So there's a new season of She-Ra...

[Cikomyr]

Heya. Just finished season 1. It's a great show so far and I am looking forward watching more of it.

One thing I wanted to point out though.

I love shows where the style and personality of factions happen to flip when you look at their overall impact in the world. For example, the Jedi and Siths are in actions, Appollonians and Dyonisians, respectively (one side emphasize self disciple, the other side is about indulging your desires) .

However, when you look at their systems of government and leadership, Jedi become Dyonisians and Siths are Appollonians (one side is about compromise and coexistence, the other are about tyranny and power centralization).

I feel like the Rebellion/Horde power relationship is a complete mirror of Catra/She Ra.

The Horde is basically a juggernaut. Except in certain circumstances, the Rebellion is usually completely outclassed by its military might and has to use stratagems and stealth to defeat it.

Now look at She Ra vs Catra. She Ra completely outclasses the Force Captain at a degree that its not even funny. To compete against her, Catra has to distract her, stealth around, use delay tactics, etc..

Just found that interesting.

[Reddish Mage]

Heya. Just finished season 1. It's a great show so far and I am looking forward watching more of it.

One thing I wanted to point out though.

I love shows where the style and personality of factions happen to flip when you look at their overall impact in the world. For example, the Jedi and Siths are in actions, Appollonians and Dyonisians, respectively (one side emphasize self disciple, the other side is about indulging your desires) .

However, when you look at their systems of government and leadership, Jedi become Dyonisians and Siths are Appollonians (one side is about compromise and coexistence, the other are about tyranny and power centralization).

I feel like the Rebellion/Horde power relationship is a complete mirror of Catra/She Ra.

The Horde is basically a juggernaut. Except in certain circumstances, the Rebellion is usually completely outclassed by its military might and has to use stratagems and stealth to defeat it.

Now look at She Ra vs Catra. She Ra completely outclasses the Force Captain at a degree that its not even funny. To compete against her, Catra has to distract her, stealth around, use delay tactics, etc..

Just found that interesting.

Tiny Bow will be avenged!

Wait what? I'm not sure you're flipped style looks right. Yes, Jedi are the strict discipline order supporting a system of freedom and diversity. However, Sith are only nominally about freedom, as the Sith whose the Master seems to put down a fairly heavy foot. You speak as if there's a lot of this sort of thing, but I don't think Jedi/Sith are the best, nor can I think of other examples, except all the times the villains or dictators convince the world they are the heroes and the saviors and the heroes are the dastardly evildoers. Misinformation aside, usually what you see on the inside is the affect you get on the outside.

Also, while the Horde, by name and with its huge supply of robots, seems strong, but the princesses are actually personally stronger than most of the Horde's forces, with only Shadowweaver and Catra having the potential to go one-on-one. Bright Moon is said to be too strong, and we see from the final that when the Alliance comes together they are simply more powerful than what the Horde throws at them. The Alliance attacks plenty of times from a position of strength, as does the Horde. The Horde also doesn't have a monopoly on stealth. The group sneaks into the Fright Zone!

I'd add Season 2 spoilers to support this, but you indicated you haven't watched that far. Suffice to say, I don't see a clear trend of either side favoring strength or stealth, although Catra has that underhanded villainess thing going on and Adora is certainly the naive straight fighting sort of Warrior (which doesn't mean she can't sneak around). These are just classic villain/hero tropes.

There's a lot of interesting themes in this She-ra, but I'm pretty sure inverted external/internal styles is not one of them.

[Cikomyr]

Tiny Bow will be avenged!

Wait what? I'm not sure you're flipped style looks right. Yes, Jedi are the strict discipline order supporting a system of freedom and diversity. However, Sith are only nominally about freedom, as the Sith whose the Master seems to put down a fairly heavy foot.

I am not going to argue this with you if you can't be bothered to properly read my post.

[Reddish Mage]

*cough* in your terms, yes Jedi are stylistically Appollonians supporting a more Dyonisian regime. However, Sith are only Dyonisian if you don't consider how authoritarian and manipulative Darth Sidious is. Also, Sith are all about giving into anger and other dark and violent impulses, but eh, that fits the Nietzschean duality you're giving (although I'm not sure it fits what you call Dyonisian).

This specific duality you don't see in She-ra so I'm not sure why you decided to go Greek in the first place, and I don't see the strength/stealth duality being all that strong, let alone flipped in the way you're talking about.

