Ran the first test game.
    Pikachu Libre is also stupidly nasty when it comes to blending enemy infantry.
    Normal infantry just vaporise on contact with them.

    Im meanwhile not certain if pet Pikachu is worth it.
    But clearly they both benefit from a stat bless.
    thnx to Starwoof for the fine avatar

  10. - Top - End - #280
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    Default Re: The new general "Dominions 5" Thread

    Yeah Pikachu libres pretty good at expanding, but thing is they're pretty glass-cannonish against ranged attacks. And when magic starts coming online they should be pretty easy to counter, not only evocations but stuff like Earth Meld that gets them stuck in place.

    As for pet pikachu, reduce cost to 15 gold/recruitment maybe?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Of Mantas View Post
    "You know, Durkon, I built this planet up from nothing. When I started here, all there was was a snarl. All the other gods said we were daft to build a planet over a snarl, but I built it all the same, just to show then. It got eaten by the snarl...

    ...so we built a five millionth, three hundreth, twenty first one. That one burned down, fell over, then got eaten by the snarl, but the five millionth, three hundreth, and twenty second one stayed up! Or at least, it has been until now."

  11. - Top - End - #281
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    Default Re: The new general "Dominions 5" Thread

    Yeah. Im not entirely certain its worth building a bless specifcally for them.
    And without that they are kinda meh.

    The riders meanwhile are perhaps a touch to awesome for stealthy units.
    And i dont think the guitars need the lance effect.
    In the recent test game they trashed both Ulm and Pangea's units.
    In particular with the aid of their commanders.

    2 commanders with the power armor and a stone bird trashed a 95 unit pangea army (where alright ˝ were maenads).
    I am wondering if perhaps the quickness effect should be moved to a con 4 Magnetron turbo core.

    edit
    Im still a touch concerned about Pikachu Libre.
    If their only real counter is fire evocation then its kinda easy to bless your way around that.
    And i worry the AI cant figure out its them it need to earth meld. Instead of the chaff they are mixed up with.
    But they have 2 special moves. Perhaps set both of them to only be used ˝ the time?
    That would at least slightly reduce their crazy offensive output.
    Last edited by lord_khaine; 2019-08-03 at 11:29 AM.
    thnx to Starwoof for the fine avatar

  12. - Top - End - #282
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    Default Re: The new general "Dominions 5" Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by lord_khaine View Post
    Yeah. Im not entirely certain its worth building a bless specifcally for them.
    And without that they are kinda meh.

    The riders meanwhile are perhaps a touch to awesome for stealthy units.
    And i dont think the guitars need the lance effect.
    In the recent test game they trashed both Ulm and Pangea's units.
    In particular with the aid of their commanders.

    2 commanders with the power armor and a stone bird trashed a 95 unit pangea army (where alright ˝ were maenads).
    I am wondering if perhaps the quickness effect should be moved to a con 4 Magnetron turbo core.
    Ok, removed the lance effect from the guitars, removed the Quickness effect from Magnemite Mail and added a Magneton turbo core for it.

    Plus 15 gold pet pikachus, that puts them in the same price range as Eagle Warriors and Zealots.

    Quote Originally Posted by lord_khaine View Post
    edit
    Im still a touch concerned about Pikachu Libre.
    If their only real counter is fire evocation then its kinda easy to bless your way around that.
    And i worry the AI cant figure out its them it need to earth meld. Instead of the chaff they are mixed up with.
    But they have 2 special moves. Perhaps set both of them to only be used ˝ the time?
    That would at least slightly reduce their crazy offensive output.
    Fire isn't the only evocation in town. Blade Wind, magma spells, poison aoes, cold aoes, shadow blast, leech, stellar cascades are all around too. Heck, even thunder spam may do the trick since Pikachu Libres only have 15 shock resistance. I don't see how you could viably bless to cover all of those.

    And they still have their significant price tag of 80 gold, that's 160 gold per square that gets vaporized.

    Yes you can (and should) add chaff for screening, but then it's a matter of tactics to properly coordinate up your expensive sacred cap-only glass cannons and hope your opponent can't pull counter tactics.

