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  1. - Top - End - #181
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    Default Re: OOTS #1162 - The Discussion Thread

    I know I'm going to regret poking the Hilgya discourse, but isn't saying arranged marriage is bad because it's sex trafficking kind of like saying assault is bad because it's murder? When you want to talk about how awful something is, exclusively referring to it in reference to some other worse thing obscures your point. That's not the only reason that argument is messed up but it's the most perplexing.

    Anyway Hilgya is unapologetically apathetic to the feelings and safety of others and no amount of backstory is even attempting to justify that so the whole train of thought is a red herring.

  2. - Top - End - #182
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    Default Re: OOTS #1162 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Kish View Post
    I believe that is the definition of trolling, actually: posting specifically to evoke an angry response.

    For example, if Rich had actually written Hilgya shutting down a sex trafficking ring, I doubt very much the Weirdo would repeat that she did anywhere near as many times as he has stated that as it is.
    The definition I know is that trolls starts fights they have no dog in and once two sides are duking it out, sit back and watch the chaos they have wrought.
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  3. - Top - End - #183
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    Default Re: OOTS #1162 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by NihhusHuotAliro View Post
    Also, I've never heard anybody say, "po-tah-to" except when using that phrase (and no, I'm not going to just call the whole thing off. Potahto is wrong and potato is right).
    Let's call the whole thing off.
    Quote Originally Posted by Malifice View Post
    (paraphrased) Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.
    Quote Originally Posted by greenstone View Post
    Player agency doesn't mean they get to roll for everything. Agency means that they control their character's actions; you control the world's reactions to the character's actions.
    Gosh, 2D8HP, you are so very correct (and also quite handsome) or so I am told ... by 2D8HP

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    Default Re: OOTS #1162 - The Discussion Thread

    Example: to-may-to.
    "Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced."
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  5. - Top - End - #185
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    Default Re: OOTS #1162 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by NihhusHuotAliro View Post
    How in the world can you just throw all of that humanity under the bus? How can it please you, a human, to call humanity so base?
    Very easily. Fortunately, we won't be around much longer.
    You, who have nothing at all to believe in; to you, whose motto is "money comes first;" who are you, to tell us that our lives have been wasted? That all that we've fought for has turned into dust?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    I'm jumping on the Zim bandwagon.
    Human stick-figure Twilight Sparkle by me. Find more here.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1162 - The Discussion Thread

    What I like about zimmer is his unbridled optimism.
    "Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced."
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  7. - Top - End - #187
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    Default Re: OOTS #1162 - The Discussion Thread

    Thundersheilds! ASSEMBLE!!!!
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  8. - Top - End - #188
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    Default Re: OOTS #1162 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Pablo360 View Post
    I know I'm going to regret poking the Hilgya discourse, but isn't saying arranged marriage is bad because it's sex trafficking kind of like saying assault is bad because it's murder?
    Nope.

    In a forced marriage, the person forcing it is all but always also giving the husband of the unwilling bride free reign on her sexual availability. That is just a horrible fact.
    Quote Originally Posted by factotum View Post
    Oh Lord, somebody said "The_Weirdo" three times into a mirror again, didn't they?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lacuna Caster View Post
    Weirdo... I'm not sure you're entirely clear on how an 'alliance' works.

  9. - Top - End - #189
    Halfling in the Playground
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    Default Re: OOTS #1162 - The Discussion Thread

    Well that's just plain heart-warming. All the hands she'll need indeed.

    Also, i love that she knows exactly how to phrase things for Hilgya to accept them.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1162 - The Discussion Thread

    I also like that there's a third lute-wielding dwarf: Squeaky's apprentice has an apprentice of her own?

