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  1. - Top - End - #31
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Goblin

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    Default Re: Your favorite unplayable character option?

    There are a lot of really weird monsters that I'd like to try playing sometime.

    An ooze. Specifically, an ochre jelly or a black pudding: something that's just a straight-up, bog-standard giant puddle of slime.

    A hecatoncheires that looks just like the one from Epic Level Handbook.

    A swarm of itty-bitty fairies, like a shimmerling swarm, but not so "blind-everyting-within-300-feet"-ish.

    An ethereal filcher.
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  2. - Top - End - #32
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    GreatWyrmGold's Avatar

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    Default Re: Your favorite unplayable character option?

    I was looking up sharn to see what all the fuss was about, and the Eberron city came up before the Faerûn aberration. Which was only mildly confusing, as I was about pretty sure the community hadn't found rules to use an entire city as a PC.
    But, I can now see where people would say they're overpowered, what with the permanent haste and the caster levels and multiple spells per round and stuff. That sounds...concerning.


    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Jay View Post
    There are a lot of really weird monsters that I'd like to try playing sometime.
    See if you can convince your DM to use Inevitability's level adjustments.
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  3. - Top - End - #33
    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: Your favorite unplayable character option?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Jay View Post
    There are a lot of really weird monsters that I'd like to try playing sometime.

    An ooze. Specifically, an ochre jelly or a black pudding: something that's just a straight-up, bog-standard giant puddle of slime.

    A hecatoncheires that looks just like the one from Epic Level Handbook.

    A swarm of itty-bitty fairies, like a shimmerling swarm, but not so "blind-everyting-within-300-feet"-ish.

    An ethereal filcher.
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatWyrmGold View Post
    See if you can convince your DM to use Inevitability's level adjustments.
    I really like what Inevitability is doing with that little project. I also am a big fan of Oslecamo's project to make monster classes playable.

    Though, Oslecamo's work has shown itself to be awfully contentious on what people find balanced in a monster class. I personally like most of it.

  4. - Top - End - #34
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

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    Default Re: Your favorite unplayable character option?

    Oh, there's too many. In our current, long-running campaign, I started off playing a Spellthief. I'd probably still be playing him if he hadn't died twice and I just couldn't face replaying 7th level again.

    My backup characters include a CA Ninja and a 2nd Level Bard/10th Level Paladin. Oh, and a Soulborn that I rebuilt using the homebrew in my .sig. I'd probably still play him straight from Magic of Incarnum though.

    Now admittedly, my current guy is a 12th level character/11th level spellcaster. And my fourth backup is probably the most optimized I've ever made.
    (My fourth backup is a 12th level Diplomonster Half-Elven Bard.)

    Still, I'm the type of guy who looks at the CW Samurai or a PHB Monk and thinks, "You know, that could be fun..."
    Last edited by ottdmk; 2019-05-14 at 04:52 PM.

  5. - Top - End - #35
    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: Your favorite unplayable character option?

    2 pages, and nobody has said "a monk".... Until just now

  6. - Top - End - #36
    Orc in the Playground
     
    NinjaGuy

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    Default Re: Your favorite unplayable character option?

    Master of Masks has always really intrigued me, but it's kinda just straight garbage :/

  7. - Top - End - #37
    Colossus in the Playground
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    Default Re: Your favorite unplayable character option?

    Quote Originally Posted by jintoya View Post
    2 pages, and nobody has said "a monk".... Until just now
    Well, "Monk" as a character option is hardly unplayable since the same character space is more or less filled by Tashalatora Psychic Warrior-or-Ardent, Unarmed Swordsage and Sacred Fist, all of which are solid. It's just the "Monk" class that's kinda meh. But the character archetype is one of the better presented ones.
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  8. - Top - End - #38
    Orc in the Playground
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    Default Re: Your favorite unplayable character option?

    Quote Originally Posted by Telonius View Post
    I want a Skald who preserves all of the oral traditions of their people, respectful of the past and preserving tradition for the next generation.
    Most historical skalds were descendent from the aristocracy, and perform is on the aristocrat's list. Aristocrats can be lawful. Problem solved.
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  9. - Top - End - #39
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    ElfPirate

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    Default Re: Your favorite unplayable character option?

    I think this already got mentioned, but the lycanthrope template is really not great for players. And much as I love Shifters, the penalty to intelligence and charisma limits the number of builds they're good in.
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  10. - Top - End - #40
    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: Your favorite unplayable character option?

