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  1. - Top - End - #91
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    Default Re: What plot twist most disappointed you?

    People seem to think that the negative energy spirits are demons (even the twitter-people when the comic where it was revealed Durkon learned Accelerate Vampirism instead of Protection From Sunlight) possessing dwarves' bodies but a Vampire is something totally different: It's you, but it's slowly absorbing all your emotions and memories. (It's also in-universe that the gods don't have control over fiends, their clerics can only summon them, Hel would have no way of a) creating a demon and b) summoning a demon that has no memories but Durkon's worst to somehow possess his body)

    And for narrative sense, if that was REALLY Durkon, then the entirety of this book would never happen- They would just go to the pole (because the godsmoot only happened because it was Durkon*), completely ignoring that because the "No" vote won without Durkon* and fight Xykon; adventure over. And this was character development for Durkon- or rather, character development of his adopted quasi-family, which is pretty much what all his memories before leaving dwarven lands are about and if it wasn't Durkon, there was no way he'd make the order stop at the temple in Firmament to grab a new lightning hammer and say hi to Thor who tells him about all the cosmic madness that's been going on- He HAD to be possessed and taken to the Godsmoot against his will in order to have this story go the way The Giant wanted.
    Quote Originally Posted by Requilac View Post
    Wow, i can’t believe it, WotC actually made the rules compatible for a situation in which an ape demon is leaping into the air to knock a vampire out of a Poylmorphed T-rex’s jaws who is flying 120 feet above the ground.
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  2. - Top - End - #92
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    Default Re: What plot twist most disappointed you?

    I don't think anyone is using "demon" in a D&D sense, but in a more general, "evil spirit that comes from the outside to possess you" sense. After all, we're not discussing just D&D here.
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  3. - Top - End - #93
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    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: What plot twist most disappointed you?

    Quote Originally Posted by hroşila View Post
    I don't think anyone is using "demon" in a D&D sense, but in a more general, "evil spirit that comes from the outside to possess you" sense. After all, we're not discussing just D&D here.
    Exactly. Even if the evil spirit inserted into Durkula was based on Durkon, it was not him, or even a good copy of him, because it was limited to Durkon at his worst and never really developed beyond that until the massive memory dump at the end.

  4. - Top - End - #94
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    Default Re: What plot twist most disappointed you?

    I, meanwhile, think Hel's line about "your dark spirit was born in my hall" is vastly overplayed and Greg no more "came from the outside" than Durkon himself did.

    I recognize that in the absence of a probably-not-forthcoming clarification from Rich, I cannot prove that it would be equally accurate for Thor or Odin to say to Durkon "Your bright spirit was born in my hall," but in the absence of disproof, I believe it.
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    "The really unforgivable acts are committed by calm men in beautiful green silk rooms, who deal death wholesale, by the shipload, without lust, or anger, or desire, or any redeeming emotion to excuse them but cold fear of some pretended future. But the crimes they hope to prevent in the future are imaginary. The ones they commit in the present--they are real." --Aral Vorkosigan

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    This, in a nutshell.
    Yes, exactly.

  5. - Top - End - #95
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    BlueWizardGirl

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    Default Re: What plot twist most disappointed you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kish View Post
    I, meanwhile, think Hel's line about "your dark spirit was born in my hall" is vastly overplayed and Greg no more "came from the outside" than Durkon himself did.

    I recognize that in the absence of a probably-not-forthcoming clarification from Rich, I cannot prove that it would be equally accurate for Thor or Odin to say to Durkon "Your bright spirit was born in my hall," but in the absence of disproof, I believe it.
    Based on this tweet (mobile link), Hel had some input in Greg's creation. This would have been her only opportunity to instruct him to impersonate Durkon (although that's kind of the default option anyway). I presume she got dibs on Durkon's soul because of Loki's bet, not because Durkon's lowest moment included him wishing Hel upon the Church of Thor. (edit: I mean Hel got dibs on Durkon's vampire. Thor got his soul proper, obviously.)