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    Default Re: OOTS #1162 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by NihhusHuotAliro View Post
    How in the world can you just throw all of that humanity under the bus? How can it please you, a human, to call humanity so base?
    By acknowledging that I would definitely be just as bad if I had with the same upbringing they had.
    Many (if not most) of our ancestors were horrible people. There is a crapton of horrible humans alive right now. Heck, I scare myself sometimes with the horrible thoughts I don't act upon. Lying to ourselves about it won't make things any better.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    Example: to-may-to.
    Excuse me, dear sir, but I believe you mean to-mah-to.
    Yes, I am slightly egomaniac. Why didn't you ask?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari
    Also this isn’t D&D, flaming the troll doesn’t help either.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1162 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Michaeler View Post
    Honestly, what is the likelihood that Sigdi doesn't have Improved Single Weapon Fighting after all these years?
    Low, given that Sarge led armed patrols for a number of years.
    Quote Originally Posted by DougTheHead View Post
    Geez, every single time we get a new detail about Sigdi's "family," it gets dusty in here. Really going to need to ask the janitorial staff about that... For whatever reason, the selflessness and grace inherent in that idea makes me choke up a lot more than "sad" scenes do.
    Yep, I have a few leaks here that I need to see someone about.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    Also this isn’t D&D, flaming the troll doesn’t help either.
    But it can feel cathartic, for a moment.
    Quote Originally Posted by NihhusHuotAliro View Post
    How have you not gone insane
    Uh, on a saner forum, we would not need Jasdoif's index. From that premise, I have determined that we are all insane. Reminds me of a Jimmy Buffet lyric ... (If we weren't all crazy we'd just go insane...)
    Quote Originally Posted by Kish View Post
    I believe that is the definition of trolling, actually: posting specifically to evoke an angry response. For example, if Rich had actually written Hilgya shutting down a sex trafficking ring, I doubt very much the Weirdo would repeat that she did anywhere near as many times as he has stated that as it is.
    We have a winner.
    Quote Originally Posted by Pablo360 View Post
    I know I'm going to regret poking the Hilgya discourse, but isn't saying arranged marriage is bad because it's sex trafficking kind of like saying assault is bad because it's murder? When you want to talk about how awful something is, exclusively referring to it in reference to some other worse thing obscures your point. That's not the only reason that argument is messed up but it's the most perplexing.
    Hyperbole is, as often as not, a lie as a means to make a point by overstatement. Consider the source.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    Example: to-may-to.
    To-mah-to.
    Last edited by KorvinStarmast; 2019-04-29 at 02:56 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Malifice View Post
    (paraphrased) Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.
    Quote Originally Posted by greenstone View Post
    Player agency doesn't mean they get to roll for everything. Agency means that they control their character's actions; you control the world's reactions to the character's actions.
    Gosh, 2D8HP, you are so very correct (and also quite handsome) or so I am told ... by 2D8HP

  13. - Top - End - #193
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    Default Re: OOTS #1162 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Tobrian View Post
    I wonder what will happen when Kudzu grows up and as a teenager dares defy his mother's will...?
    Teenager? She's going to murder him by the Terrible Twos at the latest.

    And Hilgya is capital C Chaotic all the way, else there's be no Chaos Hammer or Anarchic Giraffes.

  14. - Top - End - #194
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    Default Re: OOTS #1162 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey Watcher View Post
    I also like that there's a third lute-wielding dwarf: Squeaky's apprentice has an apprentice of her own?
    Either that or she graduated and he needed money.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cazero View Post
    By acknowledging that I would definitely be just as bad if I had with the same upbringing they had.
    Many (if not most) of our ancestors were horrible people. There is a crapton of horrible humans alive right now. Heck, I scare myself sometimes with the horrible thoughts I don't act upon. Lying to ourselves about it won't make things any better.
    Pretending to be worse than we are, however does make things worse.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cazero View Post
    Excuse me, dear sir, but I believe you mean to-mah-to.
    Do not feed the example.
    Last edited by Fyraltari; 2019-04-30 at 02:45 AM.
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  15. - Top - End - #195
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    Default Re: OOTS #1162 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Cazero View Post
    Excuse me, dear sir, but I believe you mean to-mah-to.
    Toe-mayah-toa, guys. It ain't that complicated.
    Who're you? ...Don't matter.

    Want some rye? 'Course ya do!


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  16. - Top - End - #196
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    Default Re: OOTS #1162 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by NihhusHuotAliro View Post
    jhmnn bn

    --snip--

    nb n jhnyjhnhgbjhngtbhjmnkjhmngvb bn bn bn bn bnbn bvbb
    If Nihhus ends up summoning Great Cthulhu, I'm blaming Weirdo.

