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  1. - Top - End - #91
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    Default Re: So there's a new season of She-Ra...

    Entrapta wasn't even aware Adora was made of flesh and blood. In White Out, the episode that's kinda forcing this conversation, she explectly states "Oh, Adora's made of meat" or something along those lines. She didn't realize that she was just A Person, due to the way she interfaced with old one tech.

    Taking a sentient robot apart is still horrifying an act, but not nearly as bad as taking apart a human. Entrapta was raised by robot parents she very clearly built herself, we can assume she just doesn't really GET that people aren't...put-back-together-able.
    Last edited by LaZodiac; 2019-05-15 at 09:29 PM.


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  2. - Top - End - #92
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    Default Re: So there's a new season of She-Ra...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ramza00 View Post
    D&D alingment has rules of analysis of what is good, evil, neutral. But there are also moral analysis tools to judge good, evil, neutral.

    For example consequentialism is different than Kantian duty based ethics, which is different than Aristotle virtue based ethics.

    How do you judge things is it the intention or the impact? Is it the agent and his moral framework his intentions or his character or is it the act itself and then if it's the act is it the consequences to others or the characteristics of the act?

    This stuff is complicated and real life humans use words good and evil or good and bad in context to a situation that has a lot to say. Sometimes we see intent matters more other times the impact matters more.

    D&D craved a much simpler analysis system so the D&D simplistic system was developed. Does not matter that moral philosphers and theologians have been arguing what is good or evil since recorded history with writing.
    Yes indeed, a straightforward conventional analysis of morality would not produce a result of "chaotic neutral" or "true neutral" and, if your Kant or Plato, you might use the words "lawful" and "good" interchangeably. Moreover, you'll find that old philosophers define "law" and "lawful" in a way most would find downright weird; its supposed to be derivable from natural laws or "pure thought."

    D&D is an artificial (I'm not sure about simple) system of morality imposed on their universes as a way of dividing up living things, and some nonliving things, into nine boxes. It literally a set of rules for determining whose on which of nine "teams." These rules use a lot of vague and outright ambiguous language that leads to some contradictory statements. For example, Ember is lawful because of her "discipline," Mialee is neutral because of her "art." In the way those words were just used...they are synonyms! There are lots of Chaotic characters that adhere stringently to a some sort of code, and a lot of Lawful characters that believe their authority allows them to break rules, make exceptions, and pick and choose which rules are important.

    I'm saying Entrapta is neutral because she resembles a lot of neutral characters I've seen. She straddles the sides, she does her own thing, and her motives don't seem to be the sort of motives the evil characters have. Also most of what she does is tinker with technology, that is not inherently a good or an evil activity.

    As to whether I would label a real life Entrapta as evil if I met her and saw her do the stuff she says she is willing to do in the series in situations where the natural consequences of her actions actually happen to real people is largely irrelevant. The potentially catastrophic consequences of her proposed actions never transpire, and can't happen without changing the nature of the show. Moreover, I'm not judging her by my own moral standards, I'm judging her by the standards I think a professional D&D editor would judge her by if she was submitted as a character for an adventure module or other D&D product.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lacuna Caster View Post
    Yes, I can understand the perspective that Neutral characters can support an altruistic cause for selfish reasons and not really tip their karmic balance in the process (though even that has it's nuances.) But indifference to harmful side-effects is not the same thing as indifference to beneficial side-effects. They're not symmetric, and you don't just multiply Evil by minus one to get Good.
    .
    Except D&D treats evil as symmetric. Specifically, many neutral characters as symmetrically indifferent to both extremes of good and evil. It is quite explicit that neutral types are those that do not strongly favor good or evil. However, sometimes neutral characters are said to have "good tendencies," but others have "evil tendencies." There are even places in the Outlands (the neutral outer plane) for neutrals that lean towards any of the nine alignments (the Outlands is the only place with a gateway to every one of the nine planes). The very structure of the D&D universe is such that the nine alignments are in a sort of equal balance.

    There are a lot of candidates for neutral types: those who care (only) about friends and family, their own territory, their own species, plain indifferent types, animals that act only on basic drives, explicitly types that care mainly about the acquisition of knowledge, druids and rangers that care only about nature, bards that just care about storytelling, and even crazy philosophical types that believe consciously balancing the good/evil and/or law/chaos.

