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    Default Re: How would you, as a religious cleric, write your thesis?

    Quote Originally Posted by KorvinStarmast View Post
    Who said that Durkon has to actually take a hostage? The point is the message, and to get Red Cloak's attention such that they meet.
    My problem with this is that, either way, by taking this approach Durkon is ramping up Redcloak's hostility towards him without necessarily needing to. Durkon likely already has enough information to get Redcloak to listen to him, if he plays his cards right. He doesn't need to antagonize the goblin high priest, which, ceteris paribus, will make diplomacy harder once the meeting occurs.
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    Default Re: How would you, as a religious cleric, write your thesis?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    (This does assume that this hypothetical cleric has access to knowledge from both RC's plan and Thor's at the same time, something no-one in OotS currently has, to the best of my recollection)

    Grey Wolf
    Durkon does: Panel 8. And given he and Minrah considered "TDO survives" a positive outcome almost immediately, I'd be surprised if he didn't realize Redcloak does.

    EDIT: Question regarding the the thread title: are there non-religious DnD Clerics? Besides poor roleplaying, I mean.
    Last edited by Fyraltari; 2019-05-08 at 02:37 PM.
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    Default Re: How would you, as a religious cleric, write your thesis?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    Question regarding the the thread title: are there non-religious DnD Clerics? Besides poor roleplaying, I mean.
    Probably not, since even the clerics of a "cause," like the stone-worshipping cult we just saw, have something that they revere. It would be theoretically possible to have an atheistic cleric (and I'm sure some people have played just such a character over the years), but since said cleric would have to dedicate him or herself to something in order to receive spells and other clerical abilities, even that person would have a religion of sorts.

    I... guess you could lose your faith, and cease to be religious, but still retain all of your cleric levels? It'd be pretty bad, though, since you'd no longer have access to most of your class abilities. All you'd have left would be the basics, like your hit points, saving throw bonuses, armor and shield proficiencies, proficiency in simple weapons, skill ranks, and maybe some feats. Could be an interesting roleplaying challenge, but your effectiveness as an adventurer would be close to nil.
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    Default Re: How would you, as a religious cleric, write your thesis?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    Durkon does: Panel 8. And given he and Minrah considered "TDO survives" a positive outcome almost immediately, I'd be surprised if he didn't realize Redcloak does.
    That only shows that Durkon is aware of the danger to tDO. Not that he is aware that the plan counts world destruction as a victory. Thus, he might not think to highlight that in a sending.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    EDIT: Question regarding the the thread title: are there non-religious DnD Clerics? Besides poor roleplaying, I mean.
    It comes down to how you define religion (which I won't go into, for obvious reasons), but by some definitions, the clerics of the Stone don't have a religion since they don't worship a god.

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    Quote Originally Posted by woweedd View Post
    I would say that's the dumbest theory Grey Wolf's heard, but, let's be honest: It's Grey Wolf. They've probably heard dumber theories today. Point is, neat idea, but it's a real stretch.
    Ceterum autem censeo Hilgya malefica est

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    Default Re: How would you, as a religious cleric, write your thesis?

    Quote Originally Posted by Emanick View Post
    Probably not, since even the clerics of a "cause," like the stone-worshipping cult we just saw, have something that they revere. It would be theoretically possible to have an atheistic cleric (and I'm sure some people have played just such a character over the years), but since said cleric would have to dedicate him or herself to something in order to receive spells and other clerical abilities, even that person would have a religion of sorts.

    I... guess you could lose your faith, and cease to be religious, but still retain all of your cleric levels? It'd be pretty bad, though, since you'd no longer have access to most of your class abilities. All you'd have left would be the basics, like your hit points, saving throw bonuses, armor and shield proficiencies, proficiency in simple weapons, skill ranks, and maybe some feats. Could be an interesting roleplaying challenge, but your effectiveness as an adventurer would be close to nil.
    Okay.
    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    That only shows that Durkon is aware of the danger to tDO. Not that he is aware that the plan counts world destruction as a victory. Thus, he might not think to highlight that in a sending.
    Fair enough.



    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    It comes down to how you define religion (which I won't go into, for obvious reasons), but by some definitions, the clerics of the Stone don't have a religion since they don't worship a god.

