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    Default Re: Trafficking with the Genies: a Sha'ir Handbook

    Since a Sha'ir does not prepare spells and is not a spontaneous spellcaster, it appears to be immune to Spellthief.

    When a gen uses Elemental Travel, it apparently(??) does not suffer any off-target error? Yet you have to read the Sha'ir description to understand this...

    An enemy could use planar binding to wipe out a Sha'ir's ability to retrieve spells.
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    Default Re: Trafficking with the Genies: a Sha'ir Handbook

    Sha'ir/Spellthief actualy makes for a kinda interesting flavor.

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    Default Re: Trafficking with the Genies: a Sha'ir Handbook

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalkra View Post
    Sha'ir/Spellthief actualy makes for a kinda interesting flavor.
    Any idea for such a PC, besides cha-synergy, trickster variant, master spellthief and potential theurge entry?

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    Default Re: Trafficking with the Genies: a Sha'ir Handbook

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthrowhale View Post
    Since a Sha'ir does not prepare spells and is not a spontaneous spellcaster, it appears to be immune to Spellthief.
    Noted; an interesting curiosity, although it won't come useful very often.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthrowhale View Post
    When a gen uses Elemental Travel, it apparently(??) does not suffer any off-target error? Yet you have to read the Sha'ir description to understand this...
    Already explained in the gen's section; AD&D had in a splatbook an entire chapter dedicated to the gen's fluff and mechanics, where these details were thoroughly explained. The gen always planeshifts back to you, precisely at 3 m distance.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthrowhale View Post
    An enemy could use planar binding to wipe out a Sha'ir's ability to retrieve spells
    True, but you could prevent it by hiding your gen's "proper name" somehow. Then a divination/abjuration war would start, I guess.
    Last edited by Kaleph; 2019-05-11 at 08:34 AM.

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    Default Re: Trafficking with the Genies: a Sha'ir Handbook

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleph View Post
    Any idea for such a PC, besides cha-synergy, trickster variant, master spellthief and potential theurge entry?
    ...That was my idea. I feel like I got super-ninja'd.

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    Default Re: Trafficking with the Genies: a Sha'ir Handbook

    Revision 1 published:
    1. Typos and formatting errors corrected
    2. Pictures added
    3. Suggestions by commenters incorporated (details under "credits")
    4. Sub-sections "Combos" and "Other builds" added
    5. Sub-section "controversial aspects" heavily expanded and modified
    6. Minor re-organization and updates


    Enjoy! And thanx again to all the commenters!

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    Default Re: Trafficking with the Genies: a Sha'ir Handbook

    Nice pictures. Also, doesn't Singer of Concordance require the dragonblood subtype? Don't see where that comes from in the sample build.

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    Default Re: Trafficking with the Genies: a Sha'ir Handbook

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalkra View Post
    Nice pictures.
    Thank you; hopefully I'm not the only one so old to know "I dream of Jeannie".


    Quote Originally Posted by Kalkra View Post
    Also, doesn't Singer of Concordance require the dragonblood subtype? Don't see where that comes from in the sample build.
    I guess I had silverbrow human in mind, I'll specify that.

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    Default Re: Trafficking with the Genies: a Sha'ir Handbook

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleph View Post
    Thank you; hopefully I'm not the only one so old to know "I dream of Jeannie".
    I'm ashamed to admit that the comparison never even occurred to me. Also, what's the thing with the dancing from?

    EDIT: I just realized that Sha'irs are now contractually obligated to use Stephen Foster's "Jeanie with the Light Brown Hair" as their theme song.
    Last edited by Kalkra; 2019-05-16 at 02:59 PM.

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    Default Re: Trafficking with the Genies: a Sha'ir Handbook

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalkra View Post
    I'm ashamed to admit that the comparison never even occurred to me. Also, what's the thing with the dancing from?
    The Clash, rock the casbah.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalkra View Post
    EDIT: I just realized that Sha'irs are now contractually obligated to use Stephen Foster's "Jeanie with the Light Brown Hair" as their theme song.
    Oh, I cannot imagine a sha'ir getting on stage without this song
    Ok, also Jean Jeanie and the entire Aladdin Sane would be appropriate...
    Last edited by Kaleph; 2019-05-16 at 04:46 PM.

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    Default Re: Trafficking with the Genies: a Sha'ir Handbook

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleph View Post
    The Clash, rock the casbah.