[Resileaf]

I'd add Season 2 spoilers to support this, but you indicated you haven't watched that far. Suffice to say, I don't see a clear trend of either side favoring strength or stealth, although Catra has that underhanded villainess thing going on and Adora is certainly the naive straight fighting sort of Warrior (which doesn't mean she can't sneak around). These are just classic villain/hero tropes.

I wouldn't quite call Adora the naive straight fighter.
She's the naive gay fighter.

But seriously, she's actually less naive than most of her companions because she seems to recognize the danger the Horde and Catra pose more than everyone else, at least in the Roll with it episode. And she's not a straight fighter either because she's got military experience and knows how to use it. She doesn't go around challenging people to a duel, even if she spends most of her time fighting against the bigger threats. She plans like a military tactician, strategizing what is best to do in a given situation. And it just so happens that what is usually best is for her to go in big to get everyone's attention so her allies can do what they do best without being focused.
She's the party tank, basically.

[Cikomyr]

*cough* in your terms, yes Jedi are stylistically Appollonians supporting a more Dyonisian regime. However, Sith are only Dyonisian if you don't consider how authoritarian and manipulative Darth Sidious is.

The only reason you would say that is if you purposely did not read the part where I expressedly wrote that their inclinations switch around when it comes to group organisations; since Siths are Tyrannical and Jedi are Democratic.

I mean, that was the entire bloody argument. How the hell did you managed to just focus on the first two sentences and ignore everything else?! Are you so stuck up on correcting someone after half a paragraph you stop reading after?

This specific duality you don't see in She-ra so I'm not sure why you decided to go Greek in the first place, and I don't see the strength/stealth duality being all that strong, let alone flipped in the way you're talking about.

I decided to "go Greek" only for the Jedi/Sith dichotomy. The point I was making, if you had tried to read it instead of skimming it, is that I like swapping thematics. The Greek thingy was the thematic basis for the Jedi/Sith, while for She-Ra it was entirely about Power/Subversion.

It's not displayed any better than the season 1 finale. The Horde kicks ass everywhere She Ra isn't until the Princesses arrive. Cathra has to distract She Ra to win the fight. Swapping thematics.

[Resileaf]

It's not displayed any better than the season 1 finale. The Horde kicks ass everywhere She Ra isn't until the Princesses arrive. Cathra has to distract She Ra to win the fight. Swapping thematics.

Adora is too easily distracted. Put those eye blockers that coach-pulling horses have so she can tunnel vision on Catra.

[Aotrs Commander]

Been corrupting my nice and nephew today by binging the series again. Still as good the second time around.



Had a brief skim around for fanfic (since niece is sleeping in the front room, wherein the telly is). Looked at both Fanfic and Ao3 and there wasn't a single thing that looked appealing. Disappointingly, the usual gamut (with the vast majority of stories being Adora/Catra shipping). Was kinda hoping for something, y'know adventure-y, but not chance of that, seems like.

[LibraryOgre]

Bow's Dad's moustache makes me ask questions about his infatuation with Sea Hawk.

[LaZodiac]

Bow's Dad's moustache makes me ask questions about his infatuation with Sea Hawk.

Seahaw is the action dad he never had, except he can kiss him and it's not weird. That's great!

Also god I just thought of Seahawk meeting Bow's parents and it would be... basically awful, since I'm pretty sure Seahawk's gungho ADVENTAH! attitude is counter to Bow's parents completely.

[Celestia]

Bow's Dad's moustache makes me ask questions about his infatuation with Sea Hawk.

Well, according to Freudian psychology, everyone secretly wants to boop their parents and instinctively look for partners that are physically and/or mentally similar.



Of course, Freud was a hack and got almost everything wrong, so take that with a grain of salt.

[LaZodiac]

Well, according to Freudian psychology, everyone secretly wants to boop their parents and instinctively look for partners that are physically and/or mentally similar.



Of course, Freud was a hack and got almost everything wrong, so take that with a grain of salt.

Freud was wrong as **** but "Mom I can hug" and "Dad I can kiss" are two pretty relatable feelings, I think. Not from my part, but just a general pulse I'm feeling looking at the world and people in it.

[Ramza00]

Bow's Dad's moustache makes me ask questions about his infatuation with Sea Hawk.

This could be true.

Another thing it may be is one of Bow's dad's looks like Bow's 80 outfit appearance, same type of heart and everything. Instead of showing Bow's abs his dad's outfit has a different color there. That same dad also has an 80's Bow's mustache just like Sea Hawk does.