    Entrapta fits squarely in with the group.
    Quote Originally Posted by Morty View Post
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  3. - Top - End - #93
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    Default Re: So there's a new season of She-Ra...

    Quote Originally Posted by Lacuna Caster View Post
    Because I don't understand how these points are pertinent. Once you acknowledge that trying to vivisect a person is a horrible thing to do regardless of motive, I think it reasonably follows that trying to vivisect an entire planet (which contains many persons) is at least as nasty.
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  4. - Top - End - #94
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    Default Re: So there's a new season of She-Ra...

    At first I thought that Hordak’s “strangle field” was a really weird way to get around showing him doing it with his own hands. But then I remembered the scene with him having his suit put on. Maybe he physically can’t do it with his own hands.
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    Default Re: So there's a new season of She-Ra...

    Quote Originally Posted by Haruspex_Pariah View Post
    At first I thought that Hordak’s “strangle field” was a really weird way to get around showing him doing it with his own hands. But then I remembered the scene with him having his suit put on. Maybe he physically can’t do it with his own hands.
    Yes, but also no. The strangle field is just him thinning the atmosphere, which he can survive in quite easily since he's a robot skeleton man. Not so much anyone else.


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  6. - Top - End - #96
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    Default Re: So there's a new season of She-Ra...

    Quote Originally Posted by LaZodiac View Post
    Yes, but also no. The strangle field is just him thinning the atmosphere, which he can survive in quite easily since he's a robot skeleton man. Not so much anyone else.
    There are also implications that Etheria's atmosphere is harmful to him, which is why he has that atmosphere thinning machine, and why he's so wasted away.

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    Default Re: So there's a new season of She-Ra...

    Quote Originally Posted by Reddish Mage View Post

    Except D&D treats evil as symmetric. Specifically, many neutral characters as symmetrically indifferent to both extremes of good and evil. It is quite explicit that neutral types are those that do not strongly favor good or evil.
    It also says that most neutral characters would prefer Good neighbours to Evil neighbours.
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    Default Re: So there's a new season of She-Ra...

    Quote Originally Posted by Resileaf View Post
    There are also implications that Etheria's atmosphere is harmful to him, which is why he has that atmosphere thinning machine, and why he's so wasted away.
    Yeah, my thoughts were somewhere among these lines, though the show to my knowledge doesn't make this explicit.

    From the way he talks, I sort of assumed he was an alien and perhaps wasn't well suited to Etheria's natural environment. Although we don't know if the different planets in the series have similar humanoid species across them.

    On an unrelated note, I was pretty glad to see Bow's family. While we knew the broad strokes about the various princesses and main characters, we really didn't know all too much about his history up to that point (and neither did Glimmer!).
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  9. - Top - End - #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by hamishspence View Post
    It also says that most neutral characters would prefer Good neighbours to Evil neighbours.
    Neutral tends to be described as "I would rather not involve myself in this". The average peasant may think "I like that my king is a good dude", but he's not going to fight for his king's interests because he's focused on his own life. He's got his own problems to handle.
    Last edited by Resileaf; 2019-05-17 at 09:54 AM.

  10. - Top - End - #100
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    Default Re: So there's a new season of She-Ra...

    Quote Originally Posted by hamishspence View Post
    It also says that most neutral characters would prefer Good neighbours to Evil neighbours.
    I got most of my data on the alignment tendencies in D&D supplements from you. My understanding is that most neutrals are either friendly with good types, or background figures, but there are enough that are aligned with the villains or occasionally take on the role as villains themselves.

    The idea neutral characters prefer Good neighbors sounds rather intuitive. If you don't especially care about morality, you still want neighbors who have no qualms about stealing, killing, ensalving, kidnapping? Who are the types to start trouble of the foulest variety? It can be read as a notion that "neutral prefers good" but I think there's clearly enough out there that suggests instead that "neutral occupies the middle ground." Heck, maybe even evil characters should prefer good (or at least neutral) neighbors, but D&D has a history of indicating that people that share an alignment are a "team."

    Also, in Entrapta's case, she has very specific reasons for preferring her evil neighbors. The Horde's attempt at making her their prisoner and forcing her to aid them was literally laughable. If the Horde was a bit more component or less forgiving about her tendency to completely ignore protocols she would be far less inclined to work with them.