    Nerfing attacks just for pikachu libre isn't an option since I'm sticking with the same pool of moves for every mon. I could remove one of their attacks, probably the Slam, but then that would also imply at least a price cut to around 60 gold/recruitment. Basically make them less glass-cannonish. Actually that sounds like a solid idea, so let's try that.

    Pokémon 0.691
    Last edited by deuterio12; 2019-08-03 at 11:53 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Of Mantas View Post
    "You know, Durkon, I built this planet up from nothing. When I started here, all there was was a snarl. All the other gods said we were daft to build a planet over a snarl, but I built it all the same, just to show then. It got eaten by the snarl...

    ...so we built a five millionth, three hundreth, twenty first one. That one burned down, fell over, then got eaten by the snarl, but the five millionth, three hundreth, and twenty second one stayed up! Or at least, it has been until now."

  13. - Top - End - #283
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    Default Re: The new general "Dominions 5" Thread

    Nerfing attacks just for pikachu libre isn't an option since I'm sticking with the same pool of moves for every mon. I could remove one of their attacks, probably the Slam, but then that would also imply at least a price cut to around 60 gold/recruitment. Basically make them less glass-cannonish. Actually that sounds like a solid idea, so let's try that.
    I am still worried they will be a bit difficult to deal with even without the slam.
    It does not do to much compared to the rest. But alright i will try and test them with a bless.

    Ok, removed the lance effect from the guitars, removed the Quickness effect from Magnemite Mail and added a Magneton turbo core for it.

    Plus 15 gold pet pikachus, that puts them in the same price range as Eagle Warriors and Zealots.
    Im not entirely certain its enough to pull the riders back in line.
    But i will give it a try as well when i get the time.
    thnx to Starwoof for the fine avatar

  14. - Top - End - #284
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    Default Re: The new general "Dominions 5" Thread

    Something I forgot to mention, also removed the stealth from the magnemite riders.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Of Mantas View Post
    "You know, Durkon, I built this planet up from nothing. When I started here, all there was was a snarl. All the other gods said we were daft to build a planet over a snarl, but I built it all the same, just to show then. It got eaten by the snarl...

    ...so we built a five millionth, three hundreth, twenty first one. That one burned down, fell over, then got eaten by the snarl, but the five millionth, three hundreth, and twenty second one stayed up! Or at least, it has been until now."

  15. - Top - End - #285
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    Default Re: The new general "Dominions 5" Thread

    Ah yes alright.
    I forgot to ask, whats the set standard for cavalry in the EA.
    What unit is the Rider meant to be compared with in effectiveness?
    thnx to Starwoof for the fine avatar

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    Default Re: The new general "Dominions 5" Thread

    That's kinda of a trick question since most of the EA nations have no cavalry at all and several of those who do only have sacred riders (cough Hellheim and Vanheim cough).

    The best standard in those conditions would probably be the non-sacred Sauromatia cavalry. Solid stats, not too expensive, both light spears and ranged attacks, special tattoos, effective enough to both expand and be part of one's core armies as the game progresses.

    EDIT: Aeson rightfully pointed out the mounted hirdmen from Vanheim that are pretty elitish at 50 gold with superior stats all around, that may be a better standard.
    Last edited by deuterio12; 2019-08-06 at 08:14 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Of Mantas View Post
    "You know, Durkon, I built this planet up from nothing. When I started here, all there was was a snarl. All the other gods said we were daft to build a planet over a snarl, but I built it all the same, just to show then. It got eaten by the snarl...

    ...so we built a five millionth, three hundreth, twenty first one. That one burned down, fell over, then got eaten by the snarl, but the five millionth, three hundreth, and twenty second one stayed up! Or at least, it has been until now."

  17. - Top - End - #287
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    Default Re: The new general "Dominions 5" Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by deuterio12 View Post
    That's kinda of a trick question since most of the EA nations have no cavalry at all and several of those who do only have sacred riders (cough Hellheim and Vanheim cough).
    EA Helheim and EA Vanheim both have nonsacred cavalry (Mounted Hirdmen), and EA Vanheim additionally lacks sacred cavalry other than commanders - they get Vanheres (sacred berserker infantry) instead of MA Vanheim's Vans.

