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2019-05-10, 05:53 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2018
Sorcerer/Warlock Build Pros and Cons
I'm starting up a new campaign tomorrow and want to play a Sorcerer/Warlock multiclass. I'm not trying to abuse the coffeelock strategy.
I want to know the strengths and weaknesses of the levels of each class I could take. For example, what are the pros and cons of Sorcerer 6/Warlock 14? Sorcerer 14/Warlock 6? Sorcerer 10/Warlock 10? Any other combination?
If it matters, I am most likely going with Shadow Sorcerer (very small chance of Divine Soul) and either Hexblade or Undying for the Warlock (leaning more towards Hexblade).
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2019-05-10, 06:02 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2018
- Location
- Between SEA and PDX.
- Gender
Re: Sorcerer/Warlock Build Pros and Cons
Without going into ridiculous levels of detail here's what you need to know:
Warlocks' main value is the fact that they regain spell slots on a Short Rest. If you don't use those spell slots for some reason, then you're not getting any value out of Warlock levels. Many like to use Warlock levels to recharge other slots by using converting them into Sorcery Points. Abuse of this is what we call "Coffeelock".
Sorcerer's main value is the shear number of spell slots they have at their disposal. Because they get Sorcery Points whenever they level, and SP can be used to cast spells, they effectively have more spell slots than anyone else.
It's the difference of improving a battery's recharge rate vs. its capacity.
Because higher level spells are generally better than many low level spells, and you can't cast higher level spells if you're equal in both classes, it's best to keep one as a primary and one as a secondary, rather than making them both equals. Having them be equals will mean you'll have more spell slots overall, but you'll also have weaker spells.
More Warlock levels will mean more unique Warlock features, like invocations. You also get your Warlock capstone at level 14, which is often a big deal.
More Sorcerer levels will mean more high level spells, as well as your second-to-last Sorcerer subclass feature, which can be a big deal.
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The biggest deciding factor is determining how your DM plans on running his campaign. If you expect him to allow more than one Short Rest in the day, more Warlock levels will be in your favor. Otherwise, I'd prioritize Sorcerer.
5th Edition Homebrewery
Prestige Options, changing primary attributes to open a world of new multiclassing.
Adrenaline Surge, fitting Short Rests into combat to fix bosses/Short Rest Classes.
Pain, using Exhaustion to make tactical martial combatants.
Fate Sorcery, lucky winner of the 5e D&D Subclass Contest VII!
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2019-05-10, 06:17 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2018
Re: Sorcerer/Warlock Build Pros and Cons
Warlock 2 Sorc X
Strength - DPR for days. Agonizing Blast, Devil's Sight, Darkness, Eldritch Blast. You don't NEED other spells so it opens spell choice up.
Medium Armor and shield if Hexblade means decent AC
Weaknesses - Lowish utility it off combat. Spells open up a bit here, but you'll still want the classics like Fireball.
Low health
Even Split (11/9)
Strength - lots of utility options open.
Lots of cantrips
Lots of mid level spells.
Weaknesses - comes into it's best power 10+ towards the tail end of most campaigns.
No high level spells.
Warlock 5 Sorcerer 15
Melee abilites are better, ranged still an option. Eldritch Smite + Thirsting Blade + Improved Pact Weapon allows for decent damage. Then you Quicken a spell or cantrip on top.
Decent relatively consistent damage out put. Good burst potential.
Ranged smite! With a knock prone rider on HUGE or smaller. No save. (Must be made with pact weapon and can only use Warlock slots)
Cons
Not many smite slots, but short rest recharge.
No 9th level spells
Edit: I can provide more information on any of those level splits builds if you're interested. It might take a bit of time for a full write up though.Last edited by Galithar; 2019-05-10 at 06:19 PM.
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2019-05-10, 06:25 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2018
Re: Sorcerer/Warlock Build Pros and Cons
Apologies, but I forgot 2 other important points that might matter. For this build I intend to focus on debuffs and will be taking the Pact of the Tome.