    My group fixed monk by making it full bab, now they're actually pretty impressive.

    As far as unplayable, I've always enjoyed the mental image of the warshaper. You prepare spells for an hour, and i turn into a giant rolling ball of tentacles that have colossal reach and hundreds of attacks

  11. - Top - End - #41
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    Planetar

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    Default Re: Your favorite unplayable character option?

    Quote Originally Posted by Roninblack View Post
    My group fixed monk by making it full bab, now they're actually pretty impressive.

    As far as unplayable, I've always enjoyed the mental image of the warshaper. You prepare spells for an hour, and i turn into a giant rolling ball of tentacles that have colossal reach and hundreds of attacks
    No offense, but full BAB wouldn't even put Monk in tier 3. So, it's still fairly trashcan. There's a reason that stuff like Tashalatora Psychic warriors do the job better. Wizards realized this which is why feats like that.. that give everything unique that is Monk onto another existing class at only the cost of a feat exist in the first place. So people can achieve the goal of the monk playstyle. With out being so weak that a generic summoned minion from a caster isn't replacing you.
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  12. - Top - End - #42
    Orc in the Playground
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    Default Re: Your favorite unplayable character option?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lorddenorstrus View Post
    No offense, but full BAB wouldn't even put Monk in tier 3.
    "Not even in tier 3" describes every mundane melee class in 3.5.
    shipping Sabine/Vaarsuvius

  13. - Top - End - #43
    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: Your favorite unplayable character option?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lorddenorstrus View Post
    No offense.
    None taken, it works for us, but we have a weird dynamic of high and low op characters, house rules aren't for everyone after all

  14. - Top - End - #44
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    Luccan's Avatar

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    Default Re: Your favorite unplayable character option?

    Monk has some cool class features (the teleporting one, the self-heal, and the speak all languages one). The problem is you get them way too late and they do far too little. I'd play a monk if the features were more usable, even without a full BAB (I mean, they should totally have a full BAB and more skill points, given how MAD they are, but what are you gonna do).
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  15. - Top - End - #45
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Malphegor's Avatar

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    Default Re: Your favorite unplayable character option?

    I may be misunderstanding how levels from racial HD works (I think my Dm would let me waive the HD levels for class levels) so this'd maybe have an additional 2 levels before it got started.
    Basically I planned once to play a pseudodragon who wanted to be a real dragon.

    Maw the Pseudodragon build
    “I am Maw. Though I am small, fear me! Rawr! I am fire that burns your soup! I am the little death! I am the darkness sitting on your head! I AM MAW!”


    Level 1: LA level
    *Level 1 Feat: is there one?
    Level 2: LA Level
    Level 3: Level Adjustment level
    *Level 3 feat: ? is there one?
    Level 4: Dragonfire Adept 1 *Least Invocations unlocked!*
    1 Invocation known: Endure Exposure- entire party is immune to my breath weapon and get the benefits of a endure elements spell.
    Level 5: Drgonfire Adept 2
    *Level 2 Dragonfire Adept Breath Effect: Frost Breath- can do a breath attack that isn’t going to set the world on fire.
    Level 6: Dragonfire Adept 3
    2nd invocation known: Magic Insight- Provide party with benefits of Identify at will.
    *Level 6 feat: Lucky Start- accumulate luck rerolls, can now reroll my initiative checks
    Level 7: Dragonfire Adept 4
    Level 8: Dragonfire Adept 5
    *Level 5 Dragonfire Adept Breath Effect: Slow Breath- applies Slow in breath range
    Level 9: Dragonfire Adept 6 *Lesser Invocations unlocked*
    Invocation to learn: Charm- at will charm monster.
    *Level 9 feat: Make your own luck- can now use luck rerolls to reroll all skill checks immediately. Basically the plan here is to be helpful with knowledge checks since DA get all the knowledge, plus maybe UMD rolls because oh my god I have like so little actual magics
    Level 10: Dragonfire Adept 7
    Level 11: Dragonfire Adept 8
    Invocation to learn: Voracious Dispelling- at will dispel magic
    Level 12: Dragonfire Adept 9
    *Level 12 feat: Entangling Exhalation- can now entangle creatures with my breath weapon and get damage for 1d4 rounds
    Level 13: Dragonfire Adept 10
    *Level 10 Dragonfire Adept Breath Effect: Sleep Breath: can make weak enemies sleep
    Level 14: Dragonfire Adept 11 *Greater invocations unlocked*
    Invocation to learn: Baleful Geas- standard action version of Geas/Quest
    Level 15: Dragonfire Adept 12
    *Level 15 Feat: Exhaled Barrier- can now create a 10x10 opaque force field out of our breath attacks.
    Level 16: Dragonfire Adept 13
    Invocation to learn: Chilling fog- solid fog slows targets, and deals damage.
    Level 17: Dragonfire Adept 14
    Level 18: Dragonfire Adept 15
    *Level 15 Dragonfire Adept Breath Effect: Force Breath maybe???
    *Level 18 Feat: Extra Invocation (take an extra invocation up to one below what our max is. Take the Lesser Invocation, Walk Unseen, so we have at-will invisibility*
    Level 19: Dragonfire Adept 16 *Dark Invocations unlocked!*
    Invocation to learn: Energy Immunity- at will, no longer get damage from 1 energy type, changeable at will.
    Level 20: Dragonfire Adept 17