    Oh, I cannot imagine a sha'ir getting on stage without this song
    Ok, also Jean Jeanie and the entire Aladdin Sane would be appropriate...
    In case you're for some reason not familiar with parlor songs from the 19th century, the first words of "Jeanie with the Light Brown Hair" are "I dream of Jeanie with the...". I'm assuming that the TV show was named after the song, although Wikipedia didn't seem to say so.
    Last edited by Kalkra; 2019-05-16 at 04:58 PM.

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    Default Re: Trafficking with the Genies: a Sha'ir Handbook

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalkra View Post
    In case you're for some reason not familiar with parlor songs from the 19th century, the first words of "Jeanie with the Light Brown Hair" are "I dream of Jeanie with the...". I'm assuming that the TV show was named after the song, although Wikipedia didn't seem to say so.
    I confess I'm unfamiliar with parlor Songs from the 19th century...

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    Default Re: Trafficking with the Genies: a Sha'ir Handbook

    I really like Ordained Champion 3 for Sha'ir gishes, since the Sor/Wiz list has a lot of solid stuff to channel. You need a Cleric dip or Southern Magician to qualify, and Southern Magician means entering late or some sort of shenanigan (I like Human Paragon 2 or Marshal 1 with Skill Focus (Diplomacy) already taken), to be able to take both Weapon Focus and Southern Magician by level 4.

    Also Zhentarim Skymage is really good on a Cha-based caster. It has pretty significant feat taxes, but it gives a bunch of potentially worthwhile feats in return, as well as a Skill Focus which can be Diplomacy, which is a bit more appealing on a Sha'ir.

    Here's a stub for a mounted Sha'ir gish based around Ordained Champion and Zhentarim Skymage, using Whirling Blade to leverage mounted charge rules. The full thread has a more complete discussion of what exactly is going on.

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    Default Re: Trafficking with the Genies: a Sha'ir Handbook

    Quote Originally Posted by WhamBamSam View Post
    I really like Ordained Champion 3 for Sha'ir gishes, since the Sor/Wiz list has a lot of solid stuff to channel. You need a Cleric dip or Southern Magician to qualify, and Southern Magician means entering late or some sort of shenanigan (I like Human Paragon 2 or Marshal 1 with Skill Focus (Diplomacy) already taken), to be able to take both Weapon Focus and Southern Magician by level 4.

    Also Zhentarim Skymage is really good on a Cha-based caster. It has pretty significant feat taxes, but it gives a bunch of potentially worthwhile feats in return, as well as a Skill Focus which can be Diplomacy, which is a bit more appealing on a Sha'ir.

    Here's a stub for a mounted Sha'ir gish based around Ordained Champion and Zhentarim Skymage, using Whirling Blade to leverage mounted charge rules. The full thread has a more complete discussion of what exactly is going on.
    Thank you for the advice; going to add you stub to the build section. That's really...creative, I have to say!

    I originally skipped the zhent skymage due to the steep requirements, but charisma-synergy is a thing.

    I am personally an opposer of the ordained champion. I'm not able to force myself to like it. It also seems that it loses some benefit with a sha'ir entry. Am I overlooking something?

    BTW I'm also considering the knight of thorns as a sensible PrC. Has anyone any experience with the class?

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    Default Re: Trafficking with the Genies: a Sha'ir Handbook

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleph View Post
    Thank you for the advice; going to add you stub to the build section. That's really...creative, I have to say!
    You're welcome, I'm glad you liked it.

    On reflection, I've realized to my embarrassment that it's not actually proficient with any martial weapons (including the requisite razored shield) as written unless your DM lets you worship an ideal with some sort of shield as favored weapon (the Dark Six have the exotic Kama as their favored weapon). I guess you could give up the Wrath Domain to pick a more suitable war deity. I hate to lose Rhino's Rush, but maybe you can work something out with the bonus scrolls and crafting feats. Since you want an Aptitude Shield anyway, you could also dip Ruathar and have the Weapon Proficiency feat apply to the shield. You could also dip Warblade or something without losing 9ths. There's probably a more elegant fix that I'm just not considering at the moment. In any case other than just dipping a martial class, the Spellsword dip is gonna have to go, as you're not going to manage proficiency in all martial weapons, but the build doesn't care all that much about BAB, so that's not a huge deal.