What I am saying is Bow's dad outfit is an Easter egg and is not necessarily something Freudian with Sea Hawk. Then again how can you not find Sea Hawk adorable, it is like a smarter version of Friends Joey while still being Joey.

[Ramza00]

Bumps this thread for a new season of She-Ra is out. I have not had time to watch it yet but if this thread makes people aware of it followed by watching She-Ra season 3, it will then help synchronize the conservation.

[Aotrs Commander]

Bumps this thread for a new season of She-Ra is out. I have not had time to watch it yet but if this thread makes people aware of it followed by watching She-Ra season 3, it will then help synchronize the conservation.

Oh, neat. *tips helmet*

Back from holiday just in time, then...

(It's out on Netflix UK, by-the-by.)

Only six episodes, which sort of confirms what was suspected with season 2, in that it's really just the second half of a typical 13 episode season.

To be fair to netflix, if they're going to release on that sort of shedule (i.e. pretty quickly), there is some sense to label each one a discrete unit, to make it easier for people to get that it is new.

[Ramza00]

I am only the 2nd episode in Season 3 of She Ra, and the Lesbian Energy is rising (and I am not referring to Adora or Catra.)

Edit: Non Spoilers but take a break between Episode 4 and Episode 5. You should Season 3 Episode 5 and 6 as a two parter.

[Magic_Hat]

I am only the 2nd episode in Season 3 of She Ra, and the Lesbian Energy is rising (and I am not referring to Adora or Catra.)

Edit: Non Spoilers but take a break between Episode 4 and Episode 5. You should Season 3 Episode 5 and 6 as a two parter.

The original series or the reboot? Because I thought the new series was only on season 2. What ethnicity is Bo in the show you're watching?

[Ramza00]

The original series or the reboot? Because I thought the new series was only on season 2. What ethnicity is Bo in the show you're watching?

I am referring to the 2018 show, aka the Reboot.

The 2018 She Ra show had its 3rd season^{Only 6 Episodes} released on Netflix Friday August 2nd, 2019. So if you take Season 2 (6 Episodes) plus the just release Season 3 (6 Episodes) a total of 25 Episodes of She Ra the reboot has been released so far.

[Celestia]

Wow, that first episode is just so good. This show really is getting better with each season. I am super hyped to watch the rest.

[Ramza00]

Do not click my spoiler block till you seen the entirety of Season 3, all 6 episodes.

Spoiler: A Personal Bet

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I bet 10 Bow's gushing smiles that King Micah is not dead. 😏


The second bet, one I am less sure of, yet I am making it anyway I bet 10 scorpia smiles that Queen Angella is not dead and can be rescued. Entrapta said whoever stays behind will be in a separate dimension caused by the portal / wormhole. Well Angella has an immortal body. Coincidence 🤔 I think not! 😏

Then again Angella did that heroic sacrifice thing. She even said "... And now I choose to be brave."

[Deja Who?]

After this season I don’t think you can dispute the ship that is emo clone Hordak/Entrapa. Surprisingly adorable.

[Ramza00]

After this season I don’t think you can dispute the ship that is emo clone Hordak/Entrapa. Surprisingly adorable.

The person who does not understand people, and the person who hates people, shipped at last.

[Celestia]

Do not click my spoiler block till you seen the entirety of Season 3, all 6 episodes.

Spoiler: A Personal Bet

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I bet 10 Bow's gushing smiles that King Micah is not dead. 😏


The second bet, one I am less sure of, yet I am making it anyway I bet 10 scorpia smiles that Queen Angella is not dead and can be rescued. Entrapta said whoever stays behind will be in a separate dimension caused by the portal / wormhole. Well Angella has an immortal body. Coincidence 🤔 I think not! 😏

Then again Angella did that heroic sacrifice thing. She even said "... And now I choose to be brave."

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Micah is definitely alive. That was not at all subtle.
I'm betting he'som this "Beast Island" that we've heard so much about and now have a reason to visit since Entrapta has been sent there.

As for Angella, I'm 50/50 on that. On the one hand, bringing her back may well undermine the sacrifice. But on the other hand, if they wait long enough, that may not be a serious issue, especially if they still have some sort of permanent consequence to it. In addition, there's already a plausible path for them to take. It's clear that at some point, Adora is going to undo Mara's handiworkand bring Etheria backinto the universe. Since Angella is trapped between realities, undoing the Etheria pocket dimension may automatically free her.