    Grey Wolf
    Well the one definition by Merriam Webster that includes God also accepts the supernatural instead so while the Creeders of the Stone are atheistic I don't think one can count them as areligious.
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    Default Re: How would you, as a religious cleric, write your thesis?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    Well the one definition by Merriam Webster that includes God also accepts the supernatural instead so while the Creeders of the Stone are atheistic I don't think one can count them as areligious.
    And I agree, but I can see how others might not - including the idea that stones are supernatural.

    But dangerous topic, and one were I'd be defending a position I don't myself hold, so I wouldn't do a great job of it. Best I can hope for is for you to glimpse where the argument would lie. But I can't sell it to you, and it'd probably be against forum rules even if I could.

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    Quote Originally Posted by woweedd View Post
    I would say that's the dumbest theory Grey Wolf's heard, but, let's be honest: It's Grey Wolf. They've probably heard dumber theories today. Point is, neat idea, but it's a real stretch.
    Ceterum autem censeo Hilgya malefica est

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    Default Re: How would you, as a religious cleric, write your thesis?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    And I agree, but I can see how others might not - including the idea that stones are supernatural.

    But dangerous topic, and one were I'd be defending a position I don't myself hold, so I wouldn't do a great job of it. Best I can hope for is for you to glimpse where the argument would lie. But I can't sell it to you, and it'd probably be against forum rules even if I could.

    Grey Wolf
    They don't worship stones, though. They worship the Elemental Earth, and elementals are magic and therefore supernatural. Well, magic is natural is this universe, so the Elemantals aren't any more supernaturals than the Elves, gods, undeads and giant-strong human anyway.
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    Default Re: How would you, as a religious cleric, write your thesis?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vinyadan View Post
    OK, let's make another try (starting from Korvin's version).

    Redcloak! Blackmail speaking. TDO plan fail; gods boutta unmake world; TDO too young, no survive. Thor stops this if TDO helps. Worth talk details!


    "Blackmail" was a joke about Redcloak's name.
    So the message is, "Redcloak! Redcloak here."?
    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    It comes down to how you define religion (which I won't go into, for obvious reasons)

    Grey Wolf
    Pish tosh, we can certainly go into it as for how it relates to D&D. For instance, one definition of religion could be "has skill points in Knowledge (Religion)," or "lists a deity on their character sheet." The first would have the Creed of Stone being very religious, the second would have them being not religious at all. Me, though, I'd just define it as "if you asked the character if they were religious, how would they respond?" and call it a day. Imean, sure, they could lie, but that can be dealt with like any other sort of lie if needed.
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    Default Re: How would you, as a religious cleric, write your thesis?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    Question regarding the the thread title: are there non-religious DnD Clerics? Besides poor roleplaying, I mean.
    As has been mentioned, it depends on how you look at it. Clerics, specifically, get magical powers through the strength of their devotion; so it's a question of where to draw the line on how much devotion constitutes a religion.

    There are also non-cleric classes that get cleric spells, through other means. Offhand....favored souls have an innate connection to a deity independent of any sort of belief; while ur-priests hate deities in general, and siphon/steal divine energy from them to power their own spells.

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    Default Re: How would you, as a religious cleric, write your thesis?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jasdoif View Post
    while ur-priests hate deities in general, and siphon/steal divine energy from them to power their own spells.
    You're telling me there's a class who's entire concept is to piss the most powerful being around off? Gottat be brave to start with this at level 1.
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    Default Re: How would you, as a religious cleric, write your thesis?

    Also, one of the points is to split RC away from Xykon. The melee option doesn't necessarily work because you'd have to defeat Xykon to be in such proximity, which opens another can of worms. The Sending really is convenient here in that Redcloak, and only Redcloak, can get clued in to Thor's infodump without Xykon catching it at all.

    in short: #makelovenotwar (in-context)

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    Default Re: How would you, as a religious cleric, write your thesis?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    You're telling me there's a class who's entire concept is to piss the most powerful being around off? Gottat be brave to start with this at level 1.
    It's easy to be brave if you have a massively overpowered built at level 1. Ur-priest is a prestige class, you need specific pre-reqs to take it that'll require at least a few levels.
    Last edited by Peelee; 2019-05-08 at 03:53 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heksefatter View Post
    All hail the dragon.

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    Default Re: How would you, as a religious cleric, write your thesis?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    So the message is, "Redcloak! Redcloak here."?
    No, it's because Redcloak's name is made up of colour + clothing, and it doesn't sound like it's his real name*, so, when you contact him, you may as well use a pseudonym that is built the same way.

