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  1. - Top - End - #31
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    Default Re: What plot twist most disappointed you?

    Quote Originally Posted by LadyEowyn View Post
    The Azurites are never returning to Gobbotopia. The city’s fall was a direct consequence of the crimes of the Sapphire Guard; it will not be reversed. And GDGU made it clear that the Azurites are doung fine where they are.
    Which make me wonder, are they Westerners now? If Daigo and Kazumi's child becomes a Cleric, can they still worship the Twelve despite being on Marduk & Co's territrorry? Or are islands not part of the division of the world and become part of the territory of the gods of the people who settle them?
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  2. - Top - End - #32
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    Default Re: What plot twist most disappointed you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rrmcklin View Post
    Pretty sure we have word from the Author that that was exactly what was going on. I don't remember what thread, though.
    The subject had its own thread.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    This has been answered by other posters, so let me just add my support to these:
    Quote Originally Posted by JBiddles View Post
    I thought I was very believable. Xykon isn't particularly emotionally invested in the Gates - if Kraagor's Gate explodes as well, he'll be irritated, shrug, vapourise Redcloak and move onto the next scheme for world domination, because he has the assets to do so. However, he ''is'' very concerned about protecting himself and his phylactery; if Xykon discovered Redcloak's treachery, Redcloak would be waking up with the Dark One in less time than it takes for Miko to reach a conclusion. Last time Xykon listened to Redcloak, he only just managed to save his phylactery and would've been reduced to ash by two Epic spellcasters and an androgynous elf if not for V's arrogance.
    Quote Originally Posted by FujinAkari View Post
    That said, I personally find it bewildering how many people think the MitD fooled Xykon. I think Xykon saw through it like a wet t-shirt, but I also think Xykon is frustrated with delays and the MitD -did- actually make a good point... why waste EVEN MORE time in a squabble for a freaking -crater- when there is another gate completely unaccounted for?

    The only dissenting explanation I've seen is "Well, Xykon should be horrifically pissed! He should want to kill something!" That doesn't match how Xykon is presented in the comic. Xykon is shown killing out of boredom or killing to solve a problem, but he isn't shown as someone who murders as a way to vent.

  3. - Top - End - #33
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    Default Re: What plot twist most disappointed you?

    Xykon is definitely someone who kills as a way to vent. It’s just that he so rarely gets invested in something that he almost never gets genuinely upset.
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  4. - Top - End - #34
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    Default Re: What plot twist most disappointed you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    Xykon is definitely someone who kills as a way to vent. It’s just that he so rarely gets invested in something that he almost never gets genuinely upset.
    Yeah he bisected the serving lady when he couldn't taste coffee anymore
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  5. - Top - End - #35
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    Default Re: What plot twist most disappointed you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jasdoif View Post
    Interestingly, no mention was made of Tsukiko or Xykon's suspicions towards Redcloak. It seems those forumers The Giant agreed with were saying that Xykon felt Redcloak's advice wasn't worth listening to anymore due to the phylactery fiasco, and that he was fixated on the idea of not wasting any more time. Frankly, I like my headcanon better
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  6. - Top - End - #36
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    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: What plot twist most disappointed you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lvl45DM! View Post
    Yeah he bisected the serving lady when he couldn't taste coffee anymore
    And he was within seconds of killing both O-Chul and V when his phylactery was lost, which was largely down to rage.

  7. - Top - End - #37
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    Default Re: What plot twist most disappointed you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Calavera View Post
    ??? I've no idea what you mean. In that scene, which for just a brief moment I thought was real, Xykon had full on double dead "x"s for eyes.