After this season I don’t think you can dispute the ship that is emo clone Hordak/Entrapa. Surprisingly adorable.

Eeeeehhhhhhhhh...

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They seemed to be hinting heavily towards it at first, but I think the finale pretty well sinks that ship. Hordak is simply too self-serving, abusive, and toxic. Entrapta may be dense and socially stunted, but I think even she will figure out that Hordak doesn't, and never will, care for her. This is especially true since the core story beat of her character arc this season is specifically her being put on the path to realize those very flaws in herself. I think this season, in fact, does the exact opposite of your post and proclaims definitively that this ship will never sail.

It also pretty well killed Catra/Adora and Catra/Scorpia. Really, it just sank all the Catra ships and destroyed any possibly of a redemption arc for her. This was a mean season. :(

[Avaris]

We marathoned the entire thing yesterday, including seasons 1 and 2. It’s so good.

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Micah is definitely alive. That was not at all subtle.

By my understanding, this would also match canon of the original series.

Eeeeehhhhhhhhh...

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They seemed to be hinting heavily towards it at first, but I think the finale pretty well sinks that ship. Hordak is simply too self-serving, abusive, and toxic. Entrapta may be dense and socially stunted, but I think even she will figure out that Hordak doesn't, and never will, care for her. This is especially true since the core story beat of her character arc this season is specifically her being put on the path to realize those very flaws in herself. I think this season, in fact, does the exact opposite of your post and proclaims definitively that this ship will never sail.

It also pretty well killed Catra/Adora and Catra/Scorpia. Really, it just sank all the Catra ships and destroyed any possibly of a redemption arc for her. This was a mean season. :(

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Hordak/Entrapta: hard disagree that Hordak doesn’t care about her. His reaction to Catra lying about Entrapta betraying him is genuine shock and hurt; he was definitely on a path to caring about her, probably primarily as a colleague rather than anything else, but she is the first person to treat him as an equal who he can feel the same. See particularly their discussion about failures.

Whether the ship will sail is another matter. Catra is extremely manipulative, and he may well believe her about Entrapta’s betrayal, as it allows him to simply return to his old mental patterns of despising everyone around him. I can see two ways this can go; either he doubles down and continues being the villain, or he gets somewhat humanised and ends up helping face down Hordak Prime.

[Celestia]

We marathoned the entire thing yesterday, including seasons 1 and 2. It’s so good.


By my understanding, this would also match canon of the original series.

I think it's safe to completely discount the original show. There may be references here and there, but it's clearly not a major influence.

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Hordak/Entrapta: hard disagree that Hordak doesn’t care about her. His reaction to Catra lying about Entrapta betraying him is genuine shock and hurt; he was definitely on a path to caring about her, probably primarily as a colleague rather than anything else, but she is the first person to treat him as an equal who he can feel the same. See particularly their discussion about failures.

Whether the ship will sail is another matter. Catra is extremely manipulative, and he may well believe her about Entrapta’s betrayal, as it allows him to simply return to his old mental patterns of despising everyone around him. I can see two ways this can go; either he doubles down and continues being the villain, or he gets somewhat humanised and ends up helping face down Hordak Prime.

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I can't disagree with that first paragraph. At this point, I think I need to rewatch the season so I can pay closer attention to this, specifically, if I want to continue discussing it.

However, I do feel very confident in saying that I seriously doubt that Hordak is turning good.

[Haruspex_Pariah]

Season 3 thoughts.

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This season seemed pretty dark, all things considered.

Adora angsts about her secret origins and unwilling hero status. We finally see Mara, via a recording in which she presumably is killed. Catra decides to give the middle finger to the world, because she can't get over Shadow Weaver and Adora, after what seemed like genuine bonding with Scorpia. Angella sacrifices herself, after getting hit by an illusion in which her dead husband is alive. Hordak and Entrapta's...friendship is derailed by Catra, when she in all likelihood knew Shadow Weaver was the breach that got the Princesses in. Finally we get confirmation about the super huge evil army that now knows about the world.

Out of all that, Catra's slide into villainy hits me the most. Yeah, she was a thug and a bully to the Crimson Waste denizens, but as Scorpia noted she actually seemed happy there. Simply hearing that Shadow Weaver went to see Adora was enough for her to lose her marbles, including tasering Entrapta and sending her to Beast Island.