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2019-05-10, 06:45 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2018
Re: Sorcerer/Warlock Build Pros and Cons
Take 3 levels of Warlock.
Take maddening hex (in case I have the wrong name the bonus action to deal damage around a cursed target) and Agonizing Blast.
Heighten Spell is good but mostly at higher levels. Take quicken for your EB or Twin to use a debuffing cantrip. Vicious Mockery with your Tome cantrips and Ray of Frost are my favorite for this.
I actually recommend Divine Soul for the access to Bestow Curse more then once per day. With a 5th level slot (so at level 12) it no longer needs concentration. Giving the event Disadvantage on saves with Hound of Ill Omen can be made up for by giving them Disadvantage on saving throws off the type you want to hit them with if you really want, but any of it's other more immediately impactful abilities are better since that's a high cost just to give them Disadvantage in comparison to the hound. Making them succeed on a Wisdom saving throw or waste their turn can be exceedingly powerful when it lands though.
Hitting Bestow Curse for extra damage on attacks and moving a hex to a target on round one can give you crazy damage 1d10+1d8+1d6 per beam of Eldritch Blast on round 2+
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2019-05-10, 07:42 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2017
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2019-05-10, 07:44 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2018
Re: Sorcerer/Warlock Build Pros and Cons
I'd go with either 1, 2, or 3 levels of Warlock. The Sorcerer just has the better spell list, delaying spell levels is a big opportunity cost. All of them certainly want Quicken Spell.
Warlock 1 is mostly for Hexblade dips to go into melee. Just pick up Green Flame Blade and Booming Blade, you should be good to do some burst damage in melee.
Warlock 2 is mostly necessary for ranged builds, Agonizing Blast is the name of the game.
Warlock 3 allows for better spell conversions before short rests, level 2 warlock spells and a Pact. Unfortunately it also delays your ASIs further, which is oh so important.
I'd advise you to start out as Sorcerer. The Warlock dips will come very natural to almost all Sorcerer builds. Just remember to put in enough strength so you can carry your armor. If you want to melee, Warcaster is almost mandatory. The Dragon Sorcerer can be a very strong choice depending on your build. If you want to wade into melee, they can add 3x your Charisma to damage.
Some small tips on race selection: Other then the arguably overpowered Winged Tieflings, Half Elf for the ton of extra stats and proficiencies, Variant Humans for early access to Warcaster and Tieflings for access to Flames of Phlegethos are the standouts.Last edited by ChiefBigFeather; 2019-05-10 at 07:46 PM.
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2019-05-10, 11:43 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2013
Re: Sorcerer/Warlock Build Pros and Cons
If it were me, I would get up to your first ASI in Sorcerer, grab three levels of Warlock, and then ride Sorcerer until the cows come home.
Man, what I would really love to play for a debuffing and hexing sort of character that runs Sorlock would be a Raven Queen Warlock from the UA and Shadow Sorcerer. I know that particular mix isn’t optimal, but it would be cool as heck to roleplay.
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2019-05-11, 05:40 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2019
Re: Sorcerer/Warlock Build Pros and Cons
From sheer power point there is nothing to add- it's one of the strongest builds in game, easy a top 3.
As for leveling. I am bigger fan of 2/18 than 3/17 build as I want as fast Sorc caster progression as possible and while short-rest 2nd level slots are nice, that extra level delay will hurt you long way. Also if you plan to play to level 20, having 9th level spells at 19 instead of 20 is a big difference.
If you want to focus on debuffs I would still take 2 Hexblade levels. It's just too good. Not only you get Medium armor, shields + martial weapons but you are also SAD CHA. While your job is not melee combat, early in the game you don't have enough slots to spam everything. But with Green Flame Blade your melee with SAD CHA is very good at low levels before marial classes get their extra attack + GWM/SS feats.
After that I would go for Shadow Sorcerer as he is one of best debuffer in game due to Shadow Hound (who impose disadvantage on one enemy vs all your spells) + his other features are nice. Then I would grab mostly Control and Debuff spells like Hold Person, Blind/Deafness, Suggestion, Banishment, Bestow Curse, Hypnotic Pattern, Dominate, Force Cage, Mass Suggestion, Web etc.