    I think more than anything else this would potentially be a very dull character to play mechanically.

    Not being a humanoid shape would be a pain, having almost-warlock-but-not-warlock stuff doesn't really have that much items that help it afaik, and possibly being unable to talk verbally, and solely communicate via magic telepathy might cause more problems than it helps maybe.

    Would be fun to roleplay duping commonfolk into believing I'm a 'familiar' of a wizard who really has an ACF instead of a familiar whilst being a fully fledged character myself though. Like being the Brain to someone's Inspector Gadget.
    Last edited by Malphegor; 2019-05-16 at 04:16 AM.
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  16. - Top - End - #46
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Yael's Avatar

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    Default Re: Your favorite unplayable character option?

    Quote Originally Posted by jintoya View Post
    2 pages, and nobody has said "a monk".... Until just now
    I've played monk barbarians, they work really well, if you consider one of those two classes not in the actual build.

    An Illithid, or any non-elan aberration for that matter. They are just usually bad for their RHD for the appropiate party ECL, or their LA is way high (if there's any).
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  17. - Top - End - #47
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Dimers's Avatar

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    Default Re: Your favorite unplayable character option?

    I've always wanted to play a crysmal. They're adorable, and right from the get-go, you have a clear motivation for adventuring: makin' babies! But those RHD really don't give you squat.
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  18. - Top - End - #48
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Devil

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    Default Re: Your favorite unplayable character option?

    Deepwyrm half drow vermin trainer starting as marshal with the draconic aura substitution acf. (One of the few ways to meet the prereqs for vermin trainer out the gate as a level 1 character.) Draconic aura sub helps with the problem of standard marshal auras not affecting vermin.

    I've had a few build stubs laying around but never had a table to play it at.

    Another that I've wanted to play, purely for the challenge of it is a phb only monk.

  19. - Top - End - #49
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    NecromancerGirl

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    Default Re: Your favorite unplayable character option?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yael View Post
    An Illithid, or any non-elan aberration for that matter. They are just usually bad for their RHD for the appropiate party ECL, or their LA is way high (if there's any).
    Yeah even if you play with them having innate psionics as a Psion of level (RHD+1) instead of their SLAs, that +7 LA is no joke. You're manifesting as a 14th-level Psion when Wizards can Gate or Time Stop four to six times per day. For that matter, Gith (of both types) get shortchanged by their LA, and the Blue does as well. Sure, LA +1 isn't the end of the world (even w/o buyoff) but it's not like everyone would be clamoring to make Blue Psions otherwise. These are all cool races, but (to varying degrees) not playable.

    Oh, speaking of psionics, the Metamind. Using it naively, you end up with fewer equivalent PP/day than if you just stuck pure Psion, and that's supposed to be its whole schtick. And on top of that you're losing five levels of manifesting.

  20. - Top - End - #50
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    PirateWench

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    Default Re: Your favorite unplayable character option?

    For me, it's Master of Many Forms. And before someone says that MoMF isn't unplayable, I accept that for some people, it is perfectly playable. However, I just can't see giving up phenomenal cosmic power (spell-casting) just to change shapes a bit better than a normal druid.

    And that's one of the things I really have an issue with in the various D&D games. I'd like to have a character who specializes in shape-changing, but why bother when you can have a character who is good at shape-changing *and* also has full spell-casting?