    *I would assume that it isn't his real name because he is wearing a red cloak. Otherwise, it could be something like Thundershield.
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    Default Re: How would you, as a religious cleric, write your thesis?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vinyadan View Post
    No, it's because Redcloak's name is made up of colour + clothing, and it doesn't sound like it's his real name*, so, when you contact him, you may as well use a pseudonym that is built the same way.
    Dang, I should have gotten that way before you ELI5ing it to me. Which, bytheway, I totally appreciate!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heksefatter View Post
    All hail the dragon.

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    Default Re: How would you, as a religious cleric, write your thesis?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vinyadan View Post
    No, it's because Redcloak's name is made up of colour + clothing, and it doesn't sound like it's his real name*, so, when you contact him, you may as well use a pseudonym that is built the same way.

    *I would assume that it isn't his real name because he is wearing a red cloak. Otherwise, it could be something like Thundershield.
    Indeed, Start of Darkness reveals why he chose to be called that.
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    Because he wears black armor.
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    Default Re: How would you, as a religious cleric, write your thesis?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    Indeed, Start of Darkness reveals why he chose to be called that.
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    Because he wears black armor.
    Spoiler: Reminds me of one of the best lines in film
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    Also probably the only clip I could embed without breaking the forum filter rules.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heksefatter View Post
    All hail the dragon.

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    Default Re: How would you, as a religious cleric, write your thesis?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Spoiler: Reminds me of one of the best lines in film
    Show


    Also probably the only clip I could embed without breaking the forum filter rules.
    Heh, I just posted Miron Shewdanker in the Trivia thread, and someone responded "Why is he called Shewdanker"
    and the response was
    "...because he danks shews, Avi"
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    Default Re: How would you, as a religious cleric, write your thesis?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lvl45DM! View Post
    Heh, I just posted Miron Shewdanker in the Trivia thread, and someone responded "Why is he called Shewdanker"
    and the response was
    "...because he danks shews, Avi"
    Yes, I am a bit of a one-trick pony.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heksefatter View Post
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    Default Re: How would you, as a religious cleric, write your thesis?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    It comes down to how you define religion (which I won't go into, for obvious reasons), but by some definitions, the clerics of the Stone don't have a religion since they don't worship a god.
    D&D 5e gets around that in the DMG, pages 10-13, where a cleric or paladin can serve a Force or a Philosophy as the conduit to divine casting abilities. Yes, I know that's not very OT for a 3.5e based comic, but it's a way to avoid the religion topic ... which I usually defined to my students this way: faith is personal, while religion is a collective endeavour. (Yes, I used the Brit spelling on purpose, and I think I stayed withing guidelines?).
    Last edited by KorvinStarmast; 2019-05-08 at 08:34 PM.
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    Default Re: How would you, as a religious cleric, write your thesis?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jasdoif View Post
    There are also non-cleric classes that get cleric spells, through other means. Offhand....favored souls have an innate connection to a deity independent of any sort of belief; while ur-priests hate deities in general, and siphon/steal divine energy from them to power their own spells.
    Does that mean that when gods are out of divine energy, they need to ask their Clerics to go into Ur base and starting killin Ur dudes?

    On the topic: Is it even possible for RC to stop Durkon from attempting to reach him via Sending? Furthermore, do you guys really think he would? It doesn't seem like a common tactic to need to defend against, and RC has plenty of reasons to not block sendings (Xykon does stuff, Gobohobbotopia is under attack, etc.).
    Last edited by Squire Doodad; 2019-05-08 at 08:43 PM.
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    Default Re: How would you, as a religious cleric, write your thesis?

    If Redcloak is currently under the effects of Cloister, Durkon can no more Send to him than Vaarsuvius could send to Haley during Don't Split the Party.
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    "The really unforgivable acts are committed by calm men in beautiful green silk rooms, who deal death wholesale, by the shipload, without lust, or anger, or desire, or any redeeming emotion to excuse them but cold fear of some pretended future. But the crimes they hope to prevent in the future are imaginary. The ones they commit in the present--they are real." --Aral Vorkosigan

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    This, in a nutshell.
    Yes, exactly.

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    Default Re: How would you, as a religious cleric, write your thesis?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kish View Post
    If Redcloak is currently under the effects of Cloister, Durkon can no more Send to him than Vaarsuvius could send to Haley during Don't Split the Party.
    Me in the third-to-last and penultimate panel.

    Well.

    Huh, that does communication more difficult.