  17. - Top - End - #197
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    Default Re: OOTS #1162 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogar Demonblud View Post
    And Hilgya is capital C Chaotic all the way, else there's be no Chaos Hammer or Anarchic Giraffes.
    Sure there could be; she's barred from casting spells directly opposed to her alignment, but a Neutral Evil cleric (Tsukiko, say) could freely cast Chaotic and Lawful spells, just not Good ones.

    That said, Hilgya strikes me as really blatantly Chaotic Evil, with neither axis in question.
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    "The really unforgivable acts are committed by calm men in beautiful green silk rooms, who deal death wholesale, by the shipload, without lust, or anger, or desire, or any redeeming emotion to excuse them but cold fear of some pretended future. But the crimes they hope to prevent in the future are imaginary. The ones they commit in the present--they are real." --Aral Vorkosigan

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    This, in a nutshell.
    Yes, exactly.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1162 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogar Demonblud View Post
    If Nihhus ends up summoning Great Cthulhu, I'm blaming Weirdo.
    Being blamed for things other people do isn't exactly novel to me.
    Quote Originally Posted by factotum View Post
    Oh Lord, somebody said "The_Weirdo" three times into a mirror again, didn't they?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lacuna Caster View Post
    Weirdo... I'm not sure you're entirely clear on how an 'alliance' works.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1162 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Ironsmith View Post
    Toe-mayah-toa, guys. It ain't that complicated.
    Gollum voice
    It's taters, Precious!
    Quote Originally Posted by Malifice View Post
    (paraphrased) Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.
    Quote Originally Posted by greenstone View Post
    Player agency doesn't mean they get to roll for everything. Agency means that they control their character's actions; you control the world's reactions to the character's actions.
    Gosh, 2D8HP, you are so very correct (and also quite handsome) or so I am told ... by 2D8HP

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    Default Re: OOTS #1162 - The Discussion Thread

    I'm really not understanding why Sigdi's reasoning is still being debated, she flat out said it. She didn't want Durkon to waste a powerful spell on her when something so important is going on, and even without that she's not sure if she'd want it back because she's gotten so used to being without it (which is a real thing, by the way).

    Why are people still insisting the "real reason" is because "she never let go"?
    I'd just like to point out that saying that something unsupported is the case unless someone else can prove that it is not is an utter failure of logic. - Kish

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    Default Re: OOTS #1162 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogar Demonblud View Post
    If Nihhus ends up summoning Great Cthulhu, I'm blaming Weirdo.
    We’ll be fine as long as nobody writes Y'golonac.
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    Default Re: OOTS #1162 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    We’ll be fine as long as nobody writes Y'golonac.
    You just did.
    Quote Originally Posted by factotum View Post
    Oh Lord, somebody said "The_Weirdo" three times into a mirror again, didn't they?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lacuna Caster View Post
    Weirdo... I'm not sure you're entirely clear on how an 'alliance' works.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1162 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Kish View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Rogar Demonblud View Post
    And Hilgya is capital C Chaotic all the way, else there's be no Chaos Hammer or Anarchic Giraffes.
    Sure there could be; she's barred from casting spells directly opposed to her alignment, but a Neutral Evil cleric (Tsukiko, say) could freely cast Chaotic and Lawful spells, just not Good ones.
    Chaos hammer isn't on the standard cleric list; it's only available via the Chaos domain, and a cleric can only select an alignment domain if it matches their own alignment.

  24. - Top - End - #204
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    Default Re: OOTS #1162 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    The definition I know is that trolls starts fights they have no dog in and once two sides are duking it out, sit back and watch the chaos they have wrought.
    I have known several definitions of trolling. The one that applies to this forum is, as per the Forum Rules:

    Trolling
    Any post or comment that, in the judgment of the Moderators, was made solely or primarily to incite angry responses and/or flames or attempts to disrupt a thread so that it becomes a flame war will be edited to remove the offending content and the poster issued an Infraction. If a thread is judged to have been started for this reason, it will be locked, and the poster issued an Infraction.

    In particular, editing a quote of another user's post to insult the poster or to make the other user's words appear misleading, inflammatory, or insulting is considered trolling, and any such modified quotes will be removed and an Infraction issued.

    Also, comments that are pointless negation of the purpose of a thread ("threadcrapping") or comments predicting the thread will end badly ("doomsaying") are also likely to be trolling.