    I originally skipped the zhent skymage due to the steep requirements, but charisma-synergy is a thing.
    In the build I gave, it's actually net +1 feat (needs Mounted Combat anyway and needs Ride-By Attack, Spirited Charge, and a metamagic feat as a prereq for Sculpt Spell), and Combat Casting is pulling double duty getting us into Abjurant Champion. Also, under a nice DM, you can pay the Iron Will requirement with money by way of the Otyugh Hole.

    I am personally an opposer of the ordained champion. I'm not able to force myself to like it. It also seems that it loses some benefit with a sha'ir entry. Am I overlooking something?
    I mostly just like having access to the Sor/Wiz list for Channeled Spells. If entering with a Cleric dip you get most of the goodies as normal while still progressing Sha'ir. The build I gave also really likes having Channel Spell, as being mounted on an intelligent mount means it always has a move action free, so it's basically an extra spell per round.

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    Default Re: Trafficking with the Genies: a Sha'ir Handbook

    Quote Originally Posted by WhamBamSam View Post
    You're welcome, I'm glad you liked it.

    On reflection, I've realized to my embarrassment that it's not actually proficient with any martial weapons (including the requisite razored shield) as written unless your DM lets you worship an ideal with some sort of shield as favored weapon (the Dark Six have the exotic Kama as their favored weapon). I guess you could give up the Wrath Domain to pick a more suitable war deity. I hate to lose Rhino's Rush, but maybe you can work something out with the bonus scrolls and crafting feats. Since you want an Aptitude Shield anyway, you could also dip Ruathar and have the Weapon Proficiency feat apply to the shield. You could also dip Warblade or something without losing 9ths. There's probably a more elegant fix that I'm just not considering at the moment. In any case other than just dipping a martial class, the Spellsword dip is gonna have to go, as you're not going to manage proficiency in all martial weapons, but the build doesn't care all that much about BAB, so that's not a huge deal.
    You could be an Outsider and grab the proficiencies that way.

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    Default Re: Trafficking with the Genies: a Sha'ir Handbook

    Quote Originally Posted by TalonOfAnathrax View Post
    You could be an Outsider and grab the proficiencies that way.
    Yep, I wanted to suggest the same. Neraphim or otherwordly would work, although for the latter the celestial-attended background could create conflicts with the zhent skymage.

    EDIT: I guess that iron will through otygh hole is nodded by many masters...

    Anyhow there's also the problem that cloistered cleric loses medium and heavy armor proficiencies, which are a pre'q for spellsword. A sha'ir could get them back somehow, e.g. through harper priest, but it's complicated to qualify and to slip it into the build. The easiest way is to swap cloistered with vanilla cleric, as I believe that the knowledge domain won't help too much.

    Since I play (and I recommend to play) with fractional BAB, ruathar could replace the spellsword without a loss of BAB (if my math is correct).
    Last edited by Kaleph; 2019-05-18 at 05:45 AM.

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    Default Re: Trafficking with the Genies: a Sha'ir Handbook

    Being Otherworldly or Neraphim costs a feat relative to a standard human. Similarly, the Knowledge Domain power is being traded for a Fighter Bonus Feat by Abjurant Champion. So both of those are problematic unless you can use flaws and/or get Iron Will from the Otyugh Hole.

    BAB isn't actually terribly important, since the build doesn't care about iterative attacks, is using Cha on the attack roll with Whirling Blade, and has access to Wraithstrike. Even without fractional BAB, dropping Spellsword to squeeze in a level of Ruathar somewhere. Proficiency in shields is necessary for Improved Shield Bash, however, so at least that issue has to be dealt with.

    Going standard Cleric with Iron Will from the Otyugh Hole and dropping Spellsword to squeeze Ruathar in somewhere seems to work.

    Do Gen Familiars give Alertness? If so, it's actually pretty easy to squeeze into Harper Priest.