However, I would like to note that Sorcerers and Sorlock are the only ones that can debuff well. Thought Sorc only do that well with Shadow Hound. Without they are not that good at ait.
If you want something that is excellent at the debuffing, I would take a look at Glamour Bard with Instruments of Bard and Diviniation Wizard because of their Portnent feature.Last edited by Mitsu; 2019-05-11 at 05:41 AM.
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2019-05-11, 06:05 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2019
Re: Sorcerer/Warlock Build Pros and Cons
I'll join the crowd in support of Sorcerer 17/Warlock 3
This gives you both Wish at level 20 and two level 2 slots (=4 sorcery points) that recharge on a short rest, allowing you to quicken Eldritch Blasts for longer.
More sorcery points also allow you to twin buffs more often, and you get a better spell list. As far as debuffs go, Hypnotic Pattern is really the only thing you need (unless you want to pick up Reverse Gravity later on) and is made stronger by your Hound of Ill Omen.
I personally play a Divine Soul X/Hexblade 3 with Pact of the Chain. Divine Soul for Guidance, Conjure Celestial, Spiritual Weapon, and the many great healing spells, especially Healing Word to raise a 0 hp party member as a bonus action.
Hexblade because the added AC from medium armor and a shield alone make it better than other Warlock patrons, plus you need Hexblade's Curse to maximise your single target DPR.
Chain because there are not enough useful rituals from Book of Ancient Secrets to justify the worse familiar, and this way I don't have to waste an invocation on the Book, which allows me to pick up Devil's Sight for the combo with Darkness and just as a way of getting Darkvision, since my Changeling doesn't have it.
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2019-05-11, 08:39 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2018
Re: Sorcerer/Warlock Build Pros and Cons
So, there's nothing but support for just a dip in Warlock. Are there any arguments for 6 or less levels of Sorcerer?
Last edited by LichPlease; 2019-05-11 at 08:42 AM.
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2019-05-11, 09:27 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2015
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2019-05-11, 09:39 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2018
Re: Sorcerer/Warlock Build Pros and Cons
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2019-05-11, 11:02 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2019
Re: Sorcerer/Warlock Build Pros and Cons
Unfortunately there are very few reasons to go Warlock for more than 3 levels. The Sorcerer can cast better spells, has better Sorcerous Origin features compared to the higher level Patron features, and sorcery points are generally a better mechanic than high level Eldritch Invocations.
The only reason I can see to go for more Warlock levels is if you have very long dungeon crawls that allow for frequent safe short rests, but that seems rather unlikely, and even then you'd need three short rests to match the number of spells a sorcerer can cast.Last edited by OgataiKhan; 2019-05-11 at 11:06 AM.
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2019-05-11, 01:21 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2018
Re: Sorcerer/Warlock Build Pros and Cons
Well, one thing is more shortrest spell power. If you do lots of short rests per long rest during your campaign, it might be worthwhile to invest into warlock slots.
Invocations like extra attack and smite can be pretty powerful. But I think Quicken pretty much covers those. It is more efficient to turn spellslots into sorcery points for quicken then smiting.Last edited by ChiefBigFeather; 2019-05-11 at 01:22 PM.
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2019-05-11, 01:23 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2018
Re: Sorcerer/Warlock Build Pros and Cons
So, does more levels in Sorcerer far outweigh more spells known and having more and higher level pact magic spell slots to play with?
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2019-05-11, 01:38 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2017
Re: Sorcerer/Warlock Build Pros and Cons
It's kind of situational for your playstyle, but in general, yes.
Every extra spell level you obtain for one class will ultimately cost you a spell level in the other class and increase the distance betweeen your top spell level and that of single classed characters. That can make you feel like you're falling behind further and further, which can be frustrating.
And you only get 1 sorcery point per sorcerer level...Last edited by Matrix_Walker; 2019-05-11 at 01:38 PM.
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2019-05-11, 03:21 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2019
- Gender