Are Dragons Considered To Be A Kaiju?

[Bartmanhomer]

I'm just curious. It just occurred to me that dragons consider being a kaiju: 1. There are colossal. 2. They have special powers. 3. They can fight. So I just want to know are dragons considered to be a kaiju?

[Lord Raziere]

Depends.

Do we consider Godzilla a dragon?

[The New Bruceski]

Kaiju is a movie term, so it depends on if you're talking in general or about a movie where a dragon rampages through Tokyo.

[Bartmanhomer]

Depends.

Do we consider Godzilla a dragon?

Mutated Dinosaur but some people are still debating about that.

[Zmeoaice]

Depends.

Do we consider Godzilla a dragon?

King Ghidorah certainly is

[Rater202]

Kaiju literally means "strange beast," and roughly means "monster," so by strict definition yes.

However, you're going colloquially.

the proper term for what you're looking for is "Daikaiju," or "Giant Monster," and in that case, it really depends on how big the dragon is.

I don't know what the official cut-off point is for size, but I'm gonna suggest that if a dragon is large enough to carry off an elephant like a hawk with a rabbit, it's a Kaiju.

[Forum Explorer]

Kaiju literally means "strange beast," and roughly means "monster," so by strict definition yes.

However, you're going colloquially.

the proper term for what you're looking for is "Daikaiju," or "Giant Monster," and in that case, it really depends on how big the dragon is.

I don't know what the official cut-off point is for size, but I'm gonna suggest that if a dragon is large enough to carry off an elephant like a hawk with a rabbit, it's a Kaiju.

At the same time a dragon might not count as a beast. It might depend on the intelligence of the dragon.

[Knaight]

Generally no - though if you're going to restrict the definition to truly massive beasts with weird powers the technical case gets pretty easy. It wouldn't be unreasonable to consider Reign of Fire a Kaiju movie, to pick one obvious point of overlap, though it also wouldn't be particularly helpful as a classification.

[Rater202]

At the same time a dragon might not count as a beast. It might depend on the intelligence of the dragon.

The strict definition of a beast literally just means an animal--which is to say, a complex living organism that isn't a plant or a fungus.

Since even humans are animals, I don't think that even a dragon that's a 999 googolplex times the intellect of the gestalt consciousness of every scientist and philosopher who ever lived and ever will wouldn't meet the strict definition of beast, unless the dragon in question is also a tree or a robot in which case you're stretching the definition of dragon a tadd.

[Knaight]

That said, if you're going to try and use the connotations of words in a way that isn't outright deceptive, using the term "beast" for humans as a whole is incredibly dubious (particularly brutish and violent humans, sure). Some hyperintelligent creature far beyond humans is if anything a worse use.

[Callos_DeTerran]

Depends on the type of dragon. For most, Kaiju aren't really thought to be of as highly intelligent so the super smart dragons of D&D? No, they aren't kaiju. Now kaiju are sometimes portrayed as particularly in tune with nature/their surroundings, which fits 'wisdom' for some, but few are flat out intelligent as we define it. And smart dragons don't fit for the same reason. Dumb ones? They could, if they get big enough.

[Kitten Champion]

There are a ton of dragon-like kaiju - Ghidorah, for instance - but kaiju have such a diversity of designs and origins that such a generic non-specific term is the best you can hope for to communicate the idea, even into other languages.

I would say a dragon is not a kaiju if they're outside of Tokusatsu or those working in that pastiche like Pacific Rim, because at a certain point you could just say any monster is a kaiju and it loses any frame of reference when discussing it. For example, if someone asked for a kaiju movie and you pointed them towards the Hobbit trilogy on the basis that you'd have some scenes of a fire-breathing monster destroying a town for like eight minutes but as nothing else about those movies are kaiju or kaiju-esque they're going to be confused.

[Forum Explorer]

The strict definition of a beast literally just means an animal--which is to say, a complex living organism that isn't a plant or a fungus.

Since even humans are animals, I don't think that even a dragon that's a 999 googolplex times the intellect of the gestalt consciousness of every scientist and philosopher who ever lived and ever will wouldn't meet the strict definition of beast, unless the dragon in question is also a tree or a robot in which case you're stretching the definition of dragon a tadd.

In Western Culture sure. Other cultures have different, what's the word, connotations? behind dragons. Like I think Eastern Dragons were thought to be more divine beings, IIRC.

Besides that, lots of cultures and people today don't consider humans to be beasts either. Like the saying; 'not fit for man or beast?'

So the idea that being intelligent separates you from beasts is well established throughout history. It may not be perfectly accurate definition wise, but it's an old bias that's never really gone away either.

Like, for example, their are still scientists today who will insist that animals (all animals that aren't human) aren't capable of any sort of actual thought or emotion. That they are basically fleshy computers acting on stimuli.

[Fyraltari]

Which dragons?

