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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    HalflingPirate

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    Default Synthesis of 3-methylcyclohexa-1,3-diene from 3-bromocyclohexene?

    I need to start with 6 carbons or fewer, but heteroatoms are ok. 3-methylcyclohexa-1,3-diene is a component in what I'm actually trying to make.
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    Knaight's Avatar

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    Default Re: Synthesis of 3-methylcyclohexa-1,3-diene from 3-bromocyclohexene?

    At this point you're not asking about general concepts but about very specific problems (I'm going to assume homework, and not a take home test). Go see about tutors and the like, because even if people are particularly inclined to explain this here it calls for lots of electron attack diagrams and that's not happening.
    I would really like to see a game made by Obryn, Kurald Galain, and Knaight from these forums.

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    HalflingPirate

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    Default Re: Synthesis of 3-methylcyclohexa-1,3-diene from 3-bromocyclohexene?

    I wouldn't be asking here if I could do that... I only come here with these questions as a last resort.
    If you run pathfinder, please check this thread out.
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    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Synthesis of 3-methylcyclohexa-1,3-diene from 3-bromocyclohexene?

    Quote Originally Posted by MonkeySage View Post
    I wouldn't be asking here if I could do that... I only come here with these questions as a last resort.
    Here's the problem: the things that you've been asking here lately show that you're pretty confused and frustrated in one or more of your classes right now.

    This means that you probably have one or more previous topics that you're still fuzzy on and need to go back and really work on until you understand rather than just "get" well enough to stumble through the assigned problems on, because your lack of understanding of that thing means you're not able to connect the new things you're supposed to be learning about together into a larger system that actually makes sense. This means that each new thing you try to learn just sits there as a mystifying lump because you have no place to put it, and that you aren't actually building familiarity with the tools and methods that will let you progress in your field.

    Someone who understands the thing you're working on right now could show you exactly how to do it, but the point of the exercises you're being given isn't for you to get those specific answers following a recipe, it's for you to develop an understanding of how to select and use the tools and processes you are supposed to be learning about to find these types of answers as you need them later (and recognize what kinds of situations tend to be good places to use each tool or method). You will just be getting more and more in "intellectual debt" to yourself as you seek specific answers without that deeper understanding and more and more information goes by without you really being able to absorb it.

    You need to back up and find a tutor who can work with you to figure out where things stopped making sense and start trying to re-build your understanding from there. I spent a lot of time working with students who are similarly stuck in math as part of my Day Job, and it's not easy but it is definitely possible to keep working at it and get to the point where everything connects and makes sense again.

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    Eldan's Avatar

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    Default Re: Synthesis of 3-methylcyclohexa-1,3-diene from 3-bromocyclohexene?

    Why ask this here, instead of an actual chemistry forum? I mean, I know there's at least one chemist here, but why not ask for help from a place that has a few hundred actual chemists who do nothing except discuss chemistry?
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    Knaight's Avatar

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    Default Re: Synthesis of 3-methylcyclohexa-1,3-diene from 3-bromocyclohexene?

    Quote Originally Posted by Algeh View Post
    Here's the problem: the things that you've been asking here lately show that you're pretty confused and frustrated in one or more of your classes right now.

    This means that you probably have one or more previous topics that you're still fuzzy on and need to go back and really work on until you understand rather than just "get" well enough to stumble through the assigned problems on, because your lack of understanding of that thing means you're not able to connect the new things you're supposed to be learning about together into a larger system that actually makes sense. This means that each new thing you try to learn just sits there as a mystifying lump because you have no place to put it, and that you aren't actually building familiarity with the tools and methods that will let you progress in your field.
    Exactly this. You should be able to look at the problem and at least have some idea how you might approach it, even if you don't know the specifics. For instance (and it's been years since I've done O-Chem), even with my faded familiarity I can look at this particular problem and at least see enough to understand what sort of reactions I'm probably looking for.

    So, you've got 3-bromocyclohexene, and you want 3-methyl cychohexa-1,3-diene. Looking at that immediately, I see a few things. You've already got one of the double bonds you need, and the other double bond you want is in a pretty convenient position. You also want to add a carbon to where you already have a bromine. So, first point of info you should have - if you've got one functional group somewhere you can usually mess with it until you get another functional group. Similarly there are ways to go between functional groups and double bonds.

    So find your textbook, and see what functional group to double bond reactions you know. See what carbon addition reactions you know (my first instinct is to look at that bromine and immediately think Grignard, but I honestly couldn't tell you without busting out my own textbook). Look at your tools, figure it out.

    Still, to even do that there are things you need to know. You need to be able to look at a problem and identify opportunities (that bromine right there in the reactant, right by both your double bond and the methyl group you need), and you need enough idea of how your tools work to know what to look for.
    I would really like to see a game made by Obryn, Kurald Galain, and Knaight from these forums.

    I'm not joking one bit. I would buy the hell out of that.
    -- ChubbyRain

    Current Design Project: Legacy, a game of masters and apprentices for two players and a GM.

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    Default Re: Synthesis of 3-methylcyclohexa-1,3-diene from 3-bromocyclohexene?

    I wish this was a click bait as seeing that question in rpg forum made me chuckle hard( as writing this i am still chuckling).
    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Shadow View Post
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