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    Default Re: Trafficking with the Genies: a Sha'ir Handbook

    To be honest I'm a huge fan of fluff-casters. Stuff like the Wu Jen, where you get those neat little bits of filler, like the Wu Jen's taboos, the Flux Adept's entire list of class features, or the Alienist's Alienistness, and the Sha'ir was a class that I always knew I'd love if I ever understood it, but every time I'd look at it I'd think "This is hard. I give up"

    Thankfully, you've gone through and done all the understanding for me so while it's still a hard class at least I understand what it does now. I'll likely now spend the next week looking through some neat tricks for it to do. I remember seeing something that I though was great for divine casting abuse in Frostburn the other day while I was looking for the Branta entry to see if they can be used as mounts. (Unfortunately they can't)

    Edit: If there's a wizard in the party it seems like it'd be an excellent idea to mooch off of them. "Can you cast that just one more time please?"

    Also that spellfire feat might actually not be that terrible of an idea for a Sha'ir, if you can suck up the enemy caster's spells, and learn them at the same time.

    I also just had an idea for a Sha'ir leading a college of casters, in order to rank up they have to cast some obscure spell several times in front of the Sha'ir, but little do they know he's just making them teach him spells he thinks might be cool.
    Last edited by ekarney; 2019-05-18 at 10:42 AM.
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    Default Re: Trafficking with the Genies: a Sha'ir Handbook

    Quote Originally Posted by WhamBamSam View Post
    Being Otherworldly or Neraphim costs a feat relative to a standard human. Similarly, the Knowledge Domain power is being traded for a Fighter Bonus Feat by Abjurant Champion. So both of those are problematic unless you can use flaws and/or get Iron Will from the Otyugh Hole.
    Yes, I was assuming Otyugh hole, but now I see that you still miss a feat without the Knowledge Domain.

    Quote Originally Posted by WhamBamSam View Post
    BAB isn't actually terribly important, since the build doesn't care about iterative attacks, is using Cha on the attack roll with Whirling Blade, and has access to Wraithstrike. Even without fractional BAB, dropping Spellsword to squeeze in a level of Ruathar somewhere. Proficiency in shields is necessary for Improved Shield Bash, however, so at least that issue has to be dealt with.

    Going standard Cleric with Iron Will from the Otyugh Hole and dropping Spellsword to squeeze Ruathar in somewhere seems to work.
    Yep, so everything seems to work.

    Quote Originally Posted by WhamBamSam View Post
    Do Gen Familiars give Alertness? If so, it's actually pretty easy to squeeze into Harper Priest.
    Gen familiar do give alertness. Actually, they work exactly the same as a familiar but for two details: their Int doesn't increase, and they don't grant you any special ability (like +2 Fortitude). Anyhow the annoying requirements of the harper priests are: Bluff 4 ranks, Diplomacy 8 ranks, Knowledge (local) 4 ranks, Perform 5 ranks, Sense Motive 2 ranks, Survival 2 ranks. I don't believe it's feasible - where do you steal those ranks in perform? The zhentarim skymage has already weird pre'qs.

    Can you post a "fixed" revision of the build, possibly with some very basic explanation? That would be very sweet.
    Otherwise I'll do it (and credit you, of course).

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    Default Re: Trafficking with the Genies: a Sha'ir Handbook

    Quote Originally Posted by ekarney View Post
    To be honest I'm a huge fan of fluff-casters. Stuff like the Wu Jen, where you get those neat little bits of filler, like the Wu Jen's taboos, the Flux Adept's entire list of class features, or the Alienist's Alienistness, and the Sha'ir was a class that I always knew I'd love if I ever understood it, but every time I'd look at it I'd think "This is hard. I give up"

    Thankfully, you've gone through and done all the understanding for me so while it's still a hard class at least I understand what it does now.
    Quote Originally Posted by ekarney View Post
    I'll likely now spend the next week looking through some neat tricks for it to do.
    If you want, I have some finished builds already on excel. Automatization to a certain degree is a key to the class (unfortunately).

    Thank you; this was exactly the purpose of this handbook. It took me a HUGE amount of time to figure out a way the class would work and, once I was done, I guessed it would have been nice if I had written it down for other players - so that they wouldn't need to start again from scratch.

    Quote Originally Posted by ekarney View Post
    I remember seeing something that I though was great for divine casting abuse in Frostburn the other day while I was looking for the Branta entry to see if they can be used as mounts. (Unfortunately they can't)
    What did you find exactly?

    Quote Originally Posted by ekarney View Post
    Edit: If there's a wizard in the party it seems like it'd be an excellent idea to mooch off of them. "Can you cast that just one more time please?"