    Depending on what you count as "cavalry," Arcoscephale (Wind Rider), Mictlan (Eagle Warrior), and Ur (Mushussu) might count as nations with only sacred cavalry, but I don't think any other EA nations qualify unless you count commanders.
    Last edited by Aeson; 2019-08-06 at 07:50 AM.

  18. - Top - End - #288
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    Default Re: The new general "Dominions 5" Thread

    Ah yes, mounted hirdmen are probably the best example for vanilla EA non-sacred elite cavalry, thanks for the reminder!
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Of Mantas View Post
    "You know, Durkon, I built this planet up from nothing. When I started here, all there was was a snarl. All the other gods said we were daft to build a planet over a snarl, but I built it all the same, just to show then. It got eaten by the snarl...

    ...so we built a five millionth, three hundreth, twenty first one. That one burned down, fell over, then got eaten by the snarl, but the five millionth, three hundreth, and twenty second one stayed up! Or at least, it has been until now."

  19. - Top - End - #289
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    Default Re: The new general "Dominions 5" Thread

    Ill try and run a test game with EA Vanheim to see how well mounted hirdmen crushed independents.
    The riders should preferebly not to to much better, since Vermillion also has a ton of other stuff.
    But at the last test you could run them as mainly a rider nation.
    thnx to Starwoof for the fine avatar

  20. - Top - End - #290
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    Default Re: The new general "Dominions 5" Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by lord_khaine View Post
    Ill try and run a test game with EA Vanheim to see how well mounted hirdmen crushed independents.
    The riders should preferebly not to to much better, since Vermillion also has a ton of other stuff.
    But at the last test you could run them as mainly a rider nation.
    Maybe you can rely only on them during early game, but I don't see how it's sustainable to rely only in 11ish HP units at 100+ gold each once other people start researching offensive magic. It's the big problem with cavalry in dominions, they're pretty good at "mundane" combat, but once lighting bolts and death blasts and meteors start raining accross the sky, all that fancy defense skill and armor won't do them much good.

    Also it's good if a nation has different ways to play it, like Pangaea which can rely in either their great infantry or big blocks of centaurs (which are basically cavalry with high HP) or mix it.
    Last edited by deuterio12; 2019-08-06 at 08:51 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Of Mantas View Post
    "You know, Durkon, I built this planet up from nothing. When I started here, all there was was a snarl. All the other gods said we were daft to build a planet over a snarl, but I built it all the same, just to show then. It got eaten by the snarl...

    ...so we built a five millionth, three hundreth, twenty first one. That one burned down, fell over, then got eaten by the snarl, but the five millionth, three hundreth, and twenty second one stayed up! Or at least, it has been until now."

  21. - Top - End - #291
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    Default Re: The new general "Dominions 5" Thread

    Well ran a bunch of tests in my side comparing with the mounted hirdmen and thought that the best way to nerf the problematic pokémon cavalry would be to cut down their defense skill and morale. Also dropped most of the "mount keeps fighting after rider dies".

    So to summarize the exact changes:
    -Rhyhorn Rider's Defense dropped by 2 as well as for the commander version.
    -Starmie Rider's Defense dropped by 3, no longer spawns a starmie upon death, morale dropped by 3.
    -All magnemite rider's defense dropped by 2, no longer spawns magneton upon death.
    -Rapidash rider defense dropped by 6, morale dropped by 3, no longer spawns rapidash upon death.

    May be a bit in the weaker side, they now suffer significantly more attrition

    Oh, and bit by bit did Saffron City.
    Spoiler
    Show





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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Of Mantas View Post
    "You know, Durkon, I built this planet up from nothing. When I started here, all there was was a snarl. All the other gods said we were daft to build a planet over a snarl, but I built it all the same, just to show then. It got eaten by the snarl...

    ...so we built a five millionth, three hundreth, twenty first one. That one burned down, fell over, then got eaten by the snarl, but the five millionth, three hundreth, and twenty second one stayed up! Or at least, it has been until now."

