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  1. - Top - End - #211
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    Default Re: Sonic the Hedgehog, the Movie

    Quote Originally Posted by Kitten Champion View Post
    In retrospect, they're in somewhat the same situation as Godzilla (1998). There are dumber and technically worse Godzilla movies than what Emmerich/Devlin gave us, but when they reinterpret the feature kaiju into merely being an oversized lizard which very loosely fits a similar role as its namesake it becomes clear how ignoring iconography - outside of sparse shallow references - can create a whole different experience.
    My recollection is fuzzy at this point, but my recollection is that most complaints were focused on the protagonists being unsympathetic doofuses and that Godzilla's behaviour was unrecognisably divergent from the source material (i.e, behaving like an actual animal with an instinct for self-preservation.) I don't see any compelling reason for why the visual design of the creature needs to be shackled to the constraints imposed by a guy in a rubber suit.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lacuna Caster View Post
    My recollection is fuzzy at this point, but my recollection is that most complaints were focused on the protagonists being unsympathetic doofuses and that Godzilla's behaviour was unrecognisably divergent from the source material (i.e, behaving like an actual animal with an instinct for self-preservation.) I don't see any compelling reason for why the visual design of the creature needs to be shackled to the constraints imposed by a guy in a rubber suit.
    On the other hand, if you're going to unrecognisably change the visual design of the central feature of your licensed property, why did you license that property in the first place?

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    Default Re: Sonic the Hedgehog, the Movie

    Quote Originally Posted by GloatingSwine View Post
    On the other hand, if you're going to unrecognisably change the visual design of the central feature of your licensed property, why did you license that property in the first place?
    Because more people will pay to see a movie labeled "Godzilla" than "Generic Death Lizard".
    That's all I can think of, at any rate.

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  4. - Top - End - #214
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    Default Re: Sonic the Hedgehog, the Movie

    Quote Originally Posted by GloatingSwine View Post
    On the other hand, if you're going to unrecognisably change the visual design of the central feature of your licensed property, why did you license that property in the first place?
    See this is the thing, Godzilla over its history has been written in various ways with a variety of plots and diverse line-up of human characters attached to them, much of which were terrible. However, stringing the meta-franchise into something coherent was that Godzilla always appeared recognizably as Godzilla. It's literally what makes Godzilla Godzilla, not any specific characterization.

  5. - Top - End - #215
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    Default Re: Sonic the Hedgehog, the Movie

    Quote Originally Posted by Lacuna Caster View Post
    My recollection is fuzzy at this point, but my recollection is that most complaints were focused on the protagonists being unsympathetic doofuses and that Godzilla's behaviour was unrecognisably divergent from the source material (i.e, behaving like an actual animal with an instinct for self-preservation.) I don't see any compelling reason for why the visual design of the creature needs to be shackled to the constraints imposed by a guy in a rubber suit.
    A frightened kaiju running through a city is a decent enough one off concept, it works fine in Cloverfield. But Godzilla is expected to roam around smashing buildings, the military or other monsters. That's basically his sole unifying characterization. Worth noting that the 1998 animated spinoff series was reasonably popular in Japan, and it's major change from the movie is the giant raptor goes around fighting stuff rather than fleeing or chasing taxis.

  6. - Top - End - #216
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    Default Re: Sonic the Hedgehog, the Movie

    Quote Originally Posted by Legato Endless View Post
    But Godzilla is expected to roam around smashing buildings
    With a purposeful grimace and a terrible sound?
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  7. - Top - End - #217
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    Default Re: Sonic the Hedgehog, the Movie

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    With a purposeful grimace and a terrible sound?
    No, no, those are what he uses on high tension wires.
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    Default Re: Sonic the Hedgehog, the Movie

    Chill chill guys, the movie has been pushed back to 2020 February 14, long live Sonic the Hedgehog and his magnificent fan base!

    Source: Sonic's release date delayed / new one confirmed

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    Default Re: Sonic the Hedgehog, the Movie

    Great, so now we have to speculate about it for a few extra months. Can't wait for the inevitable script leak that everyone argues about right up to opening night.