    Oversold, maybe a little - Durkon's memories shaped Greg throughout his entire existence - but I do think Hel's claim is basically accurate with respect to Greg's initial formation.
    Last edited by Aveline; 2019-05-04 at 01:44 PM.

  6. - Top - End - #96
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    Default Re: What plot twist most disappointed you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aveline View Post
    Based on this tweet (mobile link), Hel had some input in Greg's creation. This would have been her only opportunity to instruct him to impersonate Durkon (although that's kind of the default option anyway). I presume she got dibs on Durkon's soul because of Loki's bet, not because Durkon's lowest moment included him wishing Hel upon the Church of Thor. (edit: I mean Hel got dibs on Durkon's vampire. Thor got his soul proper, obviously.)
    Close, but not quite.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    Hel does not have rightful dominion over Durkon's soul as part of her normal assignment of dishonored souls, however, because Durkon did in fact die in battle. She got involved because she is also, separately, the Northern deity of undeath, and one of her "duties" is making the evil spirits for all Northern vampires. The vampirization process basically jammed up the normal disposition of Durkon's soul by trapping it inside the undead body. Where Durkon's actual soul ends up will not be determined until/unless it is freed. It's a like a naturally occurring Trap the Soul spell.
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  7. - Top - End - #97
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    Default Re: What plot twist most disappointed you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gluteus_Maximus View Post
    People seem to think that the negative energy spirits are demons (even the twitter-people when the comic where it was revealed Durkon learned Accelerate Vampirism instead of Protection From Sunlight) possessing dwarves' bodies but a Vampire is something totally different: It's you, but it's slowly absorbing all your emotions and memories. (It's also in-universe that the gods don't have control over fiends, their clerics can only summon them, Hel would have no way of a) creating a demon and b) summoning a demon that has no memories but Durkon's worst to somehow possess his body)
    This is understood now, but at the time? It was totally a demon possessing Durkon.

    For comparison's sake, much as I hate to, I'll invoke The Vampire Diaries, which I have seen only because I have a teenage daughter and Netflix. Those vampires, teenage and angsty as they are, at least are their own selves, driven by bloodlust and either giving in to it or else fighting their urges and masquerading as normal people. (In fact, it's a sort of Vampire: The Masquerade- The TV Series.) At least, that's my understanding. I could be wrong- I usually read a book while it's on.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ruck View Post
    Ah, I see. That said, I don't think there's a rational basis for Andi's intentional disrespect of Bandana as seen in Tinkertown. Also, I think what we do see of Bandana as a captain, she's good enough at the job that any problems with her leadership are sort of by definition irrational.
    Is jealousy ever rational? A decent share of Andi's problem was jealousy over Bandana getting the command when Andi felt she should be next in line for it IIRC.

    Quote Originally Posted by Resileaf View Post
    Plus there are times when you think slower than other times.
    Errmmmmm........... yeah...
    Last edited by Darth Paul; 2019-05-04 at 02:06 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    Also, everything Darth Paul just said.
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  8. - Top - End - #98
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    Default Re: What plot twist most disappointed you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Close, but not quite.
    Well that clarifies things. I think this passage is a bit more salient:

    There is absolutely zero difference between Malack and Durkon's vampirizations, with the sole exception that Hel made the spirit sitting in Durkon's head while Nergal made the one that was sitting in Malack's.
    Meaning Hel "made" Greg in some capacity. And also raising metaphysical questions about what alignments a god of death can possibly have, and how vampirism could work in the absence of such a god... but that's a different topic.
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  9. - Top - End - #99
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    Default Re: What plot twist most disappointed you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aveline View Post
    Oversold, maybe a little - Durkon's memories shaped Greg throughout his entire existence - but I do think Hel's claim is basically accurate with respect to Greg's initial formation.
    Once again, my disagreement is with the implication that it would be less accurate if Thor or Odin told Durkon "Of course you're determined to save the world. Your bright spirit was born in my hall."
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    "The really unforgivable acts are committed by calm men in beautiful green silk rooms, who deal death wholesale, by the shipload, without lust, or anger, or desire, or any redeeming emotion to excuse them but cold fear of some pretended future. But the crimes they hope to prevent in the future are imaginary. The ones they commit in the present--they are real." --Aral Vorkosigan

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    This, in a nutshell.
    Yes, exactly.