Catra has genuine grievances against Shadow Weaver. Adora, is debatable. But spacetime and the world? That's pushing it.

[Celestia]

Season 3 thoughts.

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This season seemed pretty dark, all things considered.

Adora angsts about her secret origins and unwilling hero status. We finally see Mara, via a recording in which she presumably is killed. Catra decides to give the middle finger to the world, because she can't get over Shadow Weaver and Adora, after what seemed like genuine bonding with Scorpia. Angella sacrifices herself, after getting hit by an illusion in which her dead husband is alive. Hordak and Entrapta's...friendship is derailed by Catra, when she in all likelihood knew Shadow Weaver was the breach that got the Princesses in. Finally we get confirmation about the super huge evil army that now knows about the world.

Out of all that, Catra's slide into villainy hits me the most. Yeah, she was a thug and a bully to the Crimson Waste denizens, but as Scorpia noted she actually seemed happy there. Simply hearing that Shadow Weaver went to see Adora was enough for her to lose her marbles, including tasering Entrapta and sending her to Beast Island.

Catra has genuine grievances against Shadow Weaver. Adora, is debatable. But spacetime and the world? That's pushing it.

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If by "in all likelihood," you mean "Adora explicitly telling her," then sure. The reason she told Hordak it was Entrapta was to cover her own ass after her emotions got the better of her, and she tased and banished Hordak's favorite minion.

[Haruspex_Pariah]

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If by "in all likelihood," you mean "Adora explicitly telling her," then sure. The reason she told Hordak it was Entrapta was to cover her own ass after her emotions got the better of her, and she tased and banished Hordak's favorite minion.

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I binged the entire season in the space of a day, so I may have missed a few details.

Also, yeah, that makes sense. It happened after the portal disaster was averted (reversed?), so she needed to get back in Hordak's good graces.

I guess I just feel bad about Hordak and Entrapta almost becoming friends. More for Entrapta than Hordak, mind you.

[Avaris]

I think it's safe to completely discount the original show. There may be references here and there, but it's clearly not a major influence.

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I can't disagree with that first paragraph. At this point, I think I need to rewatch the season so I can pay closer attention to this, specifically, if I want to continue discussing it.

However, I do feel very confident in saying that I seriously doubt that Hordak is turning good.

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Turning good, almost certainly not. Quasi redemption through teaming up to defeat larger foe, maybe.

Hypothesis: a significant recurring theme in the show is relationship to parenting, and the different ways the decisions of the older generations have affected the new. Some characters heal that relationship, others grow beyond it, others are driven to destruction by it.

Through this lense, every character is either a parent or a child. All the children have an arc adapting to the expectations placed upon them. Hordack, in this framing, is a child. So I suspect an arc explring his relationship with his ‘parent’, horde prime, is in the offing. We’ve seen the start of it with his overwhelming sense of being a ‘failure’.

[Celestia]

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I binged the entire season in the space of a day, so I may have missed a few details.

Also, yeah, that makes sense. It happened after the portal disaster was averted (reversed?), so she needed to get back in Hordak's good graces.

I guess I just feel bad about Hordak and Entrapta almost becoming friends. More for Entrapta than Hordak, mind you.

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Actually, it was before the portal when Hordak didn't want to activate it until Entrapta got there.

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Turning good, almost certainly not. Quasi redemption through teaming up to defeat larger foe, maybe.

Hypothesis: a significant recurring theme in the show is relationship to parenting, and the different ways the decisions of the older generations have affected the new. Some characters heal that relationship, others grow beyond it, others are driven to destruction by it.

Through this lense, every character is either a parent or a child. All the children have an arc adapting to the expectations placed upon them. Hordack, in this framing, is a child. So I suspect an arc explring his relationship with his ‘parent’, horde prime, is in the offing. We’ve seen the start of it with his overwhelming sense of being a ‘failure’.

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Eh, I still don't see it. He's too committed to the idea of proving himself to Horde Prime. I think the only way this story ends is for Hordak to keep pushing again and again and failing again and again until Horde Prime finally gets sick of it and just offs him, himself.

Besides, between Shadow Weaver, Entrapta, and probably Scorpia, we've already got enough redemption arcs to last the next four or five seasons. On the other hand...

Crack Prediction: This story is ultimately building up to Catra being the final big bad, and every other villain will either join the heroes to stop her or die so that Catra can climb over them. Horde Prime is a massive red herring mini boss and will ultimately get taken out by Catra who will then command the entire Horde.