Greenhilt afterlife conundrum.

[martianmister]

I miss the days when people used to say let's agree to disagree, or just not post at all, when they don't want to continue a discussion, instead of demanding the other side to quit. Truly, those were the days, my friends.

[Wizard_Lizard]

I miss the days when people used to say let's agree to disagree, or just not post at all, when they don't want to continue a discussion, instead of demanding the other side to quit. Those were the days.

I appear to have missed those days...

[martianmister]

I appear to have missed those days...

Not old enough, I presume?

[Wizard_Lizard]

[QUOTE=martianmister;23979386]Not old enough, I presume [\QUOTE]
yes, sadly.

[woweedd]

I miss the days when people used to say let's agree to disagree, or just not post at all, when they don't want to continue a discussion, instead of demanding the other side to quit. Truly, those were the days, my friends.

Saying "let's agree to disagree" is asking that your opponent quit the debate, just in a more polite way.

[Wizard_Lizard]

Saying "let's agree to disagree" is asking that your opponent quit the debate, just in a more polite way.

It stops the argument though.

[hroþila]

Saying "let's agree to disagree" is asking that your opponent quit the debate, just in a more polite way.

Surely it's the polite way to say "I don't feel like debating this anymore and I'm telling you so that you aren't left hanging"?

[woweedd]

Surely it's the polite way to say "I don't feel like debating this anymore and I'm telling you so that you aren't left hanging"?

True enough. So, it's the polite way of YOU quitting.

[Worldsong]

More popular nowadays is the declaration "We can agree to disagree, but I'm correct and I'm just allowing you to gracefully retain your pride despite being wrong."

[Lacuna Caster]

I'm just wondering: If you aren't enjoying this, and it doesn't sound like you are...Why not quit?

I don't know, woweedd. Do you enjoy arguing with me?

Rather than address this point by point and start another go-round, I will simply reiterate: The OotS are the main heroes of the story. Anything that moves them off center stage and makes a different group into the prime movers of the story, is not something the author is going to do...

I was explicitly talking about ways that the OOTS could be preserved as the prime movers of the story, I'm just pointing out that in order to do this AND not have ostensibly upstanding and rational supporting cast-members end up looking like obstructive petty morons, you need to take certain toys and goodies away from the Sapphire Guard. The fact that those toys and goodies are later depended upon in order for the OOTS-centric plot to function is not my problem.

[Kelenius]

I was explicitly talking about ways that the OOTS could be preserved as the prime movers of the story, I'm just pointing out that in order to do this AND not have ostensibly upstanding and rational supporting cast-members end up looking like obstructive petty morons, you need to take certain toys and goodies away from the Sapphire Guard. The fact that those toys and goodies are later depended upon in order for the OOTS-centric plot to function is not my problem.

Your solutions would create more problems than they would solve.

[Darth Paul]

*snip*

Obviously, I disagree... but I feel we've been over this ground enough in this thread. I won't belabor the point further.

[Ruck]

First of all, let me be clear: I could hate every fibre and particle of The Order of the Stick and insist #MikoDidNothingWrong with searing intensity, and it would not make any or all of my specific criticisms ill-founded or invalid.

Your criticisms are invalid because you repeatedly and deliberately misrepresent what other people say and even the text of the comic to try to "win" arguments.

And then you're rude and condescending to people who call you out for doing so.

Why it is so important to you to convince people they're wrong to like this comic that you are willing to stoop so low over and over again is a question best answered by someone with more professional training than I have.

[Worldsong]

I'd point out that someone with a negative view of the subject at hand is more likely to accept a narrative which puts down the subject as being inherently wrong so their opinion is justified.

That doesn't mean that all criticism is invalid but it does mean that when there's a piece of critique and there's a positive and a negative explanation someone with a negative opinion might be a bit too quickly inclined to take the negative explanation because it aligns with what they believe and want to be true.

People often say that they don't want the things they dislike to be bad, but once someone's formed an opinion the desire to validate that opinion is quite strong, whether that opinion is positive or negative.

[CriticalFailure]

I feel like the bonus Miko strips go a long way in making her special one complex and the conclusions she draws based on that not seem out of left field. Though I never got why she seems to have been so hated before killing Shojo; until things started to unravel she just seemed like a humorous take on uptight lawful characters and one that fell into the "good is not nice" category. I think it's because people tend to see her specifically as A B*tch. Whereas other characters that are good but gruff/unpleasant/sullen/a smartas*/etc are not seen as "b*tchy."