Ancalagon the Black? Sure

Spoiler: Ancalagon

Show

Errol? No.

Spoiler: Errol

Show

[lord_khaine]

Errol? No.

Bwahaha!
Errol is likely also the least divine dragon you would ever find.

[The Jack]

If you're going with mythology, an oriental 'lung' type dragon wouldn't be a Kaiju, because it's a 'familiar' creature. It's normal enough that it's had a big impact on culture; it belongs in the zodiac and other cosmology, it's in a huge deal of art and people're often described as dragons or tigers as if they were normal, albiet rare, creatures. a foreigner could almost look at it and think it was a once-common creature that went extinct. Griphons and western dragons* have nowhere near that level of cultural impact. Only unicorns approach that level of realness.

*the terrifying kind, rather than the large amphibians people used to slay.

So, I would think a western style Ancient Dragon, Krakken or Tarrasque could be A Kaiju. They're different enough.

Dragon turtles and Kirin would be normal.

[Magic_Hat]

King Ghidorah certainly is

Why?

Charizard is not a dragon type. Just because something is a large, winged lizard that breaths fire that automatically makes it a dragon? Get your facts straight, and as we all know Pokemon is 100% accurate and reliable for facts!

Moving on, is Trogdor a kaiju?

[CarpeGuitarrem]

I mean, they may not technically be kaiju, but if it stomps like a kaiju, has energy breath like a kaiju...

Moving on, is Trogdor a kaiju?

Well, Trogdor was a man.

[Magic_Hat]

Well, Trogdor was a man.

He was a dragon-man.

[Mystic Muse]

He was a dragon-man.

Or maybe...he was just a dragon.

But he was still TROGDOOOOOOOOR!

[Magic_Hat]

Or maybe...he was just a dragon.

But he was still TROGDOOOOOOOOR!

Burninating the countryside! Burninating the peasants!

Back on topic if dragons are kaiju would that mean the name of the series is "How to Train Your Kaiju"? I'd totally watch a film (series) about viking learning to ride giant, Japanese monsters.

[Bartmanhomer]

Why?

Charizard is not a dragon type. Just because something is a large, winged lizard that breaths fire that automatically makes it a dragon? Get your facts straight, and as we all know Pokemon is 100% accurate and reliable for facts!

Moving on, is Trogdor a kaiju?

To be fair, Mega Charizard X is a Fire/Dragon Type.

[Magic_Hat]

To be fair, Mega Charizard X is a Fire/Dragon Type.

What are you? Some kind of guy that kept up after gen 1?

[Bartmanhomer]

What are you? Some kind of guy that kept up after gen 1?

Uh yes.

[Magic_Hat]

Uh yes.

Oh. That's cool. I could never keep up. Just kind of lost interest in it. But to each their own. No judgement for having a hobby.

[Bartmanhomer]

Oh. That's cool. I could never keep up. Just kind of lost interest in it. But to each their own. No judgement for having a hobby.

No biggie. I'm a generation 1 fan myself but I did keep track of the game being updated as well.

[GloatingSwine]

I'm just curious. It just occurred to me that dragons consider being a kaiju: 1. There are colossal. 2. They have special powers. 3. They can fight. So I just want to know are dragons considered to be a kaiju?

No.

Dragons are a kind of kami.

[Lvl 2 Expert]

They appear on the kaijumatic*, which means they're kaiju by at least one definition, their definition being a "theatrically-released, feature-length, live-action-film giant monster... ...What's a giant? Something over eight feet tall, long, or wide as a general rule of thumb, with some exceptions; one being something that was tiny growing many times larger to a menacing size (like the Killer Shrews), the other being the exclusion of mundane creatures of unexceptional size that are still living on Earth (like an elephant)." This definition includes things like the Xenomorphs from Alien and some random giant geese as well. On the other hand you could use a much stricter definition of a kaiju being a monster of at least 100 feet that first appeared in a Japanese or closely Japanese inspired work, which might disqualify even the specifically named kaiju in Pacific Rim.

So I guess the question is: what do you want a kaiju to be? Is a dragon that?

*These guys have a great power level classification system by the way, worth a gander if you enjoy thinking about "who would win in a fight".

[Rater202]

No.

Dragons are a kind of kami.

If being a deity disqualified you from being a kaiju then that would exclude Mothra, King Ceaser, and a couple other Godzilla affiliated monsters.

Likewise, several Godzilla films depict the monsters as being sapient, so sapience is not a disqualifier.

[GloatingSwine]

If being a deity disqualified you from being a kaiju then that would exclude Mothra, King Ceaser, and a couple other Godzilla affiliated monsters.

The distinction is that they only exist in their own fiction, dragons as kami are a concept which predates the idea of kaiju, which only really arose when paleontology started discovering large critters and didn't actually enter common coinage until the movies.