  22. - Top - End - #292
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    Default Re: The new general "Dominions 5" Thread

    Well ran a bunch of tests in my side comparing with the mounted hirdmen and thought that the best way to nerf the problematic pokémon cavalry would be to cut down their defense skill and morale. Also dropped most of the "mount keeps fighting after rider dies".

    So to summarize the exact changes:
    -Rhyhorn Rider's Defense dropped by 2 as well as for the commander version.
    -Starmie Rider's Defense dropped by 3, no longer spawns a starmie upon death, morale dropped by 3.
    -All magnemite rider's defense dropped by 2, no longer spawns magneton upon death.
    -Rapidash rider defense dropped by 6, morale dropped by 3, no longer spawns rapidash upon death.

    May be a bit in the weaker side, they now suffer significantly more attrition
    Wow.. thats a -massive- line of nerfs.
    Was it really nececary to go that far to bring those pokemon cavalry units into line with existing EA cavalry?
    I mean, i guess i noticed that all the cavalry units were kinda on the strong side.
    Had just no idea it was that bad.

    Else, i see a new town?
    I were planning to move though the list systematically. And get back to Celador next.
    But i can bumb Saffron up.
    thnx to Starwoof for the fine avatar

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    Default Re: The new general "Dominions 5" Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by lord_khaine View Post
    Wow.. thats a -massive- line of nerfs.
    Was it really nececary to go that far to bring those pokemon cavalry units into line with existing EA cavalry?
    I mean, i guess i noticed that all the cavalry units were kinda on the strong side.
    Had just no idea it was that bad.
    It's hard to properly gauge what is the "line" in dominions, in particular with the variety of units and whatnot, but decided to err more in the weaker side this time. Besides testing on expanding also pitted groups of Mounted Hirdmen against groups of each poke cavalry with the same cost until the mounted hirdmen had a reasonable chance to come out on top.

    General observations:
    -The first big problem was that the mounted hirdmen most of the time had to weather 1-2 volleys of powerful ranged attacks then even when they closed in they struggled to properly hit defense 17ish opponents.
    -But then I noted that "human" cavalry usually has a only about 15ish defense. Just elf cavalry gets higher base defense mostly.
    -After nerfing the defense skill of the poke knights, the Mounted Hirdmen managed to land a decent number of skills, but then the problem was that fresh pokemon spawned to close the holes and win the grinding match. Not a problem for for the rhyhorn riders since those lack ranged attacks and so the Mounted Hirdmen managed to engage them at full health instead of already being softened up. The rhyhorn rider's trample is also useless since they're both the same size and the mounted hirdmen have an advantage all around in melee but the rhyhorn riders go berserk and spawn berserk rhyhorns upon death so they may win an attrition battle.
    -Magnemite Riders now could be beaten by the mounted hirdmen, but starmie riders high-acuraccy volleys still gave them an huge advantage. Nerfing their morale meant the mounted hirdmen could luck out a win by inflicting just a few casualities.
    -Rapidash Riders proved the most problematic at the end. Probably because of the fire shield and heat aura making the Mounted Hirdmen burn themselves pretty fast if they can't win quickly. With a further nerfed defense skill the Mounted Hirdman can get a victory with a bit of luck in their side.

    Mind you that's all for early game. I'll repeat that cavalry in dominions plain struggles once proper magic starts entering the battlefield. Most nations just spams infantry most of the time for a reason. Stuff like defence skill is great in normal melee, mostly useless when the nukes start flying. Not to mention the bit where less bodies means a harder time defending/sieging castles. That's why the nerfs are mostly focused in lowering the most useless defensive stat against magic, but still a proper MP game is needed to check how they hold up all game long.

    Quote Originally Posted by lord_khaine View Post
    Else, i see a new town?
    I were planning to move though the list systematically. And get back to Celador next.
    But i can bumb Saffron up.
    Nice to hear you still have plans for this. An initial overview of Saffron city would be nice since it's fresh out of the oven.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Of Mantas View Post
    "You know, Durkon, I built this planet up from nothing. When I started here, all there was was a snarl. All the other gods said we were daft to build a planet over a snarl, but I built it all the same, just to show then. It got eaten by the snarl...