    Edit, just realised you think I meant the scene with the real Xykon, after the gate blew up. Nope.
    In that scene, it was the microcosm, where the 17th level Redcloak only healed himself and Xykon instead of casting Implosion and wrecking two whole party members instantly. It was the best possible scenario for the party to just immediately fight Xykon right then and there. It was what the ones walking in the hallway (the order) wanted which usually would have meant their deaths at the hand of the draketooths. In a real fight with Xykon and RC, there's no guarantee the Spellsplinter Maneuver would have worked and it just happened to work all times Roy tried it, and as mentioned RC would just Implosion them before they could get close.
    Quote Originally Posted by Requilac View Post
    Wow, i can’t believe it, WotC actually made the rules compatible for a situation in which an ape demon is leaping into the air to knock a vampire out of a Poylmorphed T-rex’s jaws who is flying 120 feet above the ground.
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  8. - Top - End - #38
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    Default Re: What plot twist most disappointed you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gluteus_Maximus View Post
    RC would just Implosion them before they could get close.
    Can implosion one-shot Roy?

    Or rather: in a scale from V to Roy, how many OotS members can implosion one-shot?

    (or, if it is save-or-die - sorry, d20 srd is blocked for me right now - in a scale of V to Roy, how many members of the OotS does implosion have a >50% chance of killing?)

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    Quote Originally Posted by woweedd View Post
    I would say that's the dumbest theory Grey Wolf's heard, but, let's be honest: It's Grey Wolf. They've probably heard dumber theories today. Point is, neat idea, but it's a real stretch.
    Ceterum autem censeo Hilgya malefica est

  9. - Top - End - #39
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    Default Re: What plot twist most disappointed you?

    It's a 9th level save or die that targets Fort saves. The DC will be 19+ whatever Redcloak's Wis bonus is (Wis at least 20 according to Geekery, so bonus is at least +5, so DC is at least 24.)

    As a 14th level fighter with a Con of at least 12, Roy's Fort save is, at minimum, +10 (+9, +1 for Con).

    Roy needs to roll a 14 to survive Implosion (assuming he has minimum CON specified in Geekery Thread).

    So, even Roy has a better than 50% chance of being killed with Implosion.
    Last edited by hamishspence; 2019-05-03 at 12:35 PM.
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  10. - Top - End - #40
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    Default Re: What plot twist most disappointed you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    Can implosion one-shot Roy?

    Or rather: in a scale from V to Roy, how many OotS members can implosion one-shot?

    (or, if it is save-or-die - sorry, d20 srd is blocked for me right now - in a scale of V to Roy, how many members of the OotS does implosion have a >50% chance of killing?)

    Grey Wolf
    Last I read, Implosion is a #-of-rounds per caster level, point at a creature, it dies, probably with a fort save. And with RC's save DC, and how it killed the leader of the Eleven Insurgents, he could probably kill anyone in the party but Roy and Durkon with it at 50%+ accuracy.

    EDIT: it's up to 4 rounds, and fort negates. Due to the clerics' and fighters' +9 to fort saves and RC's DC 22+ save DC, he could kill V, Elan, and Haley pretty easily and the other three slightly less so.
    Last edited by Gluteus_Maximus; 2019-05-03 at 02:06 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Requilac View Post
    Wow, i can’t believe it, WotC actually made the rules compatible for a situation in which an ape demon is leaping into the air to knock a vampire out of a Poylmorphed T-rex’s jaws who is flying 120 feet above the ground.
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  11. - Top - End - #41
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    ElfRogueGirl

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    Default Re: What plot twist most disappointed you?

    Of course, that's just his minimum, he could be higher than this, but we wouldn't know for sure. At the very least, everyone treats him as having enough fortitude to tank some pretty hefty hits, but if Hilgya can fail a will save, Roy can fail a fortitude save.

    O-Chul can definitely tank implosion for hours without issue though.

  12. - Top - End - #42
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    Default Re: What plot twist most disappointed you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gluteus_Maximus View Post
    Last I read, Implosion is a #-of-rounds per caster level, point at a creature, it dies, probably with a fort save.
    Duration: Concentration (up to 4 rounds).

    So, he can only kill a maximum of 4 people with 1 casting.
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  13. - Top - End - #43
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    Default Re: What plot twist most disappointed you?

    Quote Originally Posted by hamishspence View Post
    Duration: Concentration (up to 4 rounds).

