OOTS #1162 - The Discussion Thread

[Fish]

Why didn’t Sigdi get her arm restored?

Because that’s the point of the strip.

Sigdi could have done the immediate and selfish thing and spent the money getting her arm remade. Instead she donated a pile of cash to get dwarves raised from the dead. And helped others. And made a family. A family who are now coming to save her son, and her, and the whole fate of the dwarves, and the freakin’ universe. Because she chose to do one unselfish deed, which has come around to benefit herself and everyone else in a huge way.

And she’s all but rubbing it in Hilgya’s face.

Sure, there’s nothing preventing Sigdi from getting her arm done, from a technical or tactical point of view, but she hasn’t done it as of this very moment because Rich is probably highlighting the difference between Hilgya’s and Sigdi’s moral viewpoints.

[zimmerwald1915]

...

Does this mean Minrah just got adopted into the Thundershield Clan as well?

Considering that the means of induction into the Thundershield Clan is apparently to get resurrected by a member, and that Minrah was probably resurrected (with the raise dead spell, to be clear) by Durkon, yeah, she's a cousin of some kind.

[BlueHydra]

Dwarvengers Assemble!

[ShinigamiKenji]

I almost never comment here, but when I do, it's due to badassery and awesomeness.

And this strip has plenty of both, from Minrah and Sigdi calling out on Hilgya and the Dwarven charge. Honestly, this whole book is especially filled with such moments.

[Wysper]

I think the reasoning is, she wouldn't let him. It doesn't really matter what Sigdi's reasoning is. Just that she didn't allow Durkon to do it. And it's not really a surprise. We always knew she didn't want the arm regenerated.

I think it's her way of honoring her fallen husband.

[Taojnhy]

After seeing Sigdi previously (and awesomely) put Hilgya in her place, the third and fourth panels seem a lot more foreshadowy to me.

[zimmerwald1915]

I think it's her way of honoring her fallen husband.

Honoring, refusing to move on from; po-ta-to, po-tah-to.

[Kish]

That second panel...DANG. Minrah picked a REALLY good time to roll a Nat 20 on his Intimidate check.

Minrah's a her.

[The_Weirdo]

Why didn’t Sigdi get her arm restored?

Because that’s the point of the strip.

Sigdi could have done the immediate and selfish thing and spent the money getting her arm remade. Instead she donated a pile of cash to get dwarves raised from the dead. And helped others. And made a family. A family who are now coming to save her son, and her, and the whole fate of the dwarves, and the freakin’ universe. Because she chose to do one unselfish deed, which has come around to benefit herself and everyone else in a huge way.

And she’s all but rubbing it in Hilgya’s face.

Sure, there’s nothing preventing Sigdi from getting her arm done, from a technical or tactical point of view, but she hasn’t done it as of this very moment because Rich is probably highlighting the difference between Hilgya’s and Sigdi’s moral viewpoints.

Sigdi was given an option regarding what to spend her money on.

Hilgya was married off at crossbow point and reacted accordingly.

Both should be praised for what they did: Sigdi for rezzing five people and Hilgya for destroying a sex trafficking ring.

Regardless, the three, in this strip, were awesome in their own ways.

Minrah took charge and is acting on determination and grit alone - and she's earhed respect.

Hilgya is a powerhouse - which makes sense, since her family caused her to, as a first-level commoner, have to become an adventurer.

Sigdi is helping through both her own skills and the fact that she created a community of people willing to rally for her.

[Lombard]

lol hey did Rich pull a Stan Lee and cameo himself in?

[Giscard76]

Hazzah! That is all..

[Malfarian]

I almost cheered out loud at work!

Thanks!

[NihhusHuotAliro]

Honoring, refusing to move on from; po-ta-to, po-tah-to.

You know the phrase, "these are our hills, we will die on them"?

Some things, you don't move on from. Some things, you never let go of. Once you find something like that, you'll understand.

Also, I've never heard anybody say, "po-tah-to" except when using that phrase (and no, I'm not going to just call the whole thing off. Potahto is wrong and potato is right).

[ManuelSacha]

Nice!
I'm happy to see the entire Thundershield clan, and I love that they have skalds.
Also, Minrah is being especially passive-aggressive with Hilgya for the whole killing her affair... and it's hilarious!

[understatement]

Just dropping a few thoughts:

Always loved Minrah, loving her more now.

Sigdi oozes awesome.

Hilgya's offhand Flame Strike is pretty decent.

I really hope these dwarves are high enough level; the Order handles the worm, Hilgya and Durkon should be able to take out the Exarch, Minrah and the others could take out the two spawn.

ANYways --

yahhhhhhh

i really need to check my brain cells

[Giscard76]

lol hey did Rich pull a Stan Lee and cameo himself in?

I think maybe he did

[The_Weirdo]

Nice!
I'm happy to see the entire Thundershield clan, and I love that they have skalds.
Also, Minrah is being especially passive-aggressive with Hilgya for the whole killing her affair... and it's hilarious!