[Rogar Demonblud]

I think it had more to do with the fact that many of us have...experiences with Miko-type paladins. Really bad ones. So she was slamming a berserk button something fierce for us.

[Darth Paul]

I feel like the bonus Miko strips go a long way in making her special one complex and the conclusions she draws based on that not seem out of left field. Though I never got why she seems to have been so hated before killing Shojo; until things started to unravel she just seemed like a humorous take on uptight lawful characters and one that fell into the "good is not nice" category.

The bonus strips make it very clear (along with the inn sequence) that she's very much a moralizing stick-in-the-mud; and what's more, she's this way to her own team, not just to prisoners she's escorting/ people she just met. It's driven home how isolated she is from anyone who might provide some other point of view, some reality check on the notion that she's the chosen of the gods. And the more isolated she is, the more she thinks it's due to her special qualities. It's a vicious cycle and she is stuck in it. I can see why even other paladins hate her company.

[Wizard_Lizard]

True enough. So, it's the polite way of YOU quitting.

See, that's the problem!, you can't stop arguing without losing the argument!!!

[Lacuna Caster]

I think it had more to do with the fact that many of us have...experiences with Miko-type paladins. Really bad ones. So she was slamming a berserk button something fierce for us.

There are some salient counters to this in other discussions-

Don't get me wrong, Miko is a horrible way to PLAY a paladin at the table. This is because, in that case, Belkar is just a friend trying to unwind from his stressful job/courses/relationships with an Evil persona and it's not a big deal, because both the PCs and NPCs are entirely fictitious. More than one gaming session has been ruined by Miko-type paladins.

However, in the context of a world where NPCs ARE flesh and blood characters, where letting an evildoer slip through your fingers could very likely put others at risk of death and suffering, where Belkar IS just a malicious little psychopath and Miko isn't just a character controlled by someone who has a rewarding Systems Analyst job to go to once this gaming session is offer, Miko was a defensible way to actually BE a paladin. Not the only way, or the best way, but not an antithesis to all that is truly Good or someone who deserves to be assaulted/killed/damned-to-the-pits-of-hell.

Paladins policing the rest of the party (because if they don't they'll lose their powers) is one of the things that tends to break up gaming groups.

This makes no sense at all in the context of the wider story, where the Order isn't actually a bunch of PCs being played by a group trying to have a good time. It would have been okay in a purely gag-a-day strip (if all the misogyny was taken out, which... would leave it unrecognizable anyway), but is incoherent in the context of a more serious story, and that angle should have been dropped if the story was going to become that.

[Squire Doodad]

See, that's the problem!, you can't stop arguing without losing the argument!!!

There's another way too.

It involves using a simple vehicle to cross a moderate quantity of fluid.

[Darth Paul]

See, that's the problem!, you can't stop arguing without losing the argument!!!

Define "winning the argument".

If you mean "the other person involved admits your superior logic and powers of rhetoric and tells you you were right all along", most arguments (on the internet or in person) that go on long enough to invoke "just walk away" have also had both sides become so entrenched that realistically, that's not a possibility anyway.

If "winning" means you have made the same points clearly enough that you're sure a neutral observer can understand what you're saying, and said observer would judge between the two sides and draw their own conclusions- well, if you can call it a win in your own mind, then continuing the argument is just a waste of energy you could be spending doing other things, IMO.

TL:DR- sometimes you just have to declare victory, because your opponent will never admit defeat.

[Peelee]

Define "winning the argument".

Agreeing with me.

[Wizard_Lizard]

Agreeing with me.

and/or me.

[The Pilgrim]

Define "winning the argument".

The only real way to win an argument in the Internet, is to avoid getting into one.

[hamishspence]

Or, as Joshua puts it in WarGames:

"A STRANGE GAME. THE ONLY WINNING MOVE IS NOT TO PLAY."

[Peelee]

Or, as Joshua puts it in WarGames:

"A STRANGE GAME. THE ONLY WINNING MOVE IS NOT TO PLAY."

Care for a nice game of chess?

[woweedd]

care for a nice game of chess?

global thermonuclear war.

[Peelee]

global thermonuclear war.

Let's conpromise with tic tac toe.

[Caerulea]

Let's conpromise with tic tac toe.

Draw. Also, upper left.

[woweedd]

let's conpromise with tic tac toe.

10: Print “all work and no play makes jack a dull boy”.
20: Go to 10.