    ...so we built a five millionth, three hundreth, twenty first one. That one burned down, fell over, then got eaten by the snarl, but the five millionth, three hundreth, and twenty second one stayed up! Or at least, it has been until now."

  24. - Top - End - #294
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    Default Re: The new general "Dominions 5" Thread

    Is 'pranktator' instead of 'pantokrator' in the pretender descriptions intentional?
    Last edited by Aeson; 2019-08-13 at 05:39 AM.

  25. - Top - End - #295
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    Default Re: The new general "Dominions 5" Thread

    On a related note, I have the first full version of EA Johto ready. It's here. Intent is to have all the pokemon in one nation, roughly balanced with vanilla. I'm not sure I have hit that mark, first evolution pokemon are kind of squishy and expensive and by third stage they get kind of murderous.

    My favorite part is Gary Oak. I'm not sure he is well balanced, I wanted him able to expand with a retinue but that's tricky even when you make some of the spawns a fixed number. But I enjoyed writing his flavor text.

    I'm looking for input, so PEACH?

  26. - Top - End - #296
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    Default Re: The new general "Dominions 5" Thread

    t's hard to properly gauge what is the "line" in dominions, in particular with the variety of units and whatnot, but decided to err more in the weaker side this time. Besides testing on expanding also pitted groups of Mounted Hirdmen against groups of each poke cavalry with the same cost until the mounted hirdmen had a reasonable chance to come out on top.
    That does sound like a very scientific basis for comparison though.
    If they still has a chance to defeat the Hirdmen in honorable combat.
    Then i doubt they have grown to weak though.

    Mind you that's all for early game. I'll repeat that cavalry in dominions plain struggles once proper magic starts entering the battlefield. Most nations just spams infantry most of the time for a reason. Stuff like defence skill is great in normal melee, mostly useless when the nukes start flying. Not to mention the bit where less bodies means a harder time defending/sieging castles. That's why the nerfs are mostly focused in lowering the most useless defensive stat against magic, but still a proper MP game is needed to check how they hold up all game long.
    Well.. at the same time, its quite possible to win the early game so hard, that there isnt any mid/late game.
    The last game i was in were over before turn 24.
    And its not all nations who have good or early evocation access.

    Nice to hear you still have plans for this. An initial overview of Saffron city would be nice since it's fresh out of the oven.
    Ill give it a more in depth review when i have had more time to look at it.
    But it does already look like a nation thats a little extreme.
    So will likely take some time to evaluate.

    On a related note, I have the first full version of EA Johto ready. It's here. Intent is to have all the pokemon in one nation, roughly balanced with vanilla. I'm not sure I have hit that mark, first evolution pokemon are kind of squishy and expensive and by third stage they get kind of murderous.
    Ill try and put it into the que after Saffron.

    Alright. Brief initial assesment of Saffron says it have quite a few units that are OP.
    Last edited by lord_khaine; 2019-08-13 at 12:59 PM.
    thnx to Starwoof for the fine avatar

  27. - Top - End - #297
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    Default Re: The new general "Dominions 5" Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by lord_khaine View Post
    That does sound like a very scientific basis for comparison though.
    If they still has a chance to defeat the Hirdmen in honorable combat.
    Then i doubt they have grown to weak though.
    Well I hope so and that I didn't run into a series of statistical flukes.

    Quote Originally Posted by lord_khaine View Post
    Well.. at the same time, its quite possible to win the early game so hard, that there isnt any mid/late game.
    The last game i was in were over before turn 24.
    Possible, although I would bet that last game of yours was in the smaller number of players. The more there are, the higher the chances you run into somebody with strong research. Overall I've seen more games where somebody pulls a nice rush and swiftly takes out 2-3 nations and they still end up losing than the rusher managing to keep their inertia. Case in point Hellheim is considered one of the top rush nations, if they come at you in the first year things will be pretty ugly, but Hellheim still isn't considered one of the top nations overall because even if they manage to take out several neighbours, their research still sucks and they often end up running in a player who hard counters them with magic.