    The latter, by the way, is another indicator for why she's Chaotic as well as Neutral.
    Quote Originally Posted by Morty View Post
    It would have been awesome if the writers had put as much thought into it as you guys do.
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    Default Re: So there's a new season of She-Ra...

    So, I have a theory. It's a little one, but it helps me sleep at night.

    The upper classes of Etheria don't use their True Names. They have use-names, based on their personalities and skills, but don't use their true names. Thus, the dude with the bow is called Bow. The chick who tosses nets is Netossa. Adept at spellcasting? You get the name Castaspella.
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  12. - Top - End - #102
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    Default Re: So there's a new season of She-Ra...

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Hall View Post
    So, I have a theory. It's a little one, but it helps me sleep at night.

    The upper classes of Etheria don't use their True Names. They have use-names, based on their personalities and skills, but don't use their true names. Thus, the dude with the bow is called Bow. The chick who tosses nets is Netossa. Adept at spellcasting? You get the name Castaspella.
    His parents call him Bow so that's straight out. Given he had to teach himself archery due to his pacifist parents, and a lot of the potential trans coding Bow's got, he probably picked the name himself though, so you're not WRONG, at least with regards to him.

    Everyone else, at least on the good guy side, is a Princess who is directly tied to a magical crystal that does things, or in the case of Castaspella part of a sect of wizard's who live in wizard country. The name's make sense, for their world, and it's startling and weird but it works all the same.


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  13. - Top - End - #103
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    Default Re: So there's a new season of She-Ra...

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Hall View Post
    So, I have a theory. It's a little one, but it helps me sleep at night.

    The upper classes of Etheria don't use their True Names. They have use-names, based on their personalities and skills, but don't use their true names. Thus, the dude with the bow is called Bow. The chick who tosses nets is Netossa. Adept at spellcasting? You get the name Castaspella.
    Counter proposal - naming works exactly in the same way as in does in My Little Pony, where some mystical some-or-other must subonsciously make people pick those names and are suppressed from realising it. (There's probably some great oracle somewhere who can predict byour destiny, which is a bit of a scam, since for all her (it has to be a her, right, keeping in theme) doesn't have prognostic powers, she just has a genre-savvy exception and just tells them their destiny based on their names... (Actually, that's a pony fanfic, too, isn't it...))

    OR by strange collective lingusitic co-incidence, neither ponies nor Etherian speak English, but it just so happens that their names sound exactly or very similar to particularly English words.

    OR those are not their actual names, but their actual names are unprouncable (in the former) and hard to pronounce (in the latter), so the translators substituted all the names up for readability, like Tolkien did for the Hobbits and such.
    Last edited by Aotrs Commander; 2019-05-18 at 04:29 AM.

  14. - Top - End - #104
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    Default Re: So there's a new season of She-Ra...

    Quote Originally Posted by LaZodiac View Post
    His parents call him Bow so that's straight out. Given he had to teach himself archery due to his pacifist parents, and a lot of the potential trans coding Bow's got, he probably picked the name himself though, so you're not WRONG, at least with regards to him.
    His parents calling him by the use-name does not negate the theory. Depending on the social/religious/magical function of the true name, use-names may be common to be used everywhere.
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    Default Re: So there's a new season of She-Ra...

    The problem with Bow’s name as a use-name is unique to Bow. Bow was meant to be a scholar but taught himself archery, something his parents’ loathe. The name makes no sense for a scholar, so his parents even knowing Bow is called “Bow” is an obvious flag they should have noticed.

    It also doesn’t work for a birth-name if such names are intentionally meant to be predictive.

    Sure come up with any theory you want on the names, but the evidence is there is no in-universe reason everyone has names that describe them.

    Also, I don’t quite see the transcoding for Bow...wait. There’s also talk that he glows (at least his heart) in the season one finale like the princesses, and Seahawk doesn’t, so ergo is a princess himself.

    However, since even his parents have no clue Bow is a princess (they accept him for who he is but failed to mention that?) I have a feeling the glowing heart is something else.
    Quote Originally Posted by Morty View Post
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    Default Re: So there's a new season of She-Ra...

    Wait, that's the rationale behind the "Bow is trans" theory? He happens to wear a top in the steam baths?
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    Default Re: So there's a new season of She-Ra...