    (…)

    I also just had an idea for a Sha'ir leading a college of casters, in order to rank up they have to cast some obscure spell several times in front of the Sha'ir, but little do they know he's just making them teach him spells he thinks might be cool.
    Uh, that would be quite an evolution, you know, you start scrounching sigarettes (or your next meal), and you find yourself scrounching spells. An interesting idea...

    Quote Originally Posted by ekarney View Post
    Also that spellfire feat might actually not be that terrible of an idea for a Sha'ir, if you can suck up the enemy caster's spells, and learn them at the same time.
    I've always found spellfire very ineffective - is there something I'm overlooking?
    Last edited by Kaleph; 2019-05-18 at 01:09 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleph View Post
    I've always found spellfire very ineffective - is there something I'm overlooking?
    I'm not ekarney, but if I'm understanding correctly, the idea is that since casting an unknown arcane spell requires that you've seen the effects of the spell in question (and identified it via Spellcraft), using Spellfire Wielder to absorb spells could be mildly synergistic with the concept of needing to see new spells.

    I like it on a thematic level. I don't think it really puts you in a significantly better position to encounter more spells than you otherwise would, especially since you arguably don't "see the effects of" an absorbed spell—the text indicates that you act as a rod of absorption, and the rod of absorption "nullifies the spell's effect." If it's nullified, you can't see the effects. (You can see the casting, perhaps, but not the effects.)

    Still, it's a neat thematic match. Has kind of a classic videogamey "blue mage" feel, with the idea being that you put yourself in the way of what might ordinarily be harmful magic and end up gaining new knowledge (particularly the ability to cast that very magic) as a result. I'd allow it as a GM even if I don't think it technically works as advertised by RAW.

    EDIT TO ADD: Unrelated: You've got an error in your racial section. Star elves aren't - DEX + CHA but rather - CON + CHA.

    Of course, you can go dragonborn and end up with a net of -2 DEX +2 CHA, but if you care about the star elf traits, you'd lose those. Though I will mention that the star elf entry in UE actually doesn't specify that they trance like PHB elves, nor does it say that they default to being like PHB elves unless stated otherwise, so maybe that whole entry can be rewritten.
    Last edited by Zaq; 2019-05-18 at 02:28 PM.
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    Default Re: Trafficking with the Genies: a Sha'ir Handbook

    Quote Originally Posted by Zaq View Post
    I'm not ekarney, but if I'm understanding correctly, the idea is that since casting an unknown arcane spell requires that you've seen the effects of the spell in question (and identified it via Spellcraft), using Spellfire Wielder to absorb spells could be mildly synergistic with the concept of needing to see new spells.

    I like it on a thematic level. I don't think it really puts you in a significantly better position to encounter more spells than you otherwise would, especially since you arguably don't "see the effects of" an absorbed spell—the text indicates that you act as a rod of absorption, and the rod of absorption "nullifies the spell's effect." If it's nullified, you can't see the effects. (You can see the casting, perhaps, but not the effects.)
    Yes, you're right - the spellfire's spell absorption would actually RAW reduce the number of spells I can learn from other spellcasters. Not that I would really count too much on this strategy to enlarge my spells' stock, anyhow.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zaq View Post
    Still, it's a neat thematic match. Has kind of a classic videogamey "blue mage" feel, with the idea being that you put yourself in the way of what might ordinarily be harmful magic and end up gaining new knowledge (particularly the ability to cast that very magic) as a result. I'd allow it as a GM even if I don't think it technically works as advertised by RAW.
    This houserule would be a no-brainer for me; I can also imagine that, if you somehow get the ability to cast a spell on the fly (through alacritous cogitation or whatever), it would be a cool twist if you then would cast the same spell against that very enemy on the subsequent round.

    "So, what were you trying to do? Lemme show you how it really works..."

    The real problems are the mechanics of spellfire. First, you need a prepared action - and the trick works only if the enemy casts a single-target spell against YOU. Otherwise the prepared action is wasted.
    Second, the number of spell levels you may absorb is limited by your constitution; typically you'll be able to absorb up to 6th level spells (which admittedly isn't THAT bad, considering that the campaigns I play end around level 12th-13th). Interesting enough, the feat COULD be more useful on some con-based class, such as DFA or totemist.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zaq View Post
    EDIT TO ADD: Unrelated: You've got an error in your racial section. Star elves aren't - DEX + CHA but rather - CON + CHA.