    Quote Originally Posted by lord_khaine View Post
    And its not all nations who have good or early evocation access.
    Those are usually the rush ones like Hellheim that are probably packing heavily blessed super sacreds.

    And evocation isn't the only magic counter, there's also cheap stuff like Earth Meld and Paralyze and Swarm that can be researched relatively fast and will shut down small numbers of elite units pretty fast.


    Quote Originally Posted by lord_khaine View Post
    Ill give it a more in depth review when i have had more time to look at it.
    But it does already look like a nation thats a little extreme.
    So will likely take some time to evaluate.
    Really appreciate it. It's hard to properly evaluate one's own stuff since the creator will always have some bias.


    Quote Originally Posted by lord_khaine View Post
    Alright. Brief initial assesment of Saffron says it have quite a few units that are OP.
    Could you name which ones exactly and what specific aspects you see as more problematic?

    Spoiler: Also some brainstorming for Viridian City already
    Show

    -Basically have it be a dual nation between "Ground Town" and "Team Rocket blasts off at the speed of light!"
    -Get Ground pokemon and regular trainers.
    -Then get a bunch of Rocket Pokemon (rattata, meowth, zubat, nidoran line, etc) that get slightly higher base cost in return for chaos power and chaos recruitment. Those need a special site that can be made with a national ritual, capital starts with one.
    -Stealthy Rocket grunts that spread chaos and unrest.
    -Rocket elite seducers to represent rocket "recruitment"/stealing, one for each gender.
    -Weaker magic but more variety, basically everything except blood but capping at 3 in any path and that's for cap mages, outside mages weaker.
    -Gets access to one of the special site rituals from each other nation representing rocket expanding their operations, but you'll need to plan ahead to cast them
    Last edited by deuterio12; 2019-08-13 at 10:43 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Of Mantas View Post
    "You know, Durkon, I built this planet up from nothing. When I started here, all there was was a snarl. All the other gods said we were daft to build a planet over a snarl, but I built it all the same, just to show then. It got eaten by the snarl...

    ...so we built a five millionth, three hundreth, twenty first one. That one burned down, fell over, then got eaten by the snarl, but the five millionth, three hundreth, and twenty second one stayed up! Or at least, it has been until now."

  28. - Top - End - #298
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    Default Re: The new general "Dominions 5" Thread

    Possible, although I would bet that last game of yours was in the smaller number of players. The more there are, the higher the chances you run into somebody with strong research. Overall I've seen more games where somebody pulls a nice rush and swiftly takes out 2-3 nations and they still end up losing than the rusher managing to keep their inertia. Case in point Hellheim is considered one of the top rush nations, if they come at you in the first year things will be pretty ugly, but Hellheim still isn't considered one of the top nations overall because even if they manage to take out several neighbours, their research still sucks and they often end up running in a player who hard counters them with magic.
    Actually we had 10 players, so i dont think it was that small a game.
    Victory demanded 7 out of 12 thrones.

    Could you name which ones exactly and what specific aspects you see as more problematic?
    Yes.. on to merciless feedback!

    Spoiler: Saffron
    Show

    *
    Im having trouble deciding if Sabrina's Ego is overpriced or not.
    She seems priced according to a Titan, but they in turn are a little overpriced themselves most of the time.
    I can see you can turn her into a massive SC. But it would still be one limited by dominion.
    *
    Mewtwo Can indeed expand without a bless. Even without a meaningful degree of magic. Though it is extremely vulnerable to magic weapons itself.
    *
    Drowsee Is likely to good. Compared to for example a Great Olm it costs 40% less, while having 2 shots that either kill people or disrupts formations.
    *
    Machop Is likely a little to good. Attack density means it chew though unarmed stuff like it wasnt there. 30 machop with 6 Drowsee for support killed 45 Itchieds. Losing just 3 guys in the process.
    *
    Heavy Machop is kinda OP. They more or less shred though anything EA they encounter due to brutal density of high attack str 18 hits.
    *
    Jynx Are OP as well. 20 Jynx cut though 8 provinces, losing just ˝ their numbers on the way. The last fight they won was in Heat 2.
    Then imagine fighting them in Cold 3, Magic 3 that was the scales i picked for them..
    *
    Shield Abra seems strong for its price. Its more or less made for screwing with the enemy rear line.
    And it turns into..
    *
    Shield Kadabra
    Who shreds stuff before it can even reach it.
    *
    Mr.Mime Is close in effect to 3 Mind Blasters, and sacred for tasty blesses like increased range or cold weapons.
    *
    HitmonChan&Hitmonle Are kinda OP. Disintegrate squares they get into contact with. And thats even before i bother looking at the available options for, for example, casting Luck or Body Etheral on them.
    *
    Platinium Psychic Are underpriced for the amount of research it gives. Closest comparison point is Yogi, who gives just 7 research point compared to 11 here.
    *
    medium Is it intentional this crazy old lady has around 35% chance of not doing as you wish?