  10. - Top - End - #100
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    Default Re: What plot twist most disappointed you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kish View Post
    Once again, my disagreement is with the implication that it would be less accurate if Thor or Odin told Durkon "Of course you're determined to save the world. Your bright spirit was born in my hall."
    I think the disappointment here, was that the vampire wasn't Durkon changed by vampirism but a distinct entity with Durkon's mind untouched by the transformation. Even though the seond entity was of Durkon, it wasn't Durkon.
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  11. - Top - End - #101
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    Default Re: What plot twist most disappointed you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Paul View Post
    Is jealousy ever rational? A decent share of Andi's problem was jealousy over Bandana getting the command when Andi felt she should be next in line for it IIRC.
    Yeah, I mean, that's kind of my point; I don't think Andi's dislike of Captain Bandana was ever rational, even if she may have seemed such earlier on.

  12. - Top - End - #102
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    Default Re: What plot twist most disappointed you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ruck View Post
    Yeah, I mean, that's kind of my point; I don't think Andi's dislike of Captain Bandana was ever rational, even if she may have seemed such earlier on.
    Well, humans often have irrational behaviour. Irrationality combined with stress makes people do really dumb things. Why should humans in a stick figure comic strip be any different?

  13. - Top - End - #103
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    Default Re: What plot twist most disappointed you?

    Vaarsuvius "four words" were disappointing dramatically.

    In a world with the Sending spell, I think a lot more people would be using that spell a lot more often. For example, the Sapphire Guard would have been using Sending when their palantir outposts didn't check in on schedule. And any large city such as Azure City or Cliffport would have envoys posted near the Oracle of Sunken Valley and would get several questions per day answered.

    Haley would have asked V to send a message to her father years ago. V would also be talking to their family occasionally, before Inky filed for divorce, that is.

    And we have to retcon Durkon's reaction to his exile because he's been talking to his mother every week for years, and he could have talked to many other dwarves as well!

    The Giant has said that characters having access to Teleport and True Resurrection would mess up the story. Maybe he sees Sending in the same category? Even if Sending doesn't damage stories, it would at least have a profound impact on world building.

  14. - Top - End - #104
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    Default Re: What plot twist most disappointed you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Furey View Post
    In a world with the Sending spell, I think a lot more people would be using that spell a lot more often. For example, the Sapphire Guard would have been using Sending when their palantir outposts didn't check in on schedule. And any large city such as Azure City or Cliffport would have envoys posted near the Oracle of Sunken Valley and would get several questions per day answered.
    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee's Ye Olde SRDe
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  15. - Top - End - #105
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    Default Re: What plot twist most disappointed you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Furey View Post
    V would also be talking to their family occasionally, before Inky filed for divorce, that is.
    V was practically ignoring Inky when they were living together.
    Last edited by hroşila; 2019-05-04 at 04:46 PM.
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    Default Re: What plot twist most disappointed you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Resileaf View Post
    Well, humans often have irrational behaviour. Irrationality combined with stress makes people do really dumb things. Why should humans in a stick figure comic strip be any different?
    I never said they shouldn't?

  17. - Top - End - #107
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    Default Re: What plot twist most disappointed you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    I think the disappointment here, was that the vampire wasn't Durkon changed by vampirism but a distinct entity with Durkon's mind untouched by the transformation. Even though the seond entity was of Durkon, it wasn't Durkon.
    HPoH was Durkon enough for the story's purpose. That's the whole reason Durkon's plan worked.