    Quote Originally Posted by Silfir View Post
    Wait, that's the rationale behind the "Bow is trans" theory? He happens to wear a top in the steam baths?
    apparently?

    first I've heard of this, don't feel much about it. mostly because I'm not sure whether one is saying that he was once a girl but now a guy, or is a currently a guy transitioning into being a girl. with him I can see it going either way, and it wouldn't surprise me if they kept it ambiguous to represent both in a Vaarsuvius move.
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    Default Re: So there's a new season of She-Ra...

    What room for ambiguity is there? There is no indication that he ever was something other than male, or wants to be something else.

    A far less convoluted explanation for him wearing a top in the baths is that he's conforming to Mystacor's standards for modesty, which unlike our real world's don't make a hypocritical distinction between exposing male and female tops.

    I mean, if indeed he is post-transition FtM, whatever magic they've got on Etheria clearly pulled it off very well and I'm glad for him.
    Last edited by Silfir; 2019-05-18 at 01:14 PM.
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  19. - Top - End - #109
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    Default Re: So there's a new season of She-Ra...

    Quote Originally Posted by Silfir View Post
    Wait, that's the rationale behind the "Bow is trans" theory? He happens to wear a top in the steam baths?
    It's more than just that of course, but I can't find the masterpost of it. I know the fact that "Reunion" is really heavily coded as a gay/trans coming out story really helps it.

    Some other things to note: changing his name to Bow after transition would fit since it relates to a special interest of his, which isn't rare with trans people. His parents would respect it because they're good people, obviously. The little hideaway hole he hanged out in as a kid playing make-believe is very girl-looking, for lack of a better term. The binding/top he wears in Mysticor is also very odd, since we have no real proof that that's the "standard" at Mysticor and Etheria's, much like Earth, has a pretty open relationship with shirtless men. During one episode, I believe where we meet Entrapta, he also gets dramatic action lines in the colour of the trans-pride flag. We've precedence for this mattering since at the Princess Brawl there are two girl princesses together and one is wearing the lesbian-pride flag colours.

    Also ****ing LOOK at that thing he's wearing in Mysticor, even. That looks uncomfortable as HELL, he is absolutely wearing it For A Reason, because no one would wear that just because.

    Also also, just as a sort of Thing; the main show-runner has made it explicit over twitter that cishet is not the default in the show. Never assume someone is that unless explicitly shown.
    Last edited by LaZodiac; 2019-05-18 at 01:26 PM.


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    Default Re: So there's a new season of She-Ra...

    Quote Originally Posted by Silfir View Post
    Wait, that's the rationale behind the "Bow is trans" theory? He happens to wear a top in the steam baths?
    Coding is not a style of empirical thing that is a "rigorous and replicable" like empirical-science. It is more of a language / art thing. It is something done by observation alone (that is what empirical means) and it needs not be consistent.

    Put another way sub-text has an infinite kaleidoscope of possibilities until there is a quantum collapse and the sub-text is made directly into text by the author(s).

    Bow is Trans is a theory, whether it is true or not doesn't matter. Remember in fiction we have things that are true for they are made flat out text, but lot of storytelling is beyond this truth and is part of the truth of the story that is not explained. Coding is a narrative shorthand much like I do not know the life history of the dozens of people I interact with in real life, I instead interact with these people with only surface knowledge of them.

    Getting frustrated by this fan theory specifically is a silly thing considering how many shipping and other fan speculations there are.
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    Default Re: So there's a new season of She-Ra...

    I'm sure it has absolutely nothing to do with any even theorhetical fall out from countries that might have have idiots taking offense at the possibilty of even male nipples being on display in a children's program.

    ...

    At this point, I'm honestly not sure whether that's me making a facetious straw-man and taking a shot at censorship or whether that is an actual thing that could happen, but I would swear that I have read something about the latter being held in some cultures. (No, I'm not going to go looking, I don't feel like depressing myself today.)



    Either that or the reasons for the names and that are tied together and the reality is She-Ra doesn't actually have ANY humans in it, it's just been human-washed from its original elenthnar (because for most elenthnar cultures, exposure of the biolumenescent sexual-signally chest-organs that both males and females have is traditionally not suitable for polite society...) Yeah, that sounds about right. Typical human cultural approbation...




    Finally, I sort of feel compelled to ask if there is any particularly reason Bow can't be a boy (regardless of sexuality) that just happens to be maybe a bit camp and likes putting hearts and stuff on his stuff (like his dear ol' dad)?