I guess it's understandable: high-level adventurers would let the whole domination thing go - a "1" happens and, for the higher levels, can have more consequences. But Minrah doesn't have that experience yet.

On Hilgya vs. Sigdi: Both learned very true lessons about family and community, lessons that intertwine:

Hilgya learned that, when your only "family" is a bunch of complete and utter monsters that treat you as property, you have to become self-reliant and independently strong.

Sigdi learned that you can create your own family and that there is a lot of power in having a bunch of people willing to go to bat for you.

Both these facts are true. Both of them represent power and ability. One from a Chaotic standpoint, the standpoint of those who had to be self-reliant, and other from a Lawful standpoint, the standpoint of those who were able to find and create support.

[Ruck]

So is her son. So are her friends. From what we've seen so far, she doesn't seem like the kind of person to dance around and make up things instead of just being direct, especially to adult Durkon.

To this discussion, I'll add that Sigdi has to know that Durkon became a Cleric in order to regenerate her arm. Not letting him do so seems cruel. Plus, we already know she's learned a lesson about accepting help when offered.

That second panel...DANG. Minrah picked a REALLY good time to roll a Nat 20 on his Intimidate check.

"his"?

Anyone else filled with the certainty that Sigdi is about to get her honourable death? The circle is complete, her reward and reunion are nigh.

Nah, seems too cruel.

It's better than "BARF!"

NOTHING is better than "BARF!" (We are talking River City Ransom, right?)

Also, what's the opposite of Familicide? Because I think that's what we're looking at here.

Summon Family IX: On top of allowing the caster to summon XdY family members of Z level, it allows the caster to summon people they have strong personal bonds with, even if they are not biological family.

[The_Weirdo]

Summon Family IX: On top of allowing the caster to summon XdY family members of Z level, it allows the caster to summon people they have strong personal bonds with, even if they are not biological family.

While Sigdi got that through her own merits, it kinda helps that she likely told her people that their souls were at stake, no?

[Resileaf]

While Sigdi got that through her own merits, it kinda helps that she likely told her people that their souls were at stake, no?

Or maybe she said "I really need your help right now", and because they're family and love each other, they all went "We'll be here in fifteen minutes" because that's what family does.

[Michaeler]

Honestly, what is the likelihood that Sigdi doesn't have Improved Single Weapon Fighting after all these years?

[The_Weirdo]

Or maybe she said "I really need your help right now", and because they're family and love each other, they all went "We'll be here in fifteen minutes" because that's what family does.

Oh, don't mistake what I said for dissing Sigdi. The simple fact that - if she DID tell them that their souls were at stake and how - they believed her is a testament to Sigdi's ability to rally her family.

[Tobrian]

I really wish Hilgya would get a visit from her god, Loki, who should give his apathetic cleric a stern talking-to. At the Godsmoot, Loki voted AGAINST the plan to destroy the world! Loki was actually on the same side as Thor, they both don't want Hel to win!

I think Hilgya may finally realize what Durkon is thinking about when he talks about "family" and "marriage." She may yet come about! [romantic heart-eyes emoji]

Ew, oh gods no. Hilgya shows all the signs of being a sociopath (inability to follow rules way beyond the scope of being of "chaotic alignment" or beyond being the cleric of a chaotic Trickster deity like Loki(*), to the point of going against her own best interests just to spite others) and a psychopath (lack of empathy, seeing other people as things).

Hilgya not only failed her Will save despite her cleric boni, she seems to be dumb as rocks. "I don't even know why I'm here", she complains. Uh, to save the world from being destroyed?

She is extremely selfish, approaches all social interaction in terms of economic exchange ("What do I get out of it?", "How are you useful to me?"), but projects her selfishness unto others (like falsely claiming her family abused her for arranging a marriage to a loving husband, when they were simply acting like a normal dwarven family), complaining how anyone else doesn't put her interests front and center. She does even seem to give a crap about her own child beyond a general "my child is my property, therefore I defend him" behaviour. I wonder what will happen when Kudzu grows up and as a teenager dares defy his mother's will...?
------

(*) Compare Hilgya with Elan, who is canonically chaotic good, or even with Belkar, who is chaotic evil... despite being chaotic both are able to work with others and able to form emotional attachments to animals and people. Hilgya isn't.

Hilgya strikes me, in fact, more as neutral evil, which is the alignment best summed up as: "I don't give a damn about anyone or anything else except my own advantage, and will betray or kill anyone to get it". She is defiant of authorities (making me wonder why she became a cleric, a class that is all about following commandments of your deity?) but she can be strong-armed by anyone with stronger willpower into trudging along, because deep down "anarchy" isn't a worldview for her as it would for a chaotic character. Instead she is more "meh, whatever, fate of the world doesn't interest me, I just want make everyone feel how put-upon I am!"