    While I can understand the general disappointment, I can also see the intent: This was the classic "good side and evil side" situation reframed as an interpersonal conflict; making it more interesting to convey in a comic strip, allowing HPoH to act as "abruptly evil Durkon" would, leaves "good Durkon" is position to deal with "evil Durkon" without resorting to typical "split personality" approaches, and it doesn't call for the usual post-unification mental reconciliation since they were distinct minds in the first place.

    Basically, it saved us from the book having long stretches of strips like these.

  18. - Top - End - #108
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    Default Re: What plot twist most disappointed you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kish View Post
    Once again, my disagreement is with the implication that it would be less accurate if Thor or Odin told Durkon "Of course you're determined to save the world. Your bright spirit was born in my hall."
    I think it would be less accurate. No god had any direct involvement in Durkon's birth, to the best of my knowledge. Compare that with the direct quote from Rich that "Hel made the spirit sitting in Durkon's head". Thor's influence consists of granting spells and Odin's influence consists of issuing a prophecy (well, until they met up in the afterlife, at least). It's being a negative energy spirit rather than a mortal that makes room for Greg to have come straight from Hel. Durkon just came from mortals.
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  19. - Top - End - #109
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    Default Re: What plot twist most disappointed you?

    If I was confident you were expressing disagreement with my perspective rather than simply not getting what it is, I would shrug and move on.

    As it is, I am shrugging and moving on anyway because I can't think of any other way to express it.
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    "The really unforgivable acts are committed by calm men in beautiful green silk rooms, who deal death wholesale, by the shipload, without lust, or anger, or desire, or any redeeming emotion to excuse them but cold fear of some pretended future. But the crimes they hope to prevent in the future are imaginary. The ones they commit in the present--they are real." --Aral Vorkosigan

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    This, in a nutshell.
    Yes, exactly.

  20. - Top - End - #110
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    Default Re: What plot twist most disappointed you?

    It's entirely possible I don't understand what you're getting at.

    Are you saying that Thor and Odin's meddling in Durkon's life constitutes the same degree of influence as Hel had over Greg? We could shrug and disagree about that.
    Last edited by Aveline; 2019-05-04 at 06:51 PM.

  21. - Top - End - #111
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    Default Re: What plot twist most disappointed you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rrmcklin View Post
    Fair opinion, but I don't see how it really counts as a plot twist. Hel was pretty openly presented as evil from her first appearance. There's no twist involved.

    Also kind of weird since we only found out about the quiddity stuff fairly recently, but the Hel and vampire stuff started like six years ago.
    I admit it's not really a plot twist, but that scene made a firm point that Hel is capital-E Evil, when there was room for her to be at least Neutral in her earlier scenes. Correct me if I'm wrong, but all those scenes consisted mostly of comedic stingers with Thor, which I wasn't reading as her being Evil, just stingy about the terms of their bet. Obviously, that may be different in hindsight, but that's what I was thinking at the time.

    Hel and the vampire plot may have started that long ago (has it really been six years ago? Geez...), but it doesn't mean she wouldn't know about TDO having a McGuffin quiddity. If anything it makes more sense for her to want TDO to come back to the table with all the other gods and pantheons, since she's in a somewhat similar position herself; and parleying with an evil god strikes me far more of "reach-across-the-aisle" Neutral approach than what Thor was okay with, but obviously the comic took a different approach. I'm okay with how things turned out, but I do think this would have been more interesting, at least to me.
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  22. - Top - End - #112
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    Default Re: What plot twist most disappointed you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aveline View Post
    It's entirely possible I don't understand what you're getting at.

    Are you saying that Thor and Odin's meddling in Durkon's life constitutes the same degree of influence as Hel had over Greg?
    No. I am saying nothing about the prophecy; that's all you. Let me try putting it the other way around.