    Of course, you can go dragonborn and end up with a net of -2 DEX +2 CHA, but if you care about the star elf traits, you'd lose those.
    That was I typo, I guess. I'll correct it, thank you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zaq View Post
    Though I will mention that the star elf entry in UE actually doesn't specify that they trance like PHB elves, nor does it say that they default to being like PHB elves unless stated otherwise, so maybe that whole entry can be rewritten.
    That doesn't seem to be a big issue. The elf's meditation isn't described in the "racial traits" section, or - in other words - it's not a trait; this means that the sentence (which is here missing) "these traits are in addition to the high elf traits" doesn't make a difference. Star elves are an elf subrace, they get sleep immunity as well, and they're the ones that "most closely resemble moon elves". I see no issue here, but thank you for pointing it out.
    Last edited by Kaleph; 2019-05-18 at 03:32 PM.

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    Default Re: Trafficking with the Genies: a Sha'ir Handbook

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalkra View Post
    Sha'ir/Spellthief actualy makes for a kinda interesting flavor.
    Came here to post this as well. I just took my first level of Sha’ir on a Trickster Spellthief that I’m playing in a PBP right now.
    Very cool to see a Sha’ir handbook!
    Quote Originally Posted by Deeds View Post
    Caster backstories require a reason as to why they can cast spells. Wizards study hard to learn spells. Sorcerers often learn of their powers and then hone them through traveling. Clerics use piety to find the gift of spells through the gods or their ideals. Druids shun deodorant until a riding dog appears and they learn Entangle.
    Quote Originally Posted by Red Fel View Post
    Zom, my imaginary hat is off to you. *Horns? *What horns? *It's just an unusual hairstyle.
    Quote Originally Posted by Venger View Post
    There are certain advantages to a game being as badly written as 3.5.

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    Default Re: Trafficking with the Genies: a Sha'ir Handbook

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleph View Post
    Can you post a "fixed" revision of the build, possibly with some very basic explanation? That would be very sweet.
    Otherwise I'll do it (and credit you, of course).
    Here you go. Let me know if there's anything you'd like explained further. I'll also note that if you can be LG and a member of the Zhentarim (or if your DM lets you apply the Paladin variants to Prestige Paladin), then you can replace the Ruathar levels with Prestige Paladin 1/Spellsword 1/Sha'ir +1.

    Human Sha'ir 3/Cleric 1/Ordained Champion 3/Zhentarim Skymage 5/Ruathar 3/Abjurant Champion 5
    1. Sha'ir 1 - Combat Casting, Power Attack
    2. Sha'ir 2
    3. Cleric 1 (Death, War) - Improved Shield Bash, Weapon Focus, Death Devotion, Iron Will
    4. Sha'ir 3
    5. Ordained Champion 1 (Wrath) - Mounted Combat
    6. Ordained Champion 2 - Power Lunge, Diehard
    7. Ordained Champion 3
    8. Skymage 1
    9. Skymage 2 - Ride-By Attack, Shield Charge, Craft Wand
    10. Skymage 3 - Spell Focus
    11. Skymage 4 - Spirited Charge, Skill Focus (Diplomacy)
    12. Skymage 5 - Enlarge Spell, Sculpt Spell
    13. Ruathar 1 - MWP (Longsword)
    14. Abjurant Champion 1
    15. Abjurant Champion 2 - Shield Slam
    16. Abjurant Champion 3
    17. Abjurant Champion 4
    18. Abjurant Champion 5 - Open Feat
    19. Ruathar 2
    20. Ruathar 3

    Required Equipment: Aptitude Razored Shield - You need a slashing weapon for Whirling Blade and one that can be used for the Shield Charge and Shield Slam feats. Aptitude allows it to be wielded with proficiency with a different MWP feat, and RAW, probably allows it to gain the benefit of using Spirited Charge with a lance. Eventually you'd like it to be Valorous as well.

    Required Stats: You need 13 Str for Power Attack, and 14 Int to make skills work. Beyond that, the build is very Cha-SAD. Consider going Necropolitan to avoid worrying about Con.