[Ruck]

I don't understand the argument that Sigdi won't get her arm restored because it's a reminder of Tenrin. As Peelee said, she's both pragmatic and has plenty of reminders of Tenrin around, including the son she hasn't seen in almost twenty years. She doesn't strike me as the sentimental type, or she probably would have chosen to resurrect Tenrin in the first place instead of saving five dwarves from Hel. I think she would have had her arm regenerated by now if she could afford it.

Re: Hilgya, I think she's going to hopefully get a lesson here in what family at its best can be, which will be especially interesting if the theory (one I lean towards myself) that the dwarf who survived the troll attack and gave Sigdi the chest of loot is a Firehelm.

[Fyraltari]

While Sigdi got that through her own merits, it kinda helps that she likely told her people that their souls were at stake, no?

Or maybe she said "I really need your help right now", and because they're family and love each other, they all went "We'll be here in fifteen minutes" because that's what family does.

I think that the fact she clearly told them to come armed gave them an idea of what’s going down.
Here’s hoping she told them the humans and Blackwing are good guys.

[Peelee]

Sigdi was given an option regarding what to spend her money on.

The parallel is referring to after both got their respective riches, not just any point in their lives. So Sigdi after getting the chest, and Hilgya after getting her clan's treasury. From thereon out, Hilgya had exactly as much option as Sigdi, is what that person was talking about.

[DougTheHead]

Geez, every single time we get a new detail about Sigdi's "family," it gets dusty in here. Really going to need to ask the janitorial staff about that...

There's something that's just beautiful about Sigdi's story, and powerful in a way the really important myths are. The idea that one woman takes a group of people who were at the very dregs of their society, people who, for one reason or another, had no one, in a highly-tribal society where family connections were everything, and gave them another chance at life... and they, in turn, chose to be her new family... all without knowing anything about each other, with no motive other than the idea that everyone deserves a family.

For whatever reason, the selflessness and grace inherent in that idea makes me choke up a lot more than "sad" scenes do.

[The_Weirdo]

I really wish Hilgya would get a visit from her god, Loki, who should give his apathetic cleric a stern talking-to. At the Godsmoot, Loki voted AGAINST the plan to destroy the world! Loki was actually on the same side as Thor, they both don't want Hel to win!


Ew, oh gods no. Hilgya shows all the signs of being a sociopath (inability to follow rules way beyond the scope of being of "chaotic alignment" or beyond being the cleric of a chaotic Trickster deity like Loki(*), to the point of going against her own best interests just to spite others) and a psychopath (lack of empathy, seeing other people as things).

Hilgya not only failed her Will save despite her cleric boni, she seems to be dumb as rocks. "I don't even know why I'm here", she complains. Uh, to save the world from being destroyed?

She is extremely selfish, approaches all social interaction in terms of economic exchange ("What do I get out of it?", "How are you useful to me?"), but projects her selfishness unto others, complaining how anyone else doesn't put her interests front and center. She does even seem to give a crap about her own child beyond a general "my child is my property, therefore I defend him" behaviour. I wonder what will happen when Kudzu grows up and as a teenager dares defy his mother's will...?

(*) Compare Hilgya with Elan, who is canonically chaotic good, or even with Belkar, who is chaotic evil... despite being chaotic both are able to work with others and able to form emotional attachments to animals and people. Hilgya isn't.

Hilgya strikes me, in fact, more as neutral evil, which is the alignment best summed up as: "I don't give a damn about anyone or anything else except my own advantage, and will betray or kill anyone to get it". She is defiant of authorities (making me wonder why she became a cleric, a class that is all about following commandments of your deity?) but she can be strong-armed by anyone with stronger willpower into trudging along, because deep down "anarchy" isn't a worldview for her as it would for a chaotic character. Instead she is more "meh, whatever, fate of the world doesn't interest me, I just want make everyone feel how put-upon I am!"

"Inability to follow rules".

What rules? Whose rules?

She has a strong emotional bond with Kudzu. You know, the ONE family she chose to have and the ONE family that never had a crossbow pointed at her.

As for being defiant of authorities, anyone with the same personal info as yourself should see value in defying authorities. Or at least understand what happens when people do not.

[Kashem]

Is anyone else afraid that 1/2 the family is going to end up dominated now?
That said, there are now at least 4 bards in the area. The last fight was the "All Clerics" fight, are we now in for the "Bards Ahoy!" fight? Are we in for seeing Domination gaze vs. Seduction? How many of them do you think have the Song of Freedom? It'd be epic to watch them repeatedly counter the dominations, and even more epic to see Belkar's comments on dwarves singing country music with their accents!

[The_Weirdo]

Re: Hilgya, I think she's going to hopefully get a lesson here in what family at its best can be, which will be especially interesting if the theory (one I lean towards myself) that the dwarf who survived the troll attack and gave Sigdi the chest of loot is a Firehelm.

While that lesson is fundamentally correct - especially, and I cannot stress this enough, given that Sigdi's family isn't by blood - I am not sure that Hilgya would be able to process that, trauma being what it is.