    I mean, even if he wanted to put on a pretty dress because he liked putting pretty dresses on1, that wouldn't follow he necessarily wanted to be a girl or was gay or owt, would it?

    Edit: Since Zodi posted while I was rambling at length as per usual:

    Quote Originally Posted by LaZodiac View Post
    Also also, just as a sort of Thing; the main show-runner has made it explicit over twitter that cishet is not the default in the show. Never assume someone is that unless explicitly shown.
    Well, okay, fair enough, that is a particular reason. Well, that's told me, 'a'nt it?

    I'll go and be quiet now.



    1VERY important distinction to make between "chap wants to wear a dress and/or feel pretty and/or still be a bloke if you follow my meaning" because that's what they want and are comfortable with and "bloke unconvincingly put in a dress because funny, see also pantomime dames; e.g. putting me in a dress, which would be funny (very, very BRIEFLY, before the ensuing murder) because Bleakbane Doesn't Want To Wear A Dress ahaha, or putting Applejack or Rainbow Dash in a particularly frilly dress because they don't want to wear one of those. Context is very, very important.)
    Last edited by Aotrs Commander; 2019-05-18 at 01:47 PM.

  22. - Top - End - #112
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    Default Re: So there's a new season of She-Ra...

    Quote Originally Posted by Aotrs Commander View Post
    I'm sure it has absolutely nothing to do with any even theorhetical fall out from countries that might have have idiots taking offense at the possibilty of even male nipples being on display in a children's program.

    ...

    At this point, I'm honestly not sure whether that's me making a facetious straw-man and taking a shot at censorship or whether that is an actual thing that could happen, but I would swear that I have read something about the latter being held in some cultures. (No, I'm not going to go looking, I don't feel like depressing myself today.)



    Either that or the reasons for the names and that are tied together and the reality is She-Ra doesn't actually have ANY humans in it, it's just been human-washed from its original elenthnar (because for most elenthnar cultures, exposure of the biolumenescent sexual-signally chest-organs that both males and females have is traditionally not suitable for polite society...) Yeah, that sounds about right. Typical human cultural approbation...




    Finally, I sort of feel compelled to ask if there is any particularly reason Bow can't be a boy (regardless of sexuality) that just happens to be maybe a bit camp and likes putting hearts and stuff on his stuff (like his dear ol' dad)?

    I mean, even if he wanted to put on a pretty dress because he liked putting pretty dresses on1, that wouldn't follow he necessarily wanted to be a girl or was gay or owt, would it?

    Well, okay, fair enough, that is a particular reason. Well, that's told me, 'a'nt it?

    I'll go and be quiet now.
    I mean don't be like that, I wasn't trying to shout anyone down. Just presenting the evidence we have for it, though yes like Ramza in a roundabout way is saying, it is all subtext at this moment in time.

    As for "why can't he just be a boy who likes girly things?", I can say that... I mean yeah, that's true. We need more of that in media as well, you're not wrong. But ultimately "why are you the way you are?" is a weird question to have. There's no real structural reason why he's trans because there are some things that people just are and that's okay.


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    Default Re: So there's a new season of She-Ra...

    Quote Originally Posted by LaZodiac View Post
    I mean don't be like that, I wasn't trying to shout anyone down. Just presenting the evidence we have for it, though yes like Ramza in a roundabout way is saying, it is all subtext at this moment in time.
    That wasn't a shot at you (I mean, why would I?) - especially since you were just reporting stuff and not in response to something I had even said yet - that was me doin' my typical faux-self-deprecation.



    I mean, you know there's not ACTUALLY a way to get me to, like, shut up about stuff if I'm really bothered about it, right? (Just ask ponyhread...) With MY ego?

    Come on, we all know deep down that I'm objectively right in my merest whim and that when everyone else in the entire universe up to and including the physical laws of the universe says somethign flatly contraditory, that just shows how wrong the everything is. If I say two plus two is five, it is the universe being at fault it doesn't immediately retroactively re-order the laws of physics to my command, isn't it?


    Quote Originally Posted by LaZodiac
    As for "why can't he just be a boy who likes girly things?", I can say that... I mean yeah, that's true. We need more of that in media as well, you're not wrong. But ultimately "why are you the way you are?" is a weird question to have. There's no real structural reason why he's trans because there are some things that people just are and that's okay.
    Yeah!