    thnx to Starwoof for the fine avatar

  29. - Top - End - #299
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    Default Re: The new general "Dominions 5" Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by lord_khaine View Post
    Actually we had 10 players, so i dont think it was that small a game.
    Victory demanded 7 out of 12 thrones.
    Hmmm, if they lucked out in the throne spread out, that's perfectly possible. Were the thrones all lv 1 by chance?

    Quote Originally Posted by lord_khaine View Post
    Yes.. on to merciless feedback!

    Spoiler: Saffron
    Show

    *
    Im having trouble deciding if Sabrina's Ego is overpriced or not.
    She seems priced according to a Titan, but they in turn are a little overpriced themselves most of the time.
    I can see you can turn her into a massive SC. But it would still be one limited by dominion.
    *
    Mewtwo Can indeed expand without a bless. Even without a meaningful degree of magic. Though it is extremely vulnerable to magic weapons itself.
    *
    Drowsee Is likely to good. Compared to for example a Great Olm it costs 40% less, while having 2 shots that either kill people or disrupts formations.
    *
    Machop Is likely a little to good. Attack density means it chew though unarmed stuff like it wasnt there. 30 machop with 6 Drowsee for support killed 45 Itchieds. Losing just 3 guys in the process.
    *
    Heavy Machop is kinda OP. They more or less shred though anything EA they encounter due to brutal density of high attack str 18 hits.
    *
    Jynx Are OP as well. 20 Jynx cut though 8 provinces, losing just ˝ their numbers on the way. The last fight they won was in Heat 2.
    Then imagine fighting them in Cold 3, Magic 3 that was the scales i picked for them..
    *
    Shield Abra seems strong for its price. Its more or less made for screwing with the enemy rear line.
    And it turns into..
    *
    Shield Kadabra
    Who shreds stuff before it can even reach it.
    *
    Mr.Mime Is close in effect to 3 Mind Blasters, and sacred for tasty blesses like increased range or cold weapons.
    *
    HitmonChan&Hitmonle Are kinda OP. Disintegrate squares they get into contact with. And thats even before i bother looking at the available options for, for example, casting Luck or Body Etheral on them.
    *
    Platinium Psychic Are underpriced for the amount of research it gives. Closest comparison point is Yogi, who gives just 7 research point compared to 11 here.
    *
    medium Is it intentional this crazy old lady has around 35% chance of not doing as you wish?