    On the flip side, on the "so good it's unplayable," I would add Planar Shepherd. There's no way that I could ever even ask a DM to let me play one. They're just way too good. But I want a class that gives me the power to turn into, say, a demon (and not just for cosmetic reasons... for actual power-gain reasons... and not with wimpy power gains like, say, Acolyte of the Skin). Planar Shepherd would be a great class for that... but it does too much other good stuff, without taking away any of a druid's normal powers.

  21. - Top - End - #51

    Default Re: Your favorite unplayable character option?

    Quote Originally Posted by SimonMoon6 View Post
    For me, it's Master of Many Forms. And before someone says that MoMF isn't unplayable, I accept that for some people, it is perfectly playable. However, I just can't see giving up phenomenal cosmic power (spell-casting) just to change shapes a bit better than a normal druid.

    And that's one of the things I really have an issue with in the various D&D games. I'd like to have a character who specializes in shape-changing, but why bother when you can have a character who is good at shape-changing *and* also has full spell-casting?
    Hows that any different from a spellcaster that only prepares polymorph spells and nothing else?

    There's also the "why play barbarian when you can play spellcaster?"

    Don't think of yourself as a spellcaster. Think of yourself as a mundane and you can play MoMF without feeling like you're gimping yourself. You're a fighter who is forced to get spellcaster levels for a prerequisite.

  22. - Top - End - #52
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    RedMage125's Avatar

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    Default Re: Your favorite unplayable character option?

    Quote Originally Posted by StevenC21 View Post
    For me, it's the Duelist. Super awesome concept. I love the idea. In practice? Bad AC, bad damage, bad bonus abilities. There's really nothing to like about it. It sucks.
    I'll have to take a bit of time to think about mine, but this surprised me.

    I know Duelist is considered subpar as a whole, but you can get excellent AC with one. As a thought experiment once when I was on watch several years ago, I built a level 20 character (with lvl 20 WBL) for AC, and I got a Duelist into the 60s for AC (with an additional +8 vs against Attacks of Opportunity), when fighting defensively. I believe it was Swashbuckler 6/Rogue4/Duelist 10. Of course it had Daring Outlaw and Defensive Duelist feats, and was pretty gear-dependent (because I focused on AC-improving items), but it got pretty crazy. With books and stat items to improve DEX and INT both to 30, fighting defensively adds his Duelist level to AC (and also adds an extra +1d6 to his damage), Ring of Protection +5, Off-Hand was a +5 Defensive Dagger (all going to AC, you only lose Duelist benefits if you attack with a weapon in your off-hand, you can still hold one). And since the character was so deeply invested in being able to move to maintain his AC (4 levels of Rogue got him Uncanny Dodge), I also gave him a Ring of Freedom of Movement. He also had a Monk's Belt (and I believ his WIS mod was a +2), and an Ioun Stone for AC. That's something like a 64 or so to AC, not counting the Dodge thing that Swashbucklers get. And a Duelist 10 with Defensive Duelist does 4d6 damage fighting with a rapier (not counting when he gets in his 5d6 Sneak Attacks).

    That is a level 20 build, though. getting such a character to that point might be a lot less satisfying.
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  23. - Top - End - #53
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    Default Re: Your favorite unplayable character option?

    Quote Originally Posted by RoboEmperor View Post
    Hows that any different from a spellcaster that only prepares polymorph spells and nothing else?

    There's also the "why play barbarian when you can play spellcaster?"

    Don't think of yourself as a spellcaster. Think of yourself as a mundane and you can play MoMF without feeling like you're gimping yourself. You're a fighter who is forced to get spellcaster levels for a prerequisite.
    The comparison is not "why play a barbarian". It's "why play a barbarian when you could play a barbarian with full casting who can continue to cast and concentrate while Raging?" One is mechanically superior to the other. That doesn't bother some people, but in the case of the druid choosing MoMF is choosing to play a mechanically worse character than you could play.
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  24. - Top - End - #54

    Default Re: Your favorite unplayable character option?

    Quote Originally Posted by Luccan View Post
    The comparison is not "why play a barbarian". It's "why play a barbarian when you could play a barbarian with full casting who can continue to cast and concentrate while Raging?" One is mechanically superior to the other. That doesn't bother some people, but in the case of the druid choosing MoMF is choosing to play a mechanically worse character than you could play.
    That's metagaming. As the level you take the PrC, your character wouldn't know whether spellcasting is superior to shapechanging so him picking shapechanging (incorrectly) makes total sense.