    Some people unfortunately get their souls in the wrong body or whatever (sex/gender or species, even...), some people are just good people because they are and some people (granted, pushing definition of "people") are Evil Liches whose existance is the purpose of the universe just because they are.
    Last edited by Aotrs Commander; 2019-05-18 at 02:31 PM.

  24. - Top - End - #114
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    Default Re: So there's a new season of She-Ra...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ramza00 View Post
    Put another way sub-text has an infinite kaleidoscope of possibilities until there is a quantum collapse and the sub-text is made directly into text by the author(s).
    I mean, I can appreciate that notion. All fan theories can certainly be true until they're proven not to be.

    I hope you can appreciate that it isn't possible for a single person to take all fan theories equally seriously. There can be disagreements in opinion over the subtext - it's all valid, but it's not all equally valid. Otherwise, what's the purpose of discussing a show at all?

    Quote Originally Posted by LaZodiac
    The little hideaway hole he hanged out in as a kid playing make-believe is very girl-looking, for lack of a better term.
    Well that says a fat load of bugger all. Boys enjoy "girly" things all the time. Doesn't make them one iota less boys. It does, of course, remind us that labeling a particular interest a "girly" interest is problematic to begin with.

    EDIT: Just now realized Aotrs covered that one. Don't mind me.
    Last edited by Silfir; 2019-05-18 at 02:39 PM.
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  25. - Top - End - #115
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    Default Re: So there's a new season of She-Ra...

    Quote Originally Posted by Silfir View Post
    It does, of course, remind us that labeling a particular interest a "girly" interest is problematic to begin with.
    To be uncharacteristically serious for a moment, I think the inherent concept of entertainment/toys (et al) "for boys" and "for girls" needs to go and die screaming in a fire. Ideally along with all the marketing types that deliberately encourage segregation like it.

    For that matter, that should extend to "for [insert sexual orientation/category/whatever the hell you want to label it]."



    I MAYBE might give a pass on that if anything actually is ever done, like, for ME (since funny how I never get catered specifically for...)

  26. - Top - End - #116
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    Default Re: So there's a new season of She-Ra...

    Ultimately what matters is that Bow kicks ass and that his part of the DND inspired episode was the best since it was all the characters in their old costumes and the first thing I thought after finishing season 1 is "I violently want to see what they look like in their old series costumes, just for curiosities sake" and the fact that they delivered on that was beautiful.


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  27. - Top - End - #117
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    Default Re: So there's a new season of She-Ra...

    I think there is a distinction here. Bow liking girly things at some point in life is not specific evidence he is trans. Bow taking action amid trans-pride colors, putting on clothing that looks like something a FtM would wear, or being the central character in an episode that contains specific elements of a trans-coming out story (I thought it was a gay-coming out or a gender-queer coming out story) are all very specific evidence that Bow is FtM.

    Bow is not pre-transition MtF. There’s no indication that Bow is uncomfortable with his gender-identity, or he wishes to change another aspect of his identity now. He’s definitely a he, even if he likes or liked some girly looking things.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaZodiac View Post
    It's more than just that of course, but I can't find the masterpost of it. I know the fact that "Reunion" is really heavily coded as a gay/trans coming out story really helps it.

    Also also, just as a sort of Thing; the main show-runner has made it explicit over twitter that cishet is not the default in the show. Never assume someone is that unless explicitly shown.
    Reunion could mean Bow is trans, or gay, or it could just be used as a way of drawing a parallel of his situation to that of his parents, who are gay. Finally, it could just be a message to the audience, who knows its a coming out story, even if there is no in-universe equivalent to “coming out LGBTQ.”

    The fact Bow wears feminine colors and apparel carries meaning in our culture. This could be a statement about Bow being some form of gender-queer (or it could be a culturally subversive act by the authors or simply an attempt to honor the original). I’m not sure what the reason was for the design either.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ramza00 View Post
    Bow is Trans is a theory, whether it is true or not doesn't matter...

    Getting frustrated by this fan theory specifically is a silly thing considering how many shipping and other fan speculations there are.
    Bow being trans is not merely a fan theory if they are using codes. Codes have a meaning, its just only known by a subset of the audience. When fans say Bow is being coded-trans or gay they are saying the authors are very purposely using imagery to let us know a certain message.