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    Default Re: How would you, as a religious cleric, write your thesis?

    Quote Originally Posted by understatement View Post
    Also, one of the points is to split RC away from Xykon. The melee option doesn't necessarily work because you'd have to defeat Xykon to be in such proximity, which opens another can of worms. The Sending really is convenient here in that Redcloak, and only Redcloak, can get clued in to Thor's infodump without Xykon catching it at all.

    in short: #makelovenotwar (in-context)
    Your OP did not include that information.

    If the intent is to drift Redcloak away from Xykon, then the Sending I would make is:

    "Xykon shared Ritual. Backstabbing you. Vampire clerics of Hel have full plan for Snarl. My god offers parley by proxy with Dark One. Call back."

    Technically all is true or an educated guess at least. And Durkon already shown at Azure City prison that he is into Jedi-Truths when necessary.
    Last edited by The Pilgrim; 2019-05-09 at 03:58 AM.

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    Default Re: How would you, as a religious cleric, write your thesis?

    Quote Originally Posted by understatement View Post
    Me in the third-to-last and penultimate panel.

    Well.

    Huh, that does communication more difficult.
    Don't worry, you can always use Vaarsuvius's Spicy Messenger.
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    Default Re: How would you, as a religious cleric, write your thesis?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Pilgrim View Post
    Your OP did not include that information.

    If the intent is to drift Redcloak away from Xykon, then the Sending I would make is:

    "Xykon shared Ritual. Backstabbing you. Vampire clerics of Hel have full plan for Snarl. My god offers parley by proxy with Dark One. Call back."

    Technically all is true or an educated guess at least. And Durkon already shown at Azure City prison that he is into Jedi-Truths when necessary.
    I don’t follow, how would Durkon know Xykon knows even part of the Ritual and with whom has Xykon shared it? Tsukiko? Durkon doesn’t know that and Redclaok has already dealt with it. How is Xykon backstabbing Redcloak? And what do the vampires have to do with the Snarl? Their plan hinges on the Godsmoot not on Team Evil’s actions. Why would Redcloak even care about them?
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    Default Re: How would you, as a religious cleric, write your thesis?

    Dark One is in danger. Greenhilt got your niece. Halfling will tickle her with knife if you don't meet me in Firmament by tomorrow noon.
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    Default Re: How would you, as a religious cleric, write your thesis?

    Quote Originally Posted by martianmister View Post
    Dark One is in danger. Greenhilt got your niece. Halfling will tickle her with knife if you don't meet me in Firmament by tomorrow noon.
    Wouldn't meeting at Firmament possibly endanger the dwarves inside?

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    Default Re: How would you, as a religious cleric, write your thesis?

    Does anyone even know Redcloak has a niece?
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    Default Re: How would you, as a religious cleric, write your thesis?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    Question regarding the the thread title: are there non-religious DnD Clerics? Besides poor roleplaying, I mean.
    There's been a couple, yeah. (5th panel).
    I stand by my cross-canon-reference-gibberish.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    Does anyone even know Redcloak has a niece?
    Hm, Redcloak does.
    Honestly, I don't think that's been brought up in the online comics at all except for maybe a passing remark by Redcloak. And even then it would have been while everyone else is busy because the only place I can think of it happening would be maybe the war on Azure City or a discussion with Oona. Small chance that the ACUG knew about it from their poly-polymorph spy, but the odds of them feeling it important to tell Hinjo or the Order is fairly small.
    Last edited by Squire Doodad; 2019-05-19 at 11:56 AM.
    An explanation of why MitD being any larger than Huge is implausible.

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
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    Default Re: How would you, as a religious cleric, write your thesis?

    Quote Originally Posted by Squire Doodad View Post
    Hm, Redcloak does.
    Besides him, obviously.
    Quote Originally Posted by Squire Doodad View Post
    Honestly, I don't think that's been brought up in the online comics at all except for maybe a passing remark by Redcloak. And even then it would have been while everyone else is busy because the only place I can think of it happening would be maybe the war on Azure City or a discussion with Oona. Small chance that the ACUG knew about it from their poly-polymorph spy, but the odds of them feeling it important to tell Hinjo or the Order is fairly small.
    I don't see any context in which Redcloak would bring that up to anybody, nor do I remember it happening. Tsukikko, for example had no idea why calling him "Wrong Eye" riled him up.
    "Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced."
    Gehm's corollary to Clarke's Third Law



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