    Also intentionally weakening your spellcaster is something most people enjoy because, you know, ZOMG T1 OP MUNCHKING LOLZ. And by most people I mean people who don't play spellcasters themselves.

    I'm not that knowledgeable about MoMF, but if it makes you the defacto best polymorph gish then I'd take it because i rather be the best at my shtick than be a generic god moder. It's why I prefer sorcerers over wizards, be the best at the one thing rather than be good at everything.

  25. - Top - End - #55
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    NecromancerGirl

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    Default Re: Your favorite unplayable character option?

    Quote Originally Posted by RedMage125 View Post
    I'll have to take a bit of time to think about mine, but this surprised me.

    I know Duelist is considered subpar as a whole, but you can get excellent AC with one. As a thought experiment once when I was on watch several years ago, I built a level 20 character (with lvl 20 WBL) for AC, and I got a Duelist into the 60s for AC (with an additional +8 vs against Attacks of Opportunity), when fighting defensively. I believe it was Swashbuckler 6/Rogue4/Duelist 10. Of course it had Daring Outlaw and Defensive Duelist feats, and was pretty gear-dependent (because I focused on AC-improving items), but it got pretty crazy. With books and stat items to improve DEX and INT both to 30, fighting defensively adds his Duelist level to AC (and also adds an extra +1d6 to his damage), Ring of Protection +5, Off-Hand was a +5 Defensive Dagger (all going to AC, you only lose Duelist benefits if you attack with a weapon in your off-hand, you can still hold one). And since the character was so deeply invested in being able to move to maintain his AC (4 levels of Rogue got him Uncanny Dodge), I also gave him a Ring of Freedom of Movement. He also had a Monk's Belt (and I believ his WIS mod was a +2), and an Ioun Stone for AC. That's something like a 64 or so to AC, not counting the Dodge thing that Swashbucklers get. And a Duelist 10 with Defensive Duelist does 4d6 damage fighting with a rapier (not counting when he gets in his 5d6 Sneak Attacks).

    That is a level 20 build, though. getting such a character to that point might be a lot less satisfying.
    If you're really willing to sacrifice damage output, you can break past AC 80 as a Duelist at 20th level when fighting defensively. It's not good, sure, since everyone can just ignore you and your saves aren't necessarily great either. But yeah, Duelists don't have bad AC.

  26. - Top - End - #56
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    Default Re: Your favorite unplayable character option?

    Quote Originally Posted by SLOTHRPG95 View Post
    If you're really willing to sacrifice damage output, you can break past AC 80 as a Duelist at 20th level when fighting defensively. It's not good, sure, since everyone can just ignore you and your saves aren't necessarily great either. But yeah, Duelists don't have bad AC.
    Agree with all this, but still agree with the op that duelist is essentially unplayable. The class does Grant basically +20 AC over twenty levels but the core concept has so little support it doesn't mean much. (Also by the time you're really seeing that payoff ac is often mostly irrelevant).
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  27. - Top - End - #57
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    Default Re: Your favorite unplayable character option?

    Quote Originally Posted by mabriss lethe View Post
    Deepwyrm half drow...
    I initially assumed this was a deepwyrm (presumably some Underdark lesser dragon) with a half-drow template applied. I was surprised that such a template existed! Drow don't seem nearly as interfertile as humans are.
    Then I realized that it was probably the other way around, and wondered if there was a half-human template anywhere.


    Quote Originally Posted by SLOTHRPG95 View Post
    Yeah even if you play with them having innate psionics as a Psion of level (RHD+1) instead of their SLAs, that +7 LA is no joke. You're manifesting as a 14th-level Psion when Wizards can Gate or Time Stop four to six times per day. For that matter, Gith (of both types) get shortchanged by their LA, and the Blue does as well. Sure, LA +1 isn't the end of the world (even w/o buyoff) but it's not like everyone would be clamoring to make Blue Psions otherwise. These are all cool races, but (to varying degrees) not playable.
    Inevitability's LA-reassignment project is going through the XPH right now. Once the gith and psillithids are evaluated, see if your DM lets you use those LAs.
    Assuming you can find a 3.5 DM, of course.