    The rules for mounted charging are as follows.
    Quote Originally Posted by SRD
    If your mount charges, you also take the AC penalty associated with a charge. If you make an attack at the end of the charge, you receive the bonus gained from the charge. When charging on horseback, you deal double damage with a lance.
    So if your mount charges, any attack that you make is also a charge. Enter the Whirling Blade spell, which makes melee attacks against a bunch of enemies in a line, using your casting stat in place of strength. So the mount charges, you cast Whirling Blade, and get to make a bunch of attacks that count as charge attacks and therefore get the benefits of Power Lunge (with 2*Cha replacing the 2*Str), charge multipliers like Spirited Charge, Valorous, and Rhino's Rush, and the rider effects from Shield Charge/Shield Slam. Death Devotion (with plenty of turn attempts to fuel it) adds another nice little rider. Since the mount is doing the charging for you, you're only using a standard action, and have a move action free for Channel Spell to add a targeted spell to one of the attacks. Sha'ir is the best base for this, because it's a Cha-based caster with access to the Sor/Wiz list, and counts as both arcane and divine, so we can use Ordained Champion's Channel Spell and Zhentarim Skymage for its fancy mount.
    Last edited by WhamBamSam; 2019-05-19 at 08:30 AM.

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    Default Re: Trafficking with the Genies: a Sha'ir Handbook

    Quote Originally Posted by WhamBamSam View Post
    Here you go.
    You. Are. Sweet.

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    Default Re: Trafficking with the Genies: a Sha'ir Handbook

    Hm. My wizard character is 'dead' and I'm temporarily playing a stupidly strong War Hulk with emphasis on Hulking out via Goliath shenanigans, this guide may be of use for my next character, based on Jafar.

    Hm.

    Thinking Sha'ir10/Sand Shaper 6/Shaper of Form 1 so far... maybe ruathar for filler after that?

    Sha'ir mainly for the spell mechanic of retrieving spells. That's fascinating, turning obtaining spells into a matter of time, not money. Sand Shaper mainly because I like the sand constructs. Shaper of Form so I'm never without sand, plus in a pinch can alter people's nonmagic items into similar equivalent items.

    Sadly yeah it does look like what you get out of Sha'ir does peter out after 7.

    Kinda curious how Sha'ir work with Scribe Scroll. It fits with the idea of an arabic sorcerer archetype, holy texts and all that, but the ability to take notes based on all the spells ever if given time seems like one should never give a Sha'ir time to start scribing.

    From memory, wasn't there a risk in the AD&D version where getting divine magic lead to gods being 'interested' in you and putting obstacles in your way? Since you're sending your gen to steal the spells they're sending to their clerics en route. Shame that never got ported across properly as a mechanic, that'd be kinda cool.
    Last edited by Malphegor; 2019-05-26 at 08:19 AM.
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    Default Re: Trafficking with the Genies: a Sha'ir Handbook

    Quote Originally Posted by Malphegor View Post
    Hm. My wizard character is 'dead' and I'm temporarily playing a stupidly strong War Hulk with emphasis on Hulking out via Goliath shenanigans, this guide may be of use for my next character, based on Jafar.

    Hm.

    Thinking Sha'ir10/Sand Shaper 6/Shaper of Form 1 so far... maybe ruathar for filler after that?

    Sha'ir mainly for the spell mechanic of retrieving spells. That's fascinating, turning obtaining spells into a matter of time, not money. Sand Shaper mainly because I like the sand constructs. Shaper of Form so I'm never without sand, plus in a pinch can alter people's nonmagic items into similar equivalent items.
    Shaper of sand? Cool PrC; the only reason I haven't listed it, is that I've the prejudice that it's primarily a sorcerer's PrC. But anyhow. I'd try to enter Sand Shaper earlier, and get also two levels of geomancer - to have survival as a class skill, and desert as favored terrain. Also, for knowledge religion, I'd make good use of the apprentice feat. As a filler I'd use again geomancer.


    Quote Originally Posted by Malphegor View Post
    Sadly yeah it does look like what you get out of Sha'ir does peter out after 7.
    I'm gonna post some homebrewed sha'ir versions, one of which tries to force you to stay longer in the class.


    Quote Originally Posted by Malphegor View Post
    Kinda curious how Sha'ir work with Scribe Scroll. It fits with the idea of an arabic sorcerer archetype, holy texts and all that, but the ability to take notes based on all the spells ever if given time seems like one should never give a Sha'ir time to start scribing.
    I guess I didn't get it; which advantage do you see?