    -Reduced Sabrina's Ego price to 280.
    -So with you pondering if Sabrina's Ego is overpriced or not, can I assume you're just stating that Mewtwo works as an awake expander but isn't particularly OP either? In particular at 230 points it's not exactly a budget option and leaving astral low is an extremely risky option since it means leaving one vulnerable to astral duel.
    -Increased drowzee cost to 45 gold/recruitment.
    -Eeerr, 30 machops and 6 drowzees amounted to 330+180=510 gold against 450 gold worth of indies, the national troops better come ahead. And icthyids in particular have just 8 mr, the drowzees would have a field day, while the icthyd's higher than average Str is useless against 7 HP machops, that was a pretty lopsided match all in all. In my tests indies with javelins/slings/bows will mess up the basic machops pretty badly before they can close in melee and just in case tested against steel maidens of simillar gold cost and the machops lose most of the time (although they do put up a fight).
    -Now the heavy machops were indeed pulling above their weight. Gave them a custom "simple sword" with inferior stats and now they should be more in line.
    -Increased Jynx cost to 30 gold/recruitment.
    -Increased shield abra cost to 10/7 gold/recruitment.
    -Shield kadabra now only has confusion for ranged attack.
    -Mr.Mime now only has confusion for ranged attack as well since they're meant to be a more defensive unit.
    -To be fair Hitmonleee and Hitmonchan are cap only and capped at 1/month, but ok gave them both a price increase to 90 gold/recruitment.
    -Sequani Stargazers from Maverni are 45 gold 1S plus 5% fortune tellers. So that's about a 20%-25% extra cost and no fortune teller for about +50% research which may seem a better deal, but thing research bonus is only good while, well, researching, while Sequani Stargazers are making full use of their abilities all the time for cheaper.
    -Ups, that's twice as crazy as she's meant to be, removed the shattered soul.

    Pokemon 0.701

    Thanks for the detailed overview!
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Of Mantas View Post
    "You know, Durkon, I built this planet up from nothing. When I started here, all there was was a snarl. All the other gods said we were daft to build a planet over a snarl, but I built it all the same, just to show then. It got eaten by the snarl...

    ...so we built a five millionth, three hundreth, twenty first one. That one burned down, fell over, then got eaten by the snarl, but the five millionth, three hundreth, and twenty second one stayed up! Or at least, it has been until now."

  30. - Top - End - #300
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    Default Re: The new general "Dominions 5" Thread

    Thanks for the detailed overview!
    Your very welcome.

    -So with you pondering if Sabrina's Ego is overpriced or not, can I assume you're just stating that Mewtwo works as an awake expander but isn't particularly OP either? In particular at 230 points it's not exactly a budget option and leaving astral low is an extremely risky option since it means leaving one vulnerable to astral duel.
    Yeah, that was just a statement that Mewtwo works as its suposed to.
    I do have a worry about a teleporting expander like this though. That being its likely possible to pull the old UtterVast trick with it.
    And block someones cap turn 1 if there are fixed starting spots.

    -Eeerr, 30 machops and 6 drowzees amounted to 330+180=510 gold against 450 gold worth of indies, the national troops better come ahead. And icthyids in particular have just 8 mr, the drowzees would have a field day, while the icthyd's higher than average Str is useless against 7 HP machops, that was a pretty lopsided match all in all. In my tests indies with javelins/slings/bows will mess up the basic machops pretty badly before they can close in melee and just in case tested against steel maidens of simillar gold cost and the machops lose most of the time (although they do put up a fight).
    Isnt that cause for concern? In part since Steel Maidens are suposedly some of the best infantry in the EA.
    While Machops meanwhile both work on their own, and turn into heavy infantry that i suspect can blend Steel Maidens.

    -Increased Jynx cost to 30 gold/recruitment
    It likely need at a bit of a recruitment increase as well.
    I honestly think it would have been better to also nerf its attack density slightly.

    -To be fair Hitmonleee and Hitmonchan are cap only and capped at 1/month, but ok gave them both a price increase to 90 gold/recruitment.
    Still worried about how they perform under astral Buffs. But i will try and test that first in a bigger game.

    -Sequani Stargazers from Maverni are 45 gold 1S plus 5% fortune tellers. So that's about a 20%-25% extra cost and no fortune teller for about +50% research which may seem a better deal, but thing research bonus is only good while, well, researching, while Sequani Stargazers are making full use of their abilities all the time for cheaper.
    I think the deal is extremely loopsided in the Platinium Psychics favor.
    A lab monkey/communion slave does research most of her time. Especially in the early game.
    The Fortune teller meanwhile, only get a chance to use its ability when the province its in gets hit by a bad event. So as such the Stargazer likely gets less of a chance to use its ability than the psychic. And 95% of those times, the Stargazer fails at actually accomplishing anything.

    Added to that, the psychic also brings much more research/fort turn.
    thnx to Starwoof for the fine avatar

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