    Quote Originally Posted by RoboEmperor View Post
    That's metagaming. As the level you take the PrC, your character wouldn't know whether spellcasting is superior to shapechanging so him picking shapechanging (incorrectly) makes total sense.
    What are you talking about? If you trained as a druid among other druids in a world that has druids, you know what druids can do. You know what their spellcasting can do and you know what their wild-shape can do. You don't have numbers, but the power of T1 casters isn't quantitative, it's qualitative. It's not the numbers behind what they can do, it's what they can do.

    I'm not that knowledgeable about MoMF, but if it makes you the defacto best polymorph gish then I'd take it because i rather be the best at my shtick than be a generic god moder.
    I can't claim to have ever played one, but the MoMF's main gimmick is getting new creature types to turn into, and getting bigger/smaller forms faster. They also get to talk while wild-shaped, get extra daily uses of WS, WS as a move action a few levels in, eventually gain their form's extraordinary special qualities, and their capstone grants immunity to transmutation and aging. That's basically it. No spellcasting advancement, no special attacks, no supernatural anything. I thought it was cool when I was in middle school, but now I don't see the appeal in being able to turn into a dragon that can't breathe fire after 10 levels of investment.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Blade Wolf View Post
    Ah, thank you very much GreatWyrmGold, you obviously live up to that name with your intelligence and wisdom with that post.
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  28. - Top - End - #58

    Default Re: Your favorite unplayable character option?

    Quote Originally Posted by GreatWyrmGold View Post
    I can't claim to have ever played one, but the MoMF's main gimmick is getting new creature types to turn into, and getting bigger/smaller forms faster. They also get to talk while wild-shaped, get extra daily uses of WS, WS as a move action a few levels in, eventually gain their form's extraordinary special qualities, and their capstone grants immunity to transmutation and aging. That's basically it. No spellcasting advancement, no special attacks, no supernatural anything. I thought it was cool when I was in middle school, but now I don't see the appeal in being able to turn into a dragon that can't breathe fire after 10 levels of investment.
    Grab Assume Supernatural Ability. You can breath fire.

  29. - Top - End - #59
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    Default Re: Your favorite unplayable character option?

    Quote Originally Posted by Malphegor View Post
    Basically I planned once to play a pseudodragon who wanted to be a real dragon.
    I actually (briefly) played a character like this once - Blaze, a Pseudodragon Dragonfire Adept.

    The DM waived +2 LA for all PCs to allow for unusual races and/or templates, so with the 2 RHD I was still 3 class levels behind the other PCs. Apart from some very minor fire damage and debuffing thanks to Entangling Exhalation, he was not particularly useful in combat (though he did manage to sleep-poison-sting an enemy arcane caster once). He also had the Mindsight feat, so he was an okay scout and watch dog dragon.

    But goodness me, was it a fun character to roleplay! It was exactly awesome as you would expect a flying, fire-breathing cat-lizard with a penchant for shiny things, delusions of grandeur, and some mild pyromania would be.

  30. - Top - End - #60
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    Default Re: Your favorite unplayable character option?

    Quote Originally Posted by SimonMoon6 View Post
    For me, it's Master of Many Forms. And before someone says that MoMF isn't unplayable, I accept that for some people, it is perfectly playable. However, I just can't see giving up phenomenal cosmic power (spell-casting) just to change shapes a bit better than a normal druid.

    And that's one of the things I really have an issue with in the various D&D games. I'd like to have a character who specializes in shape-changing, but why bother when you can have a character who is good at shape-changing *and* also has full spell-casting?

    On the flip side, on the "so good it's unplayable," I would add Planar Shepherd. There's no way that I could ever even ask a DM to let me play one. They're just way too good. But I want a class that gives me the power to turn into, say, a demon (and not just for cosmetic reasons... for actual power-gain reasons... and not with wimpy power gains like, say, Acolyte of the Skin). Planar Shepherd would be a great class for that... but it does too much other good stuff, without taking away any of a druid's normal powers.
    For me, the best entry into MoMF is actually wildshaping ranger. You get full bab, d10 HD, and more skills for the first 5 levels, as well as whatever ACFs of ranger you end up taking, and the downsides of ranger wildshaping are completely rendered moot by entering MoMF, because it overrides the limitations.

    That way you also don't have to feel like you're giving up spellcasting, because as a ranger you practically had no spellcasting to begin with, and if you take one of the spell-less variants, you literally had none anyway.
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    Playing a wizard the way GitP says wizards should be played requires the equivalent time and effort investment of a university minor. Do you really want to go down this rabbit hole, or are you comfortable with just throwing a souped-up Orb of Fire at the thing?
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