    I think your statement: "Durkon just came from mortals." is no more accurate than would be the statement, "Greg just came from Malack." Both had a body and a soul. Both had the same body. Greg's soul was created by Hel, and Durkon's soul was created by...almost certainly Odin.
    Last edited by Kish; 2019-05-04 at 08:43 PM.
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    "The really unforgivable acts are committed by calm men in beautiful green silk rooms, who deal death wholesale, by the shipload, without lust, or anger, or desire, or any redeeming emotion to excuse them but cold fear of some pretended future. But the crimes they hope to prevent in the future are imaginary. The ones they commit in the present--they are real." --Aral Vorkosigan

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    This, in a nutshell.
    Yes, exactly.

  23. - Top - End - #113
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    Default Re: What plot twist most disappointed you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Emanick View Post
    Honestly, probably Xykon and Redcloak escaping from the Azure City throne room when they were so close to being defeated.

    I know, I know, it was objectively good for the story. Obviously, we the audience are much better off as a result. But in the moment, I couldn't help but be so upset that Soon couldn't land that last couple of blows. He came SO. CLOSE!
    Well, he couldn't possibly kill Team Evil at that point in the story.
    It would have been...
    TOO SOON! AAAAAARGHBLBLBLBllll

    Quote Originally Posted by factotum View Post
    I have to agree. The idea of a vampire who is genuinely the original person in every way, but warped by their hunger for blood into doing evil, is far more interesting to me than "demon takes possession of corpse".
    Interesting. It's kind of the opposite for me. I'd actually never encountered that "demon takes possession of corpse" idea before (haven't watched Buffy). I think I've seen some people claim that that's how it's supposed to work in d&d, by the way, not that that really matters. Anyway, I thought that it was a good idea. I liked it even more when Greg revealed that he's a spirit that specifically fills the hole in Durkon's heart. It's the only kind of enemy one can literally defeat with introspection. Durkon faced his own demons, not some random demon.

    He found out why he is the way he is, what made him who he is, and with that knowledge plotted to turn the vampire into himself. He really turned undead this time. Dayam, I'm on a roll today. Whooo!!
    Was the vampire's defeat a bit mushy? Sure, but a bit of mushiness from time to time doesn't hurt.

    I also agree with what Jasdoif said.

    Quote Originally Posted by RatElemental View Post
    Mine would probably be the fact that Fruit Pie the Sorcerer, who was obviously always meant to be the 7th member of the order and lead them to the main plot, died in some random unimportant cave in the middle of nowhere in his introductory strip and then we spiraled off into some stupid sidequest for over 1000 strips. I don't know why Rich changed his plans for the character midway through writing the strip, but the signs are obviously there.
    Common amateur writer mistake. He wanted to up the tension and us to think anyone could die at any point so he went and killed his best character.


    Anyway, to answer the OP, I was disappointed by what Rich did with Bozzok and Crystal (Not sure it counts as a plot twist, though). I really liked the flesh golem idea but it didn't feel to me that Tinkertown was the time or place for it. At least not to end it. I think it's mostly because of Bozzok. He never developed into a compelling character for me. When he dies and the other guy tells him "You never were as smart as you thought you were" it rings too true. I mean it was foreshadowed that he was tracking her down, but I was hoping for something more ambitious than what he did with that information that would highlight his inflated idea about himself in a more satisfying way.

    Spoiler: example of what could have been done with Bozzok and Crystal
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    I'd like it more if, for example, Bozzok while spying on Haley for revenge accidentally learned (or half-understood) important information, like the gate stuff. He would then use Crystal (who let's not forget, is a golem that can pose a threat to people Haley's level) and that knowledge to elevate himself to a position of power in some international crime syndicate. Most people there don't like him and some other powerful people whose toes he stepped on as he elevated himself aren't convinced by his supposed great intelligence that landed him this info, so they're waiting for him to make one misstep to dispose of him. Meanwhile, there's constant pressure on him to deliver what he promised; The WORLD! There's a lot of ways this setup could end with him dying horribly in a way that demonstrates that he wasn't as smart as he thought he was, without him being the biggest crime boss of some city far away who did something as ill-conceived as try to randomly assassinate Haley in the middle of some other city for humiliating him (a thing that Belkar did more thoroughly). He'd still be a pathetic failure, but with more power in his hands he'd have potential to fail even more spectacularly, too!