    Some codes are more obvious than others. It’s quite clear what it means when Captain Marvel changes from Kree colors to red blue and gold. It’s not subtle why they introduced Thanos by having him be told “to fight the Avengers is to court death.” However, in the latter case we didn’t know whether it was meant to be a symbolic reference to the comics or to foreshadow that the literal personification of death was going to show up.

    This is not a case when fans are simply speculating on something that the narrative might tangentially support, nor is it the product of some deep literary analysis. We are dealing with themes that the authors planted and also are telling us they are planting in the show. These are substantial elements of the show we are talking about.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaZodiac View Post
    As for "why can't he just be a boy who likes girly things?", I can say that... I mean yeah, that's true. We need more of that in media as well, you're not wrong. But ultimately "why are you the way you are?" is a weird question to have. There's no real structural reason why he's trans because there are some things that people just are and that's okay.
    I’m understanding you to say that Bow could just be a cishet that likes some girly things...but we are being given many signals he is something else, and that’s the point.
    Quote Originally Posted by Morty View Post
    It would have been awesome if the writers had put as much thought into it as you guys do.
    The laws of physics are not crying in a corner, they are bawling in the forums.

    Thanks to half-halfling for the avatar

  28. - Top - End - #118
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    Default Re: So there's a new season of She-Ra...

    Quote Originally Posted by LaZodiac View Post
    Ultimately what matters is that Bow kicks ass and that his part of the DND inspired episode was the best since it was all the characters in their old costumes and the first thing I thought after finishing season 1 is "I violently want to see what they look like in their old series costumes, just for curiosities sake" and the fact that they delivered on that was beautiful.
    Best part of the season, especially that they had the old music as well AND as the ending theme.

    I desprately NEED them to release both of those so I can properly listen to them.

  29. - Top - End - #119
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    Default Re: So there's a new season of She-Ra...

    Quote Originally Posted by Reddish Mage View Post
    I’m understanding you to say that Bow could just be a cishet that likes some girly things...but we are being given many signals he is something else, and that’s the point.
    Yeah, that's what I'm saying. I'm fairly confident Bow is FtM personally, but regardless of what he is he's cool and great. I don't think he's necessarily gay since, you know, the kid of two gay parents shouldn't in any real way be concerned about that sort of thing, and the "I'm actually a fighter (obstensibly masculine thing, stereotypically) instead of an archeologist (not really gendered, but you can read into it)" carries a very trans-coded nature for me, more than just an alternative sexuality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aotrs Commander View Post
    Best part of the season, especially that they had the old music as well AND as the ending theme.

    I desprately NEED them to release both of those so I can properly listen to them.
    Same. It's so good!


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  30. - Top - End - #120
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    Default Re: So there's a new season of She-Ra...

    Quote Originally Posted by LaZodiac View Post
    Yeah, that's what I'm saying. I'm fairly confident Bow is FtM personally, but regardless of what he is he's cool and great. I don't think he's necessarily gay since, you know, the kid of two gay parents shouldn't in any real way be concerned about that sort of thing, and the "I'm actually a fighter (obstensibly masculine thing, stereotypically) instead of an archeologist (not really gendered, but you can read into it)" carries a very trans-coded nature for me, more than just an alternative sexuality.
    I think being an archeologist is stereotypically about as male as being a fighter, despite the fact I personally had a female archeologist professor. I think my teacher mentioned being in the minority, also every book I have on the subject is written by a man. Moreover, talk about him being a "scholar" rather than specifically an archeologist. Of course, and historically, scholarship was more male-dominated than fighting.

    The problem is gender-coding for professions doesn't work in Etheria, because being a warrior explicitly means engaging an activity dominated by "princesses." This was the specific reason one of the parents really hated warriors, as it would mean working very closely with princesses. Princesses are warriors but are, of course, female and very feminine. My feel is that Bow is being feminized, rather than masculinized, by the choosing to be a warrior for the Alliance in this world.

    I think coming out about this profession can be read as a code for any LGBTQ-thing as mentioned before. I don't see anything about gender or sexuality, but good try by looking at the professions Bow is stuck between.

    Anyway, I'm going to go rewatch the D&D episode now. Poor tiny Bow.
    Quote Originally Posted by Morty View Post
    It would have been awesome if the writers had put as much thought into it as you guys do.
    The laws of physics are not crying in a corner, they are bawling in the forums.

    Thanks to half-halfling for the avatar

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