    Quote Originally Posted by Pablo360 View Post
    I know I'm going to regret poking the Hilgya discourse, but isn't saying arranged marriage is bad because it's sex trafficking kind of like saying assault is bad because it's murder? When you want to talk about how awful something is, exclusively referring to it in reference to some other worse thing obscures your point. That's not the only reason that argument is messed up but it's the most perplexing.
    Oh, it's worse than that. For Hilgya to have "destroyed a sex trafficking operation" would require her to have stopped future arranged marriages and terminated the ones that were already in place. She did neither. In fact, by bankrupting the clan, she ensured that they'd have to marry off even more of the members of the family to try to dig themselves out of the hole they are in.

    Only in The_weirdo's mind is what Hilgya did in any way good for any of the people married into the family. In reality, before they were married against their will to what was at least a wealthy lifestyle. Now, they are still married against their will, and in poverty. Progress? Not at all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by woweedd View Post
    I would say that's the dumbest theory Grey Wolf's heard, but, let's be honest: It's Grey Wolf. They've probably heard dumber theories today. Point is, neat idea, but it's a real stretch.
    Ceterum autem censeo Hilgya malefica est

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    Default Re: OOTS #1162 - The Discussion Thread

    Panel 8: foreshadowing.
    "I don't know, strap a shield to it?"

    Someone mentioned a Rich B cameo, but the only bespectacled dwarf in the stampede of dwarves has golden, not red, hair.
    For Hilgya to have "destroyed a sex trafficking operation" would require her to have stopped future arranged marriages and terminated the ones that were already in place. She did neither. In fact, by bankrupting the clan, she ensured that they'd have to marry off even more of the members of the family to try to dig themselves out of the hole they are in.
    Yeah. (Related to my point earlier on about hyperbole and truth having an uneasy relationship (at best), thanks for going into detail).
    Last edited by KorvinStarmast; 2019-04-29 at 03:07 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Malifice View Post
    (paraphrased) Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.
    Quote Originally Posted by greenstone View Post
    Player agency doesn't mean they get to roll for everything. Agency means that they control their character's actions; you control the world's reactions to the character's actions.
    Gosh, 2D8HP, you are so very correct (and also quite handsome) or so I am told ... by 2D8HP

  26. - Top - End - #206
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    Default Re: OOTS #1162 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by KorvinStarmast View Post
    "I don't know, strap a thundershield to it?"
    Joke: Fixed it for you.
    Level Point System 5E
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    Default Re: OOTS #1162 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Ironsmith View Post
    Toe-mayah-toa, guys. It ain't that complicated.
    Pistols at dawn.
    I'd offer to gut each others with swords like civilized people, but you pronounce it toe-mayah-toa.
    Yes, I am slightly egomaniac. Why didn't you ask?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari
    Also this isn’t D&D, flaming the troll doesn’t help either.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1162 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    Oh, it's worse than that. For Hilgya to have "destroyed a sex trafficking operation" would require her to have stopped future arranged marriages and terminated the ones that were already in place. She did neither. In fact, by bankrupting the clan, she ensured that they'd have to marry off even more of the members of the family to try to dig themselves out of the hole they are in.

    Only in The_weirdo's mind is what Hilgya did in any way good for any of the people married into the family. In reality, before they were married against their will to what was at least a wealthy lifestyle. Now, they are still married against their will, and in poverty. Progress? Not at all.

    Grey Wolf
    Oh, that is rich. You spent months arguing for Hilgya's personal responsibility in reacting to what the clan did to her, and now that they are penniless, your first response is that they'll have to marry off more people? Can't they work to get money, like any normal person?
    Quote Originally Posted by factotum View Post
    Oh Lord, somebody said "The_Weirdo" three times into a mirror again, didn't they?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lacuna Caster View Post
    Weirdo... I'm not sure you're entirely clear on how an 'alliance' works.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1162 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Weirdo View Post
    You just did.
    —————— The Joke —————>






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    Default Re: OOTS #1162 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Weirdo View Post
    Well, if only everyone could agree on the absolute truth that forced marriage is and will always be completely wrong and that it entitles the victim to redress, we'd not be in this situation.
    Not only has that never been your argument, given how frequently you've expressed that your feelings here are driven and justified by your personal experiences, you've got no claim to be arbiting "absolute" anything.

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