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    Default Re: Sonic the Hedgehog, the Movie

    Quote Originally Posted by Zevox View Post
    "It's never happened" is an exaggeration. You can pick out a few good Sonic games and shows without too much trouble. It's just a depressingly small percentage of the overall franchise for such a big name among the video game industry.
    Does Mario or Zelda have a better history when it comes to shows and other media?

    Actually, Iím surprised on Sonic because you said ďa few good shows.Ē Which ones?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rakaydos View Post
    Honestly, I think Sonic 06 could be remade starring Shadow and have it turn out decent. Just make Elise a relative of Maria and it's all justified.
    Its wacky esoteric anime-plot aside, the gameplay isnít all that engaging. Its very hard gameplay that you have to repeat the same levels over and over.

    Sonic has on several occasions veered into highly unorthodox storylines. It worked for the first few games before they got too complex (if you think about it, Knuckles, chaos emeralds, and Super Sonic are all off the wall additions).

    I think the problem is that these storylines arenít the best developed. Sonic 06í of course canít because its a video game and thereís just not enough oxygen to do what they do with the plot. Some other media, Iím not sure they were trying all that hard rather than just throwing stuff around.
    Quote Originally Posted by Morty View Post
    It would have been awesome if the writers had put as much thought into it as you guys do.
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    Default Re: Sonic the Hedgehog, the Movie

    Quote Originally Posted by Reddish Mage View Post
    Does Mario or Zelda have a better history when it comes to shows and other media?

    Actually, Iím surprised on Sonic because you said ďa few good shows.Ē Which ones?
    Games and shows, not just shows.

    As for Mario and Zelda, the Super Mario Brothers Super Show was fantastic (and got super bonus points for Captain Lou), the movie should have been fantastic given that it starred Bob Hoskins and John Leguizamo, and the Zelda comic in Nintendo Power was amazing while the cartoon was terrible (but, like SMB movie, I still love it).

    Not a huge spread, but those are the ones I remember. And I never thought of this before, but overall quality aside, Nintendo damn sure knows how to cast a live-action Mario.
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    Default Re: Sonic the Hedgehog, the Movie

    Quote Originally Posted by Reddish Mage View Post
    Does Mario or Zelda have a better history when it comes to shows and other media?

    Actually, Iím surprised on Sonic because you said ďa few good shows.Ē Which ones?
    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Games and shows, not just shows.
    Precisely. Even if Sonic SatAM is the only good Sonic show, add that to the handful of good games and you have the plural. And even then I believe I've heard that one of the more recent Sonic shows was decent, though that is strictly secondhand information on my part, as I haven't watched any since the 90s (or maybe early aughts, not sure).

    Also, Mario and Zelda absolutely have a better history by a huge margin when it comes to the games, so therefore they also automatically when if you're comparing games and shows together. Even having never seen the few pieces of non-game media those series have I can confidently state that.
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    Default Re: Sonic the Hedgehog, the Movie

    Quote Originally Posted by Zevox View Post
    Also, Mario and Zelda absolutely have a better history by a huge margin when it comes to the games, so therefore they also automatically when if you're comparing games and shows together. Even having never seen the few pieces of non-game media those series have I can confidently state that.
    honestly, how has the Zelda franchise not gotten a good movie by now? its possibly the nintendo videogame I can see being a serious LOTR-style film that still has moments of levity in it or something and no one does anything with it. like, its the only nintendo thing you can do with actual actors, it has an evil villain and plot that is easy to understand yet feels epic in all the right ways, the plot almost writes itself if you know what your doing.
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    Default Re: Sonic the Hedgehog, the Movie

    All and all, Nintendo has shied away from non-gaming media for decades now, if you exclude Pokemon.

    There was supposed to be a Legend of Zelda live-action Netflix series that was reported to be coming a few years ago but never materialized, and apparently now it's going to be an animated series done by the Castlevania people apparently. While Mario is getting a movie with Illumination, which is... concerning.

    As to Sonic, I don't think any property could maintain quality with the way Sega's treated Sonic. Waaaaay~ too many games produced at too-close intervals and with this inexplicable and self-destructive desire to re-invent core game mechanics whenever possible. It creates a train of often quite shoddy products and confusion of what Sonic is as a game franchise when they don't even build on the stuff people like but just keep reinventing themselves, until they inevitably hit the nostalgia panic button and just throwback to the original.

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    Default Re: Sonic the Hedgehog, the Movie

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    honestly, how has the Zelda franchise not gotten a good movie by now? its possibly the nintendo videogame I can see being a serious LOTR-style film that still has moments of levity in it or something and no one does anything with it. like, its the only nintendo thing you can do with actual actors, it has an evil villain and plot that is easy to understand yet feels epic in all the right ways, the plot almost writes itself if you know what your doing.
    Well, movies are hard to make when the main character can't say anything more complicated than a yell or a grunt.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kitten Champion View Post
    There was supposed to be a Legend of Zelda live-action Netflix series that was reported to be coming a few years ago but never materialized, and apparently now it's going to be an animated series done by the Castlevania people apparently. While Mario is getting a movie with Illumination, which is... concerning.
    Illumination? You mean the same ones that have been doing their level best to drive their entire fanbase away with those yellow nightmares for the past 10,000 years?
    That is the most terrifying thing I've read today. By quite a margin.
    That's all I can think of, at any rate.

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    Default Re: Sonic the Hedgehog, the Movie

    Quote Originally Posted by Strigon View Post
    Illumination? You mean the same ones that have been doing their level best to drive their entire fanbase away with those yellow nightmares for the past 10,000 years?
    That is the most terrifying thing I've read today. By quite a margin.
    What's funny is that originally Sony was supposed to make the Mario movie which was something that came out in the email hack debacle, and people are acting like Mario dodged a bullet by being sent over to Illumination. Personally I'd much rather Mario be with the studio that made Into the Spider-Verse even if they've got some stinkers in their filmography than be another in Illumination's endless stream of mediocrity.

  17. - Top - End - #227
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    Default Re: Sonic the Hedgehog, the Movie

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    honestly, how has the Zelda franchise not gotten a good movie by now? its possibly the nintendo videogame I can see being a serious LOTR-style film that still has moments of levity in it or something and no one does anything with it. like, its the only nintendo thing you can do with actual actors, it has an evil villain and plot that is easy to understand yet feels epic in all the right ways, the plot almost writes itself if you know what your doing.
    I cannot for the life of me think of what sort of plot your suggesting.

    Zelda revolves around a few cliche that make for the most basic of movie plots, but beyond that itís all up in the air.

    In most games Zelda gets kidnapped (often becoming passive, sometimes send magic aid) and Link goes and rescues her while also eventually acquiring the triforce (but actually often times itís just some brief references and hinting that Zelda/Link/Ganin form the thing together).

    Linkía adventures have in common they involve a lot of artifact getting and dungeon crawling.

    Some games have a particular gimmick like time travel or boating or open world.

    None of this directly translates into epic fantasy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Morty View Post
    It would have been awesome if the writers had put as much thought into it as you guys do.
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    Default Re: Sonic the Hedgehog, the Movie

    Quote Originally Posted by Reddish Mage View Post
    I cannot for the life of me think of what sort of plot your suggesting.

    Zelda revolves around a few cliche that make for the most basic of movie plots, but beyond that itís all up in the air.

    In most games Zelda gets kidnapped (often becoming passive, sometimes send magic aid) and Link goes and rescues her while also eventually acquiring the triforce (but actually often times itís just some brief references and hinting that Zelda/Link/Ganin form the thing together).

    Linkía adventures have in common they involve a lot of artifact getting and dungeon crawling.

    Some games have a particular gimmick like time travel or boating or open world.

    None of this directly translates into epic fantasy.
    Okay.

    So you can't think of it.

    Why should I care? I'm not obligated to explain it to you. whats the point of doing so when your stance is already against my own? Sure you might say "to understand my viewpoint better" but your already being hostile to my viewpoint with that first sentence. It tells me your ready to just relentlessly criticize it because you can't imagine it yourself. Your not really open to understanding.

    explaining it to you would be leaving me vulnerable. so no. you don't get one. Your post actively disinclines me from explaining it to you in fact, because I'm not sure if its worth the pain if your going to talk like that. if you don't get it, you don't get it. some things are matter of taste.
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    Default Re: Sonic the Hedgehog, the Movie

    Quote Originally Posted by Reddish Mage View Post
    I cannot for the life of me think of what sort of plot your suggesting.

    Zelda revolves around a few cliche that make for the most basic of movie plots, but beyond that itís all up in the air.
    I mean. Everyone can have their own opinion, but Zelda was built on a textbook bildungsroman with strong fantasy trappings of ancient evils and such; and you have a unique way to show the struggles of adulthood through Link's stasis. Plus a strong female lead in Sheik. You can take it a few ways, and hopefully get away from the trappings of four mandatory elemental zones taking up the bulk of the movie, but that core emotional pathos is what would form the core of any movie franchise.

    And then you can Edge of Tomorrow as a follow up with Majora's Mask.

    But none of this is going to happen after the Super Mario Bros movie and the terrible Zelda TV show, so moot point.
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    Default Re: Sonic the Hedgehog, the Movie

    The plot is a problem, because there's no compelling reason to see out a Zelda movie over literally any other fantasy story. Given that high fantasy movies following the Hero's Adventure are already thin on the ground to begin with, it's not really a surprise that nobody has tried to do specifically Zelda.

    There's also a few other issues. An epic fantasy story suggests a seriousness to how the world is portrayed, and Hyrule just doesn't have that. The plots may be serious, but the world is always full goofball. There isn't a good collection of characters to interact with one another - Link typically travels by himself or with one helper, Zelda is trapped in a crystal (or some other inaccessible location) for most of it, and that's really it. You need other characters to be along for the ride. And finally, there's the age old problem that Link doesn't talk. He doesn't really have a personality. That means inventing something, which means pissing off a significant chunk of your audience no matter how well you do it. And of course, the Damsel In Distress trope is itself becoming an out-of-date cliche for various reasons.

    If they were going to try, I'd say a fully animated family adventure movie is the way to go about it. Make full use of the silly characters that inhabit Hyrule, and blend comedy and drama in a fashion similar to Kubo and the Two Strings. Actually, the more I think about it, Kubo is probably the closest analogue to what a Zelda movie would look like. A young boy coming into his own by seeking treasures to fight a great evil, only to realize that the power resides within him.

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    Default Re: Sonic the Hedgehog, the Movie

    I feel like a movie wouldn't match the pacing of the games, it'd need to be some sort of planned trilogy. I think that a series would be a better fit, each season could focus on an area/dungeon, that way it could flesh out Hyrule and other characters and make the stakes of delving into the dungeon and stopping Ganon or the big bad clear.

    I'd agree with Rodin that an aventure feel and being animated would be the way to go. But I think the adaptation could get away with Link having more companions besides this turn's fairy.


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    Default Re: Sonic the Hedgehog, the Movie

    Maybe Wind Waker is the logical pave to start? Now I've never actually played the game (despite wanting to it's never been on a system I own), but from my understanding Link has a more established personality than normal (which I believe from what I've seen of the other Toon Link games), it has an easy source of secondary characters in the pirates. Maybe an animated duopoly streamlining the story into two distinct parts (maybe Tetra/you know who as the dividing factor).

    Making a Zelda movie or series isn't impossible, but the biggest roadblocks are the fact that Link's personality is generally as undefined as the plot will let them her away with. In many ways it would be easier to make a film (or book, or TV series) out of a 4X game, where you can crease characters out of nothing without stepping on anybody's vote of how Link acts (also why Mario is easier, he tends to have more obvious personality traits).
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    Default Re: Sonic the Hedgehog, the Movie

    It's also kind of a misconception that Link doesn't talk anyway. They never show his dialogue, but he clearly speaks in most games.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rynjin View Post
    It's also kind of a misconception that Link doesn't talk anyway. They never show his dialogue, but he clearly speaks in most games.
    It's a misconception that he doesn't talk when he has never been shown talking?

    Yes, he does communicate. He's never treated as mute. But we, the audience, have NO idea what Link talking would look like, because it's never been shown. This greatly limits everything we know about him, from personality right the way down to what sort of accent he might have. He is an absolute blank slate outside of his "everyman hero" persona, and the differences between games get about as complicated as "this Link likes trains".

    Compare to Princess Zelda. We've got the classic princess version from Link to the Past. We've got Sheik, who is so different to be nearly a different character. There's Tetra the Pirate Queen, and the version from Spirit Tracks that I like to refer to as Anger Management Zelda.

    Because Zelda can talk, we know quite a bit about her character in the various iterations of the series. Link though? He's still just some guy who happens to be the Hero.

    If you're making a movie, you have to make a choice about how to portray him. And everybody is going to have their own take on it, and be disappointed when their version doesn't show up.

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    Default Re: Sonic the Hedgehog, the Movie

    Quote Originally Posted by Rodin View Post
    It's a misconception that he doesn't talk when he has never been shown talking?

    Yes, he does communicate. He's never treated as mute. But we, the audience, have NO idea what Link talking would look like, because it's never been shown. This greatly limits everything we know about him, from personality right the way down to what sort of accent he might have. He is an absolute blank slate outside of his "everyman hero" persona, and the differences between games get about as complicated as "this Link likes trains".

    Compare to Princess Zelda. We've got the classic princess version from Link to the Past. We've got Sheik, who is so different to be nearly a different character. There's Tetra the Pirate Queen, and the version from Spirit Tracks that I like to refer to as Anger Management Zelda.

    Because Zelda can talk, we know quite a bit about her character in the various iterations of the series. Link though? He's still just some guy who happens to be the Hero.

    If you're making a movie, you have to make a choice about how to portray him. And everybody is going to have their own take on it, and be disappointed when their version doesn't show up.
    He's actually explicitly treated as mostly mute in Breath of the Wild due to anxiety. That game also has the most personality in your dialogue options too.

    Anyway I think the pre-Breath of the Wild plot would make an outrageously good movie. Just as my two cents.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reddish Mage View Post
    I cannot for the life of me think of what sort of plot your suggesting.

    Zelda revolves around a few cliche that make for the most basic of movie plots, but beyond that itís all up in the air.

    In most games Zelda gets kidnapped (often becoming passive, sometimes send magic aid) and Link goes and rescues her while also eventually acquiring the triforce (but actually often times itís just some brief references and hinting that Zelda/Link/Ganin form the thing together).

    Linkía adventures have in common they involve a lot of artifact getting and dungeon crawling.

    Some games have a particular gimmick like time travel or boating or open world.

    None of this directly translates into epic fantasy.
    Geez! In all seriousness I see where you are coming from, there are three characters total, maybe 4. Link, zelda (who is often in a coma or whatever) bad guy gannon #84587 and maybe an irritating fairy following link around. Aside from the various things like the master sword, the triforce, and so on, there is very little that makes it a legend of zelda story over a generic fantasy story. Now, you could probably still tell a decent story working with these basic tools, though the stripped down cast could be rough as you would have to introduce others, or just give existing characters more of an involvement like mr "its dangerous, take this vaguely sword shape stick!" could be the deckard cain of this universe if you get the diablo reference. Take the plot of one of the various games and write up a script for it instead. An epic quest could make for a good few seasons of a tv show to accomplish gathering up everything and saving the day, then, if it worked well enough, cast a new link and zelda and start over from another game!
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    Default Re: Sonic the Hedgehog, the Movie

    I think Zelda would work better as a tv/streaming mini series instead of a movie. That would give time to visit a few locales, go through a few dungeons, and spend time on whomever the villain is. (It's not always Ganon.)

    It would be interesting if this incarnation of Link were actually mute, and had to deal with the consequences of that. Give him a diverse group of friends to meet & travel with him: fairy, Zora, goron, Gerudo, rito, deku scrub, picori...?


    To be honest, I think Metroid could have potential for a good Nintendo movie, Samus's origins were apparently investigated in detail in a manga. Just, uh, don't hire the writers of Other M.


    Also, I like the theory I've heard that Detective Pikachu was the first movie of Nintendo's Smash Brothers Cinematic Universe.

  28. - Top - End - #238
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    PirateGirl

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    Dec 2013

    Default Re: Sonic the Hedgehog, the Movie

    You're all forgetting that Link does have some character to him. His character is defined by how he interacts with the world.

    Link thinks nothing of going into random peoples' houses and smashing their pots to take their money or anything that might be useful to him. When he finds a gambling house, he'll obsessively keep playing the game until he wins their top prize. He'll also slice up signs and/or lift them out of the ground. Other than that, though, his personality is generally kind of blank.

    Quote Originally Posted by Reddish Mage View Post
    I cannot for the life of me think of what sort of plot your suggesting.

    Zelda revolves around a few cliche that make for the most basic of movie plots, but beyond that itís all up in the air.

    In most games Zelda gets kidnapped (often becoming passive, sometimes send magic aid) and Link goes and rescues her while also eventually acquiring the triforce (but actually often times itís just some brief references and hinting that Zelda/Link/Ganin form the thing together).

    Linkía adventures have in common they involve a lot of artifact getting and dungeon crawling.

    Some games have a particular gimmick like time travel or boating or open world.

    None of this directly translates into epic fantasy.
    I totally agree. You could replace the general premise of Zelda with the general premise of Mario or Sonic and inevitably wind up with the same issue. "Imagine how awesome it could be!" instead becomes, "Why did they make a plot and add characters not in the source material? Why wasn't the movie just 90% one character running around doing things and not talking to anybody?"

    I suspect the people who keep expecting game-based movies to be good are the same people who don't realize game plots are generally better when they're paper-thin.
    I write a horror blog in my spare time.

  29. - Top - End - #239
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Honest Tiefling's Avatar

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    Jun 2011

    Default Re: Sonic the Hedgehog, the Movie

    Quote Originally Posted by BeerMug Paladin View Post
    Link thinks nothing of going into random peoples' houses and smashing their pots to take their money or anything that might be useful to him. When he finds a gambling house, he'll obsessively keep playing the game until he wins their top prize. He'll also slice up signs and/or lift them out of the ground. Other than that, though, his personality is generally kind of blank.
    If I might direct your attention to this...
    Quote Originally Posted by Oko and Qailee View Post
    Man, I like this tiefling.
    For all of your completely and utterly honest needs. Zaydos made, Tiefling approved.

  30. - Top - End - #240
    Troll in the Playground
     
    GnomeWizardGuy

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    Nov 2013

    Default Re: Sonic the Hedgehog, the Movie

    Quote Originally Posted by BeerMug Paladin View Post
    I suspect the people who keep expecting game-based movies to be good are the same people who don't realize game plots are generally better when they're paper-thin.
    I think that's a blanket statement that's difficult to defend. The plot of a Zelda or a Mario or a Sonic being paper thin is superior - you're there for the gameplay, and you don't really need to know much more than "bad guy up to his old tricks, princess captured, go get 'em tiger". For many other games though, the story being deep is absolutely key to player involvement. Games can tell incredible stories, and those tend to be the ones I favor when I sit down to specifically play a game (rather than play something while watching TV, which is where the aforementioned Mario/Sonic/Zelda comes in). Games not translating to movies well is far more complex, and starts with the major mascot characters being deliberately blank slates for maximum marketability.

    Thinking some more on Zelda, I think a TV series would be the way to go. Do it Pirates of Darkwater style - the villain Ganon is out there somewhere corrupting Hyrule, and Link, Zelda, Navi, and [insert additional characters of your choice here] are trying to track down the Macguffins to stop him. The episodes vary between stopping Ganon's latest scheme and searching for clues for the Macguffins. When they find a clue you get an episode of them going through the dungeon, which can be varied up by having to race Ganon for it, or having Ganon get there first, or having to convince the dungeon guardian that they're a force for Good...etc. etc. Eventually, an "A Link Between Worlds" type situation happens and Zelda and other characters are trapped to create the Dark World. The tone of the show goes from light and fluffy to a darker but still kid-friendly tone, and we get Link going through the Dark World freeing his friends until finally Zelda is freed and they all join together to take Ganon on in a final showdown.

    Either do that, or just finish Pirates of Darkwater. Damn I loved that show.

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