    Quote Originally Posted by Malphegor View Post
    From memory, wasn't there a risk in the AD&D version where getting divine magic lead to gods being 'interested' in you and putting obstacles in your way? Since you're sending your gen to steal the spells they're sending to their clerics en route. Shame that never got ported across properly as a mechanic, that'd be kinda cool.
    You're not wrong, retrieving divine spells was dangerous in 2E; anyhow the complete sha'ir's spellcasting system was not functional at that time, since you could have only one spell retrieved at any time, it stayed in your mind only 3 turns (it actually took longer to retrieve one), and the chance of failure was pretty high. You did get more goodies from negotiations with geniekind - which were anyhow pretty much RP- and DM-dependant - since you could theoretically call an efreeti at level 9 (no wish granted), bind multiple genies in servitude at level 11, and factually get infinite wishes at level 13; still I ask myself if it really payed back the 8 levels when you just sucked.

    Coming back to Arabian Adventures, the brand has been given away by WotC to a fan-based website somewhere on the internet, they have multiple conversions of the sha'ir that stay very similar to its 2E cousin, including these ill effects when retrieving divine spells...
    Last edited by Kaleph; 2019-05-26 at 11:05 AM.

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    Default Re: Trafficking with the Genies: a Sha'ir Handbook

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleph View Post

    I guess I didn't get it; which advantage do you see?

    Ah wait the wording on scribe scroll breaks that. I was thinking a Sha'ir could scribe scrolls of their 'unknown' spells that they've identified (which would be huge), thus ensuring that given enough offtime they can just pile up a lot of spells in temporary form.
    However, Scribe scroll uses the sorcerer/wizard terminology of scribing a spell that you 'know', making it no better than it is in the hands of a regular wizard.
    Shoot.

    If you want a weird feat to add to this that fits thematically but is kind of useless and can't be used with the sha'ir as red a feat to add on as possible-

    Genie Lore, from Races of Faerun. +1 to the DC of any sorcerer spells of a specific elemental energy types chosen when you pick the feat, stacks with spell focus. (it specifically mentioning 'sorcerer' spells is what kills it for a sha'ir as is unless sha'irs using sorcerer/wizard spells qualifies them to use this, but since it's a genie-dealing class we're dealing with it's worth noting for weird sorcerer/sha'ir builds at least I guess.)
    Last edited by Malphegor; 2019-05-28 at 05:34 AM.
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    Default Re: Trafficking with the Genies: a Sha'ir Handbook

    Quote Originally Posted by Malphegor View Post
    Ah wait the wording on scribe scroll breaks that. I was thinking a Sha'ir could scribe scrolls of their 'unknown' spells that they've identified (which would be huge), thus ensuring that given enough offtime they can just pile up a lot of spells in temporary form.
    However, Scribe scroll uses the sorcerer/wizard terminology of scribing a spell that you 'know', making it no better than it is in the hands of a regular wizard.
    Shoot.
    That wouldn't make a huge difference anyhow; the spells that a sha'ir identifies (and therefore learns) are somehow similar (in number and cost) to those that a wizard adds to its handbook through scrolls.


    Quote Originally Posted by Malphegor View Post
    If you want a weird feat to add to this that fits thematically but is kind of useless and can't be used with the sha'ir as red a feat to add on as possible-

    Genie Lore, from Races of Faerun. +1 to the DC of any sorcerer spells of a specific elemental energy types chosen when you pick the feat, stacks with spell focus. (it specifically mentioning 'sorcerer' spells is what kills it for a sha'ir as is unless sha'irs using sorcerer/wizard spells qualifies them to use this, but since it's a genie-dealing class we're dealing with it's worth noting for weird sorcerer/sha'ir builds at least I guess.)
    Actually I went through several Faerun's splatbooks, and the calimite feats are perfect thematically; besides the one you mentioned, there's also "[fire/air] calish-ite elementalist" (CL boost to some spells, that you could learn for free) and "bloodline of fire" (you are the descended from an efreet and get +2 CL to fire spells). They aren't mechanically spectacular, and need some adaptation (sorcerer spells? Spellbook?), so at the end I decided not to list them. What I could do is list the calimite human in the list of recommended races, and in general mention that there are regional feats available.
    Last edited by Kaleph; 2019-05-28 at 09:08 AM.

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