    This would give a) more time to build Crystal and Bozzok's relationship, b) more time to build Bozzok, because let's face it, he sucks but he doesn't suck in a satisfying way, c) more Crystal golem, d)* another player with their eyes on the gates.

    Adding an international crime syndicate as players who try to control the gates would also connect Haley's personal arc to the main plot. I kind of wanted that to happen. Not that particular thing, just the connection. I mean, Elan's arc ended with the vector legion learning about the gates and having a rift in their territory (and I doubt they will do nothing with that knowledge), Durkon's with a mission by his God, a revelation about the huge amount of dead worlds and divine quiddities and an implication that he was specifically chosen by Odin for this mission, V's with the revelation of the world in the rift and the revelation of the IFCC as major players, Roy's basically is the main plot... while Haley's culminated in a speed bump.

    One big problem with all that is that thieves in general and Bozzok in particular feel really not threatening at all after what Belkar did to them. Why Bozzok doesn't hold a grudge against him, I have no idea either. He definitely seems the type. I think they should have at least targeted both Belkar and Haley and first kicked Belkar's ass to re-establish themselves as threats.

    *Of course, the general plot has been planned long ago, and if another player isn't part of the plan, then Rich can't shove one there. Still, I think a lot of what I wrote or something better could have been done with Bozzok, Crystal and Haley without wasting too many strips.


    In summary, Crystal => crazed murderous flesh golem = good direction for the character, Bozzok => felt even weaker and less threatening this time 'round, and my complaint is that I wanted Rich to do more with them.

    So, come to think of it, in the end the plot twist I don't like is Belkar destroying the entire thieves guild single-handedly without breaking a sweat. It kind of highjacks Haley's story and leaves her with what feel like ineffectual foes.

    ...This ended up way way way bigger than I was planning.

  24. - Top - End - #114
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    Default Re: What plot twist most disappointed you?

    I mean, Andi not liking Bandana was clear early on but there seemed to be a swing from "disgruntled but sane employee" to "completely irrational, unreasonable, and incompetent one every level" pretty quickly. I don't know, maybe I missed something. It seems like the female antagonists all fall into the "Crazy B*tch" trope anyways (Sabine being the exception, and if Oona ends up being a proper antagonist she will also be) so maybe I should've expected it.

    I like the theory that Redcloak is the most powerful mortal goblinoid ever. I kind of want to see him make it to epic levels just because I doubt a goblin ever has before and it would be cool.

  25. - Top - End - #115
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    Default Re: What plot twist most disappointed you?

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalFailure View Post
    I mean, Andi not liking Bandana was clear early on but there seemed to be a swing from "disgruntled but sane employee" to "completely irrational, unreasonable, and incompetent one every level" pretty quickly. I don't know, maybe I missed something. It seems like the female antagonists all fall into the "Crazy B*tch" trope anyways (Sabine being the exception, and if Oona ends up being a proper antagonist she will also be) so maybe I should've expected it.

    I like the theory that Redcloak is the most powerful mortal goblinoid ever. I kind of want to see him make it to epic levels just because I doubt a goblin ever has before and it would be cool.
    Laurin wasnt crazy either.

    I think the thing you're missing is "watched 3 of her co-workers get cut in half while giants try to crash your skyship" and she was a competent engineer, seeing as with like, 2 rounds of work she boosted the engine out put of a quasi magical skyship
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  26. - Top - End - #116
    Bugbear in the Playground
    Join Date
    Apr 2018

    Default Re: What plot twist most disappointed you?

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalFailure View Post
    I mean, Andi not liking Bandana was clear early on but there seemed to be a swing from "disgruntled but sane employee" to "completely irrational, unreasonable, and incompetent one every level" pretty quickly. I don't know, maybe I missed something. It seems like the female antagonists all fall into the "Crazy B*tch" trope anyways (Sabine being the exception, and if Oona ends up being a proper antagonist she will also be) so maybe I should've expected it.