    So, he can only kill a maximum of 4 people with 1 casting.
    Only four people. :P

  14. - Top - End - #44
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    Default Re: What plot twist most disappointed you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gluteus_Maximus View Post
    EDIT: it's up to 4 rounds, and fort negates. Due to the clerics' and fighters' +9 to fort saves and RC's DC 22+ save DC, he could kill V, Belkar, and Haley pretty easily and the other three less so.
    Belkar has two good Fort save classes (ranger and barbarian), so he has a second +2 boost; and a +3 vest of resistance besides.

  15. - Top - End - #45
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    ElfRogueGirl

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    Default Re: What plot twist most disappointed you?

    Too bad protection from evil's resistance bonus wouldn't stack with that vest.

  16. - Top - End - #46
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    Default Re: What plot twist most disappointed you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jasdoif View Post
    Belkar has two good Fort save classes (ranger and barbarian), so he has a second +2 boost; and a +3 vest of resistance besides.
    He got his vest in tinkertown, didn't he?
    Quote Originally Posted by Requilac View Post
    Wow, i can’t believe it, WotC actually made the rules compatible for a situation in which an ape demon is leaping into the air to knock a vampire out of a Poylmorphed T-rex’s jaws who is flying 120 feet above the ground.
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  17. - Top - End - #47
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    Default Re: What plot twist most disappointed you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gluteus_Maximus View Post
    He got his vest in tinkertown, didn't he?
    Err... yes? They literally linked you to the strip in which he got it.

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    Last edited by Grey_Wolf_c; 2019-05-03 at 01:17 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by woweedd View Post
    I would say that's the dumbest theory Grey Wolf's heard, but, let's be honest: It's Grey Wolf. They've probably heard dumber theories today. Point is, neat idea, but it's a real stretch.
    Ceterum autem censeo Hilgya malefica est

  18. - Top - End - #48
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    Default Re: What plot twist most disappointed you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jasdoif View Post
    Belkar has two good Fort save classes (ranger and barbarian), so he has a second +2 boost; and a +3 vest of resistance besides.
    Indeed. Elan, as (mostly) a Bard, is a better candidate for "Very vulnerable to it" in the same fashion as V and Haley.
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  19. - Top - End - #49
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    Default Re: What plot twist most disappointed you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gluteus_Maximus View Post
    He got his vest in tinkertown, didn't he?
    Yes. I'm not entirely sure if we're talking exclusively about the illusion in Girard's pyramid, or if we could also be talking about if Redcloak fights the Order at some point in the next book.
    Last edited by Jasdoif; 2019-05-03 at 01:24 PM.

  20. - Top - End - #50
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    Default Re: What plot twist most disappointed you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jasdoif View Post
    Yes. I'm not entirely sure if we're talking exclusively about the illusion in Girard's pyramid, or if we could also be talking about if Redcloak fights the Order at some point in the next book.
    I was assuming it were the former, for I was stating that the fight with Team Evil in the pyramid was not a disappointing fight, because it didn't happen, not really, and that Redcloak would have thought it best to implode Roy and next Haley instead of healing sneak attacks and greatsword damage that won't matter if he can just kill the enemies instantly.

    Even if Belkar had the vest he would have ~+14 to his save (which by hamishspence's math gets him barely to a 50-50 odds), and Redcloak would take those odds anyway.

    Watch Redcloak never prepare Implosion again since all the monsters in Kraagor's Tomb have probably better-than-the-order Fortitude, so we don't ever have to think about our favorite characters getting imploded in one or two panels when their arcs go over all 1300+ comics leading up to that point.
    Last edited by Gluteus_Maximus; 2019-05-03 at 02:04 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Requilac View Post
    Wow, i can’t believe it, WotC actually made the rules compatible for a situation in which an ape demon is leaping into the air to knock a vampire out of a Poylmorphed T-rex’s jaws who is flying 120 feet above the ground.
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  21. - Top - End - #51
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    Default Re: What plot twist most disappointed you?

    Whoa, is Implosion really as broken as you guys are making it sound?
    (<--- Not a D&D player)
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  22. - Top - End - #52
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    Default Re: What plot twist most disappointed you?

    Belkar's Con score is not known. If it's high, his save may be better than +14. That said, I'd agree that, even if he's the most likely of the Order to survive an Implosion, his chances still aren't great.

    Quote Originally Posted by hroşila View Post
    Whoa, is Implosion really as broken as you guys are making it sound?
    (<--- Not a D&D player)
    9th level spells are supposed to be very dangerous. It still allows Spell Resistance though.
    Last edited by hamishspence; 2019-05-03 at 02:10 PM.
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  23. - Top - End - #53
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    ElfRogueGirl

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    Default Re: What plot twist most disappointed you?

    Quote Originally Posted by hroşila View Post
    Whoa, is Implosion really as broken as you guys are making it sound?
    (<--- Not a D&D player)
    In D&D, there are spells which are known as "Save or die" spells. Those spells, if you fail your saving throw once, instantly kill, or at least remove your character from the fight. Implosion is one such spell. Other such spell would petrify your character, or mind control them, or paralyze them.

    Unsurprisingly, those kinds of spells are a reason why spellcasters constantly have an edge over a physical damage-focused character.

  24. - Top - End - #54
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    Default Re: What plot twist most disappointed you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Resileaf View Post
    In D&D, there are spells which are known as "Save or die" spells. Those spells, if you fail your saving throw once, instantly kill, or at least remove your character from the fight. Implosion is one such spell. Other such spell would petrify your character, or mind control them, or paralyze them.

    Unsurprisingly, those kinds of spells are a reason why spellcasters constantly have an edge over a physical damage-focused character.
    Yeah, I mean, I knew of "Save or die" spells, what I didn't know is that a single Implosion spell potentially allows you to do it to four different people. That sounds rather excessive.
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  25. - Top - End - #55
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    Default Re: What plot twist most disappointed you?

    Quote Originally Posted by hroşila View Post
    Yeah, I mean, I knew of "Save or die" spells, what I didn't know is that a single Implosion spell potentially allows you to do it to four different people. That sounds rather excessive.
    It does take four rounds, though. A lot can happen to the caster in those four rounds, I'd imagine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by woweedd View Post
    I would say that's the dumbest theory Grey Wolf's heard, but, let's be honest: It's Grey Wolf. They've probably heard dumber theories today. Point is, neat idea, but it's a real stretch.
    Ceterum autem censeo Hilgya malefica est

  26. - Top - End - #56
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    Default Re: What plot twist most disappointed you?

    Quote Originally Posted by hroşila View Post
    Yeah, I mean, I knew of "Save or die" spells, what I didn't know is that a single Implosion spell potentially allows you to do it to four different people. That sounds rather excessive.
    Ninth-level spells tend towards the excessive. For another example, wail of the banshee is save-or-die for 17+ people. (It's also a sonic effect and a death effect, so there are more defenses against it as compared to implosion.)

  27. - Top - End - #57
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    GreataxeFighterGirl

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    Default Re: What plot twist most disappointed you?

    Is Implosion consecutive? RC used it consecutively (from what the strip shows) on the Commander and Lieutenant, but if it's not he could technically "save it" for later use if he holds his Concentration.

    Also, implosion is such a cool word. Implosion, implosion, implosion.

  28. - Top - End - #58
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    Default Re: What plot twist most disappointed you?

    Quote Originally Posted by understatement View Post
    Is Implosion consecutive? RC used it consecutively (from what the strip shows) on the Commander and Lieutenant, but if it's not he could technically "save it" for later use if he holds his Concentration.

    Also, implosion is such a cool word. Implosion, implosion, implosion.
    The rounds it can be used are consecutive. You don't have to use implosion every round, but you can't wait ten rounds between uses. It's four rounds maximum.

  29. - Top - End - #59
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    Default Re: What plot twist most disappointed you?

    Quote Originally Posted by understatement View Post
    Is Implosion consecutive? RC used it consecutively (from what the strip shows) on the Commander and Lieutenant, but if it's not he could technically "save it" for later use if he holds his Concentration.
    If he stops concentrating on it, the spell ends.

  30. - Top - End - #60
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    Default Re: What plot twist most disappointed you?

    Ooh, okay. Thanks.

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