    I like the theory that Redcloak is the most powerful mortal goblinoid ever. I kind of want to see him make it to epic levels just because I doubt a goblin ever has before and it would be cool.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lvl45DM! View Post
    Laurin wasnt crazy either.

    I think the thing you're missing is "watched 3 of her co-workers get cut in half while giants try to crash your skyship" and she was a competent engineer, seeing as with like, 2 rounds of work she boosted the engine out put of a quasi magical skyship
    I agree with Lv145DM! here. Even Andi was surprised when she first hit Bandana and was clearly scrambling from that point afterwards. The reason things escalated so suddenly with her was pretty apparent.
    Last edited by Rrmcklin; 2019-05-05 at 03:07 AM.
    I'd just like to point out that saying that something unsupported is the case unless someone else can prove that it is not is an utter failure of logic. - Kish

  27. - Top - End - #117
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    BlueWizardGirl

    Join Date
    Aug 2018

    Default Re: What plot twist most disappointed you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kish View Post
    No. I am saying nothing about the prophecy; that's all you. Let me try putting it the other way around.

    I think your statement: "Durkon just came from mortals." is no more accurate than would be the statement, "Greg just came from Malack." Both had a body and a soul. Both had the same body. Greg's soul was created by Hel, and Durkon's soul was created by...almost certainly Odin.
    Oh, okay. I get it now.

    The idea of Durkon's soul being created by anyone in particular is what was not obvious to me. I don't see how to draw that conclusion.
    Last edited by Aveline; 2019-05-05 at 08:37 AM.

  28. - Top - End - #118
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Lizardfolk

    Join Date
    Feb 2017

    Default Re: What plot twist most disappointed you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lvl45DM! View Post
    Laurin wasnt crazy either.

    I think the thing you're missing is "watched 3 of her co-workers get cut in half while giants try to crash your skyship" and she was a competent engineer, seeing as with like, 2 rounds of work she boosted the engine out put of a quasi magical skyship
    It was made clear Andi was a competent engineer, but couldn't keep a calm head in a crisis, flailed when she assumed command, and in the end did more damage to her ship than the giants did.
    Storywise it provided a subplot for the giant fight which stopped it being a random encounter kerb-stomp (which would've made the filler-cry brigade explode*), and provided a lasting consequence for the Order (I doubt the Mechane is in any shape to carry on north, so they might be forced to take alternate travel methods)
    There are points between 'super competent' and 'totally useless'.

    *not that the filler-cryers didn't, at the time, explode. They're like sodium elementals in a squirtgun fight.

  29. - Top - End - #119
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    Beholder

    Join Date
    Jul 2014

    Default Re: What plot twist most disappointed you?

    The reveal of Hels plan.

    After all that buildup with Hel and Greg the reveal:

    Behold, my evil masterplan ist to: cast a vote!
    (in an election not planned or initiated by me in which I had the right to vote anyway. Also my plan requires a tie between the rest of the votes that I actually could not influence and had a probability of about 18.5% of occuring. And it depends on very large set of rules also not designed by me that you dont know about so far, that very specifically allows me to do what I want do to and forbids most of the things to stop me)

    was quite underwhelming.

  30. - Top - End - #120
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Goblin_Priest's Avatar

    Join Date
    Sep 2015

    Default Re: What plot twist most disappointed you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Myta View Post
    The reveal of Hels plan.

    After all that buildup with Hel and Greg the reveal:

    Behold, my evil masterplan ist to: cast a vote!
    (in an election not planned or initiated by me in which I had the right to vote anyway. Also my plan requires a tie between the rest of the votes that I actually could not influence and had a probability of about 18.5% of occuring. And it depends on very large set of rules also not designed by me that you dont know about so far, that very specifically allows me to do what I want do to and forbids most of the things to stop me)

    was quite underwhelming.
    When you put it that way... PREQUELS!

    That said there wasn't supposed to be a tie, one of the deities bailed on her.

    Also, I never had issues